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Bush 'disappointed' by NATO
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Sealobo
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Feb 11, 2003, 12:10 AM
 
"President Bush pronounced himself disappointed after France, Germany and Belgium blocked a U.S.-led effort to begin planning to defend Turkey in the event of a war with Iraq. "I think it affects the alliance in a negative way when you're not able to make a statement of mutual defense," Bush said."

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Bush is getting shameless.
     
The Mick
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Feb 11, 2003, 12:40 AM
 
Well good for France, Germany and Belgium. It's bad enough we're going to invade and occupy a foreign nation, why should we also be tasked with defending that same country's neighbors from the inevitable counterstrike? Where will it end? If the US is going to attack Iraq then f*cking do it! I'm sick of hearing about it, I'm sick of reading about it, and most of all, I'm sick of all the international bullcrap. We'll never get the full blessings of NATO and the UN. Just bomb the Iraqis already...

I'm not going to call an ambulance this time because then you won't learn anything.
     
Spliffdaddy
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Feb 11, 2003, 12:45 AM
 
Yeah.

The sooner the better.
     
Nimisys
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Feb 11, 2003, 12:46 AM
 
if i was turkey i would be pretty pissed with germany, france, belgium.
     
macvillage.net
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Feb 11, 2003, 12:49 AM
 
Originally posted by Nimisys:
if i was turkey i would be pretty pissed with germany, france, belgium.
If I were turkey, I would be pissed to be named after a bird... one that Americans make a holiday to kill over.
     
Cipher13
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Feb 11, 2003, 12:53 AM
 
macvillage: lmao

I heard on the news yesterday.

"NATO blah blah disarray blah blah after France, Belgium and Germany stated blah blah blah. However, Australia and the United States remain loyal" or some absolute bullshit which would give the impression that we're the good guys in this.

It wasn't worded exactly like that, obviously, but that was the impression it gave.

Pissed me off.
     
NeoMac
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Feb 11, 2003, 02:24 AM
 
This whole thing is wildly over-blown by the news media. The news has become like soap operas. Ever notice the tone of voice reporters use? These people think they're some god's gift to the world.

The U.S. is going to take down Saddam and liberate Iraq. Everyone is going get in a hissy fit for about two weeks, then everyone will start patting each other on the back. The French will call us lazy, arrogant fools. And the French will be called stuck-up, conceded swine. How has this been different than the last 300 years? Next thing you know they're all meeting at the G8 conference having Champage and lobster.

This is really nothing new. I mean really, German's are pacifists is news all of a sudden?! Hello, where has the press been the last 50 years.

IMO, modern "journalism" is the biggest threat to democracy ever. They're just way out of line ... but that's a whole different thread...

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undotwa
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Feb 11, 2003, 02:26 AM
 
Originally posted by macvillage.net:
If I were turkey, I would be pissed to be named after a bird... one that Americans make a holiday to kill over.
What I heard was that the bird was named after Turkey, you see the explorer people thought they were in Turkey so they named the bird turkey and the name stuck...

anyway
In vino veritas.
     
rampant
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Feb 11, 2003, 02:52 AM
 
Liberate Iraq? Liberate the civilians from what? Their pesky kids, their homes, their belongings, their lives? I don't know what kind of world you're living in, but the US only does civilian casualties, and Jiffy-puppet-regime changes. Nothing else.
     
Sealobo  (op)
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Feb 11, 2003, 03:30 AM
 
Originally posted by NeoMac:
...The U.S. is going to take down Saddam and liberate Iraq...


Have you ever watched any recent interview of the Iraqi people? Having lived in the north america for quite a while, i know for fact that the CNN ain't no going to show it.

Basically, The Iraqi people don't want war. They don't hate the americans, what they hated is the US government. They told the foreign reporters that they know the US army is coming for their oil.

These words ain't told by politians of Iraq, they are just ordinary men, women and children you can find on the street in Iraq.

Fcuk CNN for not showing this side of the story.
     
itai195
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Feb 11, 2003, 04:21 AM
 
Originally posted by rampant:
Liberate Iraq? Liberate the civilians from what? Their pesky kids, their homes, their belongings, their lives? I don't know what kind of world you're living in, but the US only does civilian casualties, and Jiffy-puppet-regime changes. Nothing else.
See: Japan, Germany, South Korea, Afghanistan. The US has had failures, but it's a bold-faced lie to claim that the US has only had failures.

Originally posted by sealoboHave you ever watched any recent interview of the Iraqi people? Having lived in the north america for quite a while, i know for fact that the CNN ain't no going to show it.
Just as we Americans are apparently brainwashed by our media, those Iraqis are by their media. I agree CNN could give a more balanced perspective, but I also question the worth of interviews of Iraqi citizens, considering they are often (always?) accompanied by government minders.
     
Sealobo  (op)
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Feb 11, 2003, 04:27 AM
 
Originally posted by itai195:
Just as we Americans are apparently brainwashed by our media, those Iraqis are by their media. I agree CNN could give a more balanced perspective, but I also question the worth of interviews of Iraqi citizens, considering they are often (always?) accompanied by government minders.
No, We have a reporter team (I am from Hong Kong) headed to Iraq and they did quite a lot of interviews with the Iraqi people without being monitored by any government official from any country.

I seriously feel sorry for these innocent people.

     
itai195
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Feb 11, 2003, 04:29 AM
 
Really? Did they actually say they did them without being monitored, or is it assumed?
     
Sealobo  (op)
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Feb 11, 2003, 04:35 AM
 
Originally posted by itai195:
Really? Did they actually say they did them without being monitored, or is it assumed?
Yes.

They went into some area which they're "accompanied" by some Iraqi officials. Those places are like the embassy area and such.

But when they went to public places like a food market for interview, there was no monitoring whatsoever.

There is no point for us to be bias anyway, i mean, Hong Kong is not really affected and we are not "asked" by any country to support or against the war... *cough cough*... i mean the invasion by the US.
     
undotwa
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Feb 11, 2003, 06:06 AM
 
Iraqi civilians live under fear. They fear if they say something against there government they will be tortured to death. I take interviews, whether it's supporting america's side, or Iraqi's sides with a grain of salt. They mean nothing.
In vino veritas.
     
Sealobo  (op)
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Feb 11, 2003, 06:45 AM
 
Originally posted by undotwa:
Iraqi civilians live under fear. They fear if they say something against there government they will be tortured to death. I take interviews, whether it's supporting america's side, or Iraqi's sides with a grain of salt. They mean nothing.
Say something against their government? like what? like, "Yeah we want the US to come after our country so that we don't need to travel all the way to the north america to kick some american arse. Yeah, we want war, come get some"?

You're right, they live in fear now, i can tell even by looking through their eyes on TV. If you lived in a poor country, and the most powerful nation in the world is having its barrels pointing against you, your country, women and children, i guess you would be in fear too.

The ultimate truth is, Iraq would have been a more peaceful place if this country has no oil at all.
     
Sealobo  (op)
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Feb 11, 2003, 06:59 AM
 
Any American who thinks that the US government is trying to battle terrorism is either dumb of heavily brainwashed.

Bush used the 9-11 event as a heart-breaking reminder as an excuse to invade Iraq, labeled it as a "war against terrorism".

How many of those who hi-jacked the planes in the 9-11 event were Iraqis? Zero.

Why do the US government and the media stopped talking about Osama all of a sudden? Because the US media doesn't want to remind people that he's not an Iraqis?

     
Cipher13
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Feb 11, 2003, 07:08 AM
 
Originally posted by undotwa:
Iraqi civilians live under fear. They fear if they say something against there government they will be tortured to death. I take interviews, whether it's supporting america's side, or Iraqi's sides with a grain of salt. They mean nothing.
**** ***** ********** ****** ****!

My God.

ARE YOU AN IRAQI CITIZEN?

NO? STFU.
     
itai195
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Feb 11, 2003, 08:14 AM
 
Originally posted by sealobo:
How many of those who hi-jacked the planes in the 9-11 event were Iraqis? Zero.
How many people who attacked Pearl Harbor were German?
     
Sealobo  (op)
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Feb 11, 2003, 08:29 AM
 
Originally posted by itai195:
How many people who attacked Pearl Harbor were German?
It was different. Germany allied with Japan in WWII.

Anyway, one always needs an excuse to do something in case to be politically correct.
     
Joshua
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Feb 11, 2003, 09:41 AM
 
Originally posted by sealobo:


Have you ever watched any recent interview of the Iraqi people? Having lived in the north america for quite a while, i know for fact that the CNN ain't no going to show it.

Basically, The Iraqi people don't want war. They don't hate the americans, what they hated is the US government. They told the foreign reporters that they know the US army is coming for their oil.

These words ain't told by politians of Iraq, they are just ordinary men, women and children you can find on the street in Iraq.

Fcuk CNN for not showing this side of the story.
One in Six Iraqis are in exile, and they want this war.

A particularly salient passage from that article:

No doubt there are some abroad who support Saddam, others who are neutral and others who want to see him go but do not think an American war is the way to do it. But what the majority think, in the words of one careful student of Iraqi opinion, is that "military action is the price that has to be paid for the removal of the regime, and this is also the view of most Iraqis in the country".
Fvck CNN for not showing this side of the story.
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SimeyTheLimey
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Feb 11, 2003, 09:49 AM
 
Originally posted by Joshua:
Fvck CNN for not showing this side of the story.
You should point out where that article came from. Lefties won't read a challenging article like that until you tell them it was from the Guardian.
     
yakkiebah
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Feb 11, 2003, 09:52 AM
 
Originally posted by Joshua:
Fvck CNN for not showing this side of the story.
actually CNN did show that, and not only CNN...
     
davesimondotcom
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Feb 11, 2003, 10:06 AM
 
Originally posted by sealobo:
Bush is getting shameless.
Yeah, shame on the guy for being disappointed with the wimps who won't even bother to support PROTECTING an ally.

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davesimondotcom
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Feb 11, 2003, 10:08 AM
 
Originally posted by sealobo:
I seriously feel sorry for these innocent people.

I feel sorry for them too. Which is why I am in favor of liberating them from an evil dictator.
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davesimondotcom
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Feb 11, 2003, 10:13 AM
 
Originally posted by sealobo:
Any American who thinks that the US government is trying to battle terrorism is either dumb of heavily brainwashed.
So are you implying that the US government is somehow SUPPORTING terrorism?

Thanks for calling me dumb and/or brainwashed. You just have got to love people who can't accept that other people have other opinions without them being brainwashed.

Originally posted by sealobo:
Bush used the 9-11 event as a heart-breaking reminder as an excuse to invade Iraq, labeled it as a "war against terrorism".
Uh, have you noticed whether there has actually BEEN an attack on Iraq?

Originally posted by sealobo:
How many of those who hi-jacked the planes in the 9-11 event were Iraqis? Zero.
What was the only nation in the world to officially speak in favor of the actions of the 9/11 terrorists? Iraq.

Originally posted by sealobo:
Why do the US government and the media stopped talking about Osama all of a sudden? Because the US media doesn't want to remind people that he's not an Iraqis?
No, he's technically a Saudi, but I think he probably would claim any nation that would protect him.

Have you thought about the possibility that Usama Bin Laden is no longer a top priority in public because he's probably dead?
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Feb 11, 2003, 10:16 AM
 
The US will end up with egg on it's face before this thing is truly through. Afghanistan is still not over.
e-gads
     
SimeyTheLimey
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Feb 11, 2003, 10:20 AM
 
Originally posted by davesimondotcom:
No, he's technically a Saudi, but I think he probably would claim any nation that would protect him.
I think actually Saudi Arabia stripped Bin Laden of his Saudi citizenship some years ago. But that's probably moot anyway. Given his dramatic silence in contrast to his publicity hound past, I think the liklihood is the US has stripped him of his existence.
     
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Feb 11, 2003, 10:20 AM
 
Originally posted by gadster:
The US will end up with egg on it's face before this thing is truly through. Afghanistan is still not over.
egg on my face I can live with. Blood in Manhattan I can't.
     
davesimondotcom
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Feb 11, 2003, 10:24 AM
 
Originally posted by gadster:
The US will end up with egg on it's face before this thing is truly through. Afghanistan is still not over.
More than likely we'd use any such eggs to make French Toast, Belgian Waffles and a side of German Sausage.

Don't ask me what that means, it just sounded good.
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Feb 11, 2003, 10:31 AM
 
Originally posted by gadster:
Afghanistan is still not over.
It was German soldiers in Afghanistan and the German defence minister that have been attacked by a rocket just yesterday! So I don't understand why you can claim Germany is not helping in the fight against terrorism, when these men actually do so with risking their lifes.
It's that the German population doesn't see how a war against Iraq does anything good for fighting against terrorism.
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Feb 11, 2003, 10:31 AM
 
I think it would be in the best interest of the US to pull out of the middle east (minus our military bases)

Let Iraq invade whoever they want and let them develop whatever weapons they want...

When they finally have nukes/chemical weapons and a delivery method... when countries cry out for help against them, we should just turn our back and say "it's not our problem"...

Hell, we should just buy our oil from Saddam like the French and German governments...

When the US starts doing such activities, that's when the world should get scared!
     
Sealobo  (op)
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Feb 11, 2003, 10:45 AM
 
Originally posted by davesimondotcom:
So are you implying that the US government is somehow SUPPORTING terrorism?
I was not implying anything. I was saying that US is not battling teorrism by invading Iraq.


Thanks for calling me dumb and/or brainwashed. You just have got to love people who can't accept that other people have other opinions without them being brainwashed.
Yes you're brainwashed. I feel sorry for you. I can accept different opinion, but i can not accept people doing what they think is right simply because they're misleaded.


Uh, have you noticed whether there has actually BEEN an attack on Iraq?
What's the point of this question? I tell you what, this is going to get so ugly no matter how it is going to end. So far the US has put so much time and resources into military logistic and such, I am pretty sure that they will not go back empty-handed. According to the current situation, they will not have an excuse good enough to start a "war.


What was the only nation in the world to officially speak in favor of the actions of the 9/11 terrorists? Iraq.
So what? Does it make Iraq a county full of terrorists? Or now you can't accept a different opinion? The truth is, the US isn't that popular around the world. Although many innocent people died in the event, you can expect some people were actually happy about it.

By the way, i was in Toronto watching CNN when the 9-11 event happened, it was sad and horrible. Just to stat this out so that you wouldn't assume that i am trying to imply anything in the above paragraph.
     
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Feb 11, 2003, 10:45 AM
 
Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
Hell, we should just buy our oil from Saddam like the French and German governments...
Let's get the facts straigt on this:

1) You are a moron.
2) The French and German government doesn't buy oil. The French and German people get their oil from oil companies that are in private property as almost anywhere else. These two countries do not have a socialist planned economy.
3) These oil companies get oil legally from Iraq from the oil for food program.
4) Iraq smuggels additional oil out if its borders. This oil is bought by oil companies that are as well French as British, American, or Russian.
5) The French/German proposal includes means to prevent smuggling of oil out of Iraq. That proves that these two countries are not interested in this illegal oil.
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Feb 11, 2003, 10:46 AM
 
Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
egg on my face I can live with. Blood in Manhattan I can't.
I was alluding to the longer term geopolitical implications. To avoid embaressment, the US have to finish the Iraq job within 2 weeks and install Ronald McDonald as head of government within 2 months.

Then they need nice footage of Iraqis cheering and wrapping themselves in the stars and stripes (could make a nice burkah for the religious types, I guess) pronto.

If all the footage is of cranky amputee Iraqis, we won't get to see much of it.

I guess if Iraq fails as Afghanistan is failing, there is always North Korea. After that? I guess that will be a problem for the Democrats to solve. And raise taxes to pay for.
e-gads
     
Sealobo  (op)
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Feb 11, 2003, 10:57 AM
 
Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
I think it would be in the best interest of the US to pull out of the middle east (minus our military bases)

Let Iraq invade whoever they want and let them develop whatever weapons they want...

When they finally have nukes/chemical weapons and a delivery method... when countries cry out for help against them, we should just turn our back and say "it's not our problem"...

Hell, we should just buy our oil from Saddam like the French and German governments...

When the US starts doing such activities, that's when the world should get scared!
Although Bush is shameless, he is doing the right thing for his own people, and for the best interest of the US in the long run. By getting Iraq, Bush can reach multiple goals. For example, the oil, the external stability for the US economy, military allocation west of China etc.

Bush is doing something wrong, but he ain't doing something bad. It's different. Good that he isn't as dumb as you.
     
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Feb 11, 2003, 10:57 AM
 
Originally posted by gadster:
I guess if Iraq fails as Afghanistan is failing,
Gloomy pessimism never achieved anything but excuses not to try. Did you really, really, think that Afghanistan would turn into Lichtenstein overnight? There are going to be foreign troops there for decades. It's going to be a long, hard struggle and declaring failure after less than 14 months is ridiculous. Come back in 20 years and then we can talk.

Iraq will also be a long term project. But they are more advanced than Afghanistan. It is still tribal, and split into three broad segments, but they have more of a tradition of being a unitary state with better developed infrastructure. They also have considerably more assets to build a nation with. Iraq has exportable oil, a more educated population, and a large, relatively wealthy, and well-educated expatriate population that is roughly one sixth the size of the entire Iraqi population. Having the US as an ally is not an insignificant asset as well. All of these things, and the ending of Iraq's international pariah status as well as its internal police state apparatus, bode well for Iraq. It could hardly make things worse.
     
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Feb 11, 2003, 11:00 AM
 
Originally posted by sealobo:
I was not implying anything. I was saying that US is not battling teorrism by invading Iraq.
So, are you then saying that if a clear link between terror and Iraq can be shown that you'd be in favor of an attack?

Originally posted by sealobo:
Yes you're brainwashed. I feel sorry for you. I can accept different opinion, but i can not accept people doing what they think is right simply because they're misleaded.
I am neither mislead nor brainwashed. I think for myself. I educate myself through many different news sources. I have come to the conclusion that I am not convinced by the drag-your-feet-send-more-inspectors-peace -at-all-costs crowd.

You disagree with me. That is your right. But I'm not going to insult you personally.


Originally posted by sealobo:
What's the point of this question? I tell you what, this is going to get so ugly no matter how it is going to end. So far the US has put so much time and resources into military logistic and such, I am pretty sure that they will not go back empty-handed. According to the current situation, they will not have an excuse good enough to start a "war.
Did you see Colin Powell's presentation? Do you really think more inspectors is the solution?

As far as going back "empty handed" - this is one of those unfounded accusations that people like you like to make. The US did a whole lot of preparation for D-Day too. But did we take occupation of France? Nope, just helped to liberate it.


Originally posted by sealobo:
So what? Does it make Iraq a county full of terrorists? Or now you can't accept a different opinion? The truth is, the US isn't that popular around the world. Although many innocent people died in the event, you can expect some people were actually happy about it.
I don't agree with many people. There are quite a few that I don't like. But to hide behind a dislike of the US government and say that it's ok to cheer the deaths of 3000 (non-combatant) people is just sick.

Foreign policy isn't a popularity contest.

Originally posted by sealobo:
By the way, i was in Toronto watching CNN when the 9-11 event happened, it was sad and horrible. Just to stat this out so that you wouldn't assume that i am trying to imply anything in the above paragraph.
Oh, so after the "the US is disliked so they deserved it" paragraph, here is the predictible "but I thought 9/11 was really bad" disclaimer.
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davesimondotcom
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Feb 11, 2003, 11:04 AM
 
Originally posted by sealobo:
Although Bush is shameless, he is doing the right thing for his own people, and for the best interest of the US in the long run. By getting Iraq, Bush can reach multiple goals. For example, the oil, the external stability for the US economy, military allocation west of China etc.
OK, I'm going to state this plain and clear for you. The United States will not take Iraqi oil.

If oil was a goal, we could have just said to Kuwait 12 years ago, "OK, we liberated you, now you owe us free oil." We didn't.

We spent MILLIONS of dollars helping to put out the huge fires that Saddam set.

We BUY oil. Just like France. Just like Germany. Just like every other country in the world.

I would like to actually see proof from all of these, "No blood for oil" people that oil is a motive. They have none.
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Feb 11, 2003, 11:09 AM
 
Originally posted by davesimondotcom:
So are you implying that the US government is somehow SUPPORTING terrorism?
not "supporting"

davesimondotcom, I honestly really think that a war against iraq would make terrorism growing; and this is what scares me.

Islamist terrorists are waiting for this war impatiently.
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Feb 11, 2003, 11:15 AM
 
Originally posted by noliv:
not "supporting"

davesimondotcom, I honestly really think that a war against iraq would make terrorism growing; and this is what scares me.

Islamist terrorists are waiting for this war impatiently.
Why would a war in Iraq make terrorism grow? After all, Saddam has NOTHING to do with terrorism. There is NO LINK.

Yeah right.
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Feb 11, 2003, 11:23 AM
 
Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
Gloomy pessimism never achieved anything but excuses not to try. Did you really, really, think that Afghanistan would turn into Lichtenstein overnight? There are going to be foreign troops there for decades. It's going to be a long, hard struggle and declaring failure after less than 14 months is ridiculous. Come back in 20 years and then we can talk.

Iraq will also be a long term project. But they are more advanced than Afghanistan. It is still tribal, and split into three broad segments, but they have more of a tradition of being a unitary state with better developed infrastructure. They also have considerably more assets to build a nation with. Iraq has exportable oil, a more educated population, and a large, relatively wealthy, and well-educated expatriate population that is roughly one sixth the size of the entire Iraqi population. Having the US as an ally is not an insignificant asset as well. All of these things, and the ending of Iraq's international pariah status as well as its internal police state apparatus, bode well for Iraq. It could hardly make things worse.
I don't understand your first sentence. I think it is missing a noun or something, Sorry.

I always thought it was going to be a difficult job to stabilise Afghanistan, I really hope the US has more luck than the USSR did.

Your assertion that I am declaring the US Afghanistan policy a failure is inaccurate. I said it 'is failing', which implies it has not failed, yet.

I hope you are right in your assessment of the outcome of America's 'pre-emptive' strike on Iraq. We shall see how it goes down, in due course, I guess.
e-gads
     
Sealobo  (op)
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Feb 11, 2003, 11:30 AM
 
Originally posted by davesimondotcom:
So, are you then saying that if a clear link between terror and Iraq can be shown that you'd be in favor of an attack?
Yeah, why not?


I am neither mislead nor brainwashed. I think for myself. I educate myself through many different news sources. I have come to the conclusion that I am not convinced by the drag-your-feet-send-more-inspectors-peace -at-all-costs crowd.
You can never get a good view of the issue if your country is part of it my friend. Yes you think for yourself, but base on the information you can actually get. CNN wouldn't choose to report the stuff that the US people wouldn't want to watch.


Did you see Colin Powell's presentation? Do you really think more inspectors is the solution?


Yes i saw it live, the whole thing. At best he seems to proved that Iraq is hiding something. However, the so-called WMD that Iraq is hiding is just a way to draw support for a war. The US talked about the WMD like they're so sure that Iraq will use it to attack them.

Terrorist + Weapon of Mass Destruction =

Sounds like a good way to promote a war againt Iraq yeah?


As far as going back "empty handed" - this is one of those unfounded accusations that people like you like to make. The US did a whole lot of preparation for D-Day too. But did we take occupation of France? Nope, just helped to liberate it.


You would actually belive that the US is doing all these for the interest of non-americans???

Holy shxt... you should ask the US government to pay off its multi-trillion debt to various countries around the world.

It's all about leverages and goodies man... don't be so damn naive.

I don't agree with many people. There are quite a few that I don't like. But to hide behind a dislike of the US government and say that it's ok to cheer the deaths of 3000 (non-combatant) people is just sick.


Yeah it's sick, but it's true.


Foreign policy isn't a popularity contest.


Yup, that's why the US is doing what it's doing, which is to invade Iraq.


Oh, so after the "the US is disliked so they deserved it" paragraph, here is the predictible "but I thought 9/11 was really bad" disclaimer.
Don't put that one on me, i was just trying explain the fact that some people were actually happy about the 9-11 event, and i was not one of them. Don't make up something and frame me like how the US is trying to frame Iraq. That's just lame.
( Last edited by Sealobo; Feb 11, 2003 at 11:40 AM. )
     
Sealobo  (op)
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Feb 11, 2003, 11:33 AM
 
Originally posted by davesimondotcom:
OK, I'm going to state this plain and clear for you. The United States will not take Iraqi oil.

If oil was a goal, we could have just said to Kuwait 12 years ago, "OK, we liberated you, now you owe us free oil." We didn't.

We spent MILLIONS of dollars helping to put out the huge fires that Saddam set.

We BUY oil. Just like France. Just like Germany. Just like every other country in the world.

I would like to actually see proof from all of these, "No blood for oil" people that oil is a motive. They have none.
Bush was not the president by then was he???

Do you know what does he control in the private sector?

Please do some research, you might be surprised.
     
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Feb 11, 2003, 11:37 AM
 
Originally posted by sealobo:
Holy shxt... you should ask the US government to pay off its multi-trillion debt to various countries around the world.
Ha ha! They would hate it if we did. Creditors loathe early repayment. It cuts short the expected interest income that is the whole point of the transaction from their point of view. The US is in no danger of default and the payments come in on time. Creditors are therefore happy.

Besides, while I don't have the statistics handy, I believe that most US public debt is owned by private creditors in the US, not foreigners.
     
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Feb 11, 2003, 11:43 AM
 
Originally posted by sealobo:
Bush was not the president by then was he???
Well, you might recall that his father was.

Originally posted by sealobo:
Do you know what does he control in the private sector?
Both he and Dick Cheyney sold their interests before running for office. And they were blasted by Democrats for making money off of it.

Originally posted by sealobo:
Please do some research, you might be surprised.
Maybe YOU should do some research. Show me the proof. I accept links from legitimate news sources.

Typical of the anti-Bush crowd. When it's convenient, it's a war to avenge his father's failure. But when it's inconvenient, they forget his father was President while he was actually IN the oil business.

When it's convenient, Bush and Cheney have oil interests. When they sell their interests, they are attacked for making money off of it.

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Feb 11, 2003, 11:44 AM
 
Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
Besides, while I don't have the statistics handy, I believe that most US public debt is owned by private creditors in the US, not foreigners.
And Simey is right again.

Just because the US is in debt, doesn't mean that it is in debt to foreign countries governments.

Only EVIL PRIVATE CORPORATIONS! BWAHHHAHAHAHAAHAH!
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Sealobo  (op)
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Feb 11, 2003, 11:46 AM
 
Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
Ha ha! They would hate it if we did. Creditors loathe early repayment. It cuts short the expected interest income that is the whole point of the transaction from their point of view. The US is in no danger of default and the payments come in on time. Creditors are therefore happy...
Your statement is completely valid, given that those debt will actually be paid off

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/
     
Sealobo  (op)
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Feb 11, 2003, 11:54 AM
 
Originally posted by davesimondotcom:
Both he and Dick Cheyney sold their interests before running for office. And they were blasted by Democrats for making money off of it.

Maybe YOU should do some research. Show me the proof. I accept links from legitimate news sources.

Typical of the anti-Bush crowd. When it's convenient, it's a war to avenge his father's failure. But when it's inconvenient, they forget his father was President while he was actually IN the oil business.

When it's convenient, Bush and Cheney have oil interests. When they sell their interests, they are attacked for making money off of it.

OK, if you actually believe that he no longer has interest in no oil businesses whatsoever, then I think i should stop right here. We simply have different point of view.

Obviously you wouldn't make a very successful business person though. Bush will not be the president of the USA forever, his life will not end right after his presidency. Go figure.
     
SimeyTheLimey
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Feb 11, 2003, 11:55 AM
 
Originally posted by sealobo:
Your statement is completely valid, given that those debt will actually be paid off
Again, that is money that is mostly owed to private domestic creditors by the government. It therefore never really leaves the economy. It just circulates from government, to private entities, and then back to the government in the form of taxes.

Besides, $20,000? Pfft! I can only dream of having a private debt load so low!
     
 
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