[generationfourt]

I need to run dual monitors (20.1 + 17) in extended desktop mode on my G4 450 sawtooth. I searched and searched and a lot of people suggested a radeon 8500. I checked them out and apparently you can run dual monitors on an 8500 in twin mode but it really doesnt support extended desktop, is this true?

what are my options? in the searches I ran it really wasn't clear on what options I have with a card... thanks.

edit: also what will support core image?

[spittingangels]

You could run an ATI Radeon 9800 AGP:

http://eshop.macsales.com/item/ATI%2...ies/100435058/

A little pricey, but then you don't need two cards, and you're only occupying your AGP slot and none of your PCI slots.

[IceEnclosure]

you could do the same with a cheaper card I believe.

[reader50]

The 8500 will support extended desktop just fine. However, the 8500 has only one digital output (a DVI port), the other output would be VGA. With a standard DVI -> VGA adapter, the 8500 can support dual VGA monitors.

Core Image requires a Radeon 9600 or higher, or an nVidia 5200 or higher.

[generationfourt]

ok yeah you are right reader50, the 8500 will do extended desktop,

one last question: will there be any performance increase in my G4 overall with a new card?

[ned1]

Originally Posted by generationfourt

...the 8500 will do extended desktop...

There are a few cards that will do that, but, I'd wait at least a month;
Simply 'cause it's June
I've been waiting for this, and hoping that something happens soon. I haven't heard a word since that advert was made.

Right now my 1.4GHz Sawtooth has the ATI 9000 from my FW800 PM in it. I bought a NV 5500 (Flashed) for it but quickly discovered that Core Image cards don't work very well in OS9. So, now the 5500 is in the FW800 and I'm waiting to see what XFX Graphics comes up with. I would like to put a NV 6800 in the FW800 soon, flashed or not, however the Sawtooth still needs to run OS9 ever so often so I think it's stuck with the 9000 for a while. The 5500 worked great in the Sawtooth, using 10.4.x. So, just remember, Core Image cards don't work in OS9 very well. I also found another problem with flashed NV cards.

[generationfourt]

Originally Posted by Tbarr

There are a few cards that will that, but, I'd wait at least a month;
Simply 'cause it's June
I've been waiting for this, and hoping that something happens soon. I haven't heard a word since that advert was made.

Right now my 1.4GHz Sawtooth has the ATI 9000 from my FW800 PM in it. I bought a NV 5500 (Flashed) for it but quickly discovered that Core Image cards don't work very well in OS9. So, now the 5500 is in the FW800 and I'm waiting to see what XFX Graphics comes up with. I would like to put a NV 6800 in the FW800 soon, flashed or not, however the Sawtooth still needs to run OS9 ever so often so I think it's stuck with the 9000 for a while. The 5500 worked great in the Sawtooth, using 10.4.x. So, just remember, Core Image cards don't work in OS9 very well. I also found another problem with flashed NV cards.

how much is that going to be? If it's around $100 bucks I'll wait but I don't see myself spending that much on a video card just for core image. Id rather put money towards the processor/ram...

any more info on the nvidia 5500? cost?

[ned1]

Originally Posted by generationfourt

...more info on the nvidia 5500? cost?

When I got mine, it had a rebate making it $39.95. Not much more now;
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130197
It's the same numbers as mine and my box says it will work with AGP 2, 4+8. Of course, there's no guarantee that they didn't change some small component that renders it non compatible with flashing. But, you won't know that 'til you try it. Of course you will have to flash it in a PC. And any higher PC card (6200+) will have to have a 128kb ROM soldered on, so, if you want a better one you might look here;
http://strangedogs.proboards40.com/index.cgi?board=sale
You'll have to look there anyway for flashing instructions
Personally, I should have gone with the 6200....

[Kifwalu]

Originally Posted by Tbarr

so, if you want a better one you might look here;
http://strangedogs.proboards40.com/index.cgi?board=sale
You'll have to look there anyway for flashing instructions
Personally, I should have gone with the 6200....

Question, would you buy something from this guy?
Would you trust any information you got from somebody like that even if they were on Strangedogs or any other site you normally trust?

If the answer is no, well that's the guy who runs Strangedogs.com according to 1 of his own website moderators & even himself. Check it out here and here.

Apparently this guy keeps fooling different websites like Cubeowner, Barefeats, XLR8, & others into thinking he's somebody else just so they'll review his ebay products.

You'll probably find much better advice without any ebay influence here and also video card conversion advice at the Cubeowner.com FAQs. All of the mods at strangedogs sell on ebay, so they'll just steer you to what they sell most times instead of giving out honest advice. At least that's my experience.

So be careful and check/read ebay feedback before buying anything.
Waiting on Apple's Nvidia cards might just be the best advice if that ever happens (please Apple!).
But if you want to do it yourself, you can't beat the info here at MacNN or the Cubeowner.com video card FAQs.

Good luck.

[generationfourt]

hmm very interesting info. thanks guys. I've been checking out strangedogs. I don't know if I want to buy a flashed 9700 or wait to see if apple is gonna offer something (which would probally be around ~150 i'm guessing?)

[ned1]

I'm still waiting to see what XFX delivers before I buy. If it's around twice the price of a Flashed card, I'll probably go with the flashed one. I wouldn't worry too much about what Mitch (Norwitcher) is saying, him and Strangedogs go back a long way. There are a lot of satisfied buyers at Strangedogs and Ruby is just one member there. If you want, you can read all about it at Strangedogs, just do a Strangedogs Google search for Mitch. It's kinda like the Hatfields and the McCoys.... I try to steer clear

[silkk]

You can pick up a Radeon 7000, 9000, 9200, or 9600 off ebay for $20 to $40. All of which support dual monitors extended desktop. Another option (because they are so cheap) is to get a pair of 7000 (one AGP and one PCI if you like) and run dual that way. Then you don't have to split the vram; you would get a full 32mb to each screen and only run you $60 or so. This also opens up the door to possibly 3 and 4 screens as well... that would be a wall of OS... what bliss.

[generationfourt]

I'm more than likely gonna buy a flashed 9700. I found a really reputable seller on ebay. ~110 shipped. Not bad for core image and quartz extreme. With those two I really wouldn't feel the need to upgrade my box for a while.

im going to wait two weeks and see what apple offers. I'm betting it'll cost $150 +

[ned1]

Originally Posted by generationfourt

...found a really reputable seller on ebay...

I wasn't going to say anything. I really shouldn't say anything. But, I can't help myself. According to recent intel, mac_geniuses is Mitch. There, now I won't feel bad for not saying anything.
Good Luck

[generationfourt]

its a pretty small world I guess

ok well I will keep shopping around anyway. If I did buy and flash a card it would probably be a 9700 so I'd rather have someone else do it and save me some time. Right now I've just been scratching the surface one all of the flashable cards. yeah he tends to knock other flashed cards, I'm at the point where I want to spend a 100 bucks or so and if I can have core image/quartz extreme that would be a huge plus. if there is any other person I should be buying off of then I'm open to suggestions. If there are any issues with the 9700 that anyone can point out to me right off the bat then I will be grateful...

[Kifwalu]

Originally Posted by Tbarr

I wasn't going to say anything. I really shouldn't say anything. But, I can't help myself. According to recent intel, mac_geniuses is Mitch. There, now I won't feel bad for not saying anything.
Good Luck

Actually I'm a strangedogs member, and I have no clue what the "recent intel" means, but I'm pretty sure you shouldn't be giving out what appears to be someone's personal information on a website now should you?

The Radeon 9600 would be the best value (sometimes found for less than $30), but I don't think they will work on your sawtooth. Even though the 9600 is the replacement card for the 9700, the 9700 is still faster, but requires a little more work to convert. I would avoid the Radeon 7000. I really think they should stop making them. It's the slowest dual display card you can buy and it acts like it. And sometimes the VGA video is crappy on the 2nd display and little support for most games. Yeah, technically you can play WoW on a 7000, but believe me it's a fate worse than death! Radeon 8500, 9000, & 9200, & Geforce3 are all better options (some harder to find than others), but no MacOS X core image. In my opinion, it just doesn't make sense to spend $70-$100 or more on one of these when there are much better cards (9600, 9700) in the same or in some cases much lower price range if you do it yourself. There are Nvidia cards too, mostly more expensive, but some say many of them won't work in a sawtooth, some say they will, and there seems to be a lot of dispute over their DVI capabilities and over-all stability so I don't really know enough to give a recommendation. Plus it looks like Apple is gonna release some of their own but they'll probably be kinda expensive and I'm guessing you wanna stay around $100 from your post. The ultimate sawtooth video card would be the 9800 256MB, but that might tax your power supply too much (as well as your wallet!) depending on what else you already have in the machine. Hope this advice helps out.

By the way, I tend to read strangedogs.com very selectively because if you read it often enough, you quickly realize everyone who's a moderator at the site is an ebay seller of what they are giving advice on, so they often attack other websites critical of them and pretty much any other ebay seller who doesn't have their "strangedogs seal of approval", whatever that means. I guess they share their ebay money like a co-op arrangement or something. I dunno. I'm actually surprised strangedogs.com hasn't been shut down by macgeniuses, Apple Mac Technology, or Cubeowner or MacNN by now with all the attacks against them all (they seem to have derogatory nicknames for each, some I can't even type here!). If you read all those links (and there are a bunch more too!) you'd almost have to believe either the people being attacked are the spawn of satan or the guy who runs strangedogs has a screw loose or something. He's this guy and according to the strangedogs site, he says he's also Tewlboy. He's got some very cool stuff up, no doubt about that, but, well, you decide.

So if you decide to buy something, my advice would be to compare feedback and decide on that no matter what type of video card you end up choosing. If someone's not on the up & up, it will eventually show in their ebay feedback. What I have noticed though is that some of the most unscrupulous ebay sellers with bad feedback often post in these forums pretending to be anonymous customers of themselves to make it look like they have such a great record. That's why you see Strangedogs.com name-dropped all over all the forums.

In fact, here's alink that actually shows the moderator who runs strangedogs begging for a legit MacNN member to post a phony good post about him and of course attacking this website at the same time! In another thread, he's begging for people with "good credit" to come forward to front him money and/or a good ebay account. You get the picture. So you do have to be careful of people in these forums who try to steer you directly to an ebay seller or a website sale. Half of the time, it is actually that very ebay seller himself!

Good luck!

[ned1]

*recent intel*

[Kifwalu]

I'm not sure what your point is Tbarr. Although, it does look like some of the profanity has been removed, so that's good I guess.

Why don't you post links to the Cubeowner, MacNN, & Apple Mac Technology attack threads as well?

[generationfourt]

wow who knew buying a video card could be so interesting haha..

ok what should I look into if I just need the following:
1. core image
2. quartz extreme
3. dual vga
4. stability

I dont play games at all

[Kifwalu]

If you don't need DVI at all, than a flashed Geforce 5200 might just be both your best & cheapest option. LCD DVI support seems to be an issue from what I've read on a bunch of websites, so if you need that I would investigate that thoroughly ahead of time before deciding.
Some PC converted Radeon 9700s will also do dual VGA, but most don't.
A Radeon 9800 covers all bases the best and probably has the best overall compatibility, but it is the most expensive and a bit out of the price range you said (although they seem to be getting cheaper and cheaper by the day). Plus, it's a bit taxing on a sawtooth power supply. Although, I've read many people are using the 9800s anyway.

[james3]

Originally Posted by generationfourt

wow who knew buying a video card could be so interesting haha..

ok what should I look into if I just need the following:
1. core image
2. quartz extreme
3. dual vga
4. stability

I dont play games at all

You will probably be fine with a flashed 5200 (or preferably a 5500 which is the same thing but with generally better spec) , just don't buy a dodgy one from mitch aka mac_geniuses aka i'm_a_macuser etc... seems he never got the hang of getting the ROM working properly. Just flash the damn thing yourself with a public ROM then PM one of the strangedogs crew for the full DVI/video out enabler. As with most things in life, if you want the job done properly you have to do it yourself.
Be aware that the shader implementation on the 52/5500 chips is atrocious, it is insufficient to provide meaningful Core Image acceleration in any pro app like motion or aperture. It is strange that I'd agree with Normicher but do yourself a favour and buy a cheap PC 9800pro then flash it yourself. Even if you get a 64K rom chip the reduced rom is 100% functional so it's the easiest DIY flash on the planet.
If you did not need dual VGA (or wanted dual DVI/VGA) a 9700pro would have been the most cost effective option (95% performance of a 9800 for half the price ) There is a mod to enable VGA in the DVI port but you'd need to ask a strangedogs member nicely...
If you are after a pre-flashed card and do not care about game performance just CI acceleration a very cost effective card would be a 6200. It has 3.0 level shaders, 4*pixel 3*vertex (vs 2.0 on 97/9800 8*p/4*v & 52/5500 1*p/1*v ) so it's great for CI and pro apps but, kinda pedestrian for games. The draw back is that there is no public rom for a 6200, so you'd have to purchase direct from Strangedogs which carries a premium, and you don't get the fun of doing it yourself.

Just to clarify in case anyone cares:
There are public ROMs for : Nvidia: gf2, gf3, gf4 titanium, 5200, 5500, 6800, ATI: 7000, 8500, 9700, 9800, X800XT this ignores cards that require complex hardware hacks or only work with specific manufactures such as 9200/9250.
The significant non public ROMs are: Nvidia 6200,6600,7800 and apparently 7900 is coming soon.
anyhow they are all stored here: http://strangedogs.sytes.net/
flashing FAQ
http://strangedogs.proboards40.com/i...ead=1111556315

In no way this should be seen as a pitch for strangedogs, it's just that this is where the goodies are

[HyperZboy]

I found this thread through an unrelated google search for Mac video cards and boy is an update on all this info in order here...

First, I've discovered you can find all of this Mac video card info without any sales pitches or ebay sellers shoving you one way or the other or any of that Hatfields vs. McCoys stuff by going to strangedogs � home. And it's free public info.

It's also important to note...
• The Strangedogs site is getting shut down by Proboards and they've lost their domain name.

• According to people who've posted on a bunch of other websites, 1 of the Strangedogs moderators ripped off a lot of people, totaling thousands of dollars on $500+ Geforce 7800 cards. There is a whole complaint thread on this at MacLife about the outright fraud.

• Having bought from some of the Strangedogs moderators and many of the ebay sellers mentioned here in this thread, of all the sellers of Mac video cards that I've bought from, Yoyomarv & Mac_Geniuses are BY FAR the ABSOLUTE BEST! The only people who criticize these people are either failed ebay sellers, the strangedogs moderators in hiding from people they ripped off, and/or both and that is the god's honest truth.