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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > 1/3 UK on the dole?

1/3 UK on the dole?
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Sky Captain
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Feb 13, 2007, 09:25 AM
 
Woah, I've heard my Brit friends complain,
but I didn't realize it was this high.
Any Britons here elaborate further on this?
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Mark Larr
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Feb 13, 2007, 10:16 AM
 
It's called a big brother welfare state.

Reward failure and punish success.

Hey, we'll send y'all some freeloaders for some of your successful, productive citizens.
Shut up and eat your paisley.
     
Dakar²
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Feb 13, 2007, 10:48 AM
 
     
Sky Captain  (op)
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Feb 13, 2007, 10:50 AM
 
All men are created equal, but what they do after that point puts them on a sliding scale.
     
Dakar²
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Feb 13, 2007, 10:51 AM
 
The second one would be healthier. The first... creepy.
     
moodymonster
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Feb 13, 2007, 01:14 PM
 
it's not necessarily on the dole - ie unemployed.

For lots of people they are better off being in a low income job and receiving state benefits. If they got a job where they received a bit more money - they'd actually be worse off because they'd no longer be eligible for benefit.

I think the idea of it is to maintain a certain level of living for lower paid people, but has backfired in that they are better off being lower paid.

There was some furore a few years back over a family on a TV reality show called "Wife Swap", the family had ~6 kids and lived entirely off the state.
     
nonhuman
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Feb 13, 2007, 01:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by moodymonster View Post
it's not necessarily on the dole - ie unemployed.

For lots of people they are better off being in a low income job and receiving state benefits. If they got a job where they received a bit more money - they'd actually be worse off because they'd no longer be eligible for benefit.

I think the idea of it is to maintain a certain level of living for lower paid people, but has backfired in that they are better off being lower paid.

There was some furore a few years back over a family on a TV reality show called "Wife Swap", the family had ~6 kids and lived entirely off the state.
Exactly. The same is true of a progressive income tax system. If you're just below the level for the next bracket, a small raise could actually hurt you rather than helping you.

Yep, those 'liberal' ideas sure do increase the upwards mobility of the working poor!
     
moodymonster
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Feb 13, 2007, 01:30 PM
 
In the UK the tax system is divided into bands - you only get taxed for the amounts inside each band ie

>~£5000 - ~£7000 is @ 10%

then you move into the main tax band

~£7000 - ~£35000 is @ 22%

earnings over £35,000 @ 40%

so you don't get blanket taxed at a higher rate, but it does make it a little less exciting when you get paid more and the extra money is in a higher band. (apologies is advance if I've got the wrong end of the stick here, and this is all common knowledge).

As an aside, back in the 70s the top band was 98%.
     
Dakar²
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Feb 13, 2007, 01:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by moodymonster View Post
In the UK the tax system is divided into bands - you only get taxed for the amounts inside each band.
It's the same here.
     
moodymonster
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Feb 13, 2007, 01:34 PM
 
and you've also got National Insurance @ ~8% - that comes in ~£4300 and above.
     
Doofy
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Feb 13, 2007, 01:39 PM
 
It's a marxist's wet dream - the whole system moving towards everyone being dependent on the state in some form or another.

I forget. Do we have any marxists in the current UK government?

---
BTW, US peeps. You can earn up to something like $100,000 and still qualify for state handouts if you've got kids.
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moodymonster
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Feb 13, 2007, 01:56 PM
 
As far as I'm aware, there isn't a limit on your income with regard to child benefit payments. As soon as you get one - you're eligible, regardless of income.
     
Doofy
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Feb 13, 2007, 01:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by moodymonster View Post
As far as I'm aware, there isn't a limit on your income with regard to child benefit payments. As soon as you get one - you're eligible, regardless of income.
I'd heard of people on £60k getting it, but didn't realise that there's no real upper limit.
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moodymonster
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Feb 13, 2007, 02:49 PM
 
lots of countries have incentives for their population to have children.
     
moodymonster
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Feb 13, 2007, 02:52 PM
 
Child Benefit is a tax-free monthly payment to anyone bringing up a child or young person. It is not affected by income or savings so most people who are bringing up a child or young person qualify for it.
HM Revenue & Customs: Child Benefit Child Benefit - Key Information

     
Doofy
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Feb 13, 2007, 03:37 PM
 
Oh. No no no. I think I was on about family tax credit. I think.

Buggered if I know. Government doesn't give me owt (except a headache) so I haven't looked into all of Gordy's twists and turns.
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moodymonster
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Feb 13, 2007, 03:55 PM
 
oh, right...

I think they just complicate it all to employ people to run the system.

slightly unrelated, but I did read recently that that new licensing thingy-ma-bob for clubs, pubs etc they've introduced actually didn't raise enough revenue to cover the cost of adminstrating the licenses leaving a £97 million hole. Therefore, what's the point of having a 'tax' that doesn't even cover the cost of its own admin.
     
Doofy
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Feb 13, 2007, 04:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by moodymonster View Post
Therefore, what's the point of having a 'tax' that doesn't even cover the cost of its own admin.
Control.

"You cannot <whatever> without our permission."
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moodymonster
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Feb 13, 2007, 04:12 PM
 
I think it was more a knee jerk reaction to getting clubs etc to contribute toward the cost of policing the streets when their clientele leave. Typically, they didn't think it through.

I don't think there is some kind of over arching machiavellian/big brother thinking behind them. I do think there is a streak of authoritarianism a mile wide through our incumbent rulers, but I think this is more down to a lack of introspection on their part than a concerted effort. I think they are ideologically driven, ultimately with good intentions - and are blinded by this with regard to negative outcomes of what may come of their decisions.

Or maybe one of us is giving them too much credit
     
typoon
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Feb 16, 2007, 04:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by Mark Larr View Post
It's called a big brother welfare state.

Reward failure and punish success.

Hey, we'll send y'all some freeloaders for some of your successful, productive citizens.
Well if the Dems and President Bush have their way the US will soon be just as bad with all these Illegals getting services for nothing.
"Evil is Powerless If the Good are Unafraid." -Ronald Reagan

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Sky Captain  (op)
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Feb 16, 2007, 04:30 PM
 
They pretty much do now.
Grady Hospital is going broke.
Peachcare™ is broke.
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villalobos
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Feb 18, 2007, 12:03 AM
 
Originally Posted by typoon View Post
Well if the Dems and President Bush have their way the US will soon be just as bad with all these Illegals getting services for nothing.
Counterbalanced by those temporary legal immigrants who pay SS taxes for nothing.
     
   
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