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ethernet clients slow, wireless fast
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manofsteel300
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Jul 30, 2003, 05:00 PM
 
Switched from earthlink dsl to adelphia powerlink yesterday and was very happy with the speeds. I was pulling around 3000 kb down.
I hooked up a wireless router to the modem and everything was going fine.

I decided to hook up another computer. This computer does not have a wireless card. So the setup is as follows:

Terayon -> Ethernet Hub -> Airport -> wireless comps
Ethernet hub -> Computer

the Airport is acting as a bridge and is distributing ip using nat.

speeds on the wireless computers are good but the wired computer is very slow.

this is interesting because when i plug in the wired computer directly to the modem (using it exclusively) the speeds are fine. Its just when they are all connected, the wired computer barely browses.

any ideas?
DOS Computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq, Tandy, and millions of others are by far the most popular, with about 70 million machines in use worldwide. Macintosh fans, on the other hand, may note that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans, and that numbers alone do not denote a higher life form. -- New York Times, November 26, 1991
     
kampl
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Jul 30, 2003, 07:06 PM
 
I'd get rid of the hub between the modem and Airport for starters unless you plan on running a sniffer upstream from your router. Just a needless piece of equipment in the mix.

Try swapping out the cable on the wired computer.

Try different ports on the hub.

Give the collision light a look when transmitting/receiving data on the wired computer. Any other machines on that hub?
     
manofsteel300  (op)
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Jul 30, 2003, 07:26 PM
 
cant get rid of the hub.. otherwise no way to connect to the modem from the wired computer.. i have a graphite airport (ie no lan port)

this is the hub: http://www.nextlan.cz/produkty/smc/r...df/smc5604.pdf

tried a different slot on the hub.. no help.. wire is good i used the same one to connect to the modem from the wired computer and it worked fine

what gives?

thanks in advance
DOS Computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq, Tandy, and millions of others are by far the most popular, with about 70 million machines in use worldwide. Macintosh fans, on the other hand, may note that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans, and that numbers alone do not denote a higher life form. -- New York Times, November 26, 1991
     
kampl
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Jul 30, 2003, 07:59 PM
 
I guess I'm missing something then. Generally a hub shouldn't hang off the modem directly with multiple machines connected to it unless you're paying for multiple IP addresses from your ISP for each device hanging off the hub.

As I recall the ABS has a LAN and a WAN port. The WAN port should be cabled to the modem, and the LAN port should be cabled to the uplink port on the hub.

This will allow the ABS to route for both the wireless and wired clients as well as distribute private IP addresses via DHCP for all. The ABS will end up with the public IP address, provided to you by your ISP, that you are PAT'ing all internal hosts to.
     
kampl
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Jul 30, 2003, 08:08 PM
 
Sorry, missed the no LAN port comment. Where does the public IP address reside? On the modem? Does the modem double as a router?
     
aaanorton
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Jul 30, 2003, 09:07 PM
 
The problem is your hub. You're expecting it to do NAT and DHCP serving, but that is EXACTLY why god created routers. Go buy one (they're cheap) and put it right between you modem and ABS. Then make sure that sharing a single IP is DISabled on the ABS, because the router will be doing that.
Alternatively, you could buy a cheap wireless router that would replace both the the hub and the ABS all in one sleek box. For 40 bucks, this really seems like the way to go.
     
John Strung
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Jul 30, 2003, 10:06 PM
 
Triple A's advise is correct. With the setup you now have, your file sharing is going from the wired computer to the hub, to the modem, out to your ISP's router, back to the modem, to the ABS, then to the wireless computer. A router will solve this problem and isolate your LAN from the internet.
     
manofsteel300  (op)
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Jul 30, 2003, 11:43 PM
 
the airport is a router as far as i know..

ive had this setup for a whlie now with another service (earthlink dsl)

the airport is configured to do nat and is a wireless - ethernet bridge.

the way it works the modem is giving my airport the one ip address that im paying for. it does so through the hub. the airport then sends a signal back to the hub to me( the wired client) and it gives me an internal ip address (10.0.1.xx). it does the same to the wireless computers.

the way my network is set up is that the airport and the hub work together as a wireless access point and a router. and whats killer is that its worked until now perfectly..

now even though its giving me an internal ip address just as before, my internet speed is very slow in comparassion to the wireless clients, or when i directly connect to the modem.
DOS Computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq, Tandy, and millions of others are by far the most popular, with about 70 million machines in use worldwide. Macintosh fans, on the other hand, may note that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans, and that numbers alone do not denote a higher life form. -- New York Times, November 26, 1991
     
manofsteel300  (op)
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Jul 31, 2003, 01:12 AM
 
just for extra information:
this is my transfer statistics as reported by network utility

Recv Errors 1
Collisions 82

also i am not able to do a traceroute to any site..it hangs after the first step

on a wireless comptuer the traceroute does not work either.. but there are no recv errors or collisions

could those be making all the trouble? and if so how do i fix it?
DOS Computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq, Tandy, and millions of others are by far the most popular, with about 70 million machines in use worldwide. Macintosh fans, on the other hand, may note that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans, and that numbers alone do not denote a higher life form. -- New York Times, November 26, 1991
     
manofsteel300  (op)
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Jul 31, 2003, 01:59 AM
 
ive done more investigating..

when the modem and my computer are both connected to the hub i can connect at normal speed.

when the modem and the router are connected to the hub the router connects at high speed and gives it to the wireless clients.

so the issue has got to be either that the airport (router) is not sharing the connection fairly among wireless and wired clients ( which i dont think is the case because it dindt display this problem with dsl) or the issue is the fact that all 3 components cannot coexist peacefully on the hub (also unlikely since they were fine with the dsl modem, i doubt that the cable modem is causing weird interference)

in my previous set up i think i had my computer using the uplink slot on the hub but i am not sure.. is there any special priority that hubs give to uplink ports or to the first port over the second? could it be that a simple rearrange of the cables would solve the problem? if so which should go where?
DOS Computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq, Tandy, and millions of others are by far the most popular, with about 70 million machines in use worldwide. Macintosh fans, on the other hand, may note that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans, and that numbers alone do not denote a higher life form. -- New York Times, November 26, 1991
     
John Strung
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Jul 31, 2003, 08:29 AM
 
The collision message may be the clue to this. My guess is that you have a miswired ethernet cable. The most common way of miswring an ethernet cable results in a cable that works fine with a 10BaseT connection, but chokes on collisions with a 100BaseT connection. Your modem is 10BaseT and it may be that your hub or switch is 100BaseT.

In any case, check the end wiring of the ethernet cable against the wiring diagram found here:

http://www.incentre.net/incentre/frame/ethernet.html

For the explanation as to why the order of wiring makes a difference, see:

http://www.bluemax.net/techtips/netw...ttletheory.htm
     
aaanorton
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Jul 31, 2003, 11:18 AM
 
Whether it worked like this in the past or not is irrelevant. It's still not a correct LAN config. You want the router out in front, right after the modem. This is the whole point. Your previous DSL ISP could very easily have had something wonky going on to allow this, but I am not at all surprised that it no longer functions.
Fortunately, wired and wireless router prices have come down so dramatically lately, that your fix could easily be less that 50 bucks away. Plus having the router in front, where it should be, will provide an additional layer of security for your wired network.
     
manofsteel300  (op)
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Jul 31, 2003, 05:19 PM
 
Originally posted by John Strung:
The collision message may be the clue to this. My guess is that you have a miswired ethernet cable. The most common way of miswring an ethernet cable results in a cable that works fine with a 10BaseT connection, but chokes on collisions with a 100BaseT connection. Your modem is 10BaseT and it may be that your hub or switch is 100BaseT.

In any case, check the end wiring of the ethernet cable against the wiring diagram found here:

http://www.incentre.net/incentre/frame/ethernet.html

For the explanation as to why the order of wiring makes a difference, see:

http://www.bluemax.net/techtips/netw...ttletheory.htm
Thank you, i read those links, and from what i could understand crossover wires are better?

unfortunately i dont have the knowledge to understand what that said at a level that i could apply its theory to my setup. i have 7 or so ethernet cables lying around some 3 of which are crossover..

i guess there is some configuration where i put the wired computer crossover and the others not, in order to avoid collission? correct me if i am wrong.

if you could elaborate on this that would be great. for some reason this seems like the problem in my mind.



Originally posted by aaanorton:
Whether it worked like this in the past or not is irrelevant. It's still not a correct LAN config. You want the router out in front, right after the modem. This is the whole point. Your previous DSL ISP could very easily have had something wonky going on to allow this, but I am not at all surprised that it no longer functions.
Fortunately, wired and wireless router prices have come down so dramatically lately, that your fix could easily be less that 50 bucks away. Plus having the router in front, where it should be, will provide an additional layer of security for your wired network.
i understand what you are saying. ideally i would like to be able to solve this problem without another investment, even if the setup isnt conventional.. if the wiring doesnt solve the problem i will shell out 40 bucks for a new wireless router.

if thats what i end up having to do, any recommendations?
DOS Computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq, Tandy, and millions of others are by far the most popular, with about 70 million machines in use worldwide. Macintosh fans, on the other hand, may note that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans, and that numbers alone do not denote a higher life form. -- New York Times, November 26, 1991
     
aaanorton
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Jul 31, 2003, 05:48 PM
 
Originally posted by manofsteel300:
Thank you, i read those links, and from what i could understand crossover wires are better?...

...i understand what you are saying. ideally i would like to be able to solve this problem without another investment, even if the setup isnt conventional.. if the wiring doesnt solve the problem i will shell out 40 bucks for a new wireless router.

if thats what i end up having to do, any recommendations?
Neither cross-over or straight-through are inherently better or worse. It just depends on the application. Basically, straight-through (or patch) cables are used to connect computers to networking devices and cross-overs are for connecting a computer to another computer. However, all recent Macs (since the G3?) and many current PCs have auto-sensing e'net cards, which somewhat negate the need for cross-overs. And for a set up like yours (or like most home LANs, really) I don't think a cross-over would be needed (or even usable) anywhere.
Also keep in mind that if you do somehow get your current config working (which, honestly, I kinda doubt), you may very well find it not working again if your ISP makes any server changes. And as it is your PC is directly exposed to the whole internet. You could easily find a worse way to spend 40 bucks. Check out that link I posted earlier. That's a nice unit and it's dirt cheap. I haven't heard of any problems with that model yet.
     
manofsteel300  (op)
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Jul 31, 2003, 05:54 PM
 
how am i vulnerable to the internet if i dont have a public ip?
DOS Computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq, Tandy, and millions of others are by far the most popular, with about 70 million machines in use worldwide. Macintosh fans, on the other hand, may note that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans, and that numbers alone do not denote a higher life form. -- New York Times, November 26, 1991
     
aaanorton
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Jul 31, 2003, 06:40 PM
 
Originally posted by manofsteel300:
how am i vulnerable to the internet if i dont have a public ip?
And how are you going to get a private IP if your computer is before your DHCP server?
It's a conundrum, but good luck.
     
John Strung
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Jul 31, 2003, 06:41 PM
 
Originally posted by manofsteel300:


unfortunately i dont have the knowledge to understand what that said at a level that
The only thing you have to know is that all your cables should be straight-through and not cross-over cables and their ends should be wired according to the colour codes shown in the diagram on the first link.

If both ends are not wired as either T568A or T568B, the cables are faulty and should be replaced. Don't worry about the theory.
     
manofsteel300  (op)
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Jul 31, 2003, 06:51 PM
 
Originally posted by aaanorton:
And how are you going to get a private IP if your computer is before your DHCP server?
It's a conundrum, but good luck.
although it may be before the dhcp server it works..
i AM getting an ip address from the airport.

as far as i understand.. the way it works is as follows:

the modem is giving the airport an ip address through teh hub.. the airport then goes back to the hub and gives my computer an internal ip address.. wireless the airport gives the laptops ip addresses as well.

its always worked this way and it sorta works now too.. except that speeds are very very poor on the wired computer.
DOS Computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq, Tandy, and millions of others are by far the most popular, with about 70 million machines in use worldwide. Macintosh fans, on the other hand, may note that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans, and that numbers alone do not denote a higher life form. -- New York Times, November 26, 1991
     
manofsteel300  (op)
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Jul 31, 2003, 06:53 PM
 
Originally posted by John Strung:
The only thing you have to know is that all your cables should be straight-through and not cross-over cables and their ends should be wired according to the colour codes shown in the diagram on the first link.

If both ends are not wired as either T568A or T568B, the cables are faulty and should be replaced. Don't worry about the theory.
i used all non-crossover cables and it worked the same as before.. it gives me an ip address but yet its still slow. for the connection between the modem and the hub, the cable had to plugged into the uplink port on the hub or the data light wouldnt lite up..
any more ideas?
DOS Computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq, Tandy, and millions of others are by far the most popular, with about 70 million machines in use worldwide. Macintosh fans, on the other hand, may note that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans, and that numbers alone do not denote a higher life form. -- New York Times, November 26, 1991
     
aaanorton
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Jul 31, 2003, 07:06 PM
 
Originally posted by manofsteel300:
the modem is giving the airport an ip address through teh hub.. the airport then goes back to the hub and gives my computer an internal ip address.. wireless the airport gives the laptops ip addresses as well.

its always worked this way and it sorta works now too.. except that speeds are very very poor on the wired computer.
Which would indicate to me that you are connecting the two sides of your LAN through one of your ISP's routers, making all that data public information. But whatever, it's your choice.
     
manofsteel300  (op)
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Jul 31, 2003, 07:16 PM
 
Originally posted by aaanorton:
Which would indicate to me that you are connecting the two sides of your LAN through one of your ISP's routers, making all that data public information. But whatever, it's your choice.
besides for the netgear that you suggested are there other options? such as getting a normal router and having the airport act as a wap?

if im gonna get another piece of equipment id like it to be the cheapest possible..

i saw that linksys is offering something comparable to the netgear but its more expensive

is the netgear compatible with airport cards? how do you configure it? through a browser? whtas the range? could i use my current airport to boost the signal?
DOS Computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq, Tandy, and millions of others are by far the most popular, with about 70 million machines in use worldwide. Macintosh fans, on the other hand, may note that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans, and that numbers alone do not denote a higher life form. -- New York Times, November 26, 1991
     
aaanorton
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Jul 31, 2003, 07:58 PM
 
Originally posted by manofsteel300:
besides for the netgear that you suggested are there other options?
Yep.

such as getting a normal router and having the airport act as a wap?
Sure, but by the time you've paid for the router, that Netgear would probably cost about the same. Then you'd have it all in one box.

if im gonna get another piece of equipment id like it to be the cheapest possible..
MAYBE you could get a wired router for $5-10 less.

i saw that linksys is offering something comparable to the netgear but its more expensive
Personally, I don't care for Linksys units.

is the netgear compatible with airport cards?
Yep.

how do you configure it? through a browser?
Yep.

whtas the range?
Very good. Most likely better than your ABS. It does have an external antenna, which helps.

could i use my current airport to boost the signal?
Nope. Unless you ran an e'net cable to it.
     
manofsteel300  (op)
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Aug 1, 2003, 03:18 AM
 
netgear purchased through amazon for 58 bucks plus 20 dollar rebate :-)
DOS Computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq, Tandy, and millions of others are by far the most popular, with about 70 million machines in use worldwide. Macintosh fans, on the other hand, may note that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans, and that numbers alone do not denote a higher life form. -- New York Times, November 26, 1991
     
   
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