[freudling]

What an idea. Pierre Trudeau and the Department of Foreign Affairs back in the 1970s. This idea of multiculturalism. They wanted to promote all cultures living under one roof. Come to Canada, bring your culture, we will respect it. You also get to live in a free country. For the short-term anyway, it is not working. Asians have overran Vancouver and Surrey is predominately East Indian. Whites are slipping below 40% as a minority in Vancouver. Crimes has risen exponentially over the past 10 years, most of it in the Indian ran Surrey area. Nobody talks to each other, there is no common thread amongst the people. It is very cold and empty. White people are moving out of the city to smaller communities because they can't fit in, and some Asians are actually leaving to other areas of Canada because there are too many Asians here.

I don't have a problem with immigration, but the current policy has to change. Multiculturalism is supposed to be a diverse array of cultures, not the dominance of two: namely, Asians and East Indians. The picture below is at a subway station in downtown Vancouver. It is representative of the situation in the city.

Moreover, the fact that the Canadian Government respects all cultures causes immigrants (not all, but many) to exist in isolated, social vacccuums. This can't be good for a country when everyone is insulated from one another. What this gives rise to is indifference and social strife. I saw a protest downtown where there was a call to stop the deportation of 40,000 from Canada this year. Well, why don't we just let everyone in and give our country away to foreigners.

The government needs to get tough on immigration, promote more diversity, and switch from multiculturism to one of integration: the melting pot.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by freudling 

What an idea. Pierre Trudeau and the Department of Foreign Affairs back in the 1970s.

Yes, please continue kicking the dead guy. In case you haven't noticed, the current immigration policies are widely supported among Canada's significant political parties. If you have a beef, place it on today's politicians.

Originally Posted by freudling 

This idea of multiculturalism. They wanted to promote all cultures living under one roof. Come to Canada, bring your culture, we will respect it. You also get to live in a free country.

You have correctly identified the intent.

Originally Posted by freudling 

Asians have overran Vancouver and Surrey is predominately East Indian. Whites are slipping below 40% as a minority in Vancouver.

So what? This, in and of itself, is not an issue.

Originally Posted by freudling 

Crimes has risen exponentially over the past 10 years, most of it in the Indian ran Surrey area.

Got a reference for that? Nationally, crime stats have continued to drop since the 70s.

Originally Posted by freudling 

Nobody talks to each other, there is no common thread amongst the people. It is very cold and empty.

Sounds like a typical city to me.

Originally Posted by freudling 

White people are moving out of the city to smaller communities because they can't fit in, and some Asians are actually leaving to other areas of Canada because there are too many Asians here.

Good riddance.

Originally Posted by freudling 

I don't have a problem with immigration, but the current policy has to change.

What specifically do you think needs changing in our immigration policies?

Originally Posted by freudling 

Multiculturalism is supposed to be a diverse array of cultures, not the dominance of two: namely, Asians and East Indians. The picture below is at a subway station in downtown Vancouver. It is representative of the situation in the city.

I can't see your picture. Regardless, "ethnic ghettos" are everywhere.

Originally Posted by freudling 

Moreover, the fact that the Canadian Government respects all cultures causes immigrants (not all, but many) to exist in isolated, social vacccuums. This can't be good for a country when everyone is insulated from one another.

This is pure nonsense. "Ethnic ghettos" existed long before the 70s, and will always exist.

Originally Posted by freudling 

I saw a protest downtown where there was a call to stop the deportation of 40,000 from Canada this year. Well, why don't we just let everyone in and give our country away to foreigners.

How many people were at this protest? I doubt it was significant.

Originally Posted by freudling 

The government needs to get tough on immigration, promote more diversity, and switch from multiculturism to one of integration: the melting pot.

How does the gov't "promote diversity" and "the melting pot" at the same time?

The only serious problem with Canada's immigration policies are the number of doctors who are driving cabs.

[larrinski]

Originally Posted by freudling 

What an idea. Pierre Trudeau and the Department of Foreign Affairs back in the 1970s. This idea of multiculturalism. They wanted to promote all cultures living under one roof. Come to Canada, bring your culture, we will respect it. You also get to live in a free country. For the short-term anyway, it is not working. Asians have overran Vancouver and Surrey is predominately East Indian. Whites are slipping below 40% as a minority in Vancouver. Crimes has risen exponentially over the past 10 years, most of it in the Indian ran Surrey area. Nobody talks to each other, there is no common thread amongst the people. It is very cold and empty. White people are moving out of the city to smaller communities because they can't fit in, and some Asians are actually leaving to other areas of Canada because there are too many Asians here.

I don't have a problem with immigration, but the current policy has to change. Multiculturalism is supposed to be a diverse array of cultures, not the dominance of two: namely, Asians and East Indians. The picture below is at a subway station in downtown Vancouver. It is representative of the situation in the city.

Moreover, the fact that the Canadian Government respects all cultures causes immigrants (not all, but many) to exist in isolated, social vacccuums. This can't be good for a country when everyone is insulated from one another. What this gives rise to is indifference and social strife. I saw a protest downtown where there was a call to stop the deportation of 40,000 from Canada this year. Well, why don't we just let everyone in and give our country away to foreigners.

The government needs to get tough on immigration, promote more diversity, and switch from multiculturism to one of integration: the melting pot.

Unless you are Native, you and "your people" are immigrants too, and more than likely came here in the last 100-150 years...Many "asian" communities in Canada are older than that. Maybe you should look at the entire country and its makeup instead of selected parts of a "single" city on the west coast. Vancouver Island has many cultures on it and is surviving nicely thanks. Look outside your little box...

[Shaddim]

Uh oh, god help you, but you've done it now. Attacking Canada on this forum will get you skinned alive, whether you have a valid point or not.

Just stick to bashing the US, like most of the other natives.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Uh oh, god help you, but you've done it now. Attacking Canada on this forum will get you skinned alive, whether you have a valid point or not.

Just stick to bashing the US, like most of the other natives.

I didn't see any Canada-bashing in the OP.

[freudling]

If you read my post properly, you would have understood that I am not against immigration, and the problem with the policy is that allowing such a large proportion of immigrants from China and India does not support the mandate of multiculturalism. I am not confined to "my little box", my comments are applicable to Canada as a whole, not just Vancouver. To be sure, immigrants from China and India are the leading source of immigrants to Canada. Moreover, as for visible minorities, the Chinese are the largest by far, in Canada.

Census: Ethnocultural portrait: Canada

And:

"Chinese comprised the largest proportion of the visible minority population in British Columbia (44%), Alberta (30%) and Saskatchewan (29%). Ontario had the highest number of Chinese (481,500), but they comprised the second highest proportion (22%) of the visible minorities in that province, behind South Asians (26%)"

And now, to the policy, which is at the heart of this increased proportion of immigrants from Asia:

"The shift during the past 40 years has been due to a number of factors, including changes in Canada’s immigration policies..."

The policy should be changed to even out the distribution of immigrants coming from across the planet.

As for diversity with a melting pot, that means that visible minorities are mixed with white people, but they share some common ground. Each are, therefore, not perched in an isolated bubble.

Immigrants by place of birth, 2001-2006: Place of birth for the immigrant population by period of immigration, 2006 counts and percentage distribution, for Canada, provinces and territories – 20% sample data

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

I didn't see any Canada-bashing in the OP.

Oh sh*t!! Now they're after meeeeeee! Help! HALP!

[nonhuman]

I don't really understand what people think is so wrong with the ethnic and cultural makeup of a place changing. Who really cares if a place that was once mostly white is now mostly asian?

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by freudling 

If you read my post properly, you would have understood that I am not against immigration, and the problem with the policy is that allowing such a large proportion of immigrants from China and India does not support the mandate of multiculturalism.

If you post properly, you will be better understood. The word "proportion" is not in your original post.

The policy should be changed to even out the distribution of immigrants coming from across the planet.

Why? Do we need more blacks or Arabs?

Seriously, why?

We get high numbers of immigrants from India and China because they have huge populations of highly educated people who want to emigrate here.

As for diversity with a melting pot, that means that visible minorities are mixed with white people, but they share some common ground. Each are, therefore, not perched in an isolated bubble.

And how does the gov't accomplish such a "laudable" goal?

Besides, you seem to encountering some issues with diction: melting-pot means "monolithic culture," not "minorities living among whites."

Frankly, it's none of the state's business to tell people where to live. There are many, many minority communities in Canada: Amish regions, native reserves, all-French communities, plus little Italy and little China and little Israel and so on in major cities. It's a total waste of state resources to bother with "spreading people out." You got some high crime ghettos? No kidding! Maybe we can ship'em off to "Saskaberia" among all the whites there.

[freudling]

lpkmckenna:

Blah blah.

Anyone else want to chime in, beside fanatical, dogmatic lpkmckenna?

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by freudling 

Immigrants by place of birth, 2001-2006: Place of birth for the immigrant population by period of immigration, 2006 counts and percentage distribution, for Canada, provinces and territories – 20% sample data

Thanks for these stats. Of course, I'm still waiting for your crime stats.

So only 14% of new immigrants are from China? Sounds proportionately low, because 20% of Earthlings live in China. We need more Chinese immigrants, in case we need to expand our railroads.

[freudling]

And 14% makes up the highest, proportionally, of all immigrants. They are also number 1 in terms of amount of immigrants to this country.

Anyway, anyone else feel the squeeze in this country?

[besson3c]

freudling: I just don't understand what the problem is that you are trying to identify. Things are changing, but what exactly is the problem with that?

[Jim Paradise]

And the long-standing tradition of harping on immigrants continues. Looking forward to yet another 150 years of it.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by freudling 

Crimes has risen exponentially over the past 10 years, most of it in the Indian ran Surrey area.

Please support your exponential growth claim with facts.

Originally Posted by freudling 

Multiculturalism is supposed to be a diverse array of cultures, not the dominance of two: namely, Asians and East Indians.

Actually, if Canada really became multicultural in proportion to the whole world, it would be dominated by Asians and Indians.

[chris v]

Asians have overran Vancouver and Surrey is predominately East Indian. Whites are slipping below 40% as a minority in Vancouver.

The horror!

[besson3c]

freudling: do you feel threatened by people that are different than you?

[Eug]

I have some friends in Surrey. They are white. They love it there.

I guess it depends on where in Surrey you live.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

I remember having this conversation with freudling before I believe. He seems to be a little scared of all the non-white people around nowadays....

Originally Posted by freudling 

The policy should be changed to even out the distribution of immigrants coming from across the planet.

China and India both have slightly less than 1/6th of the world's population. I guess that should mean that we'd get a large number of immigrants from those countries, hmmmm?

As for diversity with a melting pot, that means that visible minorities are mixed with white people, but they share some common ground. Each are, therefore, not perched in an isolated bubble.

Canada hasn't supported "melting pot" diversity since those Trudeau days you talked about. Furthermore, as lpk noted, your idea that immigrants should somehow be "assigned" where they can live with respect to "white people" is stupid and ridiculous and racist.

The bottom line for you seems to be that you don't like so many Chinese and Indian people living where you live. As far as I'm concerned that makes you a sad, racist individual.

My cure: go eat some goat vindaloo. Happiness and peace can be deliciously yours.

greg

[Faust]

freudling,

Are you a child of immigrants?

Were your parents immigrants?

Grandparents?

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by freudling 

Anyway, anyone else feel the squeeze in this country?

Not feeling any squeeze here

[Eug]

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton 

My cure: go eat some goat vindaloo. Happiness and peace can be deliciously yours.

That stuff tastes so good, but gives me wicked heartburn. Damn those Indians!!!

[ShortcutToMoncton]

So good! I'm not usually a fan of shrimp as a "meal", but shrimp vindaloo with a nice heaping of hot naan bread is like heaven. On my plate. In my belly.

So good!

greg

[vmarks]

melting pot has never meant that populations would be ethnically equally distributed with regard to residence. It instead means that emphasis is placed on immigrants assimilating and adopting their new country as home, taking on its cultural cues and traditions with pride. Multiculturalism instead places emphasis on not assimilating and valuing the traditions of a country of origin as more worthy. The question is, there's a wide range between those two. Where Do you think the balance should be?

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by vmarks 

melting pot has never meant that populations would be ethnically equally distributed with regard to residence. It instead means that emphasis is placed on immigrants assimilating and adopting their new country as home, taking on its cultural cues and traditions with pride. Multiculturalism instead places emphasis on not assimilating and valuing the traditions of a country of origin as more worthy. The question is, there's a wide range between those two. Where Do you think the balance should be?

I always thought "melting pot" meant that immigrating cultural norms and traditions would be added to those of the new country, with the residents of that country, including new immigrants, adopting the cultural norms and traditions of all cultures in that society. A nice, utopian, idea, but one which I never felt possible with the current human societal evolution of "my culture is right and your's is wrong".

[The Godfather]

I say down with chain immigration (yes, family re-unification act, I am looking at you) and open the doors wide to productive people, educated people and professionals from all over the world.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

I'm down with that. It's one aspect of the Canadian immigration system that seems quite dubious.

greg

[Eug]

I disagree. I support the reunification of families. It's the decent thing to do.

What I don't like is the buying of Canadian citizenships. If a potential immigrant has a decent amount of cash to invest then they can get fast tracked in the immigration process. I know for a fact that many overseas see this as merely a way of buying citizenship in Canada. I know because my friend's dad used to be in the facilitation-of-buying-Canadian-citizenship business.

I like the concept of promoting investments in Canada, but for quite some time a lot of so called business immigrants didn't give two sh!ts about their investments in Canada. The half-million or whatever they spent was simply viewed as a cost of the immigration process. Furthermore, Citizenship and Immigration Canada often didn't do much about it. They're too limited on manpower to check up on everyone.

By the way, that facilitator business was interesting. Some rich overseas dude would fly in one day, and within two days would have bought a house and car in Canada, and would have all the utilities and insurance organized. And then would fly back out again. Then their kid would live in that great big house and go to university while the "investor" would be doing all his real business overseas.

[Chongo]

Originally Posted by larrinski 

Unless you are Native, you and "your people" are immigrants too, and more than likely came here in the last 100-150 years...Many "asian" communities in Canada are older than that. Maybe you should look at the entire country and its makeup instead of selected parts of a "single" city on the west coast. Vancouver Island has many cultures on it and is surviving nicely thanks. Look outside your little box...

Even those who are "native" came to the Americas from Eurasia. The big debate is how and from where the migration spread.
Models of migration to the New World - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[The Godfather]

Originally Posted by Eug 

I disagree. I support the reunification of families. It's the decent thing to do.

What I don't like is the buying of Canadian citizenships. If a potential immigrant has a decent amount of cash to invest then they can get fast tracked in the immigration process. I know for a fact that many overseas see this as merely a way of buying citizenship in Canada. I know because my friend's dad used to be in the facilitation-of-buying-Canadian-citizenship business.

I like the concept of promoting investments in Canada, but for quite some time a lot of so called business immigrants didn't give two sh!ts about their investments in Canada. The half-million or whatever they spent was simply viewed as a cost of the immigration process. Furthermore, Citizenship and Immigration Canada often didn't do much about it. They're too limited on manpower to check up on everyone.

By the way, that facilitator business was interesting. Some rich overseas dude would fly in one day, and within two days would have bought a house and car in Canada, and would have all the utilities and insurance organized. And then would fly back out again. Then their kid would live in that great big house and go to university while the "investor" would be doing all his real business overseas.

That's a very stupid way to use CAN $500k. But is it really a factor that affects the concerns of the Original Post? How many million immigrants use this stupid way of getting a passport?

[Shaddim]

That's not new anywhere, any country will sell citizenship for enough $$$.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by The Godfather 

That's a very stupid way to use CAN $500k. But is it really a factor that affects the concerns of the Original Post? How many million immigrants use this stupid way of getting a passport?

Millions? Not that many, but yeah, there are a lot of immigrants coming in this way... and then they bring their extended families.

It's a concern because you had a population coming in with tons of money and who helped to drive up home prices in certain neighbourhoods like in Shaunessey in Vancouver, etc. but don't really have any desire to actually live here.

No, their kids aren't the ones that join gangs, but nonetheless their perceived lack of interest in Canada does p!ss some people off. It got so bad that some families would hire imposters to live in their homes, so people wouldn't report them as being gone all the time.

I still agree with the concept. I just wish they would actually enforce the rules. People who flagrantly violate the rules should be quickly deported. That applies to MIA investors, and that applies to gang members.

Now, if someone from India comes to Canada with the intent of living here and making a peaceful life for himself, I don't care if he likes to frequent Indian restaurants and Indian grocery stores. I think that just adds to the multiculturalism in Canada.

P.S. I just found a great little Afghan restaurant near my place. Afghan Mantoo steamed dumplings are delicious. Yum!

[The Godfather]

You are making good points toward two things:
* high taxes to investments of non-nationals
* the revocation of chain immigration laws

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Originally Posted by Eug 

I disagree. I support the reunification of families. It's the decent thing to do.

I don't know how "decent" is defined, but IMO immigration shouldn't be based on models of "decency" unless refugee status is at play. Extended family coming in often (at least where I live) are the people who are traditionally "taken care of" in, for example, Asian societies; older family members such as fathers, mothers, uncles, etc. While it may seem reasonable to reunify such families, the fact remains that Canada as a country pretty much sees no "benefit" from this immigration – economic, social, or otherwise. To add to that, these older persons are most likely to make heavy use of the already-overburden healthcare system.

I have some family members as well as a couple friends who work in Brampton hospitals. (Brampton has a large ethnic, especially Indian, population.) They've mentioned several times about the extraordinary number of older immigrants using the healthcare system there. Should Canada be following the "decent" practice of allowing such family members to immigrate to Canada – taking a hit on their given lack of contribution to Canada's overall prosperity – when the general populace is then burdened with the inevitable cost of paying for their failing health?

Originally Posted by Chongo 

Even those who are "native" came to the Americas from Eurasia. The big debate is how and from where the migration spread.

Was this just general information? I don't get your point.

greg

[Chongo]

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton 

Originally Posted by larrinski
Unless you are Native, you and "your people" are immigrants too, and more than likely came here in the last 100-150 years...Many "asian" communities in Canada are older than that. Maybe you should look at the entire country and its makeup instead of selected parts of a "single" city on the west coast. Vancouver Island has many cultures on it and is surviving nicely thanks. Look outside your little box...

Originally Posted by Chongo
Even those who are "native" came to the Americas from Eurasia. The big debate is how and from where the migration spread.
Models of migration to the New World - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Was this just general information? I don't get your point.

greg

Everyone is an immigrant to the Americas, some have just been here longer. There was an episode of Nova that dealt with this very subject.

[chris v]

Originally Posted by Chongo 

Everyone is an immigrant to the Americas, some have just been here longer. There was an episode of Nova that dealt with this very subject.

Some were here 10,000 - 30,000 years longer. Whitey out of North America!

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by The Godfather 

* high taxes to investments of non-nationals

Yes, discourage the influx of new money into the country...

[Helmling]

Originally Posted by chris v 

The horror!

Lol!

That's perfect. It's really all the anti-immigration crowd (in Canada or America) have as the root of their arguments--xenophobia.

[Helmling]

Originally Posted by Chongo 

Everyone is an immigrant to the Americas, some have just been here longer. There was an episode of Nova that dealt with this very subject.

Then there are no "natives" anywhere but Kenya?

[Eug]

I'm from elsewhere in the G. Confederacy originally, and when we arrived here, we settled near Mount Hood briefly. I still remember that modified DC8 in which we flew. I often go back to Mount Hood for snowboard trips and to visit the graves of my long dead relatives.

[The Godfather]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

Yes, discourage the influx of new money into the country...

For the sake of affordable housing, of course.

[freudling]

An example of the social strife the mosaic is causing:

In relation to Bruce Allan, who is on the Vancouver 2010 Olympic Committee:

Outcry grows over promoter's comments

[chris v]

Oh, a chain mail, with RANDOM CAPS littered throughout. Very PERSUASIVE.

[freudling]

In response to the call to have Canada's National Anthem sung in Hindi at the 2010 Olympics, here is a response from a political thread from a Polish immigrant:

Honestly... everyone keeps talking about how much Bruce Allenn offended the poor immigrants... oh.. no.. not the immigrants! I am an immigrant, and I think most Canadians should be ashamed. You don't have a country, its owned by 10's of other countries including the US of A.
Everyone seemed to have forgot that this is still a "free" country and that he has rights as well as the immigrants..... ergh.. i mean neutralized Canadians He chose to express himself on the airwaves, just like you have the chance to call up the radio station and give your point of view. Enough with my rights, his rights, their rights,... start to think human rights.

BRUCE ALLEN IS NOT RACIST, (at least not from what he said in this article)

I also wanted to say that I am from Poland. I have my Polish anthem, and I'd be damned if it was sung in english or hindu, chinese or whatever ... Its THE POLISH ANTHEM... i 'd like it to stay that way... and you "pure" Canadians need to understand that you do have a country, its called CANADA, this is not the HOLIDAY INN... and its definetly not BURGER KING,... and you don't get your way right away, at least you shouldn't. I came to this country and I love it here. I have a job, i have a home, I have healthcare, and I'm safe. That’s all any immigrant ought to expect. I wanted to say i have freedom of expression, but as a white guy, no I don't. I have political correctness that is shoved in my face. I'm am sick and tired of it. No one cares about your damn turbin, or your star of david, or the cross, or the moon or the stars or whatever other symbol you might feel is you. The fact is this is Canada, and canada has a very simple symbol. The maple leaf. Its red not just because of the changing seasons, but red because of the blood that has been spilled by previous generations by defending CANADA. These people just wanted to be able to raise their families in peace, and to not have to sing the national anthem in German. I believe you should respect them. Just like they respected you offering you a CANADIAN citizenship.

The Canadian anthem should be sung in english, or french. The only 2 official languages of this country. The rest really ought to shut up, and pack up, and leave. You don't go to egypt, or iran, or pakistan, or china, or poland, or germany or russia and demand your version of the national anthem. You will get your ass kicked, jailed, or arrested and or probably shot or hung or stoned.

I am polish, i am living in Canada, and I have my Polish Anthem, and my Candian anthem.

What will you have 10 years from now? Cause the way things are going and at the rate canadians give up their "freedom of expression" you will have a multicultural carousel of anthems. In the end... if I am asked to stand on guard for any anthem but the true Canadian one.. I will, 100% quit the military.

[nonhuman]

I'm still waiting for an explanation of why it's bad to have different cultures around...

[lpkmckenna]

An example of the social strife the mosaic is causing:

In relation to Bruce Allan, who is on the Vancouver 2010 Olympic Committee:
Mr. Allen raised the ire of B.C.'s Indo-Canadian community when he referred to religious headgear as "handkerchiefs" and said those who don't respect the customs and laws of Canada should go home.

It appears that Mr Allen needs a lesson in decorum. This is an example of someone behaving like an ass. It has nothing to do with Canada's mosaic.

[gradient]

I live in Vancouver.

I LOVE that we have a community that encourages people to maintain their cultures once they have immigrated here.

The intolerance in the OP is really bordering on outright bigotry - the kind of BS that Canada isn't supposed to stand for. If you want a melting pot mentality, go live in the US or wait a few years - we'll be slowly adopting US policies until the point that we're exactly the same anyway.

[The Godfather]

Is it a fact that too many Canadians can't speak English? And if so, is it a problem?

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by The Godfather 

Is it a fact that too many Canadians can't speak English? And if so, is it a problem?

No. Very often, first-generation speakers have trouble learning the language, and since they often fill jobs at McDonalds or whatever, everyone gets exposed to them. But a service industry job is probably the best way to learn any language. Second-generation speakers are naturally fluent, just like everyone else in Canada.

There are small communities of all-French speakers in Quebec and NB, though.

[Chongo]

Originally Posted by Helmling 

Then there are no "natives" anywhere but Kenya?

If Lucy is the first Human or Mesopotamia, or Mt Ararat depending on what theory you believe.