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You are here: MacNN Forums > Software - Troubleshooting and Discussion > macOS > Mac.com "Yours to Keep"

Mac.com "Yours to Keep" (Page 2)
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essex
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Jul 20, 2002, 01:32 AM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by starman:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">
well, then you never had it.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Well, then, Steve should never have said "yours to KEEP" because now it looks like he's a f*cking liar.

Mike</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">It wouldn't look that way if his statement was considered in context.
     
starman
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Jul 20, 2002, 01:41 AM
 
What CONTEXT?

The guy's on stage and says that iTools is free.

Same day, same stage, he says that your mac.com email address, a part of the free iTools, is yours to keep.

Does that NOT imply that the email is FREE to KEEP? Did he say something in parenthesis that we're all missing?

So what CONTEXT is missing here?

Mike

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essex
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Jul 20, 2002, 01:58 AM
 
edit: double post.

<small>[ 07-20-2002, 02:00 AM: Message edited by: essex ]</small>
     
essex
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Jul 20, 2002, 01:59 AM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by starman:
<strong>What CONTEXT?

The guy's on stage and says that iTools is free.

Same day, same stage, he says that your mac.com email address, a part of the free iTools, is yours to keep.

Does that NOT imply that the email is FREE to KEEP? Did he say something in parenthesis that we're all missing?

So what CONTEXT is missing here?

Mike</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">1. iTools are a set of services. Email is a service as well.
2. At the time of the statement the service was indeed free. It was not implied that it would remain free till the end of time. The EULA also had no mention of iTools being free for life. In fact, it mentions the possibilty that Apple could charge for the service in the future.
3. The statement "Yours to Keep" was made in the CONTEXT of an iTools user changing his or her ISP.
     
booboo
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Jul 20, 2002, 06:10 AM
 
If Microsoft had commited such an act of hypocrisy, the reaction would have been unanimous.
Mac Pro 2.66, 2GB RAM | 4 x 250 GB HD's | MOTO 424e/2408-II
     
Chuckit
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Jul 20, 2002, 06:48 AM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Spirit_VW:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Guy Incognito:
<strong>Hey you just bought a car for 25k. It's yours to keep. Oh one more thing, you gotta pay me 1 million or you can't keep the car.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Not exactly a great analogy. It'd be more like getting free use of a car (not being given a car), then after 2 million people get free use of cars and the gas and insurance and everything is costing the company tons, they have to start charging for the use of the car.

iTools was a service, not a product.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">I'm not sure it conceptually was a service. An e-mail address is generally considered a "thing," something that you have, not something that is done to you. Now, granted, there may have been a service on their end necessary for people to keep this thing that they said people could keep. But it's not the service that people are complaining about; it's the thing that this service was responsible for maintaining the existence of. They feel that this thing was theirs as Apple stated, and that Apple is being an Indian giver by taking away the e-mail address that was the product of their service.

In short: There was a product. The customer's ability to keep this product depended on Apple providing a service. Apple promised the customer that the product was theirs to keep. Thus, they indirectly promised not to discontinue service.
Chuck
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essex
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Jul 20, 2002, 09:05 AM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Chuckit:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Spirit_VW:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Guy Incognito:
<strong>Hey you just bought a car for 25k. It's yours to keep. Oh one more thing, you gotta pay me 1 million or you can't keep the car.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Not exactly a great analogy. It'd be more like getting free use of a car (not being given a car), then after 2 million people get free use of cars and the gas and insurance and everything is costing the company tons, they have to start charging for the use of the car.

iTools was a service, not a product.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">I'm not sure it conceptually was a service. An e-mail address is generally considered a "thing," something that you have, not something that is done to you. Now, granted, there may have been a service on their end necessary for people to keep this thing that they said people could keep. But it's not the service that people are complaining about; it's the thing that this service was responsible for maintaining the existence of. They feel that this thing was theirs as Apple stated, and that Apple is being an Indian giver by taking away the e-mail address that was the product of their service.

In short: There was a product. The customer's ability to keep this product depended on Apple providing a service. Apple promised the customer that the product was theirs to keep. Thus, they indirectly promised not to discontinue service.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">No, it's not a product in that sence at all! We speak about computers and the things they do metaphorically to facilicate communication about concepts that are somewhat abstract. Again, our use of the language does nothing to change the fact that email is an ongoing service.
     
Millennium
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Jul 20, 2002, 11:17 AM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by essex:
<strong>I'd argue that's it's not a common sence assumption that a service will remain free forever in the absence of an explicit statement to that effect.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Really? Go ask any ten people the following: "I give you a service, saying that it is free. Two years later, I announce that I'm going to start charging for it. Are you surprised?" I guarantee you, eight out of ten people would be. That's what common sense is.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">As far as disabusing people of the notion, it was in the EULA.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Kindly show me the EULA, then; I want to see this for myself.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">I disagree that that his statement was misleading at all. At the time iTools was free. That was a factual statement. No implication was made that iTools would be free forever.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">I don't know what planet you are from, but the common-sense assumption is what when no one says something is subject to change (and no one ever said that it was), that it's not going to change. You'll notice that many pricing offers have "Prices subject to change" in fine print somewhere, just to make sure they can say they said it; why would they do this, if common sense dictates that not saying it isn't misleading? But Apple never said any such thing.

Tell me, essex, are you a lawyer or something? Or related to Clinton or Gates? Or does it depend on what your definition of "is" is?
You are in Soviet Russia. It is dark. Grue is likely to be eaten by YOU!
     
JLL
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Jul 20, 2002, 11:55 AM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Millennium:
<strong>Kindly show me the EULA, then; I want to see this for myself.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">iTOOLS MEMBERSHIP AGREEMENT
AND
ACCEPTABLE USE POLICY
revised 1/02/01

This iTools membership agreement and acceptable use policy (the �agreement� or the �AUP�) provides important information about your iTools membership, so you should take the time to read and understand it. You may review, save or print any part of this agreement. We encourage you to print out a copy of this entire document and refer to it as you use iTools.

IMPORTANT: IF YOU CHOOSE TO ACCEPT THIS AGREEMENT, YOU MUST DO SO AS IT IS PRESENTED TO YOU -- NO CHANGES (ADDITIONS OR DELETIONS) WILL BE ACCEPTED BY APPLE.

Apple may change, add or remove any part of this agreement at any time. If it does so, Apple will post such changes on the iTools site. IF ANY FUTURE CHANGES ARE UNACCEPTABLE TO YOU, YOU SHOULD DISCONTINUE USING YOUR iTOOLS ACCOUNT. YOUR CONTINUED USE OF iTOOLS NOW, OR FOLLOWING THE POSTING OF NOTICE OF ANY SUCH CHANGES, WILL INDICATE YOUR ACCEPTANCE OF THIS AGREEMENT, AND ANY SUCH CHANGES.

� BECOMING AN iTOOLS MEMBER

To become an iTools member, you must be at least 13 years old. If you are not yet 13 years old, you may still use iTools, but only if the account you are using was created and registered by your parent or legal guardian.

This agreement is a legal document that sets forth your rights and obligations as an iTools member. You cannot become an iTools member until you have accepted the terms of this agreement. You, as an iTools member, must abide by the terms of this agreement. Your iTools membership is also subject to Apple�s corporate Privacy Policy. This applies to this agreement and the Privacy Policy as they currently exist and as they may be revised from time to time by Apple.

When you accept this agreement and complete the iTools registration process, you become the account holder. As an iTools member, Apple provides you with a limited, non-exclusive license for no more than the term of your membership to use the member name and password provided to you for your account. Your member name is your on-line identity. Do not reveal your password to other users. Your account is at risk if you let someone use it inappropriately.


� AVAILABILITY OF THE SERVICE

While Apple will make all reasonable efforts to ensure that iTools is available at all times, Apple does not guarantee, represent or warrant that iTools services will be uninterrupted or error-free, and Apple does not guarantee that members will be able to access or use all the iTools features at all times.

Apple may change, suspend or discontinue any (or all) aspects of iTools at any time, including the availability of any iTools feature or content. Apple may also impose limits on the use of or access to certain features or portions of iTools, including a charge for or imposition of a subscription or other fee for use of iTools or any part or feature of iTools, or restrict your access to any part or all of iTools, in all cases without notice or liability.

Apple also does not guarantee or warrant that any content or data you may have in your account at iTools will not be subject to inadvertent damage, corruption or destruction. You are responsible for backing up, on your own computer, any important documents, images or other content -- Apple will not be responsible for any archiving or back-up of any such information. If any data, messages, images or other content in your account and stored on the iTools system is damaged, lost or corrupted in any way, Apple will have no obligation or liability to you.


� ACCEPTABLE USE POLICY GUIDELINES

Apple encourages iTools members to participate in the on-line world to express their views and benefit from the interactive experience. However, it is important to remember that there are rules and standards that you must abide by as an iTools member. These rules and standards are described in this agreement. As an iTools member, you agree to comply with this agreement, and you acknowledge that Apple has the right to enforce this agreement in its sole discretion. This means that if you, or anyone using your member privileges, violate the terms of this agreement, Apple may take any and all appropriate actions -- this can range from the issuance of a warning about a violation to the termination of your membership privileges in iTools -- as Apple deems necessary or appropriate. Apple is not required to provide notice prior to terminating your iTools membership for violating these rules and standards, but it may choose to do so.

You are solely responsible for your conduct while using iTools, including the content of all email messages you generate or forward, and all content in any folders, home pages or other transmissions, information, images or other interactions you generate, transmit or maintain on or through iTools. Apple takes no responsibility for any such on-line distribution or publication by you. Apple cannot and will not review every message or other content you may generate or post, and Apple is not responsible for the content of those messages or content.

Apple reserves the right to delete, move or edit any such item that Apple, in its sole discretion, deems abusive, defamatory, obscene, in violation of copyright or trademark laws, or otherwise illegal, inappropriate or unacceptable, including any material Apple believes may cause any liability for it or which may cause Apple to lose the services of any supplier, including but not limited to any Internet Service Providers (ISPs) which may provide services to iTools members.

A user�s conduct in the iTools space should conform to the requirements of the law, respect for the rights of other users of iTools, and current standards for communicating on-line. By your use of iTools, you agree to use appropriate conduct and language when you are on line -- this includes following the rules of any ISP, any other on-line services, this agreement and all applicable state, local and federal laws (including foreign or international law where appropriate).

Apple reserves the right to terminate your account or suspend iTools services to you at any time, with cause or without cause, in the event of any breach of this agreement, your infringement of Apple�s or iTools� or others� content, or any other circumstances which, in Apple�s sole discretion, merit termination or suspension.

Inappropriate conduct falls into a number of categories. The more commonly understood categories are discussed below, although this list is not exclusive.

� Illegal Conduct.

iTools may be used only for lawful purposes. The laws that apply in the off-line world must be obeyed on-line as well. Posting, transmitting, promoting, using, distributing or storing Content in violation of any applicable law or regulation is prohibited. �Content� means the text, software, communications, images, sounds, and all other information and materials you encounter or generate on-line on the Internet, including material protected by copyright, trademark, trade secret or other intellectual property rights, and material that is obscene, defamatory, constitutes an illegal threat, or violates export control laws.

Examples of prohibited illegal conduct are:

� Posting obscene content (including child pornography)

� Planning illegal activity, such as building a bomb or counterfeiting money

� Advertising a lottery, ammunition, firearms, tobacco, alcohol, illegal drugs and drug-related paraphernalia

� Pretending to be anyone you are not -- you may not impersonate another person (including celebrities), another iTools Member, an Apple employee, or a civic or government leader

� Using false statements to get, or to attempt to get, account information or other private information from other iTools members or Internet users

� Engaging in copyright infringement or other intellectual property infringement

If you believe that illegal Content is being transmitted through any iTools service, you may report it by filling out the abuse reporting form located in the �ContactUs� section of the iTools Help system.

Apple reserves the right to cooperate with law enforcement authorities, including complying with warrants, court orders and subpoenas. If Apple decides to investigate or resolve possible misuse involving you or anything you do on iTools, Apple is entitled to disclose any information about you and anything you do with iTools to law enforcement or other government officials, as Apple, in its sole discretion, believes to be necessary or appropriate. By your use of iTools, you authorize Apple to take any such actions.

� Objectionable Conduct and Content

It is essential that all Content on iTools reflect the provisions of this agreement. Apple reserves the right to remove Content if we become aware of any content in any iTools area which, in our judgment, does not conform to this agreement. You may receive a warning about the violation of this agreement if your iTools account was responsible for putting objectionable Content on-line. At all times, Apple reserves the right to terminate the accounts of iTools members who violate this AUP.

Examples of objectionable conduct and Content that violate the iTools acceptable use policy are:

� Harassing, threatening, or embarrassing another iTools or Internet user

� Stalking another iTools or Internet user (�cyberstalking�)

� Transmitting or facilitating distribution of Content that is harmful, abusive, violent, racially or ethnically offensive, lewd, vulgar or (in a reasonable person�s view) objectionable

� If you are an adult, requesting personal or other information from a minor (any person under the age of 18) who is not personally known to you, including but not limited to any of the following: full name or last name, home address, zip code, telephone number, picture, or the names of the minor�s school, church, athletic team or friends

� Posting Content that defames, abuses or threatens physical harm to others or yourself

Please remember that these are only guidelines; there are always �gray areas.� Ask yourself if your communication is something that you would say in a room full of people you never met, or in the workplace. However, Apple reserves the right to make the final determination about whether Content is objectionable or not.

If you encounter something you find inappropriate, you may report it by filling out the abuse reporting form located in the �ContactUs� section of the iTools Help system.


� Copyright and Intellectual Property Infringement

Much of the Content available through iTools is owned by others, and is protected by copyrights, trademarks, rights of publicity and other intellectual property rights. Before you upload or download any Content while using iTools, make sure you have been given the legal right to do so by the owner of the content. The Mac OS X Software folder on iDisk contains third-party software, which has been licensed by the developers thereof to Apple. You may download and use this software for your own personal use, subject to any rights retained by the developers.

� You must not copy, transmit, modify, distribute, show in public or in private or create any derivative works from any of the Content you find through iTools, unless you have the legal right to do so; and

� You must not make available serial numbers for software for the purpose of illegally validating or registering software.

Making unauthorized copies of any Content can lead to the termination of your access to iTools and may even subject you to legal action. In addition, the owner of the Content may take criminal or civil action against you. If a Content owner takes legal action against Apple because of your unauthorized use of Content, you agree to hold harmless and indemnify Apple, its subsidiaries, affiliates, related companies, employees, officers, directors, agents and suppliers against any liability, claims, or demands, including the costs of Apple hiring attorneys to defend against the action.

By submitting or posting Content on areas of iTools accessible by the public, you are representing that you are the owner of such material or have authorization to distribute it. You hereby grant Apple a worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive license to reproduce, modify, adapt and publish any such public area Content solely for the purpose of displaying, distributing and promoting the area on which such content is posted. Said license will be in effect only as long as you are an iTools member, and will terminate upon removal of such Content from the public area or when you are no longer an iTools member, whichever happens first.

If you believe that any Content in which you claim copyright has been infringed by anyone using iTools, please contact Apple�s agent (see below), and provide the following information, as required by the Online Copyright Infringement Liability Limitation Act of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (17 U.S.C. 512):

� A physical or electronic signature of a person authorized to act on behalf of the owner of an exclusive right that is allegedly infringed;

� Identification of the copyright work claimed to have been infringed, or (if multiple copyrighted works at a single on-line site are covered by a single notification) a representative list of such works at that site;

� Identification of the material that is claimed to be infringing or to be the subject of infringing activity and that is to be removed or access to which is to be disabled, and information reasonably sufficient to permit Apple to locate the material;

� Information reasonably sufficient to permit Apple to contact the complaining party;

� A statement that the complaining party has a good faith belief that use of the material in the manner complained of is not authorized by the copyright owner, its agent, or the law; and

� A statement that the information in the notice is accurate and, under penalty of perjury, that the complaining party is authorized to act on behalf of the owner of an exclusive right that is allegedly infringed.

Apple�s copyright agent for notice of claims of copyright infringement on or regarding iTools can be reached as follows:

Anthony V. Lupo
Arent Fox Kintner Plotkin & Kahn, PLLC
1050 Connecticut Avenue, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20036-5339
Phone: (202) 857-6353
Fax: (202) 857-6395
Email: [email protected]

� Violations of System and Network Security

Violations of system and network security are prohibited, and may result in criminal and civil liability. Apple will investigate incidents involving such violations and may involve and will report any suspected criminal activity to and cooperate with law enforcement. Examples of system and network security violations include the following:

� Unauthorized access to or use of data, systems or networks, including any attempt to probe, scan or test the vulnerability of a system or network or to breach security or authentication measures without the express authorization of the owner of the system or network

� Unauthorized monitoring of data or traffic on any network or system without the express authorization of the owner of the system or network

� Interference with service to any user, host or network including, without limitation, mailbombing, flooding, deliberate attempts to overload a system and broadcast attacks

� Falsifying your user identity or providing other false information to Apple or to other users of iTools in connection with your use of iTools or any feature of iTools

� Posting viruses or software designed to create a virus or to do harm to iTools, any iTools Members or users of iTools, or any network

� Taking any other action to disrupt the normal use of iTools or the Internet by other users

� Use of software that allows your account to stay logged on while you are not actively using the account.

� Unsolicited E-Mail (�Spamming� and �Mailbombing�)

This agreement prohibits abuse of iTools� e-mail and related functionalities. Some specific examples of prohibited actions are as follows:

� Sending unsolicited bulk e‑mail messages, including, without limitation, bulk commercial advertising and informational announcements (�bulk� means sending the same or substantially similar messages to more than 25 e-mail users in a single day)

� Using information collected from any iTools user or iTools Member directory or any other area of iTools for the purpose of sending unsolicited bulk e‑mail

� Posting the same or similar messages to one or more Usenet or other news groups, forums, or e-mail mailing lists (excessive cross-posting or multiple-posting) (�excessive� includes posting the same or substantially similar messages to ten (10) or more groups in a single day)

� Forging of any TCP-IP packet header or any part of the header information in an e-mail or a news group posting, or otherwise putting information in the header designed to mislead recipients as to the origin of the message

� Using another site�s mail server to relay mail without the express permission of the other site

� Engaging in any of the foregoing activities by using the services of another provider, but channeling such activities through an iTools account, remailer, or otherwise through any feature of iTools, or using an iTools account as a mail drop for responses, or otherwise using the services of another provider for the purpose of facilitating the foregoing activities

� Exceeding Account Limitations

iTools has been designed primarily for personal use. We do not intend that iTools will be used to host e-commerce businesses in their marketing, promotions and sales over the Internet. We also do not intend that iTools accounts will be used for FTP access and downloading. iTools accounts are limited in terms of the bandwidth for network traffic and disk utilization for storage allocated to them. Your iDisk account usage is limited to 20 MB and your email account may not exceed 5 MB. Exceeding the applicable limitations is prohibited.

In addition to the iTools account limitations on bandwidth and disk utilization, certain commercial or business uses are prohibited, including the following:

� Soliciting for advertisers or sponsors

� Posting sponsorships and third-party advertisements and banners

� Sending unsolicited advertising, promotional materials or commercial solicitations to third parties

� Reselling, renting or subleasing iTools space under any circumstance

� Using or providing to any third person or entity, whether or not for a fee, any directory of iTools Members other than for personal, non-commercial purposes

� Disseminating multi-level marketing schemes, pyramid schemes, or commercial chain letters


� INVESTIGATIONS

Apple reserves the right to investigate suspected violations of this iTools agreement. When Apple becomes aware of possible violations, Apple may initiate an investigation, which may include gathering information from any iTools member involved and the complaining party, if any, and the examination of Content stored on the iTools system.

During the investigation, Apple may suspend or terminate any or all iTools member accounts involved and/or remove the Content involved from its computers. If Apple believes, in its sole discretion, that a violation of this agreement has occurred, it may take responsive action, including but not limited to permanent removal of illegal or inappropriate Content from the iTools system, warnings to the iTools member(s), and the suspension or termination of the account or accounts responsible.

If, as a result of any such investigation, Apple believes that any criminal activity has occurred, Apple reserves the right to refer the matter to, and to cooperate with, any and all appropriate law enforcement authorities.

BY BECOMING AN iTOOLS MEMBER, YOU AGREE TO WAIVE ANY CLAIMS YOU MAY HAVE AGAINST APPLE, AND TO HOLD APPLE HARMLESS AND INDEMNIFY APPLE WITH RESPECT TO ANY CLAIMS, RELATING TO ANY ACTION TAKEN BY APPLE AS PART OF ITS INVESTIGATION OF A SUSPECTED VIOLATION OF THIS AGREMENT OR AS A RESULT OF ITS FINDING OR DECISION THAT A VIOLATION OF THIS AGREEMENT HAS OCCURRED. THIS MEANS THAT YOU CANNOT SUE APPLE OR RECOVER ANY DAMAGES WHATSOEVER FROM APPLE AS A RESULT OF ITS DECISION TO REMOVE MATERIAL FROM THE iTOOLS SYSTEM, TO WARN YOU, TO SUSPEND OR TERMINATE YOUR iTOOLS ACCOUNT, OR TO TAKE ANY OTHER ACTION DURING THE INVESTIGATION OF A SUSPECTED VIOLATION OR AS A RESULT OF APPLE�S CONCLUSION THAT A VIOLATION OF THIS AGREEMENT HAS OCCURRED. THIS WAIVER AND INDEMNITY PROVISION APPLIES TO ALL VIOLATIONS DESCRIBED IN OR CONTEMPLATED BY THIS AGREEMENT.


� SOFTWARE LICENSES

If you access iTools through downloaded software or a CD-ROM, then these provisions relating to software licenses apply to you. Nothing in these provisions, however, supersedes any terms of any end-user license for software provided with your computer.

Apple provides you with a limited license to use the software providing access to iTools, which you agree to use in accordance with these rules. You may not sublicense, or charge others to use or access, this software. Apple will occasionally provide automatic upgrades to improve your on-line experience.

Apple grants to you a non-exclusive, limited license to use the software designed to provide access to iTools for the sole purpose of connecting you to iTools. This license is subject to the restriction that, except where expressly permitted by law, you may not translate, reverse-engineer or reverse-compile or decompile, disassemble or make derivative works from the software. You may not modify the software or use it in any way not expressly authorized by this agreement. You understand that Apple�s introduction of various technologies may not be consistent across all platforms and that the performance and some iTools features may vary depending on your computer and systems and other equipment.


� DISCLAIMER OF WARRANTIES; LIABILITY LIMITATIONS

YOU EXPRESSLY AGREE THAT YOUR USE OF, OR INABILITY TO USE, THE iTOOLS SERVICES ARE AT YOUR SOLE RISK. iTOOLS SERVICES ARE PROVIDED �AS IS� AND �AS AVAILABLE� FOR YOUR USE, WITHOUT WARRANTIES OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING ALL IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, TITLE AND NON-INFRINGEMENT. BECAUSE SOME JURISDICTIONS DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OF IMPLIED WARRANTIES, THE ABOVE EXCLUSION OF IMPLIED WARRANTIES MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU.

APPLE DOES NOT GUARANTEE THAT ANY CONTENT, INFORMATION, SOFTWARE OR OTHER MATERIAL ACCESSIBLE THROUGH iTOOLS WILL BE FREE OF VIRUSES, �WORMS�, �TROJAN HORSES�, OR OTHER HARMFUL COMPONENTS. APPLE�S ENTIRE LIABILITY AND YOUR SOLE AND EXCLUSIVE REMEDY WITH RESPECT TO THE USE OF ANY SERVICES PROVIDED BY iTOOLS SHALL BE CANCELLATION OF YOUR ACCOUNT.

IN NO CASE SHALL APPLE, ITS DIRECTORS, OFFICERS, EMPLOYEES, AFFILIATES, AGENTS OR CONTRACTORS BE LIABLE FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES ARISING FROM YOUR USE OF iTOOLS OR FOR ANY OTHER CLAIM RELATED IN ANY WAY TO YOUR iTOOLS MEMBERSHIP. BECAUSE SOME STATES OR JURISDICTIONS DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OR THE LIMITATION OF LIABILITY FOR CONSEQUENTIAL OR INCIDENTAL DAMAGES, IN SUCH STATES OR JURISDICTIONS, APPLE�S LIABILITY SHALL BE LIMITED TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY LAW.

EXCEPT AS EXPRESSLY SET FORTH IN iTOOLS, APPLE DOES NOT ENDORSE, WARRANT OR GUARANTEE ANY THIRD-PARTY PRODUCT OR SERVICE OFFERED THROUGH iTOOLS AND WILL NOT BE A PARTY TO OR IN ANY WAY BE RESPONSIBLE FOR MONITORING ANY TRANSACTION BETWEEN YOU AND ANY THIRD PARTIES THROUGH iTOOLS. YOU HEREBY RELEASE APPLE FROM ANY AND ALL OBLIGATIONS, LIABILITY AND CLAIMS IN EXCESS OF THESE LIABILITY LIMITATIONS.


� NOTICES

Apple may give notice to any iTools member by sending an e-mail message to the member�s mailbox or by sending a letter via postal mail to the contact address listed in the member�s iTools registration. iTools members may contact Apple by filling out the �Comments and Ideas� form in the �ContactUs� section of the iTools Help system.


� EXPORT CONTROLS

You agree to abide by U.S. and other applicable export control laws and not to transfer, by electronic transmission or otherwise, any Content or software subject to restrictions under such laws to a destination prohibited under such laws, without first obtaining, and then complying with, any requisite government authorization. You further agree not to upload to your iTools account any data or software that cannot be exported without prior written government authorization, including, but not limited to, certain types of encryption software. This assurance and commitment shall survive termination of this agreement.


� LEGAL PRINCIPLES

With respect to iTools, this agreement represents your entire agreement with Apple. You agree that this agreement is not intended to confer and does not confer any rights or remedies upon any person other than you, as an iTools member, and Apple.

If any part of this agreement is held invalid or unenforceable, that portion shall be construed in a manner consistent with applicable law to reflect, as nearly as possible, the original intentions of the parties, and the remaining portions shall remain in full force and effect. The laws of the State of California, excluding its conflicts of law rules, govern this agreement and your iTools membership. Member conduct may be subject to other local, state, national, and international laws. You expressly agree that exclusive jurisdiction for any claim or dispute with Apple regarding iTools or relating in any way to your membership or your use of iTools resides in the courts of the State of California. You further agree and expressly consent to the exercise of personal jurisdiction in the California courts in connection with any such dispute, including any claim involving Apple or its affiliates, subsidiaries, employees, contractors, officers, directors, telecommunication providers and content providers with respect to iTools.

Under California Civil Code Section 1789.3, California iTools members receive the following specific consumer rights notice: The Complaint Assistance Unit of the Division of Consumer Services of the California Department of Consumer Affairs may be contacted in writing at 1020 N Street, #501, Sacramento, California 95814, or by telephone at 1-916-445-1254.


Revised 1.02.01

� Copyright 2001 Apple Computer, Inc. All rights reserved.
JLL

- My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right.
     
Brazuca  (op)
Mac Elite
Join Date: Oct 2000
Status: Offline
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Jul 20, 2002, 12:06 PM
 
Since we are arguing semantics here, I just thought I'll put in my opinion. It's just *one* possible view of this so don't jump on my back and start yelling.

First remember that iTools was never, *ever* a free service. Money for it came from hardware and software sales. It was built into the price of your Mac, OS, etc. In this sense, all of Apple customers bought iTools, and only a percentage of these exercised their memberships.

The way I took the "yours to keep" statement is that Apple was giving not an email address, but *membership* in iTools. They *gave* you the right to use that service. In effect they *gave* you a free membership as if you paid for it, entitling you to the services provided by iTools. Moreover, it implies that the "price" (free) wouldn't go up.

"Here, dear Mac user. I am giving you a membership to iTools. Yours to Keep. In other words, take this membership, it's yours and unless you violate the fair use clauses (porn, crimes, etc), I won't take it away."

Now the story is:
Apple - "Remember that membership that I *gave* you? Well, now you'll have to give me some cash or I'll take it from you."

User - "But Apple, it's mine. You gave it to me. To Keep, remember?"

Apple - "Sorry, I didn't really mean it. Were you really dumb enough to believe what I said??? Please! Don't be so naive. Besides, I need the cash. Fork it over."

Why does the word "Keep" imply that it will be taken away? I don't understand why some argue this?

But beyond all of this, I'd be very surprised if somewhere in the user agreement for iTools it didn't give Apple the option to do just what they did, so I won't doubt the Legality� of this.

Yup, I think we all suspected that the EULA does indeed include a clause with the option to impose a fee. No surprise there....and it's not really the point.

<small>[ 07-20-2002, 12:09 PM: Message edited by: Brazuca ]</small>
"It's about time trees did something good insted of just standing there LIKE JERKS!" :)
     
manofsteel300
Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Los Angeles
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 21, 2002, 01:33 AM
 
speaking of legality..

if im not mistaken, even if the EULA "protects" Apple.. since the marketing gave people the impression that it wasnt ever going to go subscription based, a judge might here this case as bait and switch.
DOS Computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq, Tandy, and millions of others are by far the most popular, with about 70 million machines in use worldwide. Macintosh fans, on the other hand, may note that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans, and that numbers alone do not denote a higher life form. -- New York Times, November 26, 1991
     
Chuckit
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 21, 2002, 03:11 AM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by manofsteel300:
<strong>speaking of legality..

if im not mistaken, even if the EULA "protects" Apple.. since the marketing gave people the impression that it wasnt ever going to go subscription based, a judge might here this case as bait and switch.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Manofsteel300, you really need to shrink your signature. It says in the guidelines right beside the sig box, "Signatures should be no more than 4 linies of text."

And we both know it means "lines." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
Chuck
___
"Instead of either 'multi-talented' or 'multitalented' use 'bisexual'."
     
sambeau
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 21, 2002, 09:00 AM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by essex:<strong>
Possession my ass. Riddle me this: Can you carve your name in the side of your mac.com address? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Well, on the left side of my mac.com address I have carved "sambeau" which is my name. I thought the whole point of an email address was to have your name carved on one side..

yours,

sambeau @ mac . com
     
Brazuca  (op)
Mac Elite
Join Date: Oct 2000
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 21, 2002, 11:09 AM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by sambeau:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by essex:<strong>
Possession my ass. Riddle me this: Can you carve your name in the side of your mac.com address? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Well, on the left side of my mac.com address I have carved "sambeau" which is my name. I thought the whole point of an email address was to have your name carved on one side..

yours,

sambeau @ mac . com</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Touch�
"It's about time trees did something good insted of just standing there LIKE JERKS!" :)
     
 
 
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