[Bloupy]

I have just checked some pics of the GeForce3 and I noticed that it was only a little longer than my Cube's Rage 128 Pro. As I can put my finger between my Rage 128 Pro and the border of the Cube I think that the standard GeForce3 should feet in the Cube's case. Anyway, it will with a little tweaking because the card has a large component free border.

The only problem could be the AGP2x slot but as the PC GeForce3 works on both AGP2x and AGP4x, I think it should be OK on the Mac too (even if Apple doesn't advertise it to sell more new G4s).

What do U think ?

[Cipher13]

What is the cooling mechanism on the GeForce 3?

Cipher13

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AIM: Cipher1387
ICQ: 48111606
mail: [email protected]

[G4ME]

Also what kind of heat is being porduced. That crad has to be running a littel hot, andyour cube its made to deal with hot things, so it will probably sleep when ever you get into something high graphica like a game unless you want to use a couple of fans one to force air under anda onther to suck air out the top.

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I Have a Super Computer

In the Cube, the video card has its own pit on the top for heat dissipation. So I think that with the standard GeForce cooling system, things should work well.

The video card heat should not affect the CPU because the CPU is on one side of the motherboard and the video card is on the other side.

Just my impression but any more advised opinion is welcome.

[DoctorGonzo]

Putting a Geeforce 3 in your Cube would be an extremly bad idea.

Even Apple admits it cannot withstand the heat generated by the card.

The substandard 2x AGP implementation would be working against you anyway.

[iPad]

The Geforce 3 Cards already have a mini HSF combo on them.

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NO SIG YO

[JLannoo]

Well my apartment was around 90 degrees for two days just recently (AC broke) My stock cube didn't lock once...they can really take the heat. My Athlon wouldn't say running.

Anyway I'm sure someone will try it soon enough ..then we will have the answer instead of speculating.

[This message has been edited by JLannoo (edited 05-05-2001).]

[wumeng]

Originally posted by DoctorGonzo:
The substandard 2x AGP implementation would be working against you anyway.

Would the GeForce3 even work at all in a 2x AGP slot? Or can 4x AGP cards down-shift to work at the 2x AGP speeds?

[JLannoo]

Originally posted by wumeng:
Would the GeForce3 even work at all in a 2x AGP slot? Or can 4x AGP cards down-shift to work at the 2x AGP speeds?

The GeForce 3 does support 2x AGP...no question about that.
The problem...apparently is that Apple 2x AGP is non-standard and not a full implementation.

I still think it will work...unless Apple some how artificially prevents it.

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-JLannoo
TiVo Zealot

G4 Cube 450
448MB RAGE 128 Pro

Athlon ThunderBird 800
256MB GeForce 2 GTS

[Cipher13]

That'd be right. Couldn't be a normal bloody implementation could it.

ADC... they're own little AGP... I'm gonna email Jobs a definion of the word "standard".

What makes you think its not standard?

Cipher13

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AIM: Cipher1387
ICQ: 48111606
mail: [email protected]

[JLannoo]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
That'd be right. Couldn't be a normal bloody implementation could it.

ADC... they're own little AGP... I'm gonna email Jobs a definion of the word "standard".

What makes you think its not standard?

Cipher13

Honestly only from what I have read here from a few long time posters...I'm sure they could better explain. Apparently its not feature complete. Its missing Fast Writes and a few other features...I still think it should work and be very quick. I have my current GeForce 2 GTS set to 2x and have fastwrites disabled other then loss of stability when I had it at x4 and on I couldn't tell the difference. I know the GF3 is said to need more bandwidth so maybe that analogy is moot. However I was reading about it on the Nvidia site in I think the Geforce 3 overview PDFand it was going on about how they have reduced bandwidth needs so that the AGP bus would not be a bottle neck....so I dont know. I plan on getting a GeForce 3 for my PC when I can. I'll just have to give it go and see.


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-JLannoo
TiVo Zealot

G4 Cube 450
448MB RAGE 128 Pro

Athlon ThunderBird 800
256MB GeForce 2 GTS

[This message has been edited by JLannoo (edited 05-07-2001).]

[someone]

Aah...so even though Apple's AGP implementation is still only partial and somewhat non-standard, a GeForce 3 chip can downshift into 2x AGP. The only problem would be the heat.

DoctorGonzo, when you say that the substandard 2x AGP implementation would be working against you anyway, what exactly do you mean? Would there be crashes? CPU issues? Graphics detail problems?

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by someone:
Aah...so even though Apple's AGP implementation is still only partial and somewhat non-standard, a GeForce 3 chip can downshift into 2x AGP. The only problem would be the heat.

DoctorGonzo, when you say that the substandard 2x AGP implementation would be working against you anyway, what exactly do you mean? Would there be crashes? CPU issues? Graphics detail problems?

It'd be a bottleneck - I mean you have a GeForce 3 which is a very hungry video card (if you want it to work at its full potential), and on the 2X AGP bus only half as much data can be delivered to it in the same amount of time as on a 4X AGP bus... so you would get sub-optimal performance on the card compared to a 4X AGP comp with it, and that might be enough of a performance hit to make a slower card just as fast... if you get what I mean.

I don't know about instability and whatnot - I don't think anyone does right now as its not out, but this non-standard implementation of AGP 2X could be a problem...

Cipher13

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AIM: Cipher1387
ICQ: 48111606
mail: [email protected]

[This message has been edited by Cipher13 (edited 05-06-2001).]

[SpeedRacer]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
It'd be a bottleneck.... on the 2X AGP bus only half as much data can be delivered to it in the same amount of time as on a 4X AGP bus... so you would get sub-optimal performance on the card compared to a 4X AGP comp with it, and that might be enough of a performance hit to make a slower card just as fast... if you get what I mean.

How does the 4x vs. 2x AGP controversy compare to the 2x vs. PCI debate? Reason i ask is that if the performance ratios are similar couldn't we potentially utilize comparisons of the same video cards running on PCI vs. AGP 2x (Radeon, etc) to determine the performance hit from 4x to 2x?

Just a thought.

Also, from everything i have experienced the iMacs and the laptops generate considerable more heat than the Cubes. If heat is so much of a concern for folks, perhaps folks with Cubes/PB/iBooks/iMacs want to post their temps (though i imagine it will be quite a while before we see a g3 in an iMac/PB/iB).

Speed

[wumeng]

Originally posted by SpeedRacer:
Also, from everything i have experienced the iMacs and the laptops generate considerable more heat than the Cubes. If heat is so much of a concern for folks, perhaps folks with Cubes/PB/iBooks/iMacs want to post their temps (though i imagine it will be quite a while before we see a g3 in an iMac/PB/iB).

I presume you mean a G4, given that G3s are now in iMacs at the moment...

As for heat issues, I can imagine the situation in R&D... "Cap'n, the coolers cannae take anymore!"

[DoctorGonzo]

DoctorGonzo, when you say that the substandard 2x AGP implementation would be working against you anyway, what exactly do you mean? Would there be crashes? CPU issues? Graphics detail problems?

In one word: Speed.

If you look at the benchmarks for good, modern video cards on the Mac, as opposed to the PC, the Mac is way behind when using comparable hardware.

Now, before the new G4s, it was thought by some that it processor or driver issues were at fault. However, from what I've heard, the new Macs provide significantly better performance than those of 10 months ago. The 2x AGP slot is missing a number of features, like write combining for example, which finally made it to the new G4s. While the newer machines can pump out framerates like there is no tomorrow (still not as fast as the PC, though) the same card on the 2x AGP bus will not run much better than earlier cards, when it's not even saturating the bus. (Check the framerate database at Xlr8yourmac.com for more)

While a lot of people have debated on the exact causes of this performance gap, one thing is clear. Apple's 2x AGP implementation does not provide the performance that it should and is missing features. It really isn't that much better than a PCI slot.

[juanvaldes]

Originally posted by wumeng:
I presume you mean a G4, given that G3s are now in iMacs at the moment...

I believe he means Geforce 3, not G3.

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"Imagine the disincentive to software development if after months of work another company could come along and copy your work and market it under its own name...without legal restraints to such copying, companies like Apple could not afford to advance the state of the art."
- Bill Gates, 1983 (New York Times, 25 Sep 1983, p. F2)

I have the "Digital Audio" so I'm AGP 4X...but about AGP 2X on mac not having many of the 'features' of PC AGP 2X, I saw who cares.

Features such as: Fast writes, video shadowing and alike all either decrease performance or sacrifice a good deal of stability for some performance and higher 3D2000 Mark's (sigh).

I think you are fine with 2X, although I would not suggest sticking a GF 3 in there, just for heat purposes; time will tell, perhaps they will make a MX version of the GF 3?



-Phorte

Former Athlon 1GHz owner

now A G4-533 owner

Uhhh people.... what�s the debate about AGP 2x Vs. 4x? Name two games that take advantage of more than a 2x can handle. Go ahead. You will see in ALL benchmarks that AGP 2x and 4x are VERY close. Within 1fps. Or the same. The diff between AGP and PCI is even very slim. Why? Because games wont catch up to even AGP 2x for at least another YEAR or more. The Gforce3 is ahead of its time. Unless you have a game that takes advantage of everything that powerhouse has got you wont need anything faster than 2x. There is no such game. There are games that come close. The issue is not AGP X. Its will X card along with X game take full advantage of AGP 2x and beyond. Not yet, and not for a while.

[voodoo]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
That'd be right. Couldn't be a normal bloody implementation could it.

ADC... they're own little AGP... I'm gonna email Jobs a definion of the word "standard".

What makes you think its not standard?

Cipher13

You have Steve's e-mail?

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\ / ( ) ( ) | ) ( ) ( )

[Cipher13]

Doesn't everyone?


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AIM: Cipher1387
ICQ: 48111606
mail: [email protected]

[applenut1]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
That'd be right. Couldn't be a normal bloody implementation could it.

ADC... they're own little AGP... I'm gonna email Jobs a definion of the word "standard".

What makes you think its not standard?

Cipher13

you do realize that the ADC bus is completely independant of the AGP bus right? and that Apple's AGP 4X is standard and ADC has absolutely no effect. right? ADC is just a little connector in front of the AGP slot which compatible cards plug into. get your facts straight.


And yes, Apple's AGP 2X has problems that prevent some cards from working which is one reason we never saw dual rage 128 cards like PCs. Apple's implementation was incompatible.

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by applenut1:

you do realize that the ADC bus is completely independant of the AGP bus right? and that Apple's AGP 4X is standard and ADC has absolutely no effect. right? ADC is just a little connector in front of the AGP slot which compatible cards plug into. get your facts straight.


And yes, Apple's AGP 2X has problems that prevent some cards from working which is one reason we never saw dual rage 128 cards like PCs. Apple's implementation was incompatible.

Before you go on telling me to "get my facts straight" how about you think before you post and try and comprehend what is being said.

If you can't understand my post, well thats your problem. I'm sorry if its a little over your head.

ADC is another example I gave of non-standard technology used by Apple.

Do you understand now or shall I explain it again? Slower this time?

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AIM: Cipher1387
ICQ: 48111606
mail: [email protected]

[This message has been edited by Cipher13 (edited 05-12-2001).]

[applenut1]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
Before you go on telling me to "get my facts straight" how about you think before you post and try and comprehend what is being said.

If you can't understand my post, well thats your problem. I'm sorry if its a little over your head.

ADC is another example I gave of non-standard technology used by Apple.

Do you understand now or shall I explain it again? Slower this time?

non-standard? forgive me but I thought VGA on the back of every mac now was pretty standard.

oh wait. Apple's monitors have ADC and only work on macs. what a crime.

you'll probably say only some macs have it and they are the newer ones. well, that's life. get over it.

[JUnderwood]

I have seen articles on the gf3 and that a smaller card would be made for the cube. But they are all just rumors. I, personally doubt it.

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Make 7 Up Yours.
Jonathan

[applenut1]

I wouldn't doubt it. I have heard rumors of plans for a Geforce 3 MX

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by applenut1:

non-standard? forgive me but I thought VGA on the back of every mac now was pretty standard.

oh wait. Apple's monitors have ADC and only work on macs. what a crime.

you'll probably say only some macs have it and they are the newer ones. well, that's life. get over it.

And still you avoid the whole thing about you flaming me and just being entirely wrong.

Go back to AI man, if you're just gonna be inflammatory, then we don't want you here, ok? AI's down? Aww, what a shame...

Yeah, thats right, the issue was NON STANDARD connectors, no? In which the ADC monitors fit, NO?

Yeah.


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AIM: Cipher1387
ICQ: 48111606
mail: [email protected]

[Frumpy]

That would be amazing to have a G4 cube with a GeForce3! I don't think you'lll see such a thing until sometime next year, if ever, but it's a nice thought.

[applenut1]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
And still you avoid the whole thing about you flaming me and just being entirely wrong.

Go back to AI man, if you're just gonna be inflammatory, then we don't want you here, ok? AI's down? Aww, what a shame...

Yeah, thats right, the issue was NON STANDARD connectors, no? In which the ADC monitors fit, NO?

Yeah.

admit you were wrong and go outside. you could use it

[iPad]

Jesus christ, ok, it's not hard to interpret:

Cipher is saying how Apple's 2X AGP is different and how it's Apple's "standard", how it lacks features such as write-combining etc, and how this is similar to ADC because ADC is Apple's standard for their monitors as well. VGA was not part of it, it was more of an issue of how Apple's newest monitors will NOT work with older macs introduced before MWNY 2000. Both these situations limits his machine, or other machines, etc to expand to what they are capable of if Apple hadn't done this and this. Therefore, both instances piss him off..

As for AI, it's pretty much become daily routine when the forums are unaccessable.

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NO SIG YO

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by applenut1:

admit you were wrong and go outside. you could use it

I bet I get outside a lot more than you do man... and what a GREAT comeback that was, by the way. I just wanted to congratulate you on your persistence that you're right about something (which, in this case, you're totally not), your stupidity, your inability to interpret the posts, so it seems, and your reply which responds to nothing I said.

Well done. Now, go away


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AIM: Cipher1387
ICQ: 48111606
mail: [email protected]

Cipher--
Obviously by your post total, you don't get outside. I hope you die soon because losers like you have nothing to contribute to a productive society other than worthless debates about worthless matters. You spend all of your time here, posting, what is it, 60 times a day... trying to make up for your lack of a real life. Develop some social skills and make some real friends ASAP. And before you say you do have real friends, don't even go there, because we all know you have nothing to do with yourself, which is obvious considering the time you spend here.
You the antithesis of someone like steve jobs too. You're the type of person he leasts wants representing apple users.

Do us a favor, go get a gun and blow your head off.

P.S. How many times a day do you beat off? My bet is on 4....

[JLannoo]

Originally posted by CipherHater:
Cipher--
Obviously by your post total, you don't get outside. I hope you die soon because losers like you have nothing to contribute to a productive society other than worthless debates about worthless matters. You spend all of your time here, posting, what is it, 60 times a day... trying to make up for your lack of a real life. Develop some social skills and make some real friends ASAP. And before you say you do have real friends, don't even go there, because we all know you have nothing to do with yourself, which is obvious considering the time you spend here.
You the antithesis of someone like steve jobs too. You're the type of person he leasts wants representing apple users.

Do us a favor, go get a gun and blow your head off.

P.S. How many times a day do you beat off? My bet is on 4....

A fine example of why we should eliminate anon posting.




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-JLannoo
TiVo Zealot

G4 Cube 450
448MB RAGE 128 Pro

Athlon ThunderBird 800
256MB GeForce 2 GTS

[SpeedRacer]

So ego's aside, who here's running the GeForce 3 on their Macintosh right now and can actually say that it will/will not run in my Cube?

...anybody...

Speed

[applenut1]

Originally posted by CipherHater:
Cipher--
Obviously by your post total, you don't get outside. I hope you die soon because losers like you have nothing to contribute to a productive society other than worthless debates about worthless matters. You spend all of your time here, posting, what is it, 60 times a day... trying to make up for your lack of a real life. Develop some social skills and make some real friends ASAP. And before you say you do have real friends, don't even go there, because we all know you have nothing to do with yourself, which is obvious considering the time you spend here.
You the antithesis of someone like steve jobs too. You're the type of person he leasts wants representing apple users.

Do us a favor, go get a gun and blow your head off.

P.S. How many times a day do you beat off? My bet is on 4....

just so you don't go running to conclusions. this was not me

please, whoever you are, leave. you're a disgrace to the boards.


as for the Geforce 3. In its current incarnation it is definitely incompatible with the cube.

what might be a possibility is too install a fan in the cube. it does have a fan bracket surprisingly

[iPad]

I wouldn't be surprised if CipherHater was applenut..

[Cipher13]

The mere fact that he needed to post that says more than I could against him (re. CipherHater)


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AIM: Cipher1387
ICQ: 48111606
mail: [email protected]

[cube-dude]

Since this is going nowhere quickly, thread closed.

The IP's are different; I checked that yesterday.

I encourage those who believe there should be no unregistered postings on the MacNN forums to e-mail the admins at [email protected] and/or comment at http://forums.macnn.com/cgi-bin/Forum8/HTML/000395.html

Also, if you witness inappropriate postings (language, abusive comments, etc.) please e-mail that forum's respective moderators (in Power Mac's case, myself or Oscar) or Misha at [email protected] with a heads up. Thanks!

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[email protected]
450 128 20 9.0.4 17 Radeon
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