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You are here: MacNN Forums > Enthusiast Zone > Art & Graphic Design > Give me the low down on music editing

Give me the low down on music editing
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Majexto
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Sep 28, 2005, 03:05 PM
 
I am interested in hooking up my electric guitar to a computer, recording the music from there, and then editing it in some kind of software (Garage-band maybe?).

I was wondering how a mac compares to a p.c. in this department, performance wise to the cost. What is the lowest end computer I can by to do this with out it being a pain.

Is garage band a program which would be good for this, or is that more of mixing? What programs are good for this in windows.

Thanks
     
sonicularulus
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Sep 28, 2005, 07:05 PM
 
to tell you the truth, i think the mac will own any pc for any type of editing because it is literally ready to do it out of the box. With a mac, it comes ready with garageband. Garageband is literally a band creation tool without the need of a band. You work alone, but with different "digital instruments" available within the software itself, you can create any masterpiece you want. IT ISNT A MUSIC EDITING TOOL. it is a music creation tool. if you want to edit music, you need logic. if you want to edit sound, you need soundtrack.
     
k_munic
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Sep 29, 2005, 04:03 AM
 
I totally disagree with sonic....
You need a Mac mini, and an "audio in interface" (starting from 50ยข, iMic Grffin) - you're done.
Garageband is very intuitive (not every musician is an engineer); esp. for the guitarist, it has lots of build in "amp simulators", some basic sound effetcs (echo, flanger, reverbs).
and for the solo artists it has a companion combo built in (e.g. to train timing, you can very easy create a "click track" with some basic drums etc)
GB accepts the import of ready-made midi files, in case you want to exercise some reday-made music...
the latest version even has some basic "notes ouptut" for midi files, in case you want to share some selfwritten music (you have to play in buy keyboard...) with other musicians.

the editing options are basic, but GB is a multitrack recorder, you should be able to record 8 - 10 "analogue records" with a mini (get a 1GB version) and edit the parts together you like (and trash the others...).

Logic is an audio-production suite...- maybe some overkill for your needs...-

I recommend a hands-on experience withGB in shome music-shop...- (<< not easy to find)

PS: hey, and GB has a nice "export to iTunes" option...-with a click, your tracks are on iPod or CD..
     
sonicularulus
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Sep 29, 2005, 07:27 PM
 
the apple store i go to has a setup dedicated for Garageband. Check your local apple store or fry's electronics.
i have played around with garageband a bit and found it leaning more towards the recording side that is why i called it the music creation tool.
notice, i said logic. depending on how much editing power he wants, he can either go with express or pro. never actually played with it, but i hear its a good music production tool.
     
Super Glitcher
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Oct 4, 2005, 09:59 AM
 
IF you're just starting, go with GarageBand - it's cheap and will be a fast indicator
of whether you'll need/want more features. After that I'd step up to Logic Express.
I've used Cubase, DP, PT and Logic for sometime now and much prefer Logic.

The mini is definitely the cheapest computer you'd want to use to do this, but if
you can possibly afford something faster it is highly recommended. I'd try to dig
up an old single 1.8 G5 on ebay...
"Thank you Mario, but our princess is in another castle."
     
Doofy
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Oct 4, 2005, 10:59 AM
 
Originally Posted by Majexto
I am interested in hooking up my electric guitar to a computer, recording the music from there, and then editing it in some kind of software (Garage-band maybe?).

I was wondering how a mac compares to a p.c. in this department, performance wise to the cost. What is the lowest end computer I can by to do this with out it being a pain.

Is garage band a program which would be good for this, or is that more of mixing? What programs are good for this in windows.
As it sounds like you don't actually have the computer you're intending to do this on, I'd say go for a hardware-based setup. Something like a Korg D1600 will do what you want.
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
Super Glitcher
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Oct 5, 2005, 01:27 AM
 
Granted a mac and software would cost a little more than a Korg D1600-
but the expandability and ease of use (editing on a REAL monitor) are well
worth it. I've spent my share of time on a Roland V studio and compared
even with an older beige box G3 tower it's also, even on cheap
apps like GarageBand you're going to get accessibility to virtual instruments
(synths, drums, sampels etc.) that you'll have NO option for on an outboard
'recording workstation'.

If you actually need to lay down 8 tracks at once there's plenty of firewire
interfaces out there, but from the sounds of it you're needs aren't there
yet.

If you're even half-way serious about recording on a computer, get a mac.
Again, I suggest getting a used G5 - even a used G4 tower would be
better than a mac mini. You've got benefits like bus speed, ram expandability,
PCI expandability and internal storage options on a tower that you wont get
in a mini. I'm sure there's plenty of used G4/G5 towers on eBay - go for it.
You can probably score a used version of Logic on there too...

'Do it now!'
"Thank you Mario, but our princess is in another castle."
     
mattsgotredhair
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Oct 5, 2005, 01:57 AM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy
As it sounds like you don't actually have the computer you're intending to do this on, I'd say go for a hardware-based setup. Something like a Korg D1600 will do what you want.
1) The absurdity of your signature is absolutely incredible.
2) Buying a standalone digital recorder like the one you have suggested is total step in the wrong the direction.
maybe you've been brainwashed too.
     
Doofy
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Oct 5, 2005, 08:32 AM
 
Originally Posted by mattsgotredhair
1) The absurdity of your signature is absolutely incredible.
That's the point.

Originally Posted by mattsgotredhair
2) Buying a standalone digital recorder like the one you have suggested is total step in the wrong the direction.
Hey, just throwing an idea out there. If the guy's halfway serious he certainly doesn't want to go anywhere near GarageBand (which is, all said and done, a toy). Plus, if he's a guitarist (rather than a virtual synth techno geek) a hardware based set-up is the way to go.
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
Super Glitcher
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Oct 5, 2005, 07:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy
Hey, just throwing an idea out there. If the guy's halfway serious he certainly doesn't want to go anywhere near GarageBand (which is, all said and done, a toy).
Right... your saying go with hardware based because GarageBand is the only music app?




Originally Posted by Doofy
Plus, if he's a guitarist (rather than a virtual synth techno geek) a hardware based set-up is the way to go.
And why exactly is that? I'd r e a l l y like to know...
"Thank you Mario, but our princess is in another castle."
     
analogika
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Oct 5, 2005, 11:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy
That's the point.



Hey, just throwing an idea out there. If the guy's halfway serious he certainly doesn't want to go anywhere near GarageBand (which is, all said and done, a toy).
It's also a brilliant scratch pad to throw together fair-sounding sketches very very quickly.

It's also upwardly compatible to Logic Express, which is NOT a toy, and ultimately Logic Pro, as experience and needs progress, without being limited as much by the closed system of a hard disk recorder.

GarageBand is also something the average newbie can actually operate, which puts it above most other options out there.

Especially since if he got a hard disk recorder, he'd still have a computer sitting around for internet stuff and everything else. With a Mac and GarageBand, that's significantly less hardware.
     
Doofy
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Oct 6, 2005, 12:45 AM
 
Originally Posted by Super Glitcher
And why exactly is that? I'd r e a l l y like to know...
Because every guitarist I've ever taught to use music tech (that's about 120 of them) found it easier and faster to use a hardware based setup. Simple as that. If the guy was a keyboard player I'd say go with the computer setup.

Plus, of course, Korg amp modelling is just about the best modelling out there. If you're into that kind of thing.
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
Super Glitcher
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Oct 6, 2005, 10:18 AM
 
I'm sure all 120 of them went right out and grabbed a korg!!
I mean if I had some guy sitting there puking hype down my throat,
telling me that it was the 'way to go' and that only tecno nerds used
computers you think I'd even consider using anything else?

There's a lot of personal 'taste' involved in guitar tones... I'm sure Korg makes
a nice modeling engine, but don't try to tell me it's going to be more flexible
or easier to use than a software based solution. I'm using NI Guitar Rig and it
just blows away any and every hardware based anything I've ever used, and I've
been recording guitar for almost 10 years now... granted- if you're using an
in-box amp modeler you should really be 're-amping' the signal.. nothing beats
a real cabinet and mic - but that's just personal taste...

Honestly, how long has it been since you've worked at a computer
based workstation? Maybe you should refamiliarize yourself with it
and see what's out there. I'm not saying these hardware based units suck
or that all you can make on them is crap, just that to compare them
with a computer doesn't make any sense. The quality isn't any better
and the feature set isn't and wont ever be comparable. It doesn't really
matter what instrument you play - if you want to record, it's about
what the solution has to offer you and how intuitive it is to use. I've used
both systems extensively, and I will continue to use a computer based
system until there's something better.
"Thank you Mario, but our princess is in another castle."
     
Doofy
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Oct 6, 2005, 10:57 AM
 
Originally Posted by Super Glitcher
I'm sure all 120 of them went right out and grabbed a korg!!
I mean if I had some guy sitting there puking hype down my throat,
telling me that it was the 'way to go' and that only tecno nerds used
computers you think I'd even consider using anything else?.
I wasn't puking hype at them. Hardware units and computer setups were available. They simply took to the hardware units more easily.

Originally Posted by Super Glitcher
I've been recording guitar for almost 10 years now....
20 years professionally, if we're playing the numbers game.

Originally Posted by Super Glitcher
Honestly, how long has it been since you've worked at a computer
based workstation?.
Four days.

Originally Posted by Super Glitcher
if you want to record, it's about what the solution has to offer you and how intuitive it is to use.
That's what I'm saying. Most guitarists seem to prefer hardware based stuff because it's easier for them to adjust to - it's more intuitive to them.

Hell, even folks like Vai and Satriani use hardware based-stuff a lot of the time.
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
Super Glitcher
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Oct 6, 2005, 04:32 PM
 
Hey man, I'm not saying it isn't easy to use, my perspective is and
has been features/expansion to cost based. My 10 years isn't an ego
thing - it's 'I'm a guitarist and I've used both, but I like computer
better'. It is much easier to just sit down out of the box at a vstudio
and go - but at the same time you will be limited in a lot of areas
where a computer compensates. Vai and Satchmo use all-in-one
hd recorders, sure - but at the same time these guys are ultra
specialists and have a LOT of other outboard gear that, if you're an
independant musician or are working with a small group chances
are you don't have and can't afford access too - which is where a
computer based solution makes all the difference.

In the end HW and computer based systems record the same digital
image. It's what you do with that image and what you're options are
that are going to be important. IMHO a computer offers much more.

HW based is great at what it does.. but to me, it just doesn't do enough
with what else is out there. My workflow is very centralized, and very
portable, it's easy to upgrade and has tremendous multi-function capability.

I'm not trying to presume what's best for everyone by any means.
I know what works for me and the people I know - I know my way
around the gear I use really well and I would rec. to anyone to go
computer based, it's just my opinion. Personally I think that HW
based recorders are on the way out. As computers become more
centralized and more powerful to the public, the need for these
proprietary units will go away. You've really been able to see this
trend over the last few years. 5 years ago my opinion would have been
much different, but computer power is cheaper, the software is MUCH
better and I think you'll really start to see this take hold industry wide.

Hope that clarifies a little.
"Thank you Mario, but our princess is in another castle."
     
Doofy
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Oct 6, 2005, 04:51 PM
 
Fair enough.

Just giving the guy a heads-up that there's other stuff available which may be better for him. I guess he'll have to go get some hands-on to see what he prefers.
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
Super Glitcher
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Oct 6, 2005, 08:15 PM
 
true dat.

"Thank you Mario, but our princess is in another castle."
     
Graeme C
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Oct 27, 2005, 01:58 AM
 
Hi guys
this is my 1st post to this forum so be nice lol.

Thought i would throw my two cents worth into the equation as i have been recording on both mac / pc and external Hardware profesionally for some 15 yrs.

The dudes orignal post was about PRICE POINT.

As the entry price for a basic pc with keyboard / monitor / mouse etc with more than enough grunt to handle any audio app is very low - See Dell online for really cheap desktops
Add a decent soundcard.... still considerably cheaper than even a mac mini, with no monitor keyboard and very sub standard audio out. We are talking less than $750 Au.
Mac minis start at $799 here. No keyboard etc...

Yes i know Garage band is bundled and its getting better... but its really not that great in comparisoon to either Cubase LE or Logic Lite.
If you then add into all this, the availabilty of FREE VST instruments etc both Cubase / Logic beats Garage band hands down, especially if he wants to get his productions up to a more "playable" level.
Both have more to offer and will give far better results once he gets his head round them.
He will easilly be able to find either of them bundled with a decent sound card.

My opinion on this is, THATS where he should be spending most of his money.
A simple fact is that he does need a decent sound card, with a single midi interface at the very least. Cant add keys without a keyboard....
Well you can use a mouse and computer keyboard but its hard work..
Regardless of how he tweaks his actual recording, the audio out of a standard Pc and Mac is crap and thats also a sad fact.
Standard Computers are for playing back pre-recorded music, and are NOT designed to let you hear the errors that can make your recordings sound like ****.

(Nothing ive found... depresses a starting Muso / producer more than sub-standard playback of what he sweated blood extracting from his guitar of keyboard.... im not even going to get into the recording process here )

Couple that to the annoyance of working with mini jacks.. ugh...
Have you ever tried to input a guitar into anything via a mini jack plug?
Add more cost to buying and having to keep track of jack converters... so easy to loose... and so easy to add yet more noise into the recording process.
He needs a decent sound interface.

An Mbox for example comes bundled with Protools LE and some of the best mastering plugins from the likes of Blue Tubes and Lexicon available on the market either in hardware or sofwear systems.

As for External Hardwear recorders, they are way more expensive than the cheapest PC softwear / souncard equivelent. You cant argue that fact, irrespective of how "easy" they may be to use for the average "dumb" muso. As this guy is probably not the same ripe old age, or has the same amount of cash spare as mssrs Santana etc its a moot point as to whether he would prefer to use them, Remember his question was about PRICE.

So Sobbery aside here, as i love my dual G5 2.7 way more than my 3 ghz AMD PC.
He really should be thinking PC.
PRICE is why 90% of the world is on PC not Mac.


Graeme C.
     
templetalker
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Oct 27, 2005, 05:16 AM
 
I'm a beginner, have been for 8 years, and when I switched to Apple from PC back in 2001, musically I kept my PC around for the use of SOUND FORGE.

Today it's the same ol' story, I have a G4 laptop, and a hugeeee PC tower and Sony monitor taking up space just so I can use the quick, nimble, artistic, and simple Sound Forge 7.0

I've used all the sound apps out there on Apple, oh my moses they don't hold a candle to Sound Forge to this day, not Peak, not Logic Express or Pro or DP or Sound Studio....

Man it truly sucks...I wish this wasn't the case
     
Armas
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Oct 29, 2005, 03:59 AM
 
Originally Posted by templetalker
I'm a beginner, have been for 8 years, and when I switched to Apple from PC back in 2001, musically I kept my PC around for the use of SOUND FORGE.

Today it's the same ol' story, I have a G4 laptop, and a hugeeee PC tower and Sony monitor taking up space just so I can use the quick, nimble, artistic, and simple Sound Forge 7.0

I've used all the sound apps out there on Apple, oh my moses they don't hold a candle to Sound Forge to this day, not Peak, not Logic Express or Pro or DP or Sound Studio....

Man it truly sucks...I wish this wasn't the case

Now I've heard everything (!) Wow!!!
BUY AAPL STOCK! It will be going WAYYY UP!
     
Armas
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Oct 29, 2005, 04:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by Majexto
I am interested in hooking up my electric guitar to a computer, recording the music from there, and then editing it in some kind of software (Garage-band maybe?).

I was wondering how a mac compares to a p.c. in this department, performance wise to the cost. What is the lowest end computer I can by to do this with out it being a pain.

Is garage band a program which would be good for this, or is that more of mixing? What programs are good for this in windows.

Thanks
Um, what sort of guitar? You want to edit it, what specifically do you mean? Like solo guitar, maybe fix a bad note? What do you intend to do with this recorded/ edited music?
If it's solo guitar, and it's for...examples used in guitar lessons...or scratch pad ideas, just to get the ideas across.....or are you thinking play chords, add bass, keys, drums, vocals, FX, compress, EQ, Master, and sell on iTunes Music Store?

There are so many variables... I mean, if you are using a computer, especially a Mac, it's basic mic will work fine.... and I imagine Windows wont give free software...

I'll just say at Berklee Music College ( like where Steve Vai went to school ) they often used 7 year old Mac's ( the largest network of computer music workstations on Earth, jointly maintained by Apple, Digidesign, Korg, Mackie, Opcode systems <now Logic > )
Sometimes we had to arrange a song, record all notes, chords, percussion, print music score, record to tape/CD, and turn in in 24 hours.... This was VERY difficult, perhaps impossible, using people, and recording live... but if you were hell bent, didn't sleep, and had musicians & studio ready....maybe....but it really opened your eyes to see what could be done, so quickly, on a Mac + Synth + Tape/CD + sound card ( or built in Audio )

I'm using a PB G4 right now. I recall some saying 16bit/44.1KHz 1/8" stereo plug was.... Horrible! But, 10 YEARS ago, Deck II $199 - made any Mac a multi-track studio...and that was remarkable. It wasn't that bad, considering the frequency response of electromagnetic pick ups in a guitar - 80Hz low E to 1320Hz bending a Highest note UP to E. ( add piezo acoustic & different, etc.)

This is last gen. 17" 1.67 ( same speed, but not new screen just released ) It has 24 bit / 96 KHz Spidf Input & Output BUILT IN!! Also, 16 & 24 bit Analog up to 96KHz! Removing "Sound Mangler" ;-) and Core Audio's OS level 32 bit 10,000KHz audio rezolution & MIDI - Windows does not have this stuff!!
If the OLD 1/8" stereo input was bad ( and say 12 years old ) that IS NOT the case today! 24/96 SPDIF I/O - buying an adapter for 5 bucks & using the free GB 2 on whatever Mac MINI or eMac would be the cheapest - with FAR better than CD quality recording.....

But yeah, what did you want to do "Recording"? GB has basic recording, EDIT, FX, tempo/pitch tools, plus loops, virtual instruments, etc. Is that what you had in mind, or....???
BUY AAPL STOCK! It will be going WAYYY UP!
     
analogika
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Oct 29, 2005, 01:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by Armas
Now I've heard everything (!) Wow!!!
Really?

I've actually heard this from a lot of pro musicians who've switched to Macintosh.
     
macanon
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Oct 29, 2005, 07:25 PM
 
Maybe I should keep that old PC I was about to kick out for Soundforge.
     
   
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