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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > Royal Formalities: Bush vs. The Queen

Royal Formalities: Bush vs. The Queen
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Jawbone54
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May 8, 2007, 12:51 PM
 
Blundering Bush?
More Nonsense



Let me get this straight...
The Queen comes to the United States, gets offended by Bush (both the cheeky wink and the near-1776 remark), gets offended by Mickey Rooney for kissing her on the hand, and generally acts like we have to treat the United States like it's Wales for the entire time she's here.

Should we be going out of our way to kiss this woman's butt while she's in our country? I understand respect, but this is going far beyond the call of duty. The media here is acting like she's God incarnate. I wonder if the recent release of The Queen (the movie) has anything to do with this sudden American fascination with wiping her buttocks for her.

How do you British members deal with these people so often? What do they do for you besides appear in tabloids?
     
olePigeon
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May 8, 2007, 01:20 PM
 
It's called ettiquete, and Bush has none. The article also stated that the Queen later found the remarks funny and shrugged it off. I don't think it was a big deal.
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peeb
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May 8, 2007, 01:45 PM
 
She's not God incarnate, she is the Supreme Governor of the Church of England though, which puts her pretty high up on God's pecking order. If you're into that.
Apart from appearing in tabloids, she is the head of state of the United Kingdom and in the British overseas territories, the head of state of fifteen other countries (the Commonwealth Realms). She gives permission for cabinet members to leave the country, signs legislation into law, commands the armed forces, and a few other things that slip my mind...
     
Jawbone54  (op)
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May 8, 2007, 02:04 PM
 
I would never deny that etiquette is not Bush's strong point, but what the press is reporting goes beyond etiquette. One of the things that I like about America is our founding father's debated endlessly over simple things like the title of our President, and decided that they didn't want anything that sounded overly formal. John Adam's wanted "His Excellency," which was soundly rejected by everyone.

I still cannot fully realize the Queen's importance. I must also point out that it looks like a giant bird defecated on her hat.
     
peeb
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May 8, 2007, 02:08 PM
 
She's a head of state, and a monarch. You either think that kind of thing commands a certain respect, or you don't. Neither is wrong, but part of the deal of inviting the Queen to dinner is buying into that whole thing. If you don't fully realize the Queen's importance, that's fine, but don't invite her to tea.
     
moodymonster
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May 8, 2007, 02:44 PM
 
well at least he didn't do this:

http://smh.com.au/ffximage/2006/04/2..._470x385,0.jpg

again... ultimately it's about being polite.

Personally the 'highest up' person I've met is a baroness - and just got on like I would with anyone else.

The Royal family bring in a lot of money from tourists

they're alright really...
     
kmkkid
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May 8, 2007, 02:53 PM
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but any woman that is mistakingly aged at 300 would get a little offended
     
subego
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May 8, 2007, 03:19 PM
 
It's not like he walked up to her and started rubbing her shoulders.

As stiff as she is, which I think she feels is a duty, I don't buy that she wasn't amused. It was too good of a joke.
     
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May 8, 2007, 03:32 PM
 
Are the colonies misbehaving again?
     
osiris
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May 8, 2007, 04:50 PM
 
At least he didn't slap her butt.
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Dakarʒ
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May 8, 2007, 04:54 PM
 
Suddenly Naked Gun comes to mind.
     
wolfen
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May 8, 2007, 05:23 PM
 
This weekend some survey corp spent 15 minutes getting my invaluable opinions and insights about the world. I should have charged them for the privilege, but that's another matter. Anyway, they asked if I was ok with England having a Queen and a Royal Family. I said "Sure, let her carry on."

Looks like they did.
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peeb
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May 8, 2007, 05:24 PM
 
It's very gracious of you to allow this institution to continue. You made a good choice.
     
Rumor
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May 8, 2007, 06:53 PM
 
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the Royal Family more for show and tradition these days?
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peeb
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May 8, 2007, 06:57 PM
 
Depends how you look at it - the Queen chooses the Prime Minister.
     
subego
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May 8, 2007, 07:05 PM
 
Does she choose, or does the new PM ask for permission?
     
peeb
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May 8, 2007, 07:08 PM
 
Well, the PM has no constitutional role formally in th UK, the position is not elected. The Queen traditionally invites the leader of the largest party in parliament to form a government, but in the event of no one party controlling parliament (rare in the UK, but it has happened) she would just pick one. The PM also needs to get her permission to dissolve parliament.
     
Jawbone54  (op)
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May 8, 2007, 07:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by Rumor View Post
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the Royal Family more for show and tradition these days?
That was my understanding as well.

Originally Posted by peeb View Post
Depends how you look at it - the Queen chooses the Prime Minister.
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Does she choose, or does the new PM ask for permission?
Originally Posted by peeb
Well, the PM has no constitutional role formally in th UK, the position is not elected. The Queen traditionally invites the leader of the largest party in parliament to form a government, but in the event of no one party controlling parliament (rare in the UK, but it has happened) she would just pick one. The PM also needs to get her permission to dissolve parliament.
Still...sounds like it's more of a tradition than a responsibility at this point.
     
peeb
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May 8, 2007, 07:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
That was my understanding as well.

Still...sounds like it's more of a tradition than a responsibility at this point.
Well, that is true if there is a clear electoral victory. The power of the monarch would be exposed if there is a situation where the current electoral rules do not produce a clear winner.
     
wolfen
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May 8, 2007, 10:15 PM
 
There are more knowledgeable (aka British) people on this board who could speak more to this. But my understanding of the monarchy's usefulness was more about its cultural and social value. The royal family provides a sort of national focus. It is this power to command attention and galvanize a people that makes the monarchy powerful.
Do you want forgiveness or respect?
     
Atomic Rooster
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May 8, 2007, 11:04 PM
 
I hear from a fairly reliable source (Sir John Butt, the royal plumber) that her poop don't stink but has the unmistakable fragrance of lavender.

Could any royalists confirm this?
     
PER3
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May 9, 2007, 07:47 AM
 
Originally Posted by Rumor View Post
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the Royal Family more for show and tradition these days?
Well, her representative in Australia had enough clout to be able to dismiss the Prime Minister in 1975:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austral...crisis_of_1975

Sounds like a bit more than ornamentation when push comes to shove.
     
Wiskedjak
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May 9, 2007, 08:20 AM
 
Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
I would never deny that etiquette is not Bush's strong point, but what the press is reporting goes beyond etiquette. One of the things that I like about America is our founding father's debated endlessly over simple things like the title of our President, and decided that they didn't want anything that sounded overly formal. John Adam's wanted "His Excellency," which was soundly rejected by everyone.

I still cannot fully realize the Queen's importance. I must also point out that it looks like a giant bird defecated on her hat.
The irony is that you would probably be one of the first to complain if some foreign leader got the etiquette wrong concerning your Prime Minister.
     
Dakarʒ
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May 9, 2007, 08:23 AM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
The irony is that you would probably be one of the first to complain if some foreign leader got the etiquette wrong concerning your Prime Minister.
Is this a joke? Seeing as we don't have a Prime Minister...
     
peeb
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May 9, 2007, 11:18 AM
 
Originally Posted by PER3 View Post
Well, her representative in Australia had enough clout to be able to dismiss the Prime Minister in 1975:

1975 Australian constitutional crisis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sounds like a bit more than ornamentation when push comes to shove.
Correct. Many people think the monarchy is decorative, which is usually largely true, but the monarch has a powerful role in constitutional crises.
     
CleoW
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May 9, 2007, 11:42 AM
 
So what? He misspoke. Big deal. It's not even a grave enough mistake to support the contention that he has "no etiquette."
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analogika
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May 9, 2007, 12:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by moodymonster View Post
Or this:



:: shakes head ::
     
wolfen
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May 9, 2007, 12:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogika View Post
Or this:



:: shakes head ::
It's like daddy always said. You can take a boy out of the country, but you can never take country outta the boy.

Yeehaw.
Do you want forgiveness or respect?
     
analogika
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May 9, 2007, 12:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by CleoW View Post
So what? He misspoke. Big deal. It's not even a grave enough mistake to support the contention that he has "no etiquette."
a) You don't wink at the Queen. No. Don't even bother arguing this one.

b) See above for just two more examples of embarrassing misconduct.
     
analogika
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May 9, 2007, 12:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by peeb View Post
Well, that is true if there is a clear electoral victory. The power of the monarch would be exposed if there is a situation where the current electoral rules do not produce a clear winner.
If you describe her like that, she sounds like basically the Supreme Court in the United States.
     
moodymonster
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May 9, 2007, 01:10 PM
 
I would have thought that some kind of coalition government would be formed. Doubtful the Queen has any real role in government, other than a cermimonial one - and providing continuity and a focus for loyalty other than the standing government - giving the UK a figurehead outside of government.
     
peeb
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May 9, 2007, 01:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by moodymonster View Post
I would have thought that some kind of coalition government would be formed. Doubtful the Queen has any real role in government, other than a cermimonial one - and providing continuity and a focus for loyalty other than the standing government - giving the UK a figurehead outside of government.
Well, it depends. In the Feb 1974 UK election the Labour Party gained a victory in the H of C, but the incumbent Conservative Edward Heath asked the Queen to ascent to him continuing to try to form a government by coalition with the Ulster Unionists. The Queen was in a position to choose either the incumbent Conservative, or the Labour leader (who had the most seats in parliament).
     
tie
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May 9, 2007, 10:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogika View Post
Or this:
Ugh.

Maybe he'll take some classes now. I do think, for example, that Bush's speeches have gotten much better. His gaffes are still common, but not every other sentence like they used to be. Also, what always bothered me before was that he would say something completely ludicrous and insane. That's actually normal for everyone, occasionally. But most people stop and correct themselves, whereas Bush never did. He has now started sometimes correcting himself, and that has made a huge difference for me. Somebody obviously talked to him about it.
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Monique
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May 24, 2007, 01:56 PM
 
Bush is the stupidest person alive. I swear it is as someone so correctly stated above a question of etiquette and etiquette is a question of respect and Bush does not respect anyone.

The Prime Minister in England, Canada, Australia, New Zeland and many other countries is elected twice by his party and in his constituency.

I can't wait until he meets President Sarkozy officially for the first time. Bush probably will be meeting him in jeans and screaming hee haw during the meeting all the time.
     
peeb
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May 24, 2007, 02:08 PM
 
Yep. Bring back literacy tests for high office.
     
Doofy
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May 24, 2007, 02:46 PM
 
Her Maj prolly peed herself laughing at this.

And Bush rocks.
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May 24, 2007, 02:49 PM
 
Who has "kings" and "queens" nowadays, anyway? What is this, a chess game?
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peeb
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May 24, 2007, 02:51 PM
 
America.
     
Graviton
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May 24, 2007, 03:12 PM
 
The only Queen that interests me is this one

     
   
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