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iOliverC · Oct 4, 2004, 12:44 PM

Hey guys,

I develop Tag (http://www.talacia.com)

and I have hit a rather annoying stumbling block in regards to my next update, 1.5.

One of the main features amongst others, is multiple-documents in one window. I've seen two approaches to this. Tabs, or list.

I approached development of 1.5 with a strong mind to choose tabs, but now a recent mail from a user has changed my mind in a way. The tabs are even ready to use, but certain things just seem to be holding me back from using them in the main project. Here is a screenshot of them:

Tabs

As you can see, they look nice and all, but my main gripe is that you just can't have full sites open in tabs (like say 20 documents or so).

Here is the list idea, this is how it looks in Xcode:

List

This is where the extra cool-ness comes to play. In my version of this list, you'd have at the top a category called 'Opened Documents', and inside that would be a list of all the open documents you have. You could have other categories like 'Snippets', which would list all the available snippets. So you could insert them easily. I was also thinking about other things like a drop zone, like you could drop files in your going to use most in a project in an area, and they would stay there. So for example, you could drop an image there, and when you want to use it, drag it into the text view and it'll be inserted.

Basically, I am asking for your opinion on which method you prefer, tabs are done and would obviously mean Tag 1.5 comes out earlier, but I'd rather a product everyone use than only I use.

Thanks,
Oliver

Horsepoo!!! · Oct 4, 2004, 01:19 PM

I prefer 'list' for the points you mention above. I'll spare everyone my tab hate-speech.

Each window should represent a site. Each webpage should be inside the list. This will allow the user to view the hierarchy of the site and will allow easy switching.

The snippets and images in the list idea is neat too...kinda like a dock I suppose.

Expose can take care of the rest...if someone actually works on more than one web site at a time.

drive-thru · Oct 4, 2004, 02:06 PM

Tabs are good for Safari, where you are usually just viewing pages but want to go back to the original, like opening up different froum threads.

I think that for the kind of app you are developing the list view is best. The simple reason for this is you can display things hierarchically (like your 'Open Documents' idea) and you can have other categories from which you can drag things into the current document ('Snipets' & 'DropZone'). If this was in a drawer or built into one side of the main window it would allow to navigate between various projects & parts of projects, rather than tabs which are much more limited.
This feature would be really useful, currently I use SubEthaEdit which lacks support for multiple documents in a single window.

As for the development taking longer, it will produce a much better product in the end. Go for it.

Good luck with the development, let us know how it goes.

mdc · Oct 4, 2004, 02:08 PM

i think the list idea sounds better.

threestain · Oct 4, 2004, 02:47 PM

ditto the list idea is much better for development I think

sandsl · Oct 4, 2004, 03:29 PM

List, but keep tabs as option since you've already got them. Not everyone wants to work in a site/hierarchical metaphor...depends what your doing I guess.

iOliverC · Oct 4, 2004, 03:33 PM

Originally posted by sandsl:
List, but keep tabs as option since you've already got them. Not everyone wants to work in a site/hierarchical metaphor...depends what your doing I guess.

That'd be a problem, tabs wouldn't work in the same way as the list (not just in functionality, but code too). Right now I have to do a lot of custom hacking for document stuff, which I plan to fix for the list. I'll see, but it seems too big of a gap to be a preference imo.

Thanks,
Oliver

headbirth · Oct 4, 2004, 04:48 PM

The list is nice, maybe you can incorporate some sort of code navigation into it as well.

iOliverC · Oct 4, 2004, 05:08 PM

Originally posted by headbirth:
The list is nice, maybe you can incorporate some sort of code navigation into it as well.

This is planned, it'd be in a way like CSSEdit does it. Like when you expanded an open document in the list, you could see all the tags in your document. For example all the <p>'s or <div>'s.

Thanks,
Oliver

mdc · Oct 4, 2004, 05:14 PM

that sounds brilliant!

headbirth · Oct 4, 2004, 08:15 PM

How about something more like this ... maybe in a panel below the list panel.

http://home.earthlink.net/~headbirth...d/CodeIdea.jpg

Something that will allow only certain sections of code to be visable and remove the other distracting code from view and editing. Highlight some code > drag it to a special pane > name it > and when selected it shows only that portion of code in the document. Quick and easy no clutter navigation.

OptimusG4 · Oct 4, 2004, 11:30 PM

I love the list view concept. Go for it

ameat · Oct 5, 2004, 09:19 AM

i would really love a file/ftp browser integrated into the sidebar. not for managing a project but for navigating the file system. something like what homesite and jedit offer...

120db · Oct 5, 2004, 11:57 AM

i think an approach similar to what textmate is going to be like would be best - a file system nav for the project on the side, AND tabs for each open window. one of the problems i have with skedit is that the file system list is kind of both and it doesn't work well for me (i know there's an open files menu, but they're hidden away in there until you click on it which doesn't work from the keyboard). and the problem with bbedit 8 is the drawer is only for open files, so to navigate through a site within the bbedit window you have to open all the files so they show up in the list which really bogs it down...and i don't want to use a disk browser since it's a separate window, and file groups aren't dynamically updated. so, if you had a way to access any file in the site combined with a visual representation of the files that are currently open, i think that would be the most productive.

headbirth · Oct 5, 2004, 05:58 PM

A little off topic, but I was wondering. As someone considering purchasing Tag, can I expect Tag to continue to be developed and supported or is there a potential for you to lose interest and drop it a year from now :-)

fetopher · Oct 5, 2004, 08:53 PM

Originally posted by headbirth:
How about something more like this ... maybe in a panel below the list panel.

http://home.earthlink.net/~headbirth...d/CodeIdea.jpg

Something that will allow only certain sections of code to be visable and remove the other distracting code from view and editing. Highlight some code > drag it to a special pane > name it > and when selected it shows only that portion of code in the document. Quick and easy no clutter navigation.

Another vote for list. And, I really like headbirth's idea linked above. Right now, I use Subethaedit, but I tried Tag a while back. If you can incorporate something like this list/visible code idea into Tag, I'll be buying.

I also want to encourage you as a developer. I think Tag is already a great app, it just doesn't quite meet my needs. Keep up the hard work and I'm sure folks will jump on board.

iOliverC · Oct 6, 2004, 02:19 AM

Originally posted by headbirth:
A little off topic, but I was wondering. As someone considering purchasing Tag, can I expect Tag to continue to be developed and supported or is there a potential for you to lose interest and drop it a year from now :-)

Tag is going to be actively developed for the years to come, I can promise that

Thanks,
Oliver

Gee4orce · Oct 6, 2004, 04:13 AM

Filenames are long in the x-direction, but short in the y-direction (the height of a character). So it makes sense to stack them vertically, in a list, so that you can fit more on screen.

You could always use the visal effect of tabs but have the tabs stacked vertically on one side of the window like a list. Who says tabs have to be put across the top ?