[graphiteman]

Does anyone know why the AppleInsider forums are down this time? They've been down for at least four days now.

[Macintosh]

I know. I think it may be because of Dorsal and his inside info. Apple legal anyone?

[Not_Dark_Yet]

Does ANYBODY still care whether AI is down or not?

I think only people who live in the past still hang out there. It's pathetic.

N_D_Y

[BRussell]

I wonder what their advertisers would think if they knew they were down all the time. Maybe someone should let their advertisers know.

[finboy]

Nah, if their advertisers don't check the site's hit rates and stuff, they DESERVE to pay for a down server.

But it might be a good idea to tell them (if they care -- they might not; the advertiser, that is -- may just be spending some angel's money and having a blast. It happens.).

[ 06-30-2001: Message edited by: finboy ]

[gorgonzola]

What Monish has told me to do in the past when the AI servers are down is to email [email protected] and notify that the server is down. Then they should be back up fairly soon.

I don't deal with AI, so please don't ask me any questions , but that's what I've heard is the best course of action.

[gwrjr33]

Originally posted by gorgonzola:
<STRONG>What Monish has told me to do in the past when the AI servers are down is to email [email protected] and notify that the server is down. Then they should be back up fairly soon.

I don't deal with AI, so please don't ask me any questions , but that's what I've heard is the best course of action.</STRONG>

I already sent an email. I did it yesterday. They are still down. Don't worry, Gorgonzola. I won't ask you any questions. It never does any good to ask anyway. MacNN owns AppleInsider but there's nobody there who will tell us anything. Everybody there has the "Who me?" routine down real good.

[elppa cam]

Originally posted by Not_Dark_Yet:
<STRONG>Does ANYBODY still care whether AI is down or not?

I think only people who live in the past still hang out there. It's pathetic.

N_D_Y</STRONG>

My carrier pigeon shall be arriving soon with my reply to this post...

Thank You

(any Canadians reading this... it's sarcasm)

[Not_Dark_Yet]

I am sorry, elppa cam, I don't quite get your drift on this one . . .

N_D_Y

[EmAn]

Originally posted by Macintosh:
<STRONG>I know. I think it may be because of Dorsal and his inside info. Apple legal anyone? </STRONG>

I doubt it. It's probably because the Cube and OS X that AI's running on keeps crashing.

[imacaholic]

Maybe Steve stuck his finger (most likely Apple legal fingers) in the dike and plugged the leak! Maybe we should start some rumors about AI. The world loves rumors, bring in the clowns!

[gorgonzola]

Originally posted by gwrjr33:
<STRONG>I already sent an email. I did it yesterday. They are still down. Don't worry, Gorgonzola. I won't ask you any questions. It never does any good to ask anyway. MacNN owns AppleInsider but there's nobody there who will tell us anything. Everybody there has the "Who me?" routine down real good.</STRONG>

Well, I have that routine down good because I'm technically not an employee. I just run the forums, but I don't do anything outside that, and I don't get paid, because forum work is unpaid work.

As a result, I don't deal with the hardware, the ISP, any of the AI people, any of the other sites on the network, the news, etc etc. I only know MacNN forums, and I'm technically not an employee because I'm not paid, and as a result I don't know.

Just to clear that up for the last time. I will try to get a hold of some people who do know though. I used to like AppleInsider forums myself, but I'm not in a position to do anything about it, unfortunately.

[Mac The Fork]

elppa cam -- no need to warn us evil folks aboot sarcasm! Carrier pigeons... hahahaha.

[ 07-01-2001: Message edited by: Mac The Fork ]

[MacAgent]

I sent an email too. Maybe if we all send emails they'll do something.

[AppleCello]

I just sent an email myself. but wait! If that server is down, maybe the email going to that domain is down as well??? This is something I wouldn't know directly, but would assume to be the case...

[OddManOut]

Originally posted by Not_Dark_Yet:
<STRONG>Does ANYBODY still care whether AI is down or not?

I think only people who live in the past still hang out there. It's pathetic.

N_D_Y</STRONG>

So true but I still care. It *was* a fantastic community and if they managed to stay up for few months some of the old members might come back

[elppa cam]

Originally posted by Not_Dark_Yet:
<STRONG>I am sorry, elppa cam, I don't quite get your drift on this one . . .

N_D_Y</STRONG>

Um... you said... "People who live in the past..."
Carrier pigeons = communication of the past = slow and unreliable = Appleinsider. Too much of a stretch?

I'll try harder.

[Not_Dark_Yet]

Rrrraiiiight, elppa cam.

Well, it had been a hot and muggy day . . .

I am with you noooowwww, in every way. Thanks.

N_D_Y

[foobars]

Originally posted by Not_Dark_Yet:
<STRONG>Does ANYBODY still care whether AI is down or not?

I think only people who live in the past still hang out there. It's pathetic.

N_D_Y</STRONG>

AI was great. Dorsal was the ONLY 100% reliable source of information on future hardware anywhere. For a community that's so obsessed with rumors he got surprisingly little attention.

[Not_Dark_Yet]

AI was great.

You said it, was.

It is just being driven out of existence by God knows what or whom. And nobody, absolutely nobody seems the slightest bit concerned or feel responsible. Also, no one seems to be prepared to fight. Not like here for instance, when some outsiders tried to take over. I have a feeling AI members are just a little too rapped up in themselves and are also living in the (admittedly glorious) past.

For all intents and purposes, AI is as dead as a dodo. Great shame, but there you go. Things change, and they certainly have there.

"If AI is down, send an e-mail . . ." Yeah sure thing. Might as well send one by default every day. What a waste of time that would be.

N_D_Y

[Bodhi]

The only person to blame for AI being down is Monish. Overall it is his responsibility.

[gwrjr33]

Originally posted by Not_Dark_Yet:
<STRONG>You said it, was.

It is just being driven out of existence by God knows what or whom. And nobody, absolutely nobody seems the slightest bit concerned...
</STRONG>

Not true. Of course every time somebody says something about it there's no shortage of MacNNers to tell us to shut up. Not that I'm blaming you guys for the situation. Bodhi said it right. It's Monish's fault. But you guys don't help much.

[Mandricard]

[el matteo]

I'm curious as to why when MacNNers go ape**** over someone "taking over" their forums it's "community," but when annoyed AIers politely suggest the boards not go down for days at a time, they are "living in the past." Remember...you're posting on a computer-related message board...you're not exactly in a position to make judgements about the way anyone else is living their life.

[Bodhi]

The fact is AI is owned and operated by MacNN which also owns and operates this board so AI is just as much of a part of MacNN as these boards are. I also do not understand this whole "us against them" thing here. Both of these boards are about Apple & Macintosh, why is there this perception that MacNN is fighting with AI??

Anyway, whoever is hosting this site for MacNN should be shot. and if MacNN is hosting it then fix the damn problem. I ask that Monish comment here and tell us why he is completely neglecting this important part of the MacNN family. The front page has not been updated since April. Then in June a notice was put us stating that it will be updated soon and to stay tuned...well that was a week and a half ago. If Kasper does not have the time to seek out sources or deal with tips and email, then MacNN should find someone who has the 'time' to do these duties.

Monish? Comments? We only ask because we care and we like the board, we just want you to tell us what is going on because the mods and admin's here and at AI know nothing because you are telling them nothing.

[BuonRotto]

Don't mind me. I'm just sitting in...


...

[gwrjr33]

Originally posted by Bodhi:
<STRONG>
Monish? Comments? We only ask because we care and we like the board, we just want you to tell us what is going on because the mods and admin's here and at AI know nothing because you are telling them nothing. </STRONG>

I don't know what they know or what they don't know and aren't telling. gorgonzola wrote this in another thread the other day:

And as for AppleInsider, no, it's not dead, nor will it be shut down entirely...

[hledgard]

Thank you Bohdi, I agree.

AI is my FAVORITE site!!

Where are you, AI???????

Dr. L

[Bodhi]

Gorgonzola wrote that he basically knows nothing and that you should just email [email protected] when it goes down. That ties in with my comment that the admins and mods for both sites really have no idea what is going on.

[elppa cam]

A.I. = Artificial Intelligence

A.I. = Artificial Internet

[Mandricard]

Well, for what it is worth, I sent AI a letter too. It seems like it would be easy if they simply set the fabled cube to restart at 3am every day or something.

Alas. Hope always springs eternal, but it is certainly no fun waiting.

Mandricard

[Not_Dark_Yet]

...but when annoyed AIers politely suggest the boards not go down for days at a time, they are "living in the past."

And what has this "politely suggesting" actually achieved? Absolutely nothing. Zilch. Zero.

Speaking as an ex-AI-poster myself, what I meant by "living in the past" was that it would perhaps be prudent for people to realise that AI is not going to recover/come back/or whatever. Or does anyone see signs for this not to be the case?

I just do not see the point of being allowed to post every once in a blue moon, at the mercy of who knows what. Friggin' waste of time that is.

Posters who still hang out at AI are just deluding themselves. Time to face facts. However, each to his/her own, I guess.

N_D_Y

[ZO]

hello all...

was hoping that the AI outage would be temp, but its taking longer than usual. I doubt Dorsal is to blame.

When Worker Bee spilled the beans, the forum was up n kicking. Plus, it takes a matter of seconds/minutes to delete a thread in case of legal pressure...

face it, as usual the AI people are getting screwed over.

[Eugene]

Speaking as an ex-AI-poster myself, what I meant by "living in the past" was that it would perhaps be prudent for people to realise that AI is not going to recover/come back/or whatever. Or does anyone see signs for this not to be the case?

What an ignorant statement. Sheesh. Why do you even use an Apple computer than? We Apple users are living in the past. Apple's never going to recover...

You see how absurd that sounds?

I don't keep in touch with Monish over e-mail, but some of the other AI mods/admins do. There has been some communication over the past few weeks, but none regarding the latest outage. An outage this long is suspect though. Perhaps a major change is on tap. Maybe they're changing hardware or upgrading software. I don't know.

AI's not dead until the right people say so.

[graphiteman]

Here's a possibility: maybe we're getting an upgrade to UBB 6 like the boards here at MacNN. I think that's the most likely reason for the outage. The only other thing I can think of is that someone is fixing the Memory Leak in perl on the cube.

[Not_Dark_Yet]

Why do you even use an Apple computer than?

What an absurd question.

My G4 works. The AI forums DON'T. And haven't for MONTHS now.

And what really makes it unacceptable, as has been pointed out by *many* disgruntled posters there, is that NOBODY EVER gives out any information as to what is going on. No one seems to know. No one seems to care.

AI's not dead until the right people say so.

Maybe the right people are the (cool) posters who have now left. Think about it.

As I said, there are the no signs whatsover that AI is going to recover. Unless you are saying the long outage is proof that something is happening. Sure thing . . .

N_D_Y

[gwrjr33]

Originally posted by Not_Dark_Yet:
<STRONG>
As I said, there are the no signs whatsover that AI is going to recover.</STRONG>

For some reason or other just before the boards went down this last time the speed was dramatically faster. Not much of a sign but it does suggest that someone was still tinkering with things over there. It really wouldn't take much for AI to recover. It's been so unreliable and Monish has been very uncommunicative. If the site was only run in a way that even vaguely resembled "normal" things would at least have a chance to recover. I don't like AI being down but even more I don't like the way we can't get any information from anyone. If you are going to kill it, Monish, the least you could do is tell us.

[Bodhi]

Not Dark yet-

I dont understand why you say that the AI boards are gone, cannot be recovered, are dead...etc. This is a website we are talking about, not someone with terminal cancer. Our frustration lies within this point...it's just a website and the fact that it is down as often as it is and as long as it is frustrates us because it would take about a day to seriously work on the server and fix the problems and possibly upgrade the board and then we would be smooth sailing. The fact that this is a website that is just blatantlly ignored by the people who own it frustrates us.

When AI is up and running it's as good as ever. If you haven't been there in a while than I would say that anyone who reads AI has a very very good idea of the very close to exact specs of the next G4's based on Dorsal. When the 667 & 733 chips started shipping from the Apple Store it was Motoman who told us at AI two days before that the chips were just qualified by Apple and there would be a press release. AI is just as fun as it ever was. Now if Monish could just take a day and get on some people's asses about the editorial content at AI and the server problems than we would not be having this discussion. It upsets me that since MacNN is a business and AI is a part of this business, no one is held accountable for the problems at AI.

Here's a possibility: maybe we're getting an upgrade to UBB 6 like the boards here at MacNN. I think that's the most likely reason for the outage.

They made that upgrade here at MacNN in a day, I doubt it's that. My guess is that the Cube has tipped over and is laying on its side in some back storeroom and no one has gone back there to stand it back up and restart it.

[Eugene]

What an absurd question.

My G4 works. The AI forums DON'T. And haven't for MONTHS now.

And what really makes it unacceptable, as has been pointed out by *many* disgruntled posters there, is that NOBODY EVER gives out any information as to what is going on. No one seems to know. No one seems to care."

Your G4 works? Well, does it work as well as a Dual Athlon4 1.2 GHz , with a 460 watt power supply, GeForce3, Hercules Game Theater XP, etc etc?

Does Apple work? Do I need to remind you Apple hasn't made a profit off its products for half a year, possibly longer?

I can list what I know was talked about for AI's forums:

Publicly, two things were announced...
1) There's a memory leak in perl...and nobody really wants to debug UBB code.
2) Mac OS X Server was to be installed on the machine.
3) more drastic measures brainstormed by the mods/admins ... separate from Monish's exploits.

Sometimes the behavior at AI is juvenile...but the usership here seems much more infantile to me...one reason why I usually stick to OS X Usage and Support.

[Bodhi]

2) Mac OS X Server was to be installed on the machine.

Now that makes a lot more sense than a 1.0 Operating System.


Here is a site that succesfully and smoothly moved over to being hosted on OSX. It just goes to show you that when you take the time and give a sh*t about something, you can do it properly.

[ 07-03-2001: Message edited by: Bodhi ]

[Fran441]

AI posters living in the past? Maybe so. But if we are, then there is good reason for our madness.

AppleInsider's forums have been around since late 1998. Some people have actually been posting since it opened (like me).

If MacNN's forums started going down little by little and you had been posting for a while, maybe you'd feel the same way as the AI 'refugees' do.

But maybe the MacNN forums just don't mean that much to the posters here. Maybe the MacNN posters would just 'move on' and stop 'living in the past' when the forums went down over and over. But as an AI poster who has been posting for 2 1/2 years, I know I don't want to 'move on'.

Where do you suggest the 'AI refugees' go? Should we all come here to MacNN? Apparently the AI crowd isn't very liked here, so that's not really an option.

Should we go to the MacMonkey UBB? Most topics there become a flame war, so we'll avoid that.

How about the MacAddict forums? While it is a Mac UBB, it doesn't really accomodate the AI crowd- not really a place to post rumors and other good Mac information.

If AppleInsider is meant to be up and running as a UBB, then why shouldn't we voice our opinions to those who are supposed to keep it up and running? How are we supposed to do this?

I, like most other AI posters, have emailed [email protected] without much luck. Therefore, when we want to get the attention of the MacNN admins, we are forced to come here to have our voices heard.

If the true goal of MacNN is to close down the AppleInsider forums permanently, I think that it owes the posters at least a message saying that they are gone and maybe even an explanation.

If the intention is to keep it up and running, then setting the Cube to reset daily isn't such a bad idea. Maybe it could help solve some of the problems of the forums (and it sure couldn't hurt).

I hope this isn't the end of the AI forums because if it is, it's the death of a great community.

[Bodhi]

Well put Fran.

Monish? Care to drop us some info??

[Mandricard]

I second Fran's emotion.



Mandricard
(Now a real AppleOutsider.)

[graphiteman]

I totally agree with Fran too.

[Kate]

The gradual fading of AI as a UBB site is lamentable, but what I find most unkind is the constant lack of info that the site is down and without giving an excuse or reason.

To make me feel completely angry there is this "Stay Tuned" message since these recent days where AI was down, up and now down again. It is like playing the fool.

Before we had some weeks of "We are upgrading", please!
Not too nice a stance if you ask me.

On the other hand, when we are here at MacNN anyway in such numbers, why not accommodate to this place and make it a new home?

Not that I propose an unfriendly takeover or suchlike, just being enough people to add part of "our" culture to that of MacNN. We are in general not less civilized than the MacNN posters.

Since the last uptime of AI I found less traffic and less posters and much less "old faces" there than I found to feel comfortable with, so if the unlikely event of AI rising again may happen, I doubt it to regain the former state anyway.

So welcome to the new world and we won't behave as Columbus or the Spanish Conquerors , won't we?

[scottiB]

It wouldn't suprise me to see an "AppleInsider Refugee" area of the MacNN forums....or perhaps a "Dorsal Speaks."

[Not_Dark_Yet]

Your G4 works? Well, does it work as well as a Dual Athlon4 1.2 GHz , with a 460 watt power supply, GeForce3, Hercules Game Theater XP, etc etc?

It does the job I bought it for, and if it didn't, I would get a machine that does, although what this has got to to do with the state that AI is in, I fail to see.

Does Apple work? Do I need to remind you Apple hasn't made a profit off its products for half a year, possibly longer?

What are you on about? See above

I can list what I know was talked about for AI's forums:

Yeah, sure, you maybe talked about it amongst *yourselves*. Did you also smoke cigars? Drank wine? Talk about the weather too?

"Memory leak in Perl, OS X Server installed, drastic measures, brainstorms" . . . what kinda bull**** is all this? AI is/was a friggin' COMPUTER SITE, no? Get it to work, or just close it down. Officially. And have the courtesy to inform the posters who made the forums what they were of what is going on. Nobody at AI comes out of this with any credibilty whatsoever. Could no one see the frustration of the posters?

The uninitiated reading your comments would think that all is hunky dory. Just a minor glitch. Don't worry, things will get back to what they were. Stick with us.

Time to take a reality check, Eugene.

AI goes down for weeks for an official major overhaul (ha, bloody, ha) and what is the result? Lost posts, lost names, lost passwords... Any explanations forthcoming? Of course not, as a consequence of which posters leave.

The forums get slower and slower by the day. Any word to enlighten the faithful? Of course not. Posters leave. Do alarm bells ring anywhere amongst the inner circle to which you belong? Nope.

The forums go down again and again. Are explanation given? No. More posters leave. Any action taken by anyone on the adminstrative side? No.

And then, when people come here to express their frustration with the way things are being run, or rather not run at AI, you have the temerety to talk about juvenile behaviour. I do not know what exactly moderators on AI are supposed to be doing, but I get the feeling that they did sweet f.a. about the ever worsening situation. Someone must be responsible. Just where does the buck stop at AI?

Perhaps you can tell me exactly how a once truly dynamic site - and I mean the forums side of it - has become the laughing stock of the Apple community? And just in case you are too wrapped up, I shall tell you: It's dying of neglect from the people who are supposed to look after it.

AI was lucky that it had a very loyal community, that was prepared to forgive a lot, but it's evident that many posters have now been pushed too far by the apathy emanating from the admin. side, and that there may not be too much left for you to moderate, Eugene, when AI cranks up again.

"AI is not dead until the right people say so". Just who are the right people, Eugene? Where does the buck stop?

N_D_Y

[TheJoshu]

Now, as a longtime AI forums visitor (but not a poster), I agree that it's about time it returns... why can't the MacNN people create a board for AI, called "AppleInsider Lounge" or "AppleInsider Rumors" or something like that? Obviously it won't be the same; but I don't see why it couldn't be done as a temporary measure just until things are working again. Unless perhaps that would create too much of a strain on the MacNN server?

It's pure speculation that the AI forums have dropped off the face of the earth, and nothing more. I believe that nobody is paying enough attention to them; but that doesn't mean that they'd just disappear without a trace.

[groverat]

NDY:

"Get it to work, or just close it down. Officially. And have the courtesy to inform the posters who made the forums what they were of what is going on."

Exactly what we're asking for.

The buck stops with Monish. He has physical access to the server ( ) or at least can get the thing restarted when it crashes. What the hell are the moderators supposed to do? Do you think all the moderators here can physically restart the server that hosts these forums if it were to crash?

And the "right" people are those who control AI, once again, Monish, who has said on multiple occassions that AI isn't going to get shut down. So when the person in charge says they'll be back up and they aren't up in a long time what's the logical thing to do?

[Not_Dark_Yet]

What the hell are the moderators supposed to do?

How is, passing on what is happening to the powers that be? How is, passing on information on a regular basis to the posters? Again, by comparison, when there were "minor" problems here a little while back, how come things got sorted out so quickly? How come information was passed on (both ways) on a an almost hourly basis? Maybe the difference is, that a fighting spirit exist here, where it doesn't at AI. I refer to my earlier observation that posters there seem to exist in the (glorious) long gone past.

who has said on multiple occassions that AI isn't going to get shut down.

So, what is it now, if not shut down?

So when the person in charge says they'll be back up and they aren't up in a long time what's the logical thing to do?

You got me there. Send an e-mail?

N_D_Y