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Blu-ray/HD DVD... Who is winning? (Page 134)
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Originally Posted by Chongo 
I went into my BB store and asked if the player I was looking at was a profile 1.0 or 1.1 player. The sales associate look puzzled and as if he had no idea what I was talking about. It appears they have been told to play dumb when asked what profile a player is, so as to sell off the existing profile 1.0 players
I was in BB the other day also and the Mac sales rep was just telling a customer that the MacBook Air had no USB port. I jumped in and told the customer to leave the store and go to the Applestore around the corner infront of the rep.
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AppleTV Take 2 update is now out. The biggest surprise? Apple has added 1080p output.
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Originally Posted by goMac
AppleTV Take 2 update is now out. The biggest surprise? Apple has added 1080p output.
WOW!
But I guess it's irrelevant to you, right? I mean, you keep saying that 720p is "good enough".
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1080p with an abysmal bitrate, why bother?
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
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Originally Posted by Shaddim
1080p with an abysmal bitrate, why bother?
Since their downloads will be 720p, the bitrate for 1080p videos will be whatever you feed it.
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The AppleTV doesn't play movies with 1080 resolution at all, so why do you care about 1080p output? You can as well set it to 720p and let your TV do the upscaling.
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Originally Posted by starman
WOW!
But I guess it's irrelevant to you, right? I mean, you keep saying that 720p is "good enough".
You're right, it's entirely irrelevant to what I said because the AppleTV has 1080p output, not 1080p playback.
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Quote from a poster on AVS:
Originally Posted by http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13090844#post13090844
I'm having great difficulty seeing a difference in 300 (PS3 BD) verses ATV rented HD... An occasional scene will have a bit more softness on ATV, but otherwise I can't see it. In fairness - this movie doesn't have a lot of color contrast... For my money - I'll take ATV for most HD viewing, then use BD for those all time favorites that I watch a lot...
ken
Just some early anecdotal evidence, but it sounds promising to me.
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(I've already had the chance to sit down with a Take Two AppleTV)
The sound quality is much improved. 5.1 is obviously supported, and the intro movie is now in 5.1. Aside from that, I noticed that stereo iTunes TV content sounded much better. Not sure exactly why, it could be that the AppleTV is now providing overall better audio output as a result of it's new 5.1 output code.
The menu system is a little more messy than the old one. One issue is that pulling up a list of content from an iTunes share defaults to just showing all the content in one list instead of separating it by series like the AppleTV 1.0 did by default. Pressing the right button on the remote shifts the list back to the more traditional default view. Still, it's going to be a bit of a pain for the average user.
The store loads extremely fast. I haven't had a chance to rent anything in HD yet.
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I'd really like to know if Star Trek: TMP and Star Trek II look good.
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More early reports are saying better than cable/satellite and slightly under BD/HD DVD for video quality, and same for audio.
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Originally Posted by olePigeon
It's still infuriating that the worse of the two formats is going to win.
*sarcasm* Yeah, Blu-ray is horrible. They have more CE (hardware) support, more studio support, more capacity, more bandwidth for potentially higher quality picture and sound, seamless branching and BD-Java which offers the potential of interactive games.
HD DVD on the other hand offers a Toshiba hardware monopoly, only two major studios, less capacity, less bandwidth, no seamless branching support and interactivity based on HTML and Javascript.
But that's not all... thanks to a lack of region enforcement, studios like New Line were delaying HD DVD releases behind Blu-ray and DVD because they were still in the theatres in some countries. *sarcasm*
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Originally Posted by jokell82
Quote from a poster on AVS:
Just some early anecdotal evidence, but it sounds promising to me.
Uh.... 300 looks like crap on Blu-ray, HD DVD, cable and in the theatre. The grain was intentional. Using 300 as "evidence" is laughable.
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Originally Posted by aristotles
Uh.... 300 looks like crap on Blu-ray, HD DVD, cable and in the theatre. The grain was intentional. Using 300 as "evidence" is laughable.
300 looked freaking awesome to me. And notice that I posted other people were getting similar results with other movies...
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It is nice to return here every now and then to see what delusional theories the HD-DVD supporters cook up to maintain their sanity.
Here's a reality check:
BD will replace DVD
VoD will not replace DVD
VoD will not replace BD
HD in homes will standardize at 1080p
HD-DVD is dead
The HD market is nascent but the video market is not. The former is not separate from the latter.
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Less than 10% of current DVD owners care about hidef media. About half of HDTV owners aren't even watching HD content whether it's ATSC, HD cable, HD satellite, and hidef media.
Most people are happy with DVD, even after seeing HD content. Most people are not going to replace their existing DVD collections with hidef media.
Video market is shifting to downloads. Netflix is shifting focus on downloads. Microsoft, AT&T, Apple, and all the movie studios are focusing on movie downloads.
Just as people are willing to trade quality for convenience on the music side, consumers will do the same for video. VOD is just so much more convenient.
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Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
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2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
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Originally Posted by hyteckit
Less than 10% of current DVD owners care about hidef media. About half of HDTV owners aren't even watching HD content whether it's ATSC, HD cable, HD satellite, and hidef media.
Most people are happy with DVD, even after seeing HD content. Most people are not going to replace their existing DVD collections with hidef media.
Video market is shifting to downloads. Netflix is shifting focus on downloads. Microsoft, AT&T, Apple, and all the movie studios are focusing on movie downloads.
Just as people are willing to trade quality for convenience on the music side, consumers will do the same for video. VOD is just so much more convenient.
quod erat demonstrandum 
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Originally Posted by voodoo
BD will replace DVD
At this time I think that is unlikely. Maybe if Blu-Ray undergoes some massive price cuts and studios simply stop making DVDs. But as long as Blu-Ray is a premium over DVD it will never replace it.
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Originally Posted by jokell82
At this time I think that is unlikely. Maybe if Blu-Ray undergoes some massive price cuts and studios simply stop making DVDs. But as long as Blu-Ray is a premium over DVD it will never replace it.
Agreed.
Still studios will push BD over DVD because:
1. It will make people buy the same things again, which they like possibly more than anything
2. See number 1
The premium price is only there until it isn't useful any longer - i.e. when BD and HD are mainstream.
But you already know this. It's exactly what happened to DVD when it replaced VHS.
Doesn't take a Nostradamus.
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Originally Posted by hyteckit
... people are willing to trade quality for convenience on the music side, consumers will do the same for video. VOD is just so much more convenient.
That makes me sick. It's been said it before on every-other page in this thread but for some reason it hit me that it might be true. We're so focused on good quality in this thread that I hate the thought of you-tube-quality winning out in the end. I know Apple-TV is a lot better than you-tube but I want Blu-ray to win, not crappy rental downloads. I hate most movies and the few that I love, I really love and want to own on Blu-ray. Do you predict that Blu-ray will fail or exist alongside rental downloads?
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Originally Posted by mrtew
That makes me sick. It's been said it before on every-other page in this thread but for some reason it hit me that it might be true. We're so focused on good quality in this thread that I hate the thought of you-tube-quality winning out in the end. I know Apple-TV is a lot better than you-tube but I want Blu-ray to win, not crappy rental downloads. I hate most movies and the few that I love, I really love and want to own on Blu-ray. Do you predict that Blu-ray will fail or exist alongside rental downloads?
Don't worry. That reality is far from being possible - even likely.
Within five years ISPs in Europe hope to have introduced 20+ MBPS lines, DSLs or otherwise in a significant part of homes.
That is a tentative long term plan.
Rental downloads are very cheap to maintain though, so it is no surprise foreward thinking media companies like Apple are investing in it.
However it is still and will be for some time to come, well ahead of it's past. (read: flop)
AppleTV stil isn't popular.
Oh and all this is only available in the US anyway.. even the US studios make more than half their profits outside the US where there is no internet download movie rentals equally elegant as the AppleTV nor is there an infrastructure to support it for the next five years.
I suspect the infrastructure is severely lacking in the US as well.
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Originally Posted by mrtew
That makes me sick. It's been said it before on every-other page in this thread but for some reason it hit me that it might be true. We're so focused on good quality in this thread that I hate the thought of you-tube-quality winning out in the end. I know Apple-TV is a lot better than you-tube but I want Blu-ray to win, not crappy rental downloads. I hate most movies and the few that I love, I really love and want to own on Blu-ray. Do you predict that Blu-ray will fail or exist alongside rental downloads?
As I said all along, hidef media will exist as a niche for those who want physical media and won't settle for anything less than 1080p with 7.1 channel sound. However, I believe there will be a major shift from physical media to digital download.
How many freaking physical media do I have to keep buying? Hundreds of CDs, hundreds of LD, hundreds of DVDs, hundreds of books, hundreds of video game DVDs, hundreds of CD/DVD backups of my computer data. I need a freaking warehouse for all the physical media. I'm feed up with physical media. Everytime I move, which is about once a year, I have to move all my physical media and reorganize them. Guess what? It's still in the moving box since I'm at my new place for over 5 months. I don't know where all my sh*t is. I rather have anything on a hard drive where everything is organized. I'm converting all my DVDs to mkv files and tossing all my DVDs in a box.
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Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
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Originally Posted by voodoo
AppleTV stil isn't popular.
Oh and all this is only available in the US anyway.. even the US studios make more than half their profits outside the US where there is no internet download movie rentals equally elegant as the AppleTV nor is there an infrastructure to support it for the next five years.
I suspect the infrastructure is severely lacking in the US as well.
AppleTV didn't have movie rentals until yesterday with the Take2 update. With Take2, I'm finally excited about AppleTV. Lots more people seem to be more excited about the AppleTV now with the price drop and movie rental capability.
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Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
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Geeks are excited about Take 2. Normal people will stick with physical media just like normal people stuck with purchasing CDs.
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Originally Posted by hyteckit
How many freaking physical media do I have to keep buying? Hundreds of CDs, hundreds of LD, hundreds of DVDs, hundreds of books, hundreds of video game DVDs, hundreds of CD/DVD backups of my computer data. I need a freaking warehouse for all the physical media. I'm feed up with physical media. Everytime I move, which is about once a year, I have to move all my physical media and reorganize them. Guess what? It's still in the moving box since I'm at my new place for over 5 months. I don't know where all my sh*t is. I rather have anything on a hard drive where everything is organized. I'm converting all my DVDs to mkv files and tossing all my DVDs in a box.
How many freaking hard drives do I have to keep buying to store all my new fangled hi def downloads? 100GB? 250GB? Plenty, right? Oops, I just downloaded ten to twenty hi def movies. New hard drive? How big this time? 500GB? 1TB? Dammit, I burned through those too. Now I have my library on several hard drives. Which hard drive was movie A on again? How much did I spend on all these hard drives in addition to the money I spent on the movie download? Shoot, my hard drive just crashed! I lost half my movie library! I'll call Apple for help. "Sorry sir, you should have backed up your movies." SH*T, so I'm supposed to buy another hard drive as a backup drive? ZOMGWTFBBQ!??!!
Oh, screw buying. I'll just rent. Damn those $3.99 charges to my credit card really add up...
Originally Posted by TETENAL
Geeks are excited about Take 2. Normal people will stick with physical media just like normal people stuck with purchasing CDs.
Word.
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Originally Posted by TETENAL
Geeks are excited about Take 2. Normal people will stick with physical media just like normal people stuck with purchasing CDs.
Word ^2
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Originally Posted by Oversoul
How many freaking hard drives do I have to keep buying to store all my new fangled hi def downloads? 100GB? 250GB? Plenty, right? Oops, I just downloaded ten to twenty hi def movies. New hard drive? How big this time? 500GB? 1TB? Dammit, I burned through those too. Now I have my library on several hard drives. Which hard drive was movie A on again? How much did I spend on all these hard drives in addition to the money I spent on the movie download? Shoot, my hard drive just crashed! I lost half my movie library! I'll call Apple for help. "Sorry sir, you should have backed up your movies." SH*T, so I'm supposed to buy another hard drive as a backup drive? ZOMGWTFBBQ!??!!
a) Apple will let you redownload your stuff, there's even a form on their site for it.
b) How much crap would you be buying that you'd just "burn" through a 1 terrabyte drive or even a 500 GB drive? My digital collection is only about 100 gigs right now...
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Originally Posted by voodoo
I suspect the infrastructure is severely lacking in the US as well.
People are having great success with the HD movie rentals on the US infrastructure today. Yes, it'll be great when we have more bandwidth for higher quality downloads, but as it stands internet speeds today are more than adequate.
The existence of XBox Live and AppleTV is enough to show that U.S. broadband is ready.
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Originally Posted by goMac
People are having great success with the HD movie rentals on the US infrastructure today. Yes, it'll be great when we have more bandwidth for higher quality downloads, but as it stands internet speeds today are more than adequate.
The existence of XBox Live and AppleTV is enough to show that U.S. broadband is ready.
Wrong.
Xbox Live and Apple TV both do 720p downloads, not 1080p streaming. Big difference.
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Originally Posted by goMac
a) Apple will let you redownload your stuff, there's even a form on their site for it.
b) How much crap would you be buying that you'd just "burn" through a 1 terrabyte drive or even a 500 GB drive? My digital collection is only about 100 gigs right now...
1. That hasn't been the case for me with digital music downloads. Lose them, tough luck with Apple because iTunes itself reminds you to back up your downloads.
2. I have DVDs sitting in my collection dating back more than 8 years. If I purchase a digital copy of a movie, you can be sure I'll keep that copy forever and that I'll need space to store an ever growing collection. At about 5 to 10GB per HD movie, it adds up.
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Your thinking in terms of todays tech. The future won't be downloading movies to keep on your own media... it will be a service that let's you stream any movie on demand. You won't need to store it anywhere, because you will have immediate access to it whenever you want.
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Originally Posted by ort888
Your thinking in terms of todays tech. The future won't be downloading movies to keep on your own media... it will be a service that let's you stream any movie on demand. You won't need to store it anywhere, because you will have immediate access to it whenever you want.
Do I have to reiterate this again?
The problem with the studios controlling when and where I can watch a movie is the crux of the problem. When I buy a film, I can watch it when and where I want. Are they going to stream movies to my minivan for the kids? Didn't think so. What about my iPod? What happens if a studio loses the rights to a film? Disney anyone?
Optical media is going to be king for a very long time.
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Originally Posted by starman
Wrong.
Xbox Live and Apple TV both do 720p downloads, not 1080p streaming. Big difference.
Waahhh?
Originally Posted by Oversoul
1. That hasn't been the case for me with digital music downloads. Lose them, tough luck with Apple because iTunes itself reminds you to back up your downloads.
My girlfriend and I have had our digital downloads restored several times. I was dealing with the crappy Seagate Macbook drives and lost my iTunes collection a few times.
Originally Posted by Oversoul
2. I have DVDs sitting in my collection dating back more than 8 years. If I purchase a digital copy of a movie, you can be sure I'll keep that copy forever and that I'll need space to store an ever growing collection. At about 5 to 10GB per HD movie, it adds up.
Except the AppleTV modal means you don't keep a copy of the file locally for very long. It's pretty easy just to have the movie download while you watch.
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Originally Posted by goMac
People are having great success with the HD movie rentals on the US infrastructure today. Yes, it'll be great when we have more bandwidth for higher quality downloads, but as it stands internet speeds today are more than adequate.
The existence of XBox Live and AppleTV is enough to show that U.S. broadband is ready.
Great success is what exactly? You sound like a sales-pitch. No offense, but you do.
What people are having great success? The ones with 2Mbps lines?
Would you say 2Mbps line is more than adequite? For the entire home?
Are you in fact a sales person?
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I don't even KNOW anyone doing HD rentals. How can there be "great success"?
Christ, goMac, where do you pull this crap out of?
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Originally Posted by voodoo
What people are having great success? The ones with 2Mbps lines??
My cable connection is standardly 8Mbps, 16 Mbps peak. I just have the standard connection through Comcast.
Where the heck do you people get your slow internet anyway?
Originally Posted by voodoo
Would you say 2Mbps line is more than adequite? For the entire home?
I doubt if someone is on 2 Mbps DSL they're likely to buy a nice big 1080p TV, an HD-DVD or Bluray player, or an AppleTV. Somehow I just have a funny feeling that if someone is cheap enough to skimp on the internet connection, they're probably going to skimp on their TV too.
Originally Posted by voodoo
Are you in fact a sales person?
Yes, I work for the Apple/Microsoft/ISP cartel.
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Originally Posted by starman
I don't even KNOW anyone doing HD rentals. How can there be "great success"?
Well, not knowing anyone doing HD rentals is a slightly different argument than saying HD rentals are just not possible, isn't it?
Originally Posted by starman
Christ, goMac, where do you pull this crap out of?
I'm still wondering where you're getting these conveniently slow internet connections.
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Originally Posted by starman
Do I have to reiterate this again?
The problem with the studios controlling when and where I can watch a movie is the crux of the problem. When I buy a film, I can watch it when and where I want. Are they going to stream movies to my minivan for the kids? Didn't think so. What about my iPod? What happens if a studio loses the rights to a film? Disney anyone?
Optical media is going to be king for a very long time.
Not to mention wait till the ISPs get their cut of the digital downloads. Oh yes, I very sure there will be bandwidth caps again.
--
Also with going with a HD-Def media, I don't need to replace my DVD collection. I just get selective titles I feel are worth it but the important thing is HD content going forward. Just about everything is shot in HD or higher now, that's what people are referring to when they talk about replacing DVD in the future. It would make more sense to go back just pick your big titles and upgrade those if you want, but going forward all new material will be HD.
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Originally Posted by goMac
I doubt if someone is on 2 Mbps DSL they're likely to buy a nice big 1080p TV, an HD-DVD or Bluray player, or an AppleTV. Somehow I just have a funny feeling that if someone is cheap enough to skimp on the internet connection, they're probably going to skimp on their TV too.
That's a geek speaking. (No offense to you.) Seriously, some people have different priorities. A big screen tv for sports or the kids, maybe a hi-def player for movie night with friends or family, and maybe these same people just use the internet for web browsing and email. For a lot of people, they don't need (or even realize the difference of) top-tier internet connection packages when they can save $10-20 on their monthly bill. For them, internet basically boils down to dial-up or broadband; maaaybe cable or dsl; and definitely "wtf is FiOS?"
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Originally Posted by exca1ibur
Also with going with a HD-Def media, I don't need to replace my DVD collection. I just get selective titles I feel are worth it but the important thing is HD content going forward. Just about everything is shot in HD or higher now, that's what people are referring to when they talk about replacing DVD in the future. It would make more sense to go back just pick your big titles and upgrade those if you want, but going forward all new material will be HD.
Exactly. Which title is worth the double dip?
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Originally Posted by Oversoul
That's a geek speaking. (No offense to you.) Seriously, some people have different priorities. A big screen tv for sports or the kids, maybe a hi-def player for movie night with friends or family, and maybe these same people just use the internet for web browsing and email. For a lot of people, they don't need top-tier internet connection packages when they can save $10-20 on their monthly bill.
The reason I don't know many people with DSL is because most people aren't within range of the DSL routing office, or because most people already have cable tv, so it's easier for them to upgrade to a broadband cable connection.
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Originally Posted by goMac
Well, not knowing anyone doing HD rentals is a slightly different argument than saying HD rentals are just not possible, isn't it?
I'm still wondering where you're getting these conveniently slow internet connections.
You didn't say "possible", you said "great success".
If it's a "great success" then why don't people know about it? It must be the best kept secret in the world.
And where did you pull "slow internet connections" from?
Really, you're acting just as idiotic here as you do in the gaming threads. You make crap up, and then change your wordings.
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Originally Posted by goMac
My cable connection is standardly 8Mbps, 16 Mbps peak. I just have the standard connection through Comcast.
Where the heck do you people get your slow internet anyway?
Oh it's just the standard connection around here for people who don't want to spend too much on internet because they only use it for email and websurfing.
Sadly in most rural areas, suburbs and small towns it is the max speed available. Now, looking at the US of A:
Top News - Study: U.S. lags in ’net speed
Average download speed of 1.97Mbps in the US roughly six months ago. I think it is safe to assume that things have not improved significantly since then.
I doubt if someone is on 2 Mbps DSL they're likely to buy a nice big 1080p TV, an HD-DVD or Bluray player, or an AppleTV. Somehow I just have a funny feeling that if someone is cheap enough to skimp on the internet connection, they're probably going to skimp on their TV too.
People don't buy HDTVs and BD-Players to watch streamed content off the internet. Obviously they want to use their BD player with their new HDTV.
Even so -- about 30% of homes in the US have HDTV. Assuming they all have internet and 100% faster than the average, they still have only 3Mpbs in download speed.
People in rural areas can have HDTVs, but can't have fast internet. Everyone can have HDTVs and BD-players and they also know how to use them.
Renting off the internet is way too nerdy.
Yes, I work for the Apple/Microsoft/ISP cartel.
Makes sense to me..
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Originally Posted by Oversoul
Exactly. Which title is worth the double dip?
Blade Runner
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Too bad all of his movies suck.
He really comes off as an arrogant *********.
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Originally Posted by ort888
Too bad all of his movies suck.
He really comes off as an arrogant *********.
All of his movies suck but they sell like crazy. I wish people weren't dumb. Then maybe Michael Bay wouldn't be allowed to make movies and HD DVD would have won. 
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Originally Posted by starman
But was he wrong?
Nope, he was right on the money. I just hope he won't make more movies 
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I could take Sean Connery in a fight... I could definitely take him.
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