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firstian · May 16, 2002, 10:54 PM

I seem to remember someone in the forum suggested putting some kind of car clear coat finish on TiBook to protect the paint. Does anyone remember what it was? Any comments, pictures? Are there any long term side effects?

skyman · May 16, 2002, 11:47 PM

Originally posted by firstian:
I seem to remember someone in the forum suggested putting some kind of car clear coat finish on TiBook to protect the paint. Does anyone remember what it was? Any comments, pictures? Are there any long term side effects?

Did you try doing a forum search for "clear coat"?

jwtseng · May 17, 2002, 12:23 AM

Easy, skyman....No problem firstian...

I use a non-wax containing acrylic based polish called "Liquid Glass". I believe you can go to www.liquidglass.com and read about it yourself. It is available at various places like Pep Boys.

I have used it since my first Ti400. It basically bonds to any non-porous surface and protects it by imparting the hardness of acrylic. You apply it by spreading a thin layer of it with a cloth. Then you let it "dry" or haze over. Then you buff it off. It's also somewhat important to let it sort of "bake" in sunlight a *little*. Anyways, the more coats you apply, the silkier your Titanium will feel and the more "mirror-like" your finish will be. It's really a huge difference in outward appearance. Cut down on fingerprinting and smudging...and not a single errant scratch since day one.

sterfry · May 17, 2002, 12:47 AM

Do you have some pictures of your 'top in a well lighted area? I keep scratching my PB on the bottom and I think I'll need to touch it up soon.
I just want to know how different it looks, I really, really like the PB finish as it is...

msykes · May 17, 2002, 02:06 AM

Originally posted by sterfry:
Do you have some pictures of your 'top in a well lighted area? I keep scratching my PB on the bottom and I think I'll need to touch it up soon.
I just want to know how different it looks, I really, really like the PB finish as it is...

Hmmm, pictures would be great. No problems with my new Ti yet, but that sounds like the type of finish that I might prefer regardless. Must play havoc with the warranty though!

Maybe it will help airport reception :-) :-)

Big Mac · May 17, 2002, 02:12 AM

Would this work on the iBook finish as well? I wish I had protected my 466 because I want to keep it for a long time in the best possible condition.

msykes · May 17, 2002, 02:30 AM

Originally posted by Big Mac:
Would this work on the iBook finish as well? I wish I had protected my 466 because I want to keep it for a long time in the best possible condition.

I thought those old toilet seat iBooks were indestructable! Something similar might work, I know a lot of people (by a lot I mean a few) people painted their Lombard/Wallstreet series 'Books, with some form of paint that bonded to the plastic for a very durable finish. Sorry, but don't have any of the links handy.

Big Mac · May 17, 2002, 02:47 AM

Originally posted by msykes:


I thought those old toilet seat iBooks were indestructable! Something similar might work, I know a lot of people (by a lot I mean a few) people painted their Lombard/Wallstreet series 'Books, with some form of paint that bonded to the plastic for a very durable finish. Sorry, but don't have any of the links handy.

My iBook is very strong, but I have a bunch of hairline scratches on the snow finish. (Remember, the original iBooks had a duller finish; scratches weren't noticable because it had a dull marble appearance. I much prefer the look of my machine, but visible scratching at certain angles is a tradeoff.)

firstian · May 17, 2002, 08:28 AM

Originally posted by jwtseng:
Easy, skyman....No problem firstian...

I use a non-wax containing acrylic based polish called "Liquid Glass". I believe you can go to www.liquidglass.com and read about it yourself. It is available at various places like Pep Boys.

I have used it since my first Ti400. It basically bonds to any non-porous surface and protects it by imparting the hardness of acrylic. You apply it by spreading a thin layer of it with a cloth. Then you let it "dry" or haze over. Then you buff it off. It's also somewhat important to let it sort of "bake" in sunlight a *little*. Anyways, the more coats you apply, the silkier your Titanium will feel and the more "mirror-like" your finish will be. It's really a huge difference in outward appearance. Cut down on fingerprinting and smudging...and not a single errant scratch since day one.

A couple more questions: how long does it take for the coating to cure? What do you use to buff it, and how long does it need to bake? Why does it need to be baked? Did you find dust settling on the coating before it cures to be a problem? Finally, any pictures?

Ti X · May 17, 2002, 10:34 AM

You know...there is a product made by 3M called ScotchCal that is an extremely thin film of plastic which is used to protect cars from rock chips. The only problem is that you need to spray a water/alchol solution on the painted surface to apply. But, I suppose that you could take apart the screen and apply it to metal casing. As for the bottom, who cares if it gets scratched? This should be really easy the more I think about it, although, it is made for smooth paint surfaces and headlights. I think that the paint may be too rough, and it might not look right.

I'll let someone else try it first.

gravy · May 17, 2002, 12:54 PM

Originally posted by Ti X:
You know...there is a product made by 3M called ScotchCal that is an extremely thin film of plastic which is used to protect cars from rock chips. The only problem is that you need to spray a water/alchol solution on the painted surface to apply. But, I suppose that you could take apart the screen and apply it to metal casing. As for the bottom, who cares if it gets scratched? This should be really easy the more I think about it, although, it is made for smooth paint surfaces and headlights. I think that the paint may be too rough, and it might not look right.

I'll let someone else try it first.

Well I think you might be a little off.
I work in a sign shop where we have used scotchcal film
It is a thin vinyl, not nesscessarily clear, that you
print decals on. They use a lot of it on the cars and buses
that are "wrapped" with advertising.
You might be thinking of something else by 3m as they
are the Gods of coatings and films.

Ti X · May 17, 2002, 01:10 PM

No, I am not off. Here you go! http://www.xpel.com/paint/applications.html

or http://www.xpel.com/paint/scotchal.html

[ 05-17-2002: Message edited by: Ti X ]

[ 05-17-2002: Message edited by: Ti X ]

k2man · May 17, 2002, 04:36 PM

Jwtseng,

Would love to see a pic of your treated Ti, can you upload one? Much appreciated...

gravy · May 17, 2002, 05:33 PM

I stand somewhat corrected.
Though it really just amounts to
shrinkwrapping your ti in clear plastic.
It is really just a sticker. I certainly
wouldn't do this to either my expensive car
or my expensive computer.

jwtseng · May 17, 2002, 07:47 PM

Hello everyone! Unfortunately, I'm stuck at work today until well after the sun goes down. I'll snap some shots of my Titanium top as soon as I can and post a link to them here for everyone to see.

So far, I've applied about 10 coats of Liquid Glass to my Titanium. The surface is definitely more "reflective" now and it actually feels "harder" like when you tap your fingernail on a chicken egg. It doesn't attract as many fingerprints now and there definitely aren't any scratches.

It takes about 15 minutes for each coat. I allow about 20 minutes to "cure". The more coats the shinier it gets!

I'll have those pics up soon!

iChristopher · May 17, 2002, 08:28 PM

Originally posted by jwtseng:

So far, I've applied about 10 coats of Liquid Glass to my Titanium.
I'll have those pics up soon!

Good grief, man! Your titanium must be growing after 10 coats.

Is 10 coats the suggested application, or have you been sniffing the liquid glass too much?

urrl5201 · May 18, 2002, 07:56 AM

I am hot for this. I may buy some and test it on the bottom of the battery today. If all is well then the bottom of the Ti, then the sides. The top of my old 500 seemed impervious to scratches as long as I was careful; when I sold it there were no scratches on top. So I may leave that alone unless I catch multi-coat fever like jwtseng posted.

urrl5201 · May 18, 2002, 02:34 PM

I think over time the finish, especially the white areas like hinges suffer oxidation. After a year I could actually take my thumbnail and scrape the hinge paint to the bare metal quite easily. It makes sense that a finish sealing wax like Liquid Glass may actually work to prevent oxidation.
I have already purchased the wax and applied it, cautiously at first on the battery cover, and seeing no ill effects, on the entire bottom of the Ti. The finish seemed a very slight bit shinier, but I doubt if any Apple tech could tell any difference. I then used the wax quite liberally all over the Ti, even on the white Apple light on top of the lid, noticing some streaking. However this was easily remedied by applying a bit of wax on the transparent Apple logo and buffing it off quickly while the wax was still wet. So now my Ti looks slightly better than new and hopefully is sealed from oxidation. I like this stuff, but time will tell. At least I have plenty left for waxing my car...

Of couse, anyone considering such an undertaking should be warned not to get any wax on the LCD display.

jwtseng · May 18, 2002, 03:47 PM

Still working on getting those photos...

The finish does get "shinier" and harder feeling with a few more coats. There is no obvious layering of the coating...I think of it more as further bonding of the acrylic to the surface.

yuliang · May 18, 2002, 05:32 PM

are there any unforeseen negative side effects of doing this?

jwtseng · May 18, 2002, 06:45 PM

In a word...No.

It's not like there is a visible buildup of residue with multiple coatings. Since I only use it on the screen half of the Titanium, I don't think it will affect heat distribution or anything. Apply a few more coats and you will begin to see what I mean. Feel the top of your Titanium now and then see what it feels like after a few more coats...

DJ Ed White · May 18, 2002, 07:05 PM

Doesn't it bother anyone that people have to take such steps to protect their computer? This was not an issue with the previous G3 series Powerbooks...
http://ems.music.uiuc.edu/p/photo.ph...tive_Powerbook

surfratt · May 18, 2002, 07:20 PM

Is this a sealant? How does it effect heat? Does it allow the heat to escape or does it contain the heat?? Those who have used this please elaborate. I am afraid that if this does not allow the heat to escape that it may harm the internals.

jwtseng · May 18, 2002, 07:48 PM

Ed:

I don't think that my obsessive caretaking of my Titanium indicates any fault on Apple's part. Is this what you are intimating? I just happen to like doting over my treasures. I realize that you have had horrible paint problems with your machine, but I have to believe that your case is extreme and the numbers of affected machines are probably few and far in between.

Scratches and blemishes are inevitable. They just happen to be more noticeable on the flat expanse if the TiBook's surfaces. What I do with the polish is for my own edification and the outward appearance of my machine. I believe (and the product so claims) that the treated surface will be *more* resistant to scratches caused by wayward objects. Would it prevent something like your flaking, chipping, bubbling paint? Probably not.

So is it Apple's fault that I feel like I have to treat my Titanium with care, and polish its surface with a soft cloth now and then, and be careful where and next to who I set it down??? The only thing Apple is guilty of here is creating this machine that is so powerful that it screams to be used and yet yearns to be taken care of and truly treasured.

BTW, do you remember how the rubberized portions of the G3 PB's (Wallstreet, Mainstreet, Pismo, Lombard, etc) just seemed to rub off on some machines with use??? I think eventually we are going to see someone who just says to-hell-with-it-all and strips the Titanium completely devoid of its paint and repaints or refinishes the surface. It's not all bad. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't mind seeing someone try that Kameleon paint you have listed on your web page. Now I understand why some people always seem to be polishing their cars...

[ 05-18-2002: Message edited by: jwtseng ]

DJ Ed White · May 18, 2002, 08:05 PM

I'd like to see a photo of the clearcoat. I've done it with other items...bikes, the turntables on my website, etc. It actually seems like a decent idea for the Ti....

urrl5201 · May 19, 2002, 12:55 AM

I have just given my Ti a second coat. I think the surface feels smoother to the touch but there are no visible ill effects. It still looks brand new. I never thought I would be crazy enough to do this with my own brand new Ti, but I have a feeling it will pay off in the long run.

mrmister · May 19, 2002, 01:19 AM

With people who are doing this--are there parts of the Ti you are not coationg (other than the LCD)? Does it work on the carbon-fiber elements?

urrl5201 · May 19, 2002, 08:43 AM

I coat EVERYTHING but the keys and the screen. Even the trackpad got a coat, but care must be taken to avoid applying wax into the cracks and speaker holes. Any streaking (like on the top Apple lid light) can be removed by applying more and buffing quickly before it dries. However a good terry cloth can remove excess wax from cracks during buffing. Use a little common sense where the DVD slot is concerned. Do not apply into the slot where the foam rubber barrier is.

[ 05-19-2002: Message edited by: urrl5201 ]

urrl5201 · May 20, 2002, 10:14 AM

Another word of caution; wax buildup in the speaker holes may cause volume loss or is it just my imagination?. Anyone planning on using this wax should keep it away from the speaker holes. The dried wax turns white in the speaker holes and is hard to clean out.

[ 05-20-2002: Message edited by: urrl5201 ]

iChristopher · May 20, 2002, 01:06 PM

You put it on the Trackpad? I thought the stuff was intended for application over painted surfaces?

What benefit do you get from applying it to the trackpad??

Originally posted by urrl5201:
I coat EVERYTHING but the keys and the screen. Even the trackpad got a coat, but care must be taken to avoid applying wax into the cracks and speaker holes. Any streaking (like on the top Apple lid light) can be removed by applying more and buffing quickly before it dries. However a good terry cloth can remove excess wax from cracks during buffing. Use a little common sense where the DVD slot is concerned. Do not apply into the slot where the foam rubber barrier is.

[ 05-19-2002: Message edited by: urrl5201 ]

urrl5201 · May 21, 2002, 12:34 AM

I have heard quite a few reports of the trackpad developing a shiney spot after heavy use. The trackpad is unhurt so who cares. Time will tell if it makes a difference. I just refuse to let this new machine end up like my 500 Mhz Ti, looking so bad that I had to customize it by removing hinge paint completely.
http://homepage.mac.com/bhardy3/PhotoAlbum3.html

I would rather try SOMETHING to prevent it, even if it doesn't work. Sometimes pioneering a thing has it's reward; sometimes not. I am willing to take a chance.

A dry brush cleared out the wax in the speaker holes.

[ 05-21-2002: Message edited by: urrl5201 ]

Danni · May 22, 2002, 07:52 PM

I put one of those screen protectors you use on Palm and Visor handhelds on my trackpad. You can only see that it is there under certain lighting and I prefer the texture of the screen protector to the original trackpad. I have had the protector on my trackpad for at least 3 months, and it comes off easily with no residue.

Just a thought for some of you to try.

Danni

[ 05-22-2002: Message edited by: Danni ]

mrmister · May 23, 2002, 01:06 AM

Oh, that is a good idea! I like that...I will have to try.

1 · May 23, 2002, 01:37 AM

What is wrong with you guys? The trackpad gets shiny, and that's a problem? It's called USE.

Did you buy a computer that you will actually use, or a museum piece? Sheesh.

atomium · May 23, 2002, 09:36 AM

Originally posted by 1:
Did you buy a computer that you will actually use, or a museum piece? Sheesh.

Ummmm....both. Isn't that the point of buying a Mac?

-atomium

1 · May 23, 2002, 12:03 PM

I suppose so, but clearcoating the trackpad just seems a tad like overkill. I like the sheen my trackpad gets after some use - like wearing in your ball glove.

Different strokes I guess...

Tarabella · Jun 4, 2002, 08:46 PM

It seems that the texture of the TiBook (both the palm rest area and the trackpad) is very susceptible to developing shiny polished spots after continued use.

Mine got so bad I tried to get it fixed under warranty. Apple made me take it by a dealer to confirm how bad it was. They agreed, but ultimately said "tough luck". Wear and tear, etc.

I never had this problem with 3 different black G3 vintage PowerBooks (Wallstreet, Lombard, Pismo). But the Ti trackpad became almost unusable, as my finger would skip across it, rather than slide across it.

I discovered a very low tech solution that really works.

Clear Contact paper.

For $4.00 I bought a 9 foot long by 18 inch wide roll of Con-Tact paper. I applied it to the entire surface of the Powerbook (below the keyboard) even covering the trackpad and trackpad button. I used a sharp Xacto knife to trim in between the titanium palm rest and the painted edge. (It is a little bit tacky for the first day of use, but that goes away quickly.)

It completely eliminates the possibility of developing a shiny spot, and can be removed at any time. It is also completely clear.

Scoo · Jun 4, 2002, 09:42 PM

I recall seeing a few Wallstreet and Pismo machines with the finish completely stripped off. Instead of using touch-up paint on nicks and scratches, a few brave souls used a dremel or similar tool to make naked PowerBooks. Is anyone here aware of any TiBooks getting a similar treatment?

On a related note:
The paint surface issue is why I will probably be opting for the iBook 700 instead of the 667 TiBook in a month or two. How wide spread is this problem (as in percentage of units shipped with signifigant paint flaking)?

JLFanboy · Jun 5, 2002, 02:05 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by 1:
Did you buy a computer that you will actually use, or a museum piece? Sheesh.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ummmm....both. Isn't that the point of buying a Mac?

-atomium

<hr /></blockquote>

euphras · Jun 5, 2002, 02:27 PM

Hey, i would like to see some pic�s of machines (Ti�s) with polished Ti-surfaces!! Does anybody have links available?

DJ Ed White · Jun 5, 2002, 07:43 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by euphras:
Hey, i would like to see some pic�s of machines (Ti�s) with polished Ti-surfaces!! Does anybody have links available?<hr /></blockquote><a href="http://ems.music.uiuc.edu/p/photo.php?mode=single&dir=Defective_Powerbook&pic= ti09.jpg" target="_blank">http://ems.music.uiuc.edu/p/photo.php?mode=single&dir=Defective_Powerbook&pic= ti09.jpg</a>

That's the closest I can get to a pic of the shiny palmrest. I don't think it's a problem. It's wear. I can't believe that people are complaining about it. My Wallstreet got smoother over time....

neilnet · Jun 6, 2002, 06:12 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> <a href="http://ems.music.uiuc.edu/p/photo.php?mode=single&dir=Defective_Powerbook&pic= ti09.jpg" target="_blank">http://ems.music.uiuc.edu/p/photo.php?mode=single&dir=Defective_Powerbook&pic= ti09.jpg</a>

That's the closest I can get to a pic of the shiny palmrest. I don't think it's a problem. It's wear. I can't believe that people are complaining about it. My Wallstreet got smoother over time....
<hr /></blockquote>Arrgh! It's hideous - hideous I tell you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> To think I nearly bought a Ti yesterday!

Someone tell me that not all Tis go like that - somebody tell me it ain't so!

N

Love Calm Quiet · Jun 6, 2002, 07:08 AM

Hey, guys, I'm sure that those pix represent one *lemon* TiBook.

No way apple could keep selling them if they all went that way.

I *can* imagine, however, that the paint at the front edge above the CD drive could show wear (from friction + sweat) after a long time -- esp if you're the kind that likes to rest hand there +/or in a sweaty environ.

I don't know who posted the pix, but I hope he got it fixed under warranty - clearly a defective item.

urrl5201 · Jun 6, 2002, 07:20 AM

I don't see using the track pad unless it's an emergency. My logitech wireless mouse is the best thing I could have ever done for my Ti. I can right click on items just like Windows, which saves my sanity from being such a long time Windows user, and saves the track pad.

tonewheel · Jul 23, 2002, 11:09 AM

I have always used a mouse with my laptops, now using an Apple Pro Mouse with my Ti.

As far as that picture is concerned, looks like some people type with their hands resting on the computer. Maybe I'm the odd one, but my hands never rest on the computer. And besides, that picture looks like someone was doing something they shouldn't be doing - that kind of wear is not normal.

DJ Ed White · Jul 23, 2002, 09:26 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by tonewheel:
And besides, that picture looks like someone was doing something they shouldn't be doing - that kind of wear is not normal.<hr /></blockquote>Yawn..... Would you happen to have any suggestions as to what I could have possibly done to accelerate the wear on my TiBook? Hmmm?

tonewheel · Jul 24, 2002, 06:53 PM

Don't know. Running a screwdriver back and forth would do the trick...

tonewheel · Jul 24, 2002, 07:00 PM

Seriously, as the owner of a Ti500, this topic has intrigued me. After looking into it, it makes me wonder how long before my Ti begins flaking apart. All I can think is that it must be a combination of constant rubbing from palms, and skin oils and sweat having a corrosive reaction on the finish. As I said earlier, I don't keep my palms on the computer and don't have this problem.

Has this problem occured on any areas of anyones computer where regular hand contact is not an issue?

DJ Ed White · Jul 24, 2002, 09:07 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by tonewheel:
Seriously, as the owner of a Ti500, this topic has intrigued me. After looking into it, it makes me wonder how long before my Ti begins flaking apart. All I can think is that it must be a combination of constant rubbing from palms, and skin oils and sweat having a corrosive reaction on the finish. As I said earlier, I don't keep my palms on the computer and don't have this problem.

Has this problem occured on any areas of anyones computer where regular hand contact is not an issue?<hr /></blockquote>Yes. It's occurred on machines that were several weeks old. In my case, Apple replaced the affected parts. However, it's been 4 weeks since the repair, and the paint is starting to chip on the sides of the machine. I think your Ti500 is fine. This issue is most prominent on the Ti550 and 667's.

KidRed · Jul 24, 2002, 10:31 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by DJ Ed White:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by tonewheel:
Seriously, as the owner of a Ti500, this topic has intrigued me. After looking into it, it makes me wonder how long before my Ti begins flaking apart. All I can think is that it must be a combination of constant rubbing from palms, and skin oils and sweat having a corrosive reaction on the finish. As I said earlier, I don't keep my palms on the computer and don't have this problem.

Has this problem occured on any areas of anyones computer where regular hand contact is not an issue?<hr /></blockquote>Yes. It's occurred on machines that were several weeks old. In my case, Apple replaced the affected parts. However, it's been 4 weeks since the repair, and the paint is starting to chip on the sides of the machine. I think your Ti500 is fine. This issue is most prominent on the Ti550 and 667's.<hr /></blockquote>The DVI 667s? If so what about the DVI 800s? I'm about to buy one (holding out til Sept for possible upgrade) but don't want to buy one thats going to look like that pic.