[lpkmckenna]

Are you excited? I am. Almost everything I've read and seen looks good.

1. They fixed the Hellbender. It's now a two-man vehicle, and the driver now controls the Skymine cannon. (Driving without weapon = boring) And the charge'n'release turret on the back fires like a normal gun: press to fire. The Hellbender was the coolest looking vehicle with the worst game play in UT2004.

2. The snot-gun, spider-miner, and grenade-gun are now merging into a single "canister gun" with swappable ammo. Good. UT really has too many weapons. But they should have gone further and merged all the rocket launchers too.

3. At least 8 new "Necris" vehicles. So far they look cool.

4. A new "hoverboard" in Onslaught, to get re-spawned players quickly back into the action. Uh, ok....

5. The Rocket Launcher will be able to fire grenades again, just like classic UT.

6. Unreal Editor will be available to Mac and Linux users, at last.

But it seems they won't fix everything. For instance.

1. Still no "universal zoom." They're dumping the Lightning Gun but keeping the Sniper Rifle. Why keep either? With universal zoom the Shock Rifle could serve as a sniping weapon.

2. They're dumping the Assault Rifle and Shield Gun and bringing back Enforcers and the Impact Hammer. Why, I don't know. Frankly, they should just let the player spawn with the Shock Rifle and the Link Gun. Boom, they're ready to go but not too strong.

3. No Skaarj? Are they kidding? But the lame-@ss Egyptians are still there?

4. The Scorpion now fires rockets instead of the plasma-bolas. I dunno, that bolas really makes the Scorpion distinctive.

5. Minigun is gone, but the Stinger is back. Frankly, I think UT needs at least one "old school" gun, and I thought the minigun was it.

Will they answer my most frequent complaints?

1. Unlimited ammo. Running around for ammo is getting really old. At least make it an optional rule or mutator.

2. Instagib. Make sure it's available in Onslaught this time, ok? ( Instagib4ever mutator was a dream! )

3. 3rd person play. I mean, why not?

4. A universal system to swap vehicles and weapons so mod-makers can plan for interoperability.

5. The weapon bar is too crammed. Every weapon should get it's own spot, instead of the Flak Cannon and Grenade Launcher sharing a spot, or the Sniper Rifle, Lightning Gun, Redeemer, and Painters sharing a spot.

6. Too many weapons. Onslaught is a nightmare with up to 15 weapons in that mode. Canister Gun good. How about a single Rocket Launcher too?

A lot of bitching. Yeah, I know. But I love the Unreal games, and I just want it to be as fun as possible. It already beats Doom/Quake and Marathon/Halo in terms of better weapons, vehicles, and models. But I think it's time to clean out the boring weapons (like the pee-shooters) and boring events (grabbing ammo).

[Sbtrfuge]

I really really really liked UT....but U2k3 was lacking, and so far UT2004 just... grates on me. The vehicles are all annoying, and really took away from the flavor of UT. If someone else has a vehicle and you don't, you're just kinda screwed and you might as well be a pedestrian in a GTA game.

[Leonard]

Yeah, I can't wait for it to come out. Haven't heard any news lately. Is it coming out on the PC this year and Mac early next year?

1. Hadn't heard about them fixing the Hellbender, but it sounds like a good idea that the driver at least has one weapon to fire. Honking the horn was nice (needs to be added to Halo), but you were a sitting duck without a weapon. Sure you could park and go to the rear cannon and fire.

2. Good idea to merge these although I don't agree there are too many weapons.

3. Yeah those look tres cool. The 3 footed walker is interesting. Looks like it's from War of the Worlds.

4. This is really cool. A feature of the hoverboard is apparently you can get on a hoverboard and hook onto a vehicle somehow and be pulled around like a water-boarder.

5. I miss that feature.

6. I'm a player, so I don't make maps, but it'll help the the Unreal community, and who knows, maybe I'll actually make a map.

Second Set of Comments:

1. A zoom on the Shock Rifle would be good, I've often that it was missing a zoom. As for it replacing the Sniper rifle, I'm not sure if I agree. The Sniper Rifle is limited in distance. The Shock rifle with zoom could replace the lightning gun.

2. The Shield Gun was good in certain circumstances in Assault, but then again, they're getting rid of Assault.

3. meh. The Skaarj have been there from the beginning, I guess I'll miss them a bit.

4. Yah, the plasma-bolas made the Scorpions quite distinctive and I had no problems with the plasma-bolas. Are they keeping the side blades? Maybe replacing those with rockets would be better.

5. Stinger? Hmmm... gotta take a look. Can't remember what that is. Didn't they replace the stinger in UT2004 (I don't count UT2003 as a UT - I hated it) with the gun that shoots pink shards? Like you, I'd prefer they keep the mini-gun around.

They apparently are changing the Levi (leviathon) too - the form of it and the weaponry from what I heard and saw.

[MattJeff]

any screen shots?....ive never played

[lpkmckenna]

unreal tournament 2004 - Google Image Search



unreal tournament 2007 - Google Image Search

[Peter]

you can never, ever, have too many weapons in Unreal.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by Peter 

you can never, ever, have too many weapons in Unreal.

I would prefer a radical re-thinking of weapons in Unreal.

Imagine this. Players start with a Shock Rifle and a Link Gun, both with unlimited ammo. Pick-up include an attachable Grenade Launcher and an attachable Rocker Launcher, plus various types of grenade and rocket ammo pick-ups.

The Launchers are attached to the underside of either the Link Gun or the Shock Rifle. (Think M16 + M209 grenade launcher.) Thus you can have a combo Shock Rifle/Rocket Launcher and combo Link Gun/Grenade Launcher, or a combo Shock Rifle/Grenade Launcher and combo Link Gun/Grenade Launcher. Types of grenades could be goop, Flak, Spider-mines, or anti-vehicle, and types of rockets include normal, AVRil, nuclear. (Others could be imagined.) Of course, both the Link and Shock Rifle would have zoom, and that zoom could be used for the launchers too.

Basically, it would serve the same purpose as Halo's "akimbo weapons," but look more distinct. It would also reduce the absurdity of a single warrior carrying a dozen different guns.

The weapon bar could be replaced with an ammo bar, showing exactly how many flak grenades, normal rockets, AVRils, spider-mines, and so on are available.

-----

One more thing about instagib and Onslaught. Playing instagib has a much better frame-rate on slower machines. I play UT2004 on my 1 GHz PowerBook; much smoother with Instagib.

When UT2007 comes out, I'll decide whether to update to a MacBook Pro, or just a MacBook and a console.

[macintologist]

Umm when you're driving the Hellbender alone, you can press 1, 2, or 3 to switch between driver, and the two types of gunners.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

The Launchers are attached to the underside of either the Link Gun or the Shock Rifle. (Think M16 + M209 grenade launcher.) Thus you can have a combo Shock Rifle/Rocket Launcher and combo Link Gun/Grenade Launcher, or a combo Shock Rifle/Grenade Launcher and combo Link Gun/Grenade Launcher. Types of grenades could be goop, Flak, Spider-mines, or anti-vehicle, and types of rockets include normal, AVRil, nuclear. (Others could be imagined.) Of course, both the Link and Shock Rifle would have zoom, and that zoom could be used for the launchers too.

Ok, I've already decided that it could be a lot simpler still. No launcher pick-up; both Shock and Link guns already have an unloaded launcher attached. The player just needs to pick up the ammo.

The launcher ammo can be any type of rocket or grenade. So the Shock Rifle's launcher could be set to fire normal rockets and the Link Gun's launcher could be set to fire AVRils. Or they could both fire types of grenades. Simple.

EDIT: to approximate a minigun, the game could include Tarydium grenades, which can be fired as an intact crystal that explodes in the target, or is shattered and fired out in a stream of shards similar to the Stinger or Minigun.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by macintologist 

Umm when you're driving the Hellbender alone, you can press 1, 2, or 3 to switch between driver, and the two types of gunners.

Yeah, but you need to stop. The Hellbender v2 will be much more fun for the driver.

[Grrr]

Originally Posted by Sbtrfuge 

I really really really liked UT....but U2k3 was lacking, and so far UT2004 just... grates on me. The vehicles are all annoying, and really took away from the flavor of UT. If someone else has a vehicle and you don't, you're just kinda screwed and you might as well be a pedestrian in a GTA game.

Take the time to learn how to play it and use all the weapons, and you'd know that being without a vehicle does not = screwed at all. There are all kinds of ways to deal with them while on foot.
I'll name you one to get you started.. Avril.

[lpkmckenna]

The Necris Viper looks so cool....

[thebunny]

Originally Posted by Sbtrfuge 

I really really really liked UT....but U2k3 was lacking, and so far UT2004 just... grates on me. The vehicles are all annoying, and really took away from the flavor of UT. If someone else has a vehicle and you don't, you're just kinda screwed and you might as well be a pedestrian in a GTA game.

Yeah, the original UT was king of them all. I totally miss it. UT2k3 was horrid and too quakeish, UT2k4 is just plain annoying. I wish the CTF portion of UT2k7 would go back to basics. I don't care much for ONS with the lame spider mines.

[himself]

Originally Posted by Peter 

you can never, ever, have too many weapons in Unreal.

Word... except for the spider mines.

Originally Posted by thebunny 

Yeah, the original UT was king of them all. I totally miss it. UT2k3 was horrid and too quakeish, UT2k4 is just plain annoying. I wish the CTF portion of UT2k7 would go back to basics. I don't care much for ONS with the lame spider mines.

[Chinasaur]

Dual Enforcers were some of the most fun in UT. In the hands of someone who can aim, they rock! Good to hear they are back.

[Leonard]

Originally Posted by Grrr 

Take the time to learn how to play it and use all the weapons, and you'd know that being without a vehicle does not = screwed at all. There are all kinds of ways to deal with them while on foot.
I'll name you one to get you started.. Avril.

Depending on the vehicle, the shock rifle can also be useful.

[Sbtrfuge]

I know about the Avril. My point is unless you have a specific anti vehicle weapon it's pretty much impossible to kill someone in a vehicle. It's crap. It turned UT into a GTA/Twisted Metal genre.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by Leonard 

Depending on the vehicle, the shock rifle can also be useful.

The Shock Rifle is great to use on flying vehicles, because it screws up their aim.

[Grrr]

Originally Posted by Sbtrfuge 

I know about the Avril. My point is unless you have a specific anti vehicle weapon it's pretty much impossible to kill someone in a vehicle. It's crap. It turned UT into a GTA/Twisted Metal genre.

Impossible? Hardly. Tricky? Perhaps. But still, I think you'd find it rather easier if you spent more time learning how to use some of the other weapons properly.
If its a good vehicle map, then it will have the right weapons in it for dealing with vehicles properly. Dont forget, anyone can make maps besides the game makers themselves. Some maps are just badly designed, vehicles or not.

PS, Comparing UT2004 with GTA??

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by Sbtrfuge 

My point is unless you have a specific anti vehicle weapon it's pretty much impossible to kill someone in a vehicle.

I think you're basically right. I think it also makes sense. Should a guy with a machine gun be able to stop a tank by himself? No.

For the most part, I only leave my vehicle out of necessity; usually to build nodes or use my AVRiL. Or, to abandon ship when my vehicle is almost destroyed.

[Leonard]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

I think you're basically right. I think it also makes sense. Should a guy with a machine gun be able to stop a tank by himself? No.

That's what I hated about Halo... you could kill a guy in the tank with one sniper shot , or if you were good, you could kill the guy in the tank with a few pistol shots. WTF! How can you kill a guy in a tank with a pistol? Thankfully you can't do it in Unreal.

No, I really think Onslaught in UT2004 is close to the original UT2004. Makes you take your time and strategically work as a team, except for on the smaller maps.

[Sbtrfuge]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

I think you're basically right. I think it also makes sense. Should a guy with a machine gun be able to stop a tank by himself? No.

For the most part, I only leave my vehicle out of necessity; usually to build nodes or use my AVRiL. Or, to abandon ship when my vehicle is almost destroyed.

Exactly. Walking on foot is pointless. It's extremely slow, not manuverable compared to a vehicle, and it's hard to kill other vehicles.

Realistic? Sure.

But you might as well remove the FPV entirely and make UT into a game based on vehicular combat. Driving and flying and shooting from the vehicles is just so bloody awkward in this game that it's like a completely different game, similar to GTA, twisted metal, Interstate 76, or countless other games where you have vehicles to drive around and shoot from. One with 'mad ut skill' from years of practice would suddenly be total cannon fodder to anybody with a vehicle, and I think that sucks.

The original UT was so fun because for the most part, the weapons were pretty balanced. Almost any weapon was great once you discovered how to use it right. In UT2k4, this is not the case.

[Sbtrfuge]

Originally Posted by Grrr 

PS, Comparing UT2004 with GTA??

Have you played GTA? The majority of the game is spent trying to find a vehicle in which to either attack someone with, or evade people chasing you. UT2k4 is the same thing. In any onslaught map you run as fast as you can to get the best vehicle, then try to attack from inside the vehicle, sometimes your vehicle gets damaged which majorly sucks because you're pretty much a sitting duck, so you have to find another one really quickly before someone kills you.

GTA is the same thing, only with cops, and instead of tanks and weird hovercraft thing, it's cars most of the time.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by Sbtrfuge 

But you might as well remove the FPV entirely and make UT into a game based on vehicular combat. Driving and flying and shooting from the vehicles is just so bloody awkward in this game that it's like a completely different game, similar to GTA, twisted metal, Interstate 76, or countless other games where you have vehicles to drive around and shoot from. One with 'mad ut skill' from years of practice would suddenly be total cannon fodder to anybody with a vehicle, and I think that sucks.

The original UT was so fun because for the most part, the weapons were pretty balanced. Almost any weapon was great once you discovered how to use it right. In UT2k4, this is not the case.

If you don't like Onslaught, I can't convince you. But "bloody awkward" ?? Sorry, but I've never felt that.

[macintologist]

Some weapons do well against vehicles. The right click shock-rifle is great against mantas and scorpions. The AVRIL does well against mantas and hellbenders. If you're cunning enough, you can point the avril missile upward and hide behind something, then appear at the last minute and focus on your target, which is awesome against tanks. The shock rifle is awesome against raptors.

[LagunaSol]

UT2004 was the best version by far; one of my favorite all-time games. Onslaught is multiplayer perfection.

But I cry when I hear the Scorpion is losing the plasma bolas. The Scorpion is the ultimate sleeper vehicle. No one takes it seriously, but it can be a fantastic asset if used right. The bolas rock!!!

[miserereiam]

Any word on whether or not this will take advantage of multi-processers?

[Leonard]

Yes, Unreal Tournament 2007 is based on the Unreal 3 Engine which does take advantage of multi-core and multi-processor computers. http://www.insidemacgames.com/news/story.php?ID=11005 The question is how much advantage of multi-cores and multi-processors will it take.