[subego]

Can anyone defend this?

Police Pepper Spray Peaceful UC Davis Students - YouTube



Edit: it's an 8+ minute clip, but things go down in the first 30 seconds.

[Waragainstsleep]

Open Letter to Chancellor Linda P.B. Katehi | UCDavis Bicycle Barricade

[Doofy]

That looks like loads of fun. Only today I wished I was pepper-spraying dirty hippies.

[subego]

I can poop a better troll than that.

1.3/10

[Doofy]

Who's trolling? I genuinely think it'd be fun to pepper-spray dirty hippies in the face like that. Where's UC Davis? Can I get a job?

[subego]

No doubt. Just look for the signs which say "needed: enforcer of the state's will".

[Doofy]

Bizarre ain't it?

Those hippies protesting don't realise it, but they're actually protesting in favour of a larger state and much more of the treatment that they got in that video.
So they should be enjoying it - it's what they want.

[Doofy]

I also find it amusing that all these anti-corporate hippies are all using mobile communications devices manufactured by corporations. Hypocrites.

[subego]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Bizarre ain't it?

Those hippies protesting don't realise it, but they're actually protesting in favour of a larger state and much more of the treatment that they got in that video.

How so?

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by subego 

How so?

How big and how brutal a state do you think you need to make the rich pay the taxes that these hippies want them to pay?

Doesn't anyone remember the USSR?

[subego]

Ummm... They were protesting recent police brutality.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by subego 

Ummm... They were protesting recent police brutality.

Funny, I thought they were part of the "Occupy" movement at UC Davis. Or are all the "Occupy Davis Interviews" on the sidebar completely unrelated?

[subego]

They're related in the sense that they're in the same place, but this was not an occupy protest.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by subego 

They're related in the sense that they're in the same place, but this was not an occupy protest.

So why are they using "Occupy" tactics?

[subego]

Because the incidents of police brutality they're protesting were inflicted upon the occupy movement.

[Doofy]

So you're telling me that the people in this video protesting "police brutality" are not the same people who'd be at the "Occupy" protest? Completely different bunch of people?

Uh huh.

Hey, wanna buy some moon dust? Cures all known ills and makes you virile. Special offer discount at the moment! Get some while it lasts!

[subego]

So, anyone who would be part of an OWS type protest can't protest something else?

[Doofy]

Only $39,999 per gram. Get it while it lasts!

[Doc HM]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

I also find it amusing that all these anti-corporate hippies are all using mobile communications devices manufactured by corporations. Hypocrites.

They aren't protesting corporations. They are protesting unrestrained greed and inequality. I imagine corporations could make phones etc responsibly.

Of course they would cost a shed load more than they do now.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Doc HM 

They aren't protesting corporations. They are protesting unrestrained greed and inequality.

Let's face it - most of them don't know what they're protesting (other than "The rich! Aieeee!"). They just like whining and it's a good old jolly for them, where weedy below-average blokes get to score hot comrade action with hairy-legged tubby chicks.

[chabig]

Originally Posted by subego 

Can anyone defend this?

Sure. Judging by the amount of yelling, screaming, and chanting, I would hardly characterize the students as peaceful. I also assume they disobeyed lawful orders to disperse. Pepper spray hurts, but it's completely appropriate here.

[ironknee]

no guns, just chanting...

the police are the government

[subego]

Originally Posted by chabig 

Sure. Judging by the amount of yelling, screaming, and chanting, I would hardly characterize the students as peaceful. I also assume they disobeyed lawful orders to disperse. Pepper spray hurts, but it's completely appropriate here.

Seriously? Pepper spray is appropriate because people were chanting?

[subego]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Only $39,999 per gram. Get it while it lasts!

Meh.

I wouldn't get caught dead at an OWS protest (except to maybe document it). OTOH, the way cops have been ordered or chosen to behave in reaction is disgusting. I'd join the protest in a second.

You see, I actually have a problem with the state beating the shit out of its citizens.

[chabig]

Originally Posted by subego 

Seriously? Pepper spray is appropriate because people were chanting?

Yes. I really believe so. They were more than chanting. They were loud and unruly, and failed to heed lawful orders to disperse. Pepper spray is not a first response tactic. Using it actually helps prevent violence.

[imitchellg5]

LOL @ the person filming it with what appears to be a Galaxy Tab or iPad.

Though the immediate reaction is to be angry at the police, we don't really know the context here. If they had been asked to leave repeatedly, pepper spray is an appropriate answer, though I think it would have been more effective to disperse it in the general vicinity, rather than directly in front of the faces of protesters sitting on the ground. I hesitate to call judgement, but I'm guessing that both parties share the blame for this.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by chabig 

Yes. I really believe so. They were more than chanting. They were loud and unruly, and failed to heed lawful orders to disperse. Pepper spray is not a first response tactic. Using it actually helps prevent violence.

Loud and unruly? For protesters, that was pretty quiet.

[subego]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

LOL @ the person filming it with what appears to be a Galaxy Tab or iPad.

Though the immediate reaction is to be angry at the police, we don't really know the context here. If they had been asked to leave repeatedly, pepper spray is an appropriate answer, though I think it would have been more effective to disperse it in the general vicinity, rather than directly in front of the faces of protesters sitting on the ground. I hesitate to call judgement, but I'm guessing that both parties share the blame for this.

Lots of protests can and have been dispersed without pepper spray.

[chabig]

Originally Posted by subego 

Lots of protests can and have been dispersed without pepper spray.

OK.

[subego]

Originally Posted by chabig 

Yes. I really believe so. They were more than chanting. They were loud and unruly, and failed to heed lawful orders to disperse. Pepper spray is not a first response tactic. Using it actually helps prevent violence.

Sitting cross-legged is unruly?

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by subego 

You see, I actually have a problem with the state beating the shit out of its citizens.

I don't... ...saves me doing it! And let's face it, most people need the crap beaten out of them every once in a while.

[Shaddim]

Did they have a permit for the demonstration? Were they trespassing? Did they ignore a lawful peace officer who told them to leave? You know, if I start camping in front of the IRS headquarters and protesting that my taxes are unfair, and I didn't leave when I was told, I'd expect to get peppered and taken downtown.

[subego]

Meh.

I think needing to get a permit from the government, to protest the government, is a pile of horseshit.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Where's UC Davis?

Davis, California. Hence the name: University of California, Davis.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Did they have a permit for the demonstration? Were they trespassing? Did they ignore a lawful peace officer who told them to leave? You know, if I start camping in front of the IRS headquarters and protesting that my taxes are unfair, and I didn't leave when I was told, I'd expect to get peppered and taken downtown.

Exactly.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by from Wikipedia

U.S. Congressman and 2012 Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul (R-TX) stated, "If they were demonstrating peacefully, and making a point, and arguing our case, and drawing attention to the Fed—I would say, 'good!'" In a GOP debate, mentioning the ongoing “Occupy Wall Street” protesters, he stated that crony capitalists are those “that benefit from contract from government, benefit from the Federal Reserve, benefit from all the bailouts. They don’t deserve compassion. They deserve taxation or they deserve to have all their benefits removed."

This entire protest is about crony capitalism. Watching all you right-wingers defend this corruption of capitalism by the complete Wall Street ownership of both political parties tells me you like this slide from real capitalism into neo-feudalism.

You guys are shameless sellouts.

A gang of white collar criminals destroys the U.S. economy and lowers it into permanent recession, and no one goes to jail. U.S. telcos participate in illegal wiretapping of American citizens, and no one goes to jail. The U.S. tortures detainees, or flies them to third-world dictatorships to be tortured there, and no one goes to jail. But a few students and unemployed people put up a few tents or sing a few chants, and it's time for riot cops and tear gas.

We have banned corporate donations in Canada. You can do it too. You must do it, to save yourselves from this nightmare of plutocratic cronyism.

[subego]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

Exactly.

And I'll repeat the response.

Needing a permit from the government, to protest the government, is a pile of horseshit.

Are the principles of freedom of speech and assembly worthless to you?

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Did they have a permit for the demonstration? Were they trespassing? Did they ignore a lawful peace officer who told them to leave? You know, if I start camping in front of the IRS headquarters and protesting that my taxes are unfair, and I didn't leave when I was told, I'd expect to get peppered and taken downtown.

They know this is gonna happen. The suffragettes knew it would happen, the union movement knew it would happen, the civil rights movement knew it would happen, the peace movement knew it would happen.

But this is the only way to call attention to the political situation. Nothing else ever works.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by subego 

And I'll repeat the response.

Needing a permit from the government, to protest the government, is a pile of horseshit.

Are the principles of freedom of speech and assembly worthless to you?

A school is a different situation though.

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by subego 

Because the incidents of police brutality they're protesting were inflicted upon the occupy movement.

I thought they were protesting tuition hikes at their school, not police brutality against the Occupy mobs.

[subego]

According to the open letter, it was both incidents of brutality on other UC campuses and tuition increases.

[subego]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

A school is a different situation though.

Go on...

[Wiskedjak]

I don't like the Occupy movement; they appear to be protesting without any focus or thought about how to implement the changes they want, or even what the world would *really* look like if they got what they wanted.

Having said that, I also don't like that our police forces are becoming increasingly agressive. In that video, it appeared that those students were sprayed punitively; they could've been easily removed without the need to spray.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Having said that, I also don't like that our police forces are becoming increasingly agressive. In that video, it appeared that those students were sprayed punitively; they could've been easily removed without the need to spray.

Cops with paintball guns. Cops with paper name tags.
In that video it could be the drama department playing the cops for all we know.

The video combines the US and A's main three exports (bullshit, drama and violence) into one tidy package!

[OldManMac]

There seems to be more than a couple of you who don't understand the difference between freedom and fascism.

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

This entire protest is about crony capitalism. Watching all you right-wingers defend this corruption of capitalism by the complete Wall Street ownership of both political parties tells me you like this slide from real capitalism into neo-feudalism.

That's what you might think it's about, but when you see the wealth of "unofficial demands" of the scant few segments of the OWS movement capable of compiling them, you see something quite different. They are not protesting the President of the United States or railing on a predominantly Democratic Congress for the bailouts etc... they're protesting at the campaign rallies of Republicans and they're asking for a net-increase in social services.

You guys are shameless sellouts.

I might decry something ambiguous like "profiting from social ills" and you might generally agree that this is a bad thing until you realize that what I'm really talking about is a halt to all funding of Planned Parenthood for example. You may feel that I have a meritorious gripe overall, but that doesn't mean you would champion my specific complaints once they are known. The many on the right critical of this movement understand that a government that costs more to operate cannot separate itself from the money-interest. If there's a green-jobs agenda under the guise of protecting the environment for example, but leads to the CEO of a tech conglomerate and 6th largest firm in the US finding his way into the President's Economic Recovery Advisory Board as a beneficiary of TARP and operating under a tax haven other TARP recipients can't enjoy, it's crony-capitalism regardless of whether or not you agree with protecting the environment. Notwithstanding the other major complaint against OWS. In their unceasing efforts to protect the environment are absolutely trashing every area they occupy.

At no time has there been more evidence of crony-capitalism in Washington, but instead of protesting any of the numerous stops this President has made throughout the US have managed to collect at just about every Republican Presidential campaign event while parroting this Administration's narrative of vague indictments against those with material wealth. Classic, "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain". This is what the right has a problem with. Ron Paul is correct that if the movement brings attention to the Fed, it is a good thing yet their attention is nowhere near the Fed. They are are not advocating the elimination of the Federal Reserve banking system as Ron Paul might advocate and I have no clue why you'd use a statement of his as somehow an endorsement of the lunacy of OWS.

*Hint, you convening on the lobby of a community bank that has the student loan you're hoping they'll write off because you're causing an inconvenience isn't protesting the Federal Reserve Banking system. It's trying to get out of paying back money you took. This isn't greedy at all.

A gang of white collar criminals destroys the U.S. economy and lowers it into permanent recession, and no one goes to jail. U.S. telcos participate in illegal wiretapping of American citizens, and no one goes to jail. The U.S. tortures detainees, or flies them to third-world dictatorships to be tortured there, and no one goes to jail. But a few students and unemployed people put up a few tents or sing a few chants, and it's time for riot cops and tear gas.

I don't support riot cops and tear gas, but I also realize these are little more than catchy headlines for the short attention span. In most cases these folks have been allowed to peaceably assemble and the draconian taglines you're citing aren't the norm. There's a difference between assembly and squatting. There's also a difference between peaceful demonstrations and open, active civil disobedience. Every one of the atrocities you cite are perpetuated by the Federal government that no amount of littering, raping chicks in tents, pissing on people, and stealing iPads is going to fix.

We have banned corporate donations in Canada. You can do it too. You must do it, to save yourselves from this nightmare of plutocratic cronyism.

This of course includes the ban on union donations in Canada as well.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Cops with paintball guns. Cops with paper name tags.
In that video it could be the drama department playing the cops for all we know.

The video combines the US and A's main three exports (bullshit, drama and violence) into one tidy package!

Ya, I don't really get the paintball guns. The pepper spray, however, seemed quite strong and entirely unnecessary.

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

How big and how brutal a state do you think you need to make the rich pay the taxes that these hippies want them to pay?

Doesn't anyone remember the USSR?

Crickets usually chirp when this irony is pointed out. I've asked it before:

Does encouraging a bigger more powerful government that only views people as a collective, existing only at the leisure of the state, and never as individuals at a law-making level, lead to a kinder, gentler government that doesn't view people as a collective, existing only at the leisure of the state, but as individuals at a law-enforcement level?

I don't expect a straight or honest answer.

These police are just the arm of enforcement for the lawmakers the protesters are generally appealing to to grab more power, and more control over private citizens.

They'll never realize it though, (or if they ever do, own up) that they're largely the architects of the very thing they're supposedly against: a huge and over-powerful government that metes out punishment against citizens who have crossed the state (either by being 'greedy' or just by 'speaking out') they just want the abusive power directed at someone else via financial enslavement, not at themselves via abusive law-enforcement. Flip side/same coin.

Personally, I'm against cops pepper-spraying non-violent protesters, but then, I'm actually against BIG GOVERNMENT in ALL of its forms, and realize one side doesn't magically become kinder/gentler when it's just following the orders of the other.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by OldManMac 

There seems to be more than a couple of you who don't understand the difference between freedom and fascism.

Yep. Freedom's what happens when a bunch of hippies who want more "equality" are told where to get off. Fascism is what happens when those hippies get their way.
See Russian Revolution for details.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

They'll never realize it though, (or if they ever do, own up) that they're largely the architects of the very thing they're supposedly against

Amen.