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10.2 - Internet Sharing ADSL + HUB - How 2?
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ferg
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Aug 19, 2002, 05:07 PM
 
Seems so simple..CLICK START AND VOILA...no

So I have my G4 and Powerbook both connected to the Hub via ethernet, ADSL modem connected to hub uplink port.

On Powermac : I have the Built-In ethernet set to connect via PPoE

Intenet Sharing Started to share over built-in ethernet...

not sure what to have the network of the powerbook set to...nuthin seems to work.

any suggestions?

so far 10.2 is pretty good.

Thanks
     
noliv
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Aug 19, 2002, 05:15 PM
 
In the network prefs of the second Mac,

Ethernet:
router: the IP of your first Mac
-noliv
     
ferg  (op)
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Aug 19, 2002, 05:26 PM
 
What goes in the IP and Subnet mask(assuming it is manual)?

is there anything else I have to do on the G4 aside from clicking start?

Thanks again
     
CarpetFluff
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Aug 19, 2002, 05:42 PM
 
I'm confused!

They are both conected to an ethernet hub? and the hub is connected to an ethernet modem? Does they modem have a DHCP server? (most of them do) in which case surely both machines just need to be switched to DHCP in the Network panel!?

I thought internet sharing is only for people who's machines connect via one of the machines internal modems or a USB modem. The whole point of a hub and uplink is to give both machines direct access to the connection!?
If it rained soup I'd have a fork in my hand!
     
kennethmac2000
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Aug 19, 2002, 05:54 PM
 
Originally posted by CarpetFluff:
I'm confused!

They are both conected to an ethernet hub? and the hub is connected to an ethernet modem? Does they modem have a DHCP server? (most of them do) in which case surely both machines just need to be switched to DHCP in the Network panel!?

I thought internet sharing is only for people who's machines connect via one of the machines internal modems or a USB modem. The whole point of a hub and uplink is to give both machines direct access to the connection!?
Yeah, but what IP address is each machine going to have? Generally with a consumer DSL/cable service you get one public IP, which you then must share using NAT between all the private IPs on your LAN.
     
ferg  (op)
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Aug 19, 2002, 09:49 PM
 
correct, it is an ethernet ADSL modem(enternet speedstream). It is connected to the hub, but I need to connect to my service provider through PPPoE(thus setting my TCP/IP to connect via PPP and specifying DNS #s)

Perhaps Apple's Internet sharing does not work in this case. That would be unfortunate, I hope not.

Your help is appreciated.
     
Detrius
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Aug 19, 2002, 11:50 PM
 
Ya'll are forgetting that Jaguar is using the built in DHCP server for internet connection sharing. So, the only thing (I repeat ONLY) you have to do on the clients is set them to DHCP. Everything else is set automatically.
ACSA 10.4/10.3, ACTC 10.3, ACHDS 10.3
     
CarpetFluff
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Aug 20, 2002, 02:32 AM
 
ferg, is this cleared up now?

All I can tell you is what I have, my Ethernet modem 'itself' connects using PPPoa and the machines which are connected to it via a hub are just set to DHCP. I don't think you need to set either mac to use PPPoa just DHCP, Internet connection sharing doesn't need to be on because neither machine is sharing the internet, in effect the modem is acting as a third machine which if you like is already sharing it's connection.
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CarpetFluff
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Aug 20, 2002, 02:39 AM
 
Originally posted by kennethmac2000:


Yeah, but what IP address is each machine going to have? Generally with a consumer DSL/cable service you get one public IP, which you then must share using NAT between all the private IPs on your LAN.
To answer your question, the modem's DHCP server dynamically assigns all machines on the LAN with a unique IP address or you can set them to be static. If you choose the dynamic option then any machine you plug in which is set to look for a DHCP host will be given it's own address by the modem.
If it rained soup I'd have a fork in my hand!
     
noliv
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Aug 20, 2002, 04:03 AM
 
But some modem (mine) deny several macs to access to the internet. the DHCP server in the modem only attributes 1 access.

In my case (I didn't know that OSX10.2 has a DHCP server), my settings are like that:


1 Hub with 2 Macs and the modem connected to it

1st Mac: gets the ethernet parameters from DHCP.
I wait it to show me which settings the DHCP server (the modem) gives.

It always gives that:
ip: 192.168.1.2
subnet: 255.255.255.0
router: 192.168.1.1 (it's the modem)

then i check internet sharing on and start internet sharing.


2nd Mac: I set it manualy to:
ip: 192.168.1.3
subnet: 255.255.255.0 the 2 macs have to be on the same subnet in order to see each other
router: 192.168.1.2 (the 1st mac)



Now that Detrius told us that OSX10.2 has a DHCP server included to share the connection, these settings will change, but maybe it can help someone to understand what to do...
-noliv
     
ferg  (op)
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Aug 20, 2002, 08:10 AM
 
No Luck yet.

DHCP setting is not working for me, it is self assigning an IP, it seems it is not seeing any connection...I would have thought there would be something to signal it detecting a connection.

I cannot set both to DHCP as i have to have the PPPoE settings on one to connect. (I think the ADSL type is G-Lite, not a true DSL implementation...I think...I used to be Marketing Manager of the ISP)...I do not know if this makes a difference.

Thanks for all your input, it would seem it is working for some, I will keep trying, any other input is most welcome.


Regards
     
noliv
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Aug 20, 2002, 08:44 AM
 
You have 1 Mac connected to the internet and with internet sharing on, 1 other Mac with network settings on DHCP, and it still doesn't work ?

Does File sharing work?

Have you tried to set manually the second Mac like I did ?
It should work, but maybe there's a problem with DNS...
On the Mac which have access to the internet, go to the terminal and type "ping www.apple.com" (for example)
it will tell you the IP address of apple's website, then on the second Mac, in your browser, go to http://theIPaddressOFapple.com
it's just to see if you realy can't access to the web or if it's a DNS problem.
-noliv
     
ferg  (op)
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Aug 20, 2002, 09:12 AM
 
I have 1 Mac connected to the internet and with internet sharing on, 1 other Mac with network settings on DHCP, and it still doesn't work

Hmmm... The file sharing doesn't work as it will not let me turn Appletalk on while using PPPoE...I cannot set up a local network either...it is like the DSL takes over the networking completely. I cannot set it up manually as you did as I have to have the PPPoE settings.

Tried the ping, no dice, it just cannot see the network, is it possible to have the G4 setup to logon over PPPoE and have a local network set up as well?

This is making me feel like a right arse, perhaps it is just not possible over this form of DSL. IF so I am sure it would be much simpler.

*SHEESH!*

What a puzzle!
     
piracy
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Aug 20, 2002, 09:44 AM
 
Holy.
F*cking.
Crap.

I cannot BELIEVE this thread has been floating around for this long and no one has yet to give him the correct answer.

YOU NEED TWO ETHERNET CARDS IN YOUR POWER MAC to do what you're trying to do. One would be hooked up to your DSL modem, and your PowerBook (or hub, etc) would be hanging off the other one.

One ethernet interface can't do both!

More detail: your first ethernet interface, let's say the built-in one, would get its connection normally from your internet provider...the same way you always do. Your second ethernet interface would share this connection to one or more machines (the Internet Sharing pane will make a lot more sense once you have another card...you'll specify that you share your connection obtained on "Built-in Ethernet" over the ethernet card called, say, "Ethernet (PCI Slot 1)"). Your PowerBook, then, would be set to ethernet using DHCP and would automatically pick up a private address. You need TWO DISTINCT INTERFACES, like modem and ethernet, airport and ethernet, ethernet and ethernet, etc, to do what you're trying to do. (This is because you are routing traffic between the interfaces. You cannot route with one interface. Ever notice how ALL home router/firewall devices have TWO ethernet interfaces, e.g. WAN and LAN? It is for precisely this reason.)

Further note: if you don't want to buy an Ethernet card, another alternative would be to get an AirPort card for both the Power Mac and the PowerBook, and share your DSL connection over AirPort on the Power Mac. Your PowerBook would then share your connection, but would be doing it wirelessly. This option would require purchasing two AirPort cards, however, if you don't already have one; the previous option would just require purchasing an OS X-compatible PCI ethernet card (if you bought the hub for this purpose, you actually don't need it if you only plan on having these two machines...return it and get a PCI ethernet card instead).

Yes, 10.2's Internet Sharing *is* as easy and awesome as you think it is...share ANY connection to ANY other connection - modem to airport, airport to ethernet, etc. - with the click of ONE BUTTON! This is amazing, people! BUT, Internet Sharing can't work magic...you still need the right tools for the job.
( Last edited by piracy; Aug 20, 2002 at 10:14 AM. )
     
Cipher13
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Aug 20, 2002, 10:13 AM
 
Originally posted by piracy:
Holy.
F*cking.
Crap.

I cannot BELIEVE this thread has been floating around for this long and no one has yet to give him the correct answer.

YOU NEED TWO ETHERNET CARDS IN YOUR POWER MAC to do what you're trying to do. One would be hooked up to your DSL modem, and your PowerBook (or hub, etc) would be hanging off the other one.

One ethernet interface can't do both!
That is totally untrue.

One interface CAN do both, without any problems at all.

Having two is optimal for security purposes, but that's about it. Even speed isn't really hit that hard by having both interfaces on the one card (net speed isn't - local traffic might be).

I used to have my 5500 with OS9 run as a router, with a single NIC - given location problems, just tonight I changed that and made the iMac, running 10.2, the router.

That way the machine can run 24/7 rather than 24/6 (nevermind the reasons, unimportant).

Anyway - I didn't use the built in "click me!" thing for 10.2 - I don't like DHCP, and it wasn't very self-explanatory. I didn't fancy having to change all my settings around.

Here's what I did, and what I recommend you do:

1. Download geeRoute from versiontracker and install.

Set your clients up as follows:

Gateway: 192.168.150.1
Subnet: 255.255.255.0
IP: 192.168.150.x where 1 < x < 255

Done.

Now, theoretically, anyway.

I don't like that addressing scheme. Editing /usr/local/bin/router, I changed the subnet to 255.255.255.128 and the addressing to 10.0.0.x. Faster to type, and it's interchangeable with my IPNetRouter settings. The 5500 can take over the routing job with no change to the clients at all. But that isn't important for you right now.

Now, I had a few problems with this. I assume they're 10.2 incompatibilities.

After much frustration, I altered the router config as above; still didn't work for me.

What ended up making the difference was disabling IPv6. Odd, I know. Oh well.

I also had to delete two extra occurences of "GATEWAY= -YES-" in hostconfig, which I think were causing problems.

After I initially installed geeRoute, it worked, then stopped working. Running it again must have added those lines.

Of course, the other option is to simply alter the geeRoute script so it doesn't even bother checking your hostconfig, but eh. Don't worry about that either.

Basically what I'm saying is install geeRoute; it should work if you follow the instructions. If it doesn't, post back, and I'll fix it for you.

Forget the 10.2 method for now unless you wanna do wireless.
     
piracy
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Aug 20, 2002, 10:17 AM
 
Originally posted by Cipher13:
That is totally untrue.

One interface CAN do both, without any problems at all.
Sure, you can do a lot of stuff with one interface. I'm suggesting the second card not for security, but for ease of use. Install it, click one button. Done. (Why would having his other machine have a DHCP-assigned private address be a problem?)

Good luck getting single interface routing set up for him...
     
ferg  (op)
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Aug 20, 2002, 10:18 AM
 
I'll give that a try, and post reply

Thanks

(if not, I'll just get another NIC, are there any reccommendations for one with 10.2?)
     
piracy
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Aug 20, 2002, 10:31 AM
 
Originally posted by piracy:


Sure, you can do a lot of stuff with one interface. I'm suggesting the second card not for security, but for ease of use. Install it, click one button. Done. (Why would having his other machine have a DHCP-assigned private address be a problem?)

Good luck getting single interface routing set up for him...
By the way, to anyone else interested: the only reason you might be able to use single interface routing is *still* because there is a second interface, albeit a virtual one. In this case, PPPoE makes the default interface ppp0, leaving eth0 "available" for routed traffic. When you ROUTE, you do it between TWO interfaces...whether real or virtual. If you had a straight IP connection on eth0, for example, there would be NO (correct) WAY to route traffic via one physical interface (without violating RFCs).

The right way to do this is to get a second ethernet card. That's not my opinion, just a fact. If you really, really, want to avoid buying anything else, try Cipher13's method...but be advised NAT may have some limitations between ppp0 and eth0 on one interface.
     
Cipher13
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Aug 20, 2002, 10:42 AM
 
Ease of use? It's easier to set it up using one physical interface than it is to use two...

Why not use DHCP? Because I know the way I'm describing works - none of this is theoretical. I want to keep it that way. And it's easier when it comes to file sharing via IP et al to have a static addy.

Anyway, that's the whole point - one physical interface with virtual interfaces (en0:1, or whatever you want to call them). There's no limitation to it, it's just like a second interface.

Your supposed "right" way to do this is no fact, don't fool yourself - it's your way.

It is the best way, yes - but this is no heavy duty network. I never denied it's the best way.

You claimed it was NECESSARY to have two NIC's - it is not.

It can be done with one, and no luck will be needed doing so, unless PPPoE decides to play up like the useless POS it is
     
kennethmac2000
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Aug 20, 2002, 10:44 AM
 
Originally posted by piracy:
Sure, you can do a lot of stuff with one interface. I'm suggesting the second card not for security, but for ease of use.
You shouted at everyone, and I quote, "YOU NEED TWO ETHERNET CARDS IN YOUR POWER MAC". You also followed that up with the remark, "One ethernet interface can't do both!" That was clearly garbage. Why not just admit it?

Originally posted by CarpetFluff:
To answer your question, the modem's DHCP server dynamically assigns all machines on the LAN with a unique IP address or you can set them to be static. If you choose the dynamic option then any machine you plug in which is set to look for a DHCP host will be given it's own address by the modem.
Now that that's over...

The DHCP server on the modem is there simply to provide a directly connected machine with an IP address in the event of Internet connectivity being lost so that you can still access the modem's web interface. It is not designed to supply multiple machines on a LAN with IP addresses.

If you did use your modem's DHCP server to supply your machines with IP addresses, what router address would you expect to use? You can't use a router anywhere on the Internet because your machines don't have public IP addresses, so you need a router on the LAN. A hub is not a router. Hence, you need either a hardware router or a software alternative such as Mac OS X 10.2's Internet Sharing.
     
CarpetFluff
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Aug 20, 2002, 11:08 AM
 
Originally posted by kennethmac2000:


You shouted at everyone, and I quote, "YOU NEED TWO ETHERNET CARDS IN YOUR POWER MAC". You also followed that up with the remark, "One ethernet interface can't do both!" That was clearly garbage. Why not just admit it?



Now that that's over...

The DHCP server on the modem is there simply to provide a directly connected machine with an IP address in the event of Internet connectivity being lost so that you can still access the modem's web interface. It is not designed to supply multiple machines on a LAN with IP addresses.

If you did use your modem's DHCP server to supply your machines with IP addresses, what router address would you expect to use? You can't use a router anywhere on the Internet because your machines don't have public IP addresses, so you need a router on the LAN. A hub is not a router. Hence, you need either a hardware router or a software alternative such as Mac OS X 10.2's Internet Sharing.
You're probably right, I never claimed to be an expert just trying to help the guy out and keep the post bumped up till one of you 'experts' can wade in with the answer.

I'm not really clear what kind of modem he has actually, I thought there were really only 2 kinds, router modems and USB types. Mine is a router modem (an Alcatel 510) which is probably where my confusion lies, it's DHCP server is designed to support multiple machines.

I think it's winding Piracy up so much he'll offer to go round and fix it himself anyway
If it rained soup I'd have a fork in my hand!
     
ferg  (op)
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Aug 20, 2002, 11:16 AM
 
That would be nice...cept I'm in Bermuda...long way from anything
     
piracy
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Aug 20, 2002, 11:41 AM
 
Originally posted by Cipher13:
Ease of use? It's easier to set it up using one physical interface than it is to use two...

Why not use DHCP? Because I know the way I'm describing works - none of this is theoretical. I want to keep it that way. And it's easier when it comes to file sharing via IP et al to have a static addy.

Anyway, that's the whole point - one physical interface with virtual interfaces (en0:1, or whatever you want to call them). There's no limitation to it, it's just like a second interface.

Your supposed "right" way to do this is no fact, don't fool yourself - it's your way.

It is the best way, yes - but this is no heavy duty network. I never denied it's the best way.

You claimed it was NECESSARY to have two NIC's - it is not.
Holy cripes. Take 15 minutes to go to work and look what happens.

Anyway, you're right, I should have qualified my original statemant by saying something like "you need two ethernet cards (unless you want to do a bunch of quasi-questionable wrangling - yes, interfaces are interfaces whether virtual or physical)". But, I didn't say that. The cleanest, best way to do this - security or no - is with another ethernet card.

It can be done with one, and no luck will be needed doing so, unless PPPoE decides to play up like the useless POS it is
That's exactly the kind of problem I'm talking about, btw...and it's not just PPPoE, it's doing nat between ppp and ethernet *on the same interface*...it's not exactly the best solution.

So, if you just want me to say it: no, you don't NEED two ethernet cards, but if you want to do it in such a way that is reliable and predictable, get another ethernet card.
     
ferg  (op)
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Aug 20, 2002, 12:11 PM
 
ok, tried the GeeRoute...with the basic settings and instructions, I had installed this already and not been able to get it to work.

still no dice...

Any suggestions of what to check Cypher?

Thanks
     
Cipher13
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Aug 20, 2002, 10:05 PM
 
Originally posted by ferg:
ok, tried the GeeRoute...with the basic settings and instructions, I had installed this already and not been able to get it to work.

still no dice...

Any suggestions of what to check Cypher?

Thanks
Okay, did you set up the client machines as per my suggestions?

Do you have both machines hooked into the hub?

Can the 'router' machine get online?

If 'yes' to all of the above, then do this:

1. open your terminal

2. type 'pico /etc/hostconfig' without the speech marks.

Tell me how many 'GATEWAY=-YES-' statements are present. If there are too many then after that, I'll get you to 'sudo pico /etc/hostconfig' and delete any extra ones that are down the bottom. There should only be one.

While you're in there, set 'IPv6' to 'NO' (this does seem to have an effect, I'm not gonna try to explain it), and make sure that IPFORWARDING=-YES-.

If it doesn't, make it so.

Try that, and report back.
     
ferg  (op)
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Aug 20, 2002, 11:21 PM
 
uh...whoa dude...

never used the terminal b4, so it was a little daunting...still feel nautious

There was one Gateway but it looked like this:

GATEWAY=-YES-CUPS=-YES-

IPV6=-YES-
IPFORWARDING=-YES-

but I did not know how to save the changes...wouldn't let me overwrite, rename, anything.

Perhaps if you could step me though that...but it looks as if everything is ok save for the IPV6 thingy..

thanks again
     
Cipher13
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Aug 20, 2002, 11:42 PM
 
Sorry 'bout that.

Well, theres no need really, because it looks okay.

For future reference, you couldn't save the changes because you don't have permission - hence the 'sudo pico' thing, which opens pico with root privelages.

To exit - control-x, then hit 'y' to save, or 'n' not to, and enter.

You may as well disable IPv6 and try it. Worked for me. I'm not gonna try to understand it.

sudo pico /etc/hostconfig

Turn the 'YES' next to IPv6 into a 'NO', control-x, and save. That's it.

Then reboot and check it out.

Make sure your client setup is as follows:

IP: 192.168.150.2 for eg
Subnet: 255.255.255.0
Router/Gateway: 192.168.150.1

DNS addresses must also be entered. I didn't mention that before, sorry. Get them from your router machine and enter the same numbers on the clients (DNS = Domain Name Server). That's more likely the problem than the IPv6 thing which I still don't get. Try entering the DNS first.
     
daceaser
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Aug 21, 2002, 03:28 AM
 
That's still not a great solution.

You can multiple IP addresses bound to one network adapter, easily. I'm not sure if this will work in 10.1.5, but it works in Jag:

On the Mac attached to your DSL modem:

Go into your network preferences pane.
Select Show: Network Port Configurations.
Click New.
Give the new port a name like Private LAN.
Select your Ethernet port from the popup menu. Click OK.
Select Show: <name of your new port>
Fill out the ethernet settings with ones valid for a private network, such as 192.128.5.1. Don't specify a router address.

You now have two IP addresses on your network interface on your Mac connected to the ADSL. Set up your other Mac so that its on the same IP subnet as your new IP address on your main Mac.

Download IPNetShareX from Sustainable Softworks. It's free.

Configure it so that your external interface is your original network port on your main Mac, and the internal interface is the new one on your main Mac.
--
James Milne
     
ferg  (op)
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Aug 21, 2002, 09:18 AM
 
That got it!

Wheeww...that was waaaaay harder than it should have been...I wonder why Apple's does not work that way, it seems pretty close...

Thanks for your help everyone!

Cheers.
     
ferg  (op)
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Aug 21, 2002, 09:33 AM
 
Hmmm...think I spoke too soon...it went to my default home page(yahoo) but will not go anywhere else...cleared the cache, still goes there...weird...
     
ferg  (op)
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Aug 21, 2002, 09:37 AM
 
OK, this is really weird, I can ping apple and my web site with no problem, but it just sits when trying to go anywhere in the browser....
     
ferg  (op)
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Aug 21, 2002, 10:01 AM
 
ok...its working now...don't know what happened...

Thanks again all...
     
zac4mac
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Aug 21, 2002, 10:19 AM
 
Thanks to all who contributed to this post. I installed Jag on my duallie and iBook last nite and with this post, got up and running on my iBook in about 5 minutes. Couldn't wait for Apple to ship my order, should be here in a few days tho. Well worth the price, everybody should buy X.2, this is the OS X I've been waiting for - way to go Apple!

DP550 w/ Airport card on ADSL modem(E-net, Cisco 678)
iBook 600 w/ Airport

Z
     
   
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