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subego · Oct 4, 2011, 03:18 PM

Hank Williams Jr. apologizes for Hitler-Obama comparison - CNN.com

Didn't Madonna do this with McCain? Okay, fake question. I started a thread on that too.

Dumbasses.

The Final Dakar · Oct 4, 2011, 03:26 PM

The way he kept with it and dished it out in that interview, if I had any respect for the guy I'd just have lost it for him backing down. You already lost the MNF gig, dude.

subego · Oct 4, 2011, 04:08 PM

Good point. It's already cratered.

subego · Oct 4, 2011, 04:11 PM

I'm still a little curious what this guy thinks America is if he sees the Speaker and the President as that opposite from each other.

The Final Dakar · Oct 4, 2011, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by subego

I'm still a little curious what this guy thinks America is if he sees the Speaker and the President as that opposite from each other.

I've seen it pointed out on more than one forum that this guy wrote a song in the 80s that was title something like "What if the South had Won?"

olePigeon · Oct 4, 2011, 04:43 PM

There's a mockumentary about an alternate timeline where the south won. I don't remember what it's called. Overall it was kind of dumb, but they had a few fake commercials throughout that were pretty damn funny. One was for an insurance company talking about coverage for your home (classic white picket fence house), family (mom, dad, 2 kids), and property (black guy pruning hedges.)

subego · Oct 5, 2011, 12:08 AM

I'm a little confused what victory conditions we're talking about.

Does the South "winning" mean they stayed a confederacy, or they torched Washington?

CRASH HARDDRIVE · Oct 5, 2011, 12:56 AM

Is that really a serious question?

Stayed a confederacy.

subego · Oct 5, 2011, 01:16 AM

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE

Is that really a serious question?

Yer darn tootin'!

CRASH HARDDRIVE · Oct 5, 2011, 02:38 AM

Ironically, torching Washington seems to be a losing condition, not victory.

See: The British, 1814.

ebuddy · Oct 5, 2011, 08:19 PM

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar

The way he kept with it and dished it out in that interview, if I had any respect for the guy I'd just have lost it for him backing down. You already lost the MNF gig, dude.

Paco500 · Oct 6, 2011, 11:59 AM

This seems to me a classic case of blowing things way out of proportion. The way I read his comment, he was just saying that the two (Obama and Boehner) were polar opposites, like for example, Hitler and Netanyahu. He touched the Hitler dynamite, which was dumb, but I didn't read it as him comparing Obama to Hitler.

And I like Obama a lot more than I like H.W. Jr. Mountains out of molehills methinks.

OAW · Oct 6, 2011, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by Paco500

This seems to me a classic case of blowing things way out of proportion. The way I read his comment, he was just saying that the two (Obama and Boehner) were polar opposites, like for example, Hitler and Netanyahu. He touched the Hitler dynamite, which was dumb, but I didn't read it as him comparing Obama to Hitler.

And I like Obama a lot more than I like H.W. Jr. Mountains out of molehills methinks.

Agreed. But in this day and age making any kind of "Hitler" reference publicly is like playing with fire in and of itself. Because even if he meant it the way you surmised (and I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt on that) .... the question then becomes who's "Hitler" in the reference? Obama or Boehner? And that is why making such a reference in conjunction with the POTUS is just incredibly stupid.

He played with fire and he got burned. I for one won't be losing any sleep over it. Dumb ass.

OAW

subego · Oct 6, 2011, 03:57 PM

"When one of the Fox News interviewers later pointed out that Williams invoked 'one of the most hated people in all of the world to describe ... the president,' Williams responded: "That is true, but I'm telling you like it is, you know...'"

Sounds like he had a wide open chance to clarify, but didn't.

Double dog dumbass.

And BTW, "I tell it like it is" is code for "I'm an asshole".

The Final Dakar · Oct 6, 2011, 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by subego

Double dog dumbass.

Go read his "resignation" from ESPN.

subego · Oct 6, 2011, 04:06 PM

Do you have a link? Google's algorithm thinks a search for "Hank Williams Jr. Resignation" means I want stuff about Steve Jobs.

In the meantime:

"Yeah, I don't understand that analogy, actually," co-host Brian Kilmeade said.

"Well, I'm glad you don't, brother, because a lot of people do," Hank Jr. said. "You know, they're the enemy. They're the enemy."

Kilmeade: "Who's the enemy?"

"Obama! And Biden! Are you kidding? The Three Stooges."

SpaceMonkey · Oct 6, 2011, 05:09 PM

Are you ready for some football?

subego · Oct 6, 2011, 05:20 PM

Joel and Mike are like Hitler and Netanyahu.

Some people might not get that analogy, and I'm glad they don't. Many do.

olePigeon · Oct 6, 2011, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by subego

"Obama! And Biden! Are you kidding? The Three Stooges."

I'm a little rusty at math, but, don't you generally need three people for that?

subego · Oct 6, 2011, 05:42 PM

Hillary Clinton is Shemp Hitler.

CRASH HARDDRIVE · Oct 7, 2011, 05:28 AM

I thought she was Curly Joe Stalin.

subego · Oct 7, 2011, 06:13 AM

Oh puh-leeze...

On a good day, Curly Joe may rate a Trotsky.

ghporter · Oct 7, 2011, 06:44 AM

I finally got to hear what Williams said. He didn't compare anyone specifically to anyone else. Instead, he compared pairing Obama and Behner in golf with pairing Hitler and Netanyahu in golf, as in "talk about extreme ends of the spectrum!". VERY bad choice of names for his analogy, but not saying either Obama or Behner "was like" Hitler.

I can understand why ESPN felt the need to permanently distance itself from Williams because of this, but if the public and the media would actually pay attention to the actual quote in context, they probably wouldn't have had to do anything like this. Say something with poorly chosen words on camera, and expect to have to explain yourself. But say something stupid and then have a multi-decade commercial relationship fall apart because your stupid line isn't even heard in context, is stupider than Hank's analogy.

subego · Oct 7, 2011, 07:08 AM

What context is missing from "they're the enemy"?

CRASH HARDDRIVE · Oct 7, 2011, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by subego

Oh puh-leeze...

On a good day, Curly Joe may rate a Trotsky.

Clearly Three Stooges was an inappropriate comparison.

Obama is a Marx Brother.

quesera · Oct 7, 2011, 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by ghporter

if the public and the media would actually pay attention to the actual quote in context, they probably wouldn't have had to do anything like this. Say something with poorly chosen words on camera, and expect to have to explain yourself. But say something stupid and then have a multi-decade commercial relationship fall apart because your stupid line isn't even heard in context, is stupider than Hank's analogy.

With the media and the media-consuming public, this is a family tradition. Manufactured scandal to fit an ever-shrinking and self-referential news cycle.

Anyway, Ole Bocephus ought to apologize for the shit that he calls music.

His Daddy, on the other hand, is one of my favorites.

ghporter · Oct 7, 2011, 08:47 PM

Originally Posted by subego

What context is missing from "they're the enemy"?

That they are each other's diametrical opposites. The entire exchange makes it clear that the pairing with a person from the completely different end of a spectrum was Williams' point, not that either American politician "was like" Hitler. Headlines, on the other hand, painted Williams as having indicated he meant the president was like Hitler.

Leaving out the whole exchange but for the few snippets that were shouted from the rooftops let the news media twist a simply stupid analogy into something it never was- political slander. It was an observation of political differences, but to hear all the news, it was treason.

subego · Oct 7, 2011, 09:09 PM

Originally Posted by ghporter

That they are each other's diametrical opposites. The entire exchange makes it clear that the pairing with a person from the completely different end of a spectrum was Williams' point, not that either American politician "was like" Hitler. Headlines, on the other hand, painted Williams as having indicated he meant the president was like Hitler.

Leaving out the whole exchange but for the few snippets that were shouted from the rooftops let the news media twist a simply stupid analogy into something it never was- political slander. It was an observation of political differences, but to hear all the news, it was treason.

It's like you're watching some other video.

He's asked "who's the enemy?" and then raises his voice to say "Obama". He clearly thinks it's so obvious who the enemy is he's irritated at needing to clarify.

So, yeah. He's talking about diametrical opposites, one of whom is the enemy.

screener · Oct 8, 2011, 04:59 AM

Originally Posted by subego

Do you have a link? Google's algorithm thinks a search for "Hank Williams Jr. Resignation" means I want stuff about Steve Jobs.

Hank Williams Jr. quits espn - Google Search

screener · Oct 8, 2011, 05:01 AM

Originally Posted by subego

It's like you're watching some other video.

Kinda like you read into what someone says, posts, what you want to.

ghporter · Oct 8, 2011, 09:31 AM

Originally Posted by subego

It's like you're watching some other video.

He's asked "who's the enemy?" and then raises his voice to say "Obama". He clearly thinks it's so obvious who the enemy is he's irritated at needing to clarify.

So, yeah. He's talking about diametrical opposites, one of whom is the enemy.

One of whom is HIS enemy politically, but again, context is important. "The enemy" is a separate statement from the analogy. It's clear in the whole exchange that this is the case-the analogy is completely separate from his expression that he thinks the president is politically HIS enemy (and it's also clear that Williams thinks his own personal take on "what's best for the country" is the only possible take).

I'm in no way defending Williams for his stupid statement. But I think that this was a "10 minute report with plenty of discussion of how it played out" instead of a "2 minute, sound bite headline played as serious reporting." Hank Williams Jr. displayed an immense amount of stupidity on TV, but he didn't actually compare the president to Hitler any more than he compared John Behner to Netanyahu. He only used Hitler and Netanyahu as extreme examples of people at extreme opposite ends of a political line, and compared that division to the president and Behner playing golf. He was stupid and obviously has an enormously inflated impression of himself as a thoughtful and knowledgeable person, but he didn't compare either US politician to anyone else. But the reporting of this issue was intended to get people to think he meant to compare Obama to Hitler, and I didn't see that in the discussion on TV.

subego · Oct 8, 2011, 07:47 PM

I'm not buying it.

If they were meant to be separate, he would have taken one of the half-dozen openings the F&F crew gave him to clarify the statements as separate. He used every attempt to dig himself deeper.

Is there something specific which makes you think they were intended to be separate? I'm literally not seeing even the slightest indication of this, and have availed myself of all the context you say others are ignoring.

CRASH HARDDRIVE · Oct 8, 2011, 09:21 PM

I can't believe you guys are dissecting something HWJ said to this level. He's one fiddle short of a hoe-down. Or something like that. Trying to think of a nice down-homey way of saying he's crazier than a toothless billygoat.

subego · Oct 8, 2011, 09:54 PM

Yer darn tootin'!

subego · Oct 8, 2011, 10:02 PM

I guess my overall point though is there are so many actual examples of the media taking something out of context, I'd rather they got pasted for those.

This wasn't taken out of context IMO. I mean, Christ... even the hired guns at FOX went saucer-eyed. That's the context.

subego · Oct 9, 2011, 06:43 AM

Originally Posted by screener

Kinda like you read into what someone says, posts, what you want to.

That's ****ing rich.

ghporter · Oct 9, 2011, 08:18 AM

Originally Posted by subego

I guess my overall point though is there are so many actual examples of the media taking something out of context, I'd rather they got pasted for those.

This wasn't taken out of context IMO. I mean, Christ... even the hired guns at FOX went saucer-eyed. That's the context.

That's what happens when you give someone who has opinions that are that extreme a chance to voice them; and while they pushed for him to clarify what he said, the Fox folks fed him all that rope to start with... They underestimated how extreme Hank really is, which to me is the really interesting part of the whole thing. They invited someone who has proudly proclaimed his self destructive habits as a "family tradition," a person already known to be of extremely unconventional extremist opinions, and were surprised when he turned out to actually BE like himself.

And at that, with opportunity after opportunity to distance himself from his apparent connection of Obama to Hitler, he never seemed to "get" that this was what they were asking about. To me, he kept speaking as if he were not only on a different page, but in a different book.

ebuddy · Oct 9, 2011, 09:00 AM

Originally Posted by subego

That's ****ing rich.

Fear not my friend, he'll chase you around with prior threads for about 4 posts until something shiny distracts him.

subego · Oct 9, 2011, 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by ghporter

That's what happens when you give someone who has opinions that are that extreme a chance to voice them; and while they pushed for him to clarify what he said, the Fox folks fed him all that rope to start with... They underestimated how extreme Hank really is, which to me is the really interesting part of the whole thing. They invited someone who has proudly proclaimed his self destructive habits as a "family tradition," a person already known to be of extremely unconventional extremist opinions, and were surprised when he turned out to actually BE like himself.

And at that, with opportunity after opportunity to distance himself from his apparent connection of Obama to Hitler, he never seemed to "get" that this was what they were asking about. To me, he kept speaking as if he were not only on a different page, but in a different book.

I'm still having trouble buying it. It isn't merely a question of equating Obama with Hitler, it's saying that these people, who absolutely, positively should be playing golf together, in his mind are so far apart the only suitable analogy for their distance is the Prime Minister of Israel and Hitler.

If his analogy was actually true, he would be hiding under a rock. Instead, it's not true and he gets a stiffy pretending it is.

Ugh.

Wiskedjak · Oct 9, 2011, 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by ghporter

... if the public and the media would actually pay attention to the actual quote in context, they probably wouldn't have had to do anything like this.

I'm not so certain. Even the Fox News hosts who were in the conversation thought he was comparing Obama to Hitler ... and looked very uncomfortable with it, trying to turn their political conversation to football.
Hank Williams Jr. Compares Obama to Hitler.- Fox & Friends - 10/3/11 - YouTube

ghporter · Oct 9, 2011, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by subego

I'm still having trouble buying it. It isn't merely a question of equating Obama with Hitler, it's saying that these people, who absolutely, positively should be playing golf together, in his mind are so far apart the only suitable analogy for their distance is the Prime Minister of Israel and Hitler.

If his analogy was actually true, he would be hiding under a rock. Instead, it's not true and he gets a stiffy pretending it is.

Ugh.

I completely agree that Williams' political point was that he felt the president and Speaker of the House should have been throwing bombs at each other rather than playing golf with each other. Which points out his apparent incredibly naive belief that the two politicians are actually enemies, rather than two people with similar jobs who have different (though in a global context not so very different) points of view. Political observers in Europe often comment on how big a deal we make of our two parties' differences, when as far as they see it, the two big US parties are just different faces of the same perspective.

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak

I'm not so certain. Even the Fox News hosts who were in the conversation thought he was comparing Obama to Hitler ... and looked very uncomfortable with it, trying to turn their political conversation to football.
Hank Williams Jr. Compares Obama to Hitler.- Fox & Friends - 10/3/11 - YouTube

Like I said, they gave a person known to have very extreme views an opening and he went with it. Logic had nothing to do with Williams' rantings, and the Fox & Friends hosts really didn't have much of a chance to redirect him once he got started. Not because they didn't try (they tried HARD), but because he was on a roll and had no desire to change his direction.

After yet another view of the segment, I'm no longer as certain that Williams did NOT really mean to compare anyone specifically to Hitler. It is a possibility that somehow he did feel that a progressive, liberal populist who is the embodiment of inclusion for our era (so far) was somehow similar to a paranoid, deeply bigoted, ultra nationalist despot who ordered the murders of millions and started a war that engulfed Europe simply to fuel his megalomania... I cannot see any sort of connection here, but the more I think about it, the less certain I am that Hank Williams Jr. has political ideas that have any relationship to the world I am familiar with...

screener · Oct 9, 2011, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by subego

That's ****ing rich.

But true.

screener · Oct 9, 2011, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by ebuddy

Fear not my friend, he'll chase you around with prior threads for about 4 posts until something shiny distracts him.

Nonetheless

screener · Oct 9, 2011, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by ghporter

but the more I think about it, the less certain I am that Hank Williams Jr. has political ideas that have any relationship to the world I am familiar with...

Nonetheless that world exists.

ghporter · Oct 9, 2011, 05:43 PM

His world or mine?

screener · Oct 9, 2011, 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by ghporter

His world or mine?

You appear to live in the same world I do and I understand giving him the benefit of stupidity, but you can't let stupidity, ignorance, hatred go in this political climate.

Mockery rules as civilized discourse doesn't work some of the time because of bias leading to misinterpretation of what you say, or intentional dismissal.

I'm middle of the road, leaning left, politically and can't stand the total lock step that some, maybe most have on either side.

Stating as fact while withholding pertinent information is dishonest as some will believe without checking.
It's called preaching to the choir.

I can't let that go.

ghporter · Oct 9, 2011, 08:55 PM

One need not give any credence to, or even attention to, a "celebrity" for his/her ideas, politics, religion, etc. Giving Williams the soap box upon which to spout his "ideas" was a bad idea, but following up by making a big deal about part of what he said is bad to a new level of badness.

"How to demonstrate a person's stupid statement is stupid: 1) publish the whole thing: lead in, content, follow up, all of it. 2) say you think his statement was out of touch and looked really stupid. 3) end. But instead, every "news" organization there is seems to have latched onto spreading part of the segment and leaving it incomplete leading their readers/viewers to conclude there was merit to listening to Williams' statements in the first place.

subego · 10:20 PM

Originally Posted by ghporter

Which points out his apparent incredibly naive belief that the two politicians are actually enemies

To be fair, that's been the "narrative" for, like, the past decade.

To explain the problem with this, I'll put it into terms Hank can understand.

Politics is like NASCAR. It may seem like a swell idea to take a giant dump on the track and have all the people behind you drive through shit. This works right up until you realize one lap later you're all using the same track.

In the parlance, this is known as "what goes around, comes around".

subego · Oct 9, 2011, 11:55 PM

Originally Posted by screener

But true.

I never claimed it wasn't. Merely a musing upon the glass-like nature of the structure from whence your stones emanate.

ghporter · Oct 10, 2011, 07:22 AM

Originally Posted by subego

In the parlance, this is known as "what goes around, comes around".

Very well put. Too bad he still wouldn't get it...