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You are here: MacNN Forums > Software - Troubleshooting and Discussion > macOS > Any Classic Improvements in Panther?

Any Classic Improvements in Panther?
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pdot
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Oct 29, 2003, 08:32 AM
 
I've found a few random posts that says that Classic is better in Panther, but the ones I've read so far has as much validity as "it's much snappier." Any comments with examples or reasons to back up Classic performance in Panther?
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KidRed
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Oct 29, 2003, 11:43 AM
 
HAHA, considering Panther does not come with OS 9, I don't see how there's any improvements to classic other then a side effect of Panther's main improvements.

Classic/OS 9 is dead, let it go.
( Last edited by KidRed; Oct 29, 2003 at 12:00 PM. )
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proton
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Oct 29, 2003, 12:11 PM
 
Uhm, Panther comes with the Classic environment. You know, the thing that Mac OS 9 runs inside in order to make the classic magic happen?

Panther doesn't come with a copy of Mac OS 9 on disc for you to install, but then neither did Jaguar.

While I can't say I've noticed any performance changes, I've only run Classic once since I installed Panther, and that was just then to check it still works good

There are some changes at least, like while classic starts the '9' on the Classic icon fills with colour, like a progress bar It seems to run just fine, but I'm not sure I'd notice much performance difference on my G5 anyway.

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noliv
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Oct 29, 2003, 12:48 PM
 
I think that in jaguar, the shadows of aqua windows were not displayed over classic windows (same thing for transparent terminal and every other Quartz transparency effects)

now in panther, it's "fixed"... nice!
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Sven G
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Oct 29, 2003, 12:56 PM
 
BTW, it would be an interesting experiment to see if it is possible to make a (very basic!) Classic system (maybe on a disk image, which seems to be the best solution in today's non-OS-9-bootable-Macs world) only from the resources in the /System/Library/CoreServices/Classic Startup.app: it seems to include (almost?) all of the necessary components for a working Classic install (maybe without the necessity of having a full Mac OS 9 install - as it should be, indeed!).

(One must enable invisible files/folders through TinkerTool or something similar, however, in order to see everything inside that package: interesting discoveries, anyway!)
( Last edited by Sven G; Oct 29, 2003 at 01:08 PM. )

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gorickey
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Oct 29, 2003, 01:07 PM
 
Originally posted by proton:
There are some changes at least, like while classic starts the '9' on the Classic icon fills with colour, like a progress bar It seems to run just fine, but I'm not sure I'd notice much performance difference on my G5 anyway.
Nice icon, haven't seen that happen before....cool....
     
SMacTech
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Oct 29, 2003, 02:03 PM
 
Originally posted by KidRed:
HAHA, considering Panther does not come with OS 9, I don't see how there's any improvements to classic other then a side effect of Panther's main improvements.

Classic/OS 9 is dead, let it go.
Just because it is dead for you, doesn't mean it isn't for others.
The biggest improvement has been the window refreshing of Classic windows. No more slow refreshes as the windows are now double-buffered.
     
Landos Mustache
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Oct 29, 2003, 02:06 PM
 
Originally posted by KidRed:
HAHA, considering Panther does not come with OS 9, I don't see how there's any improvements to classic other then a side effect of Panther's main improvements.
OK, That was retarded.

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KidRed
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Oct 29, 2003, 02:41 PM
 
What's retarded?

Anyway. As I said, OS 9 is dead to Apple, it's dead to developers, in such it is dead to end users in the sense they are being sent a message, 'OS9 is dead'. Whether some refuse for whatever reason to move on, is an entirely different thread. Because Panther ( and Jaguar) don't come with OS 9, it's obvious Apple isn't spending too much time making Classic improvements. I don't remember reading any classic features or improvements in Panther, so any would be due to overall system improvements meant solely for Panther.
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benb
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Oct 29, 2003, 02:47 PM
 
Classic windows are now double buffered, and through the Classic menu extra you can access Apple Menu Items!
     
parsec_kadets
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Oct 29, 2003, 03:38 PM
 
There's now a Classic menu item that you can add to the menu bar along with the clock and such. From that menu you can start and stop classic without having to go into the System Prefs. to do it.
     
osiris
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Oct 29, 2003, 04:50 PM
 
Originally posted by KidRed:
What's retarded?

Anyway. As I said, OS 9 is dead to Apple, it's dead to developers, in such it is dead to end users in the sense they are being sent a message, 'OS9 is dead'. Whether some refuse for whatever reason to move on, is an entirely different thread. Because Panther ( and Jaguar) don't come with OS 9, it's obvious Apple isn't spending too much time making Classic improvements. I don't remember reading any classic features or improvements in Panther, so any would be due to overall system improvements meant solely for Panther.
Woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning?

Some of us don't like the idea of buying tons of new software that already works perfectly well in 9. If you have a few extra grand laying around, send it pdot, or better yet, to me.
     
pdot  (op)
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Oct 29, 2003, 06:31 PM
 
Just because developers stop making programs for OS9 doesn't mean that OS9 machines don't have any more value. That's the beauty of being an Apple user. Even after OS9 came out, OS7 users were still happily and effectively using their old Macs.

I've heard rumors of Apple making adjustments to the Classic environment and wanted to know about users' current experiences. Apparently, the rumors are true and Apple is still tweaking Classic. That window redraw problem was bugging me. Glad to know it's been taken care of.

Thanks for the feedback, everyone.



Originally posted by KidRed:
What's retarded?

Anyway. As I said, OS 9 is dead to Apple, it's dead to developers, in such it is dead to end users in the sense they are being sent a message, 'OS9 is dead'....
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Superchicken
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Oct 29, 2003, 06:41 PM
 
Fireworks 3 was OS 9 only, and is like four times faster than MX, and I've got a G3 iBook, classic will never die till I get a G5
     
romeosc
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Oct 29, 2003, 07:22 PM
 
I still prefer Pagemaker to Indesign 2 or Quark. Hard for an old dog to learn new tricks! Pagemaker runs in 9 only!
     
ryaxnb
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Oct 29, 2003, 08:06 PM
 
Originally posted by KidRed:
HAHA, considering Panther does not come with OS 9, I don't see how there's any improvements to classic other then a side effect of Panther's main improvements.

Classic/OS 9 is dead, let it go.
NEWSFLASH: Classic is not dead. My mom uses Classic for After Dark Games. I use Classic for Color It 3 and Street Atlas USA. The Low End Mac guy uses Classic for Claris HomePage. Classic is still important for many. Wanna run your old, little-used Word 98? Something tells me if you only run it once every other week, you don't wanna plunge down $149 Student (but works fine with non-students and teachers too) for Office v.X. Etc.
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ryaxnb
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Oct 29, 2003, 08:23 PM
 
In the Classic application switcher (you know, the menu at the top right) see icons for many OS X apps that used to have generic app icons.
Currently, I see icons for Finder, Mail Sys Prefs, Terminal and Textedit. Clock and Launchbar still have generic icons.
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Brass
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Oct 29, 2003, 09:28 PM
 
Originally posted by KidRed:
What's retarded?

Anyway. As I said, OS 9 is dead to Apple, it's dead to developers, in such it is dead to end users in the sense they are being sent a message, 'OS9 is dead'. Whether some refuse for whatever reason to move on, is an entirely different thread. Because Panther ( and Jaguar) don't come with OS 9, it's obvious Apple isn't spending too much time making Classic improvements. I don't remember reading any classic features or improvements in Panther, so any would be due to overall system improvements meant solely for Panther.
You only have to read this thread to note at least one major Panther improvement to Classic (ie, window buffering/refreshing).

OS 9 being (marketted as) "dead" to Apple and developers does NOT mean it is dead to users. "Whether some refuse... to move on" is an ignorant statement. Some have NO CHOICE but to use classic, because they depend on applications that do not run on Mac OS X natively. And No, they cannot find another similar application in some situations (eg, I can ONLY submit my ATO taxation BAS using a classic application, there are no free 3D modelling applications for Mac OS X that I've been able to find... certainly none as easy to use as DesignWorkshop Lite).
     
zen
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Oct 31, 2003, 10:25 PM
 
On my machine, Classic is waaaaaay slower under Panther. I use classic to run old games - in particular Caesar III - and under Jaguar everything was fine. Now under Panther it's treacle.

Wtf have Apple done to Classic?

Zen
     
ZackS
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Oct 31, 2003, 10:58 PM
 
The double buffered windows take their toll on games without hardware acceleration.
     
zen
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Oct 31, 2003, 11:48 PM
 
Originally posted by ZackS:
The double buffered windows take their toll on games without hardware acceleration.
So what is the point of double buffered windows?

Is there any way to disable it, or hack it so it can be disabled?

Zen
     
blackwind
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Nov 1, 2003, 12:41 AM
 
I will have to agree that double-buffered windows seems to cause me more problems in Classic than good. In Photoshop, the marquee cursor is now invisible when the cursor is over the window.

Even worse, Escape Velocity now runs at only 1 fps, and Escape Velocity Override is also quite slow (though it is not as bad... although my personal Star Trek plug-in for EV with an average of 20 ships per system may be taking its toll too... still, it worked perfectly in Jaguar's Classic).

Ah well... now I have no choice but to be productive...
     
   
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