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wANCO tHE sANE · Mar 28, 2003, 12:02 AM

I tried doing a search about this topic but it seems no one has discussed it. But is there a theme out for X that's like cel shaded type? like a theme to go with the "Smooth icon" icon set? if this has discussed, eh, sorry...

fireside · Mar 28, 2003, 12:19 AM

that would be cool looking if someone did it right. i was playing wind waker and i was thinking that it would be cool if someone made a theme using the buttons and stuff from the menus and stuff

ARENA · Mar 28, 2003, 12:39 AM

I second this idea, something in the line of the smooth icons set or the bluecurve icons would really rock.

wANCO tHE sANE · Mar 28, 2003, 01:10 AM

yeah, it would be cool. i came up with this idea while i was playing autmodellista... extremely cool game! it would rock if the whole gui was cel shaded.

Fluid · Mar 28, 2003, 02:16 AM

Why don't you guys post some screens so themers can get an idea of what to do?

bbxstudio · Mar 28, 2003, 02:28 AM

Originally posted by fireside:
that would be cool looking if someone did it right. i was playing wind waker and i was thinking that it would be cool if someone made a theme using the buttons and stuff from the menus and stuff

Woot! Isn't Zelda on the high seas fun?!

The blowing volcanic embers and waves of atmospheric heat distortion on DragonPeak island sure are pretty.

Another great-looking cell-shaded game is JetSetRadioFuture on Xbox... very stylish and futuristic. I'm also very excited about the cell-shaded first-person shooter called 'XIII' coming out soon for Xbox.

wANCO tHE sANE · Mar 28, 2003, 02:33 AM

Originally posted by Fluid:
Why don't you guys post some screens so themers can get an idea of what to do?

hmm... well, if ir emember and have the time, i'll try an ddo something... but that's most liekly not gonan happen though. t he closest cell shaded theme is milk.. if you cvhoose the graphite version, the buttons are shaded in 2 different colors (the ones that close, minimize, and max the window). i thought that was cool and liek the thing be used to make a different new theme... but if anyone here has the time, it would be rockin if they made a little mockup screen.

*edit: too lazy to correct misspellings..

fireside · Mar 28, 2003, 03:22 AM

Originally posted by bbxstudio:
Woot! Isn't Zelda on the high seas fun?! :) The blowing volcanic embers and waves of atmospheric heat distortion on DragonPeak island sure are pretty.

yes, zelda definatly does rock. and the animations and link's face rocks. when he smiles i just cant help but smile cause its so cute :)

codywalton · Mar 28, 2003, 09:35 AM

i think we need a "Wind Waker" theme.... the sub-menu's on there are really well designed.

bOOzo · Mar 28, 2003, 09:59 AM

Originally posted by codywalton:
i think we need a "Wind Waker" theme.... the sub-menu's on there are really well designed.

Post some screenshots! I've never played WW, it's not released in Sweden..

Mac Guru · Mar 28, 2003, 11:42 AM

IGN WW Media Page...

I hope that link works but if not a quick Googlee Search for Wind Waker will get you what you need.

Mac Guru

angelmb · Mar 28, 2003, 04:17 PM

GREAT IDEA !!!!, Wind Waker has a look really awesome.

NetworkShadow · Mar 28, 2003, 04:38 PM

No not Zelda...
Zone of The Enders 2 is the best! http://www.konamijpn.com/products/zo.../download.html

Or Jet Set Radio (the first cellshaded game) http://membres.lycos.fr/radiojetset/image.htm or the 2nd one is really good too http://www.jsrf.com/

Zelda is too bright, talk about burn out your eyes looking at it! lol

OptimusG4 · Mar 28, 2003, 04:38 PM

Or even go to www.zelda.com for a preview of the look.

NetworkShadow · Mar 28, 2003, 04:45 PM

Better ZOE 2 screens: http://www.gamers.com/game/1160923/media ^^

intastella · Mar 28, 2003, 10:35 PM

I've never played ZOE or JSRF, but by looking at the screenshots, Zelda gets it the most right. The other two still look 3D, just with 2D textures.

And too bright! That's the dumbest reason I've heard IMO not to play one of the best games out there.

Don

phillryu · Mar 28, 2003, 11:59 PM

ZOE2, as the person above said, looks 3D. I glanced at a couple screenshots and didn't even notice the cel shading. Zelda, however, captures it perfectly. The simplicity of some of the graphics and animation really shocks you if you look carefully, because the effect is so incredibly, realistic. Yes, it's a cartoon, but it's the most detailed video game I've ever played. Nintendo took cel-shading, and took it to the next level.

Anyhow, when I think of a windwaker based theme, I am thinking of window title bars that are different shades of blue, with very stylistic white wave designs on them. I haven't taken a serious look at the sub menus in the game yet though.. I'll check that out later.

P.S., for those of you who own the game... do you grow up later in the game? Or remain young link? And is Zelda in the game at all?

NetworkShadow · Mar 29, 2003, 12:20 AM

You guys need to play the game... O_o'

angelmb · Mar 29, 2003, 04:16 AM

Originally posted by phillryu:
And is Zelda in the game at all?

Waiting for the game, but sure Zelda is, a Nintendo Ad:

OptimusG4 · Mar 29, 2003, 04:33 AM

Yea she has a brief appearance in the game.

bbxstudio · Mar 29, 2003, 03:31 PM

Originally posted by phillryu:
P.S., for those of you who own the game... do you grow up later in the game? Or remain young link? And is Zelda in the game at all? [/B]

You never grow up in this one. While I do love what they've done with the graphics and find the game absolutely incredible (you have no idea just how cool cruising the high seas for adventure is if you haven't played this one), I do kind of miss the old Zelda style - Zelda has always had a certain 'look' to the characters and beings, something that could have been adapted to cell-shading but was instead redesigned for this game... essentially, it's like reading a cherished book from your childhood, but this time done by a different illustrator. I like the cell-shading approach, I just miss the original 'styling' if that makes any sense.

By biggest beef if terms of gameplay is the fact that it's just too easy - I don't mind dying once in a while (in fact, the danger of dying is a major part of the thrill of fighting monsters), but there just seems to be no danger in this one really (and as soon as you lose a heart, bang one shows up) - even the bosses have been incredibly easy to figure out and beat. I'm afraid it'll be over too soon... past Zelda games have taken the wife and I (we always play together taking turns with the controller) weeks and even months to complete.

Another thing I miss is the Zoras - what the heck, a huge ocean world and no undersea/underwater adventuring? I just hope I run into a Goron somewhere... I just love that Rasta/potatorock thing. The story leaves you with the impression that this is the world of Hyrule many hundreds or thousands of years after the N64 adventures... it seems bizarre to me that the Zora's are extinct after a global rise in sea level - you'd think they'd be flourishing. Ah, the mysteries

SwarmyCurve · Mar 29, 2003, 07:25 PM

I just picked up Zone of the Enders 2nd Runner today, and it is amazing! If you want a game that is just dripping in appealing art direction and character design, look no furthur. I've never seen a playstation2 game look this good.

The use of cel shading is subtle, but adds a nice touch. Explosions are cell shaded, and the orbital frames (mechs) seem to have a very slight amount of the effect.

It reminds me of Panzer Dragoon Orta, since they have a similar look about them and they are both action shooters.

Brien · 08:24 PM

Originally posted by bbxstudio:
Another thing I miss is the Zoras.

The Earth Temple sage is a zora.

I just hope I run into a Goron somewhere... I just love that Rasta/potatorock thing.

The traveling merchants you run into later in the game are gorons.

Oh, btw, Zelda in the game from the beginning (can't say more or I'll ruin the surprise - PM me for plot spoilers) and Wind Waker takes place about 200 to 300 years after Ocarina.

NetworkShadow · Mar 30, 2003, 12:33 AM

Originally posted by SwarmyCurve:
I just picked up Zone of the Enders 2nd Runner today, and it is amazing! If you want a game that is just dripping in appealing art direction and character design, look no furthur. I've never seen a playstation2 game look this good.

The use of cel shading is subtle, but adds a nice touch. Explosions are cell shaded, and the orbital frames (mechs) seem to have a very slight amount of the effect.

It reminds me of Panzer Dragoon Orta, since they have a similar look about them and they are both action shooters.

Glad you got ZOE 2. Hay I also have all the PanzerDragoon games, (some of my favorite games ever).

Sorry guys but I'd never use a theme that looks like Zelda... You'd really have to pull somthing really cool off to get me to ever think about it.

SwarmyCurve · Mar 30, 2003, 01:30 AM

I wouldn't really like a zelda theme either. I'm not even sure what a cel-shaded theme would look like...? The concept probably wouldn't carry over to the mac interface very well.

wANCO tHE sANE · Mar 30, 2003, 02:38 AM

well, i have the milk theme, and this is what i'm talking about:

Brien · Mar 30, 2003, 11:27 PM

As good as the idea sounds, I just don't think it's feasible (or possible) to make it look right in a 2d GUI.

NetworkShadow · Mar 31, 2003, 01:30 AM

Ya you need to have 3d graphics to give the cell shaded look. Hence the name "cell" shaded. Though you may be thinking of a bright bold and simple look more than anything.

bbxstudio · Mar 31, 2003, 02:13 AM

Originally posted by brien:
As good as the idea sounds, I just don't think it's feasible (or possible) to make it look right in a 2d GUI.

Nah, It totally is =) About the biggest hurdles you'd face is the fact that everything would be posterized but you'd still have fizzy soft shadows and outer-stroking on certain elements would be out of the question because toolbar backgrounds, etc have no resorces for sides... other than that it would be relatively easy to do a cell-shaded theme... just pick a limited set of colours and plunk them down in solid regions as opposed to blending them.

Here's a quickie I whipped up in Illustrator showing just how easy this would be to do:

Brien · Mar 31, 2003, 02:23 AM

That's actually pretty nice. Maybe it CAN be done.

bbxstudio · Mar 31, 2003, 02:23 AM

Originally posted by NetworkShadow:
Ya you need to have 3d graphics to give the cell shaded look. Hence the name "cell" shaded. Though you may be thinking of a bright bold and simple look more than anything.

No way

In 3D programs, 'cellshading' is just a rendering trick to get 3D stuff to look like a traditional 2D cartoon... saves animators from having to paint the same bloody thing a thousand times in different positions on transparent mylar (these paintings used in traditional animation are called 'cells', hence 'cell-shading'). You don't need 3D software to do it - it's been done the old-fashioned way for almost a hundred years

In fact it's the sort of project that lends itself to a vector illustration program like Illustrator more than anything else. You *could* do it in a 3D program, but what a pain in the arse that would be, so why bother - it wouldn't look any better, would take many many times longer to do and would be less flexible all around than vectors.

fireside · Mar 31, 2003, 03:21 AM

that mock up looks pretty good bbx. might i suggest making the outline of the windows a bit thicker to give it that cartoony look? like a stroke in photoshop

bbxstudio · Mar 31, 2003, 03:32 AM

Originally posted by fireside:
that mock up looks pretty good bbx. might i suggest making the outline of the windows a bit thicker to give it that cartoony look? like a stroke in photoshop

Well I'm not actually taking this anywhere or building a cell-shaded theme myself (although I may try it once I get this metal monkey off my back) - just wanted to show that it was basically possible. Personally I wouldn't get into outer strokes on window titlebars - it always looks wonky due to the fact that most toolbar/prefpane/background panels have no edges... this makes stroked titlebars look inset and out of place in OSX.

fireside · Mar 31, 2003, 03:45 AM

i dont see how it would look "inset" with a stroke. it might look inset with a drop shadow or somethin

swiz · Mar 31, 2003, 10:53 AM

Hey William better be careful, any attempt at posting imagery relating to hypothetical themes automatically generates many requests for quick development and release.

deadmole · Mar 31, 2003, 12:12 PM

I think that mock up is almost the perfect begining to what I was invisioning in my head. I feel that black outlines ruin the cel shading thing a little bit. Wind Waker really nails the cel chading on the head. Those little whirly wispy things in Zelda's menus would make PERFECT widgets. If those were made into the widgets with a very subtle shadow, it would be dreamy. But that mock up nails the colors pretty well, I think a few different color schemes could be thrown into this with ease. If my illustrator skills were top notch I'd glady help this theme along, but the best I could do is help consult on it. The green would be top choice, then a blue based for the nighttime feel that Wind Waker has. I'm getting way too excited about something that may never exist, but damn would it look sweet to open my iBook and see a Wind Waker thing going on in my face. I'd cry.

bbxstudio · Mar 31, 2003, 12:39 PM

Originally posted by fireside:
i dont see how it would look "inset" with a stroke. it might look inset with a drop shadow or somethin

Think about it, a stroke on the titlebar would sit around the inside within the confines of the Aqua titlebar region, not around the outside... the toolbar and most window backgrounds decending from the titlebar are unstrokable, so you'll end up with the illusion that these decending panels jut out 1 pixel (making the titlebar look inset). It's true

NetworkShadow · Mar 31, 2003, 12:47 PM

Originally posted by bbxstudio:
Nah, It totally is =) About the biggest hurdles you'd face is the fact that everything would be posterized but you'd still have fizzy soft shadows and outer-stroking on certain elements would be out of the question because toolbar backgrounds, etc have no resorces for sides... other than that it would be relatively easy to do a cell-shaded theme... just pick a limited set of colours and plunk them down in solid regions as opposed to blending them.

Here's a quickie I whipped up in Illustrator showing just how easy this would be to do:

Looks ok, maybe a different color would be better. I don't know if it's anything I'd ever use, but I'm glad there are some creative theme ideas going around.

codywalton · Mar 31, 2003, 06:03 PM

Originally posted by bbxstudio:
Nah, It totally is =) About the biggest hurdles you'd face is the fact that everything would be posterized but you'd still have fizzy soft shadows and outer-stroking on certain elements would be out of the question because toolbar backgrounds, etc have no resorces for sides... other than that it would be relatively easy to do a cell-shaded theme... just pick a limited set of colours and plunk them down in solid regions as opposed to blending them.

Here's a quickie I whipped up in Illustrator showing just how easy this would be to do:

That's great! I even like the colors. Multiple variations would be nice, but i like it allready.

SwarmyCurve · Mar 31, 2003, 06:18 PM

Originally posted by bbxstudio:
Nah, It totally is =) About the biggest hurdles you'd face is the fact that everything would be posterized but you'd still have fizzy soft shadows and outer-stroking on certain elements would be out of the question because toolbar backgrounds, etc have no resorces for sides... other than that it would be relatively easy to do a cell-shaded theme... just pick a limited set of colours and plunk them down in solid regions as opposed to blending them.

Here's a quickie I whipped up in Illustrator showing just how easy this would be to do:

If a quick mock-up (which I love) looks that good, I can only imagine the new "hypersleek" themes (that Mikkikarain-ish word)!

Jasoco · Mar 31, 2003, 06:42 PM

Damn.. I wish somebody would make that! I would do it.. but.. well.. I wouldn't have the talent and I don't have the game to see the rest. But I'd love to try a Theme like that! The colors are actually pleasent to look at.

Edit: The only thing in that shot that would probably not be possible as far as I know is the way the Finder's "Status bar" (The part above the white folder area in that shot) has two colors. I believe that part can only be one part. But I mat play around with this idea. Maybe I'll get it started if on one else does.

Jasoco · Mar 31, 2003, 06:59 PM

Hey.. why not?

Just a start. Haven't rounded the corners or such yet. That's all I have right now. Anyway, I may not be able to do the whole thing unless someone can make other window controls in that style for me so I can see. Or I'll turn it over so someone else to do or something.

bbxstudio · Mar 31, 2003, 07:01 PM

Originally posted by SwarmyCurve:
If a quick mock-up (which I love) looks that good, I can only imagine the new "hypersleek" themes (that Mikkikarain-ish word)!

About that, I've decided to shorten the name for the english audience to BBX | MIRAI (which means 'future' in Japanese), the Japanese characters incorporated into the logo will still say MIRAIKANE ('future-metal')... it's standard for videogames and movies to have different english and Japanese names, so why not themes?

bbxstudio · Mar 31, 2003, 07:04 PM

Originally posted by Jasoco:
The only thing in that shot that would probably not be possible as far as I know is the way the Finder's "Status bar" (The part above the white folder area in that shot) has two colors. I believe that part can only be one part.

Oh, that's actually supposed to be an unfinished row of list sort buttons, not the status bar.

Jasoco · Mar 31, 2003, 07:10 PM

Oh, ok.. Then, yes, it is possible.

Also, I think if I play with the color palette in the Theme I could make that grey line turn to dark green.
It's just a matter of finding the correct color.

bbxstudio · Mar 31, 2003, 07:17 PM

Originally posted by Jasoco:
Anyway, I may not be able to do the whole thing unless someone can make other window controls in that style for me so I can see. Or I'll turn it over so someone else to do or something.

To be honest, I think a convincing cell-shaded theme would need to be fleshed out by somebody with a good understanding as to how cell-shading works who is also capable of designing all of the different elements from scratch by themselves. Not saying you're not the guy or anything, just from what you're saying it sound like you might be unsure of yourself.

bbxstudio · Mar 31, 2003, 07:20 PM

Originally posted by Jasoco:
Oh, ok.. Then, yes, it is possible.

Also, I think if I play with the color palette in the Theme I could make that grey line turn to dark green.
It's just a matter of finding the correct color.

That might only take in Carbon applications like the finder - not sure, but I think that the line above the sort list buttons are actually incorporated into the buttons themselves (same with the line under the titlebar)... the status bar line may be driven by the colour table though.

smeger · Mar 31, 2003, 08:03 PM

Originally posted by bbxstudio:
That might only take in Carbon applications like the finder - not sure, but I think that the line above the sort list buttons are actually incorporated into the buttons themselves (same with the line under the titlebar)... the status bar line may be driven by the colour table though.

I don't know where that color is defined. But if you want to play with the color palettes, it might help to know which ones people already understand. There's a list here.

(I hope people don't mind that I'm always linking to that tutorial - it's always topical)

fireside · Mar 31, 2003, 08:26 PM

Originally posted by bbxstudio:
Think about it, a stroke on the titlebar would sit around the inside within the confines of the Aqua titlebar region, not around the outside... the toolbar and most window backgrounds decending from the titlebar are unstrokable, so you'll end up with the illusion that these decending panels jut out 1 pixel (making the titlebar look inset). It's true

could there be some way just to stroke the outside of the windows?

Jasoco · Mar 31, 2003, 08:29 PM

Originally posted by fireside:
could there be some way just to stroke the outside of the windows?

No

Starting with Jaguat, though, all windows with a shadow have a 1 pixel transparent stroke on them.

Basically, I don't like how it looks on oddly shaped windows. But normal s1uared ones look fine. And that color is not changable. Though, WindowShades X has the ability to turn them off.