[Laminar]

Originally Posted by Dakar V 

Yeah, I think I've noticed that tendency lately.

I actually was joking about the seeing into the future thing. But not this time. As a good conservative Christian, it's my duty to misinterpret anything I read as an attack on my beliefs and values.

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

As a good conservative Christian, it's my duty to misinterpret anything I read as an attack on my beliefs and values.

This is quickly escalating into one of my favorite threads.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by d4nth3m4n 

OP said boyfriend and conservative christian. figured if OP was male this'd be a gay thread, not a cohabitation thread.

That makes sense...I guess shif is a girl. Who knew?

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

That makes sense...I guess shif is a girl. Who knew?

Her boyfriend, hopefully.

[-Q-]

To get back on topic..

Lived with my wife for 2 years before we got married, and we're working on year 8 of marriage.

So it can definitely work out very well.

[starman]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

And which bit of that is a fsking Bible quotation?

Sorry, he also said this:

"Morally, I'm not going to touch, because you already know what the Bible has to say. "

Which isn't an actual Bible quote but insinuates it, and since your talking in big letters I'll reciprocate the same.

[starman]

Originally Posted by Dakar V 

This is quickly escalating into one of my favorite threads.

See you on page 6.

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by -Q- 

Lived with my wife for 2 years before we got married, and we're working on year 8 of marriage.

So it can definitely work out very well.

Well that's the weird thing about this concept... the marriage isn't successful until one of you has died (Or is there some number we accept as successful?).

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by starman 

Sorry, he also said this:

"Morally, I'm not going to touch, because you already know what the Bible has to say. "

Which isn't an actual Bible quote but insinuates it, and since your talking in big letters I'll reciprocate the same.

Oh. I could have sworn you wrote:

Originally Posted by starman 

I really wish people would stop quoting passages from a book written over 2000 years ago

But I see you're changing your tune now. It's not a quote from the Bible anymore - it's an insinuation of a quote from the Bible.

Which would be wrong anyway, since the Bible doesn't actually say what you think it says with regard to this matter.

Good show.

[starman]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Oh. I could have sworn you wrote:



But I see you're changing your tune now. It's not a quote from the Bible anymore - it's an insinuation of a quote from the Bible.

Which would be wrong anyway, since the Bible doesn't actually say what you think it says with regard to this matter.

Good show.

Then WTF is he talking about?

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Which would be wrong anyway, since the Bible doesn't actually say what you think it says with regard to this matter.

But does Maflynn think it says what starman think it says?

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by starman 

Then WTF is he talking about?

I ask that after most Maflynn posts.

[MallyMal]

It's more fun to live separately...that way you can eat their snacks, roll around in their bed, knock over their plants and then just get up and go home.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by starman 

Then WTF is he talking about?

Well, I read his initial post as "if you're religious then let your religion guide you".

Then you got all anti-religion about the whole thing.

All said and done, if the religious aspect wasn't weighing on Shif's mind then she wouldn't have mentioned it, would she?

[Doofy]

BTW, on this whole cohab thing it's prolly best to check local laws too.

In the UK, for example, if you cohab for a period of time then split, she can take you for half your stuff and alimony payments exactly as if you'd been married.

[starman]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Well, I read his initial post as "if you're religious then let your religion guide you".

Then you got all anti-religion about the whole thing.

All said and done, if the religious aspect wasn't weighing on Shif's mind then she wouldn't have mentioned it, would she?

I'm sorry, where did I get all "anti-religion"? All I said was that whatever rule that was written 2000 years ago seems archaic now. You take that as "anti-religion"? I didn't tell anyone to rip their cross off their neck and renounce their religion.

Jeez, talk about misreading something.

Bolded, just to be sure you read it.

[Dakar V]

Yeah, I think its like 3 or 7 years. Common-law marriage.

[ort888]

Look, if the OP didn't say anything about Christianity in her original post then how the bible views cohabitation might be completely irrelevant. But since she says that she comes from a Christian background and is a Christian, then I think adding some thought on how her decision relates to her Christianity is valid.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by starman 

All I said was that whatever rule that was written 2000 years ago seems archaic now. You take that as "anti-religion"?

Yep. It's a standard anti-religion argument, in case you were unaware.

Originally Posted by starman

I really wish people would stop quoting passages from a book written over 2000 years ago

Roughly translated: "I really wish people would stop living their lives by the Bible". Which, by all standards, is anti-religious.

You know it. I know it. No need to deny it dude.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Dakar V 

Yeah, I think its like 3 or 7 years. Common-law marriage.

It's much, much lower than that here. Six months rings a bell (IIRC).

[starman]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Yep. It's a standard anti-religion argument, in case you were unaware.



Roughly translated: "I really wish people would stop living their lives by the Bible". Which, by all standards, is anti-religious.

You know it. I know it. No need to deny it dude.

So because I disagree with ONE thing about the Bible, you seem to think I disagree with EVERYTHING from the Bible? WTF is wrong with your logic?

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by starman 

So because I disagree with ONE thing about the Bible, you seem to think I disagree with EVERYTHING from the Bible?

Did I say that? No.

[starman]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Did I say that? No.

Yes, you did:

"I really wish people would stop living their lives by the Bible"

That's not what I said.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by starman 

Yes, you did:

"I really wish people would stop living their lives by the Bible"

That's not what I said.

No, you said:

Originally Posted by starman

I really wish people would stop quoting passages from a book written over 2000 years ago

Is that just the passages about the canoodling that you wish people would stop quoting, or any/all passages? If it's the former, then you really need to point that out.

[subego]

[starman]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

No, you said:



Is that just the passages about the canoodling that you wish people would stop quoting, or any/all passages? If it's the former, then you really need to point that out.

True, it was about canoodling, but I was talking about the context of THIS thread's topic. Come on, how many hairs do you have left to split?

[SSharon]

Enough with the Bible already, let's get this back on track.

Shif, I wouldn't call my experience cohabitation, but I did live in my wife's house (with her parents) before we got married. It was for practical reasons because I graduated college in the winter and didn't start my next school until the fall.
I can't say how glad I am that we dated for such a long time. Some things you can only learn about a person over time. Other things you can only learn by living with someone and so I see it as a good idea.

We both have religious parents by the way and nobody minded that we were living under the same roof.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by starman 

True, it was about canoodling, but I was talking about the context of THIS thread's topic. Come on, how many hairs do you have left to split?

I'm still at a loss to explain why you'd want people who haven't quoted canoodling passages from the Bible to stop quoting canoodling passages from the Bible.

That's like saying I want The Hoff to stop cooking pizza in my bathroom when The Hoff isn't actually in my bathroom, much less cooking pizza in there.

[ThinkInsane]

Gentleman, you seem to be getting sidetracked here.

[Maflynn]

Originally Posted by SSharon 

I can't say how glad I am that we dated for such a long time. Some things you can only learn about a person over time.

Definitely, I've known too many couples that seemingly fell head over heals extremely quickly only to see it fizzle out. As I stated if its true love then there's no harm in taking things slow.

[Laminar]

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by Maflynn 

if its true love then there's no harm in taking things slow.

So what you're telling me is, if it's not true love, it's cool to go as fast as possible? Sweet.

[Maflynn]

Originally Posted by Dakar V 

So what you're telling me is, if it's not true love, it's cool to go as fast as possible? Sweet.

knock yourself out lover boy

[shifuimam]

OMFG chill the hell out, guys. Maflynn didn't quote any Bible verses or really bring the Bible into it; anyone who's raised in a conservative Christian home knows what that community's mentality is on premarital cohabitation. So let's just move on. Internet fights and drama are boring and immature, and were not the purpose of this thread. K?

To those who are all "omg shif, you're moving way too fast", I can understand how it might seem that way. However, having been single for more than a year now (I've dated a few guys off and on, but haven't been in any major relationships since my 2.25-year one ended in late July 2007), combined with finally finding an antidepressant that has had an amazing effect on my depression and contributed to completely changing my outlook on life, this isn't something I'm really rushing into, nor am I head-over-heels giddy with love.

I've been in enough relationships and dated enough guys to know exactly what I want, and if a guy isn't 100% what I'm looking for (yes, I have a written list of criteria at this point), I'm not going to waste a lot of time on him for anything but gettin' some. I don't think it necessarily takes years to decide whether or not your SO is "the one" - sometimes, you can know much sooner than that. The BF's parents got engaged only two weeks after meeting each other, got married two weeks after that, and are still very much in love and happy together after twenty years of marriage.

Not saying it's the norm or should be expected, but it does happen.

As far as my moral stance on cohabitation, it's the same as my moral stance on sex - I think that Christians are wholly obsessed with sex and relationships and all else related to those subjects, and forget that there are far more important things to worry about. Living with someone out of convenience for money or easy-access sex is a bad idea. Living with someone as part of the preparation period for engagement and marriage is a different story, IMO.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

As far as my moral stance on cohabitation, it's the same as my moral stance on sex - I think that Christians are wholly obsessed with sex and relationships and all else related to those subjects, and forget that there are far more important things to worry about.

So police shouldn't worry about petty theft because there are occasionally murders?

[shifuimam]

That was the cliff's notes version.

Here's the thing: cohabitation in a committed relationship that is going to eventually end in marriage is no different than actually being marriage, except that one comes with a tax benefit and the other doesn't.

You can be married to someone your entire life without ever entering into a legally-binding, government-recognized union, wouldn't you agree?

Sex is much the same way to me. Having sex with someone before marriage does not automatically mean you'll have sexual dysfunction problems in your future marriage.

It's all about context. If you're living with someone who isn't on the same page as you are regarding the stance of the relationship, you're going to have problems. Likewise, if you have sex with someone who doesn't hold your view on the reason for the sex (e.g. a girl who sleeps with a guy when she expects it to turn into a relationship and he expects it to turn into casual FWB), you're going to end up having major problems.

Living with someone for convenience with no sense of long-term commitment is just a waste of time more than anything. Living with someone because you're going to marry them and (a) want to test the waters and (b) want to save money puts it in a different context. It's not something that I can say is unequivocally right or wrong.

I don't even buy that the Bible flat-out bans premarital anything, TBH. Marriages in the old testament were more like business agreements than anything else; Israelite women had little or no say in who they married and were transitioned from under their father's control directly to their husband's control, with no period of autonomy in between. Times have changed in that regard. Same goes for sex. If sex is all about procreation, and families are socioeconomic institutions to protect children, then is it not logical to say that Christian is unilaterally sinning by engaging in protected sex (even within marriage)? I would think, also, that permanent birth control (tubal ligation, vasectomy, Essure, etc) is even more sinful. But if that's not the case, then sex in a committed but legally-unrecognized relationship is no different than sex between two people with a piece of paper that says they're married.

I just feel like modern Christianity is more obsessed with premarital sex and sexual behavior than focusing on more important things, like being careful about one's level of emotional involvement in a significant other until the time is appropriate, or figuring out what you want in a person so that you're not just getting married for the sake of getting married or because it "seems like the next logical step". Instead, we just warn kids not to kiss before marriage and pretend like their sexual feelings don't exist until their wedding night, at which point many of them have repressed their sexuality for so long that they end up having serious issues with performance and dysfunction.

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

Sex is much the same way to me. Having sex with someone before marriage does not automatically mean you'll have sexual dysfunction problems in your future marriage.

True, but I've never heard anyone say otherwise.

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

Living with someone for convenience with no sense of long-term commitment is just a waste of time more than anything.

It is?

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

Israelite women had little or no say in who they married and were transitioned from under their father's control directly to their husband's control, with no period of autonomy in between. Times have changed in that regard.

Should they have?

Originally Posted by Dakar V 

True, but I've never heard anyone say otherwise.

Go to church sometime. I once heard someone say that premarital sex and porn are responsible for the necessity of Viagra

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

Go to church sometime.

I'll pass thanks.

Originally Posted by Laminar 

I once heard someone say that premarital sex and porn are responsible for the necessity of Viagra

That's just crazy people.

[Shaddim]

You know, I'd already written a few paragraphs about cohabitation and my views on marriage... but deleted them instead. I don't think this is the right venue for that type of thing. Putting real feeling into a MacNN discussion is a complete waste of time.

Shif, if you want to hear my views on such things, and where I've been, send me a PM.

[andi*pandi]

I moved in with my boyfriend only after he became my fiance, after 4 years of dating I still wanted that assurance. We got married a year later, and although I do nod knowingly at the "trial run" arguments, after getting married some things were still suddenly different and needed to be navigated.

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

I moved in with my boyfriend only after he became my fiance, after 4 years of dating I still wanted that assurance

You were worried he would not buy the cow when he was getting the milk for free, so to speak?

[andi*pandi]

Not exactly.

I was worried I'd have to move again if he got flighty and we broke up. Moving in is a measure of commitment, for me anyhow. And I hate moving.

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by Dakar V 

It is?

I would say so, yeah. Moving is a real bitch, and living with someone full-time who you're not 100% committed to in the long term is just going to add unnecessary stress to the relationship. If you're not interested in a real future with the person, why move in with them? You're just going to have to move out later, and it's going to be a lot more difficult since you'll likely have ended up buying shared electronics, furniture, appliances, etc.

Originally Posted by Laminar 

Should they have?

What do you think? Wouldn't you say a woman should be permitted to have her own opinion on the man she's to spend the rest of her life with?

Culture has changed, and women are no longer slaves to a man's wallet in order to survive. I don't want to be dependent on a man, emotionally or financially. I wholeheartedly believe that both people in the relationship should contribute equally to it. Making the woman little more than property whose ownership is handed off at the wedding invalidates her as a person with feelings and desires, and essentially renders her incapable of standing on her own two feet.

I know too many young Christian wives who literally believe they are at their husband's mercy for absolutely everything, from where they're allowed to work to how they're allowed to do their hair. I just don't see that kind of "submission" as Biblical, unless God meant "submission" in the BDSM sense.

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

I moved in with my boyfriend only after he became my fiance, after 4 years of dating I still wanted that assurance. We got married a year later, and although I do nod knowingly at the "trial run" arguments, after getting married some things were still suddenly different and needed to be navigated.

What kind of things were suddenly different? All I can really see is a difference in a piece of paper, the fact that you can now easily combine financial assets, and putting the other person on your car insurance. I wouldn't expect other things to suddenly change...

[andi*pandi]

The trial run proved that we could compromise on toothpaste brands, toiletpaper over/under, and division of chores, while adjusting to snoring, sharing bathrooms, and seeing each other 24/7. Roommates plus. Fun.

Getting married was serious, and made all discussions of future decisions into Serious Discussions about Serious Topics. Children, religion, life, death. Much less easy to brush off or solve by milk.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

I just don't see that kind of "submission" as Biblical, unless God meant "submission" in the BDSM sense.

I can only hope

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

I know too many young Christian wives who literally believe they are at their husband's mercy for absolutely everything, from where they're allowed to work to how they're allowed to do their hair. I just don't see that kind of "submission" as Biblical…

I hate to break it to you, but by the standards of the times the bible was written, that's EXACTLY what they meant.

[Rumor]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

Based on what data?

This is the internet. Facts and data do not come into play.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

I would say so, yeah. Moving is a real bitch, and living with someone full-time who you're not 100% committed to in the long term is just going to add unnecessary stress to the relationship. If you're not interested in a real future with the person, why move in with them?

You've never had a roommate?

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

I hate to break it to you, but by the standards of the times the bible was written, that's EXACTLY what they meant.

Stick with your current line of work.