[Rodster]

Hi all, I've finally decided to bite the bullet and buy Mac Office 2004. At CompUSA I saw the Retail version for $399 and the Student Edition for $129.

What's the difference between Retail and Student Edition? I'm not a student so can I still use it? Btw will Mac Office 2004 run decent on my G4 eMac 1.25ghz with stock ram?

Thanks !

[ManOfSteal]

If you can get away with the Student version (shouldn't be a problem at CompUSA...I hear they don't check) then go for it. It'll get you (3) installs instead of the single install off the "Retail" version. They are byte for byte identical versions as far as features and programs and stuff go.

From what I understand, you can't "upgrade" though if you buy the Student version to the next version of Office that is released. You would need to re-buy the suite again.

And yes, your machine can run Office:2004 just fine.

[D'Espice]

You're not allowed to purchase or use the Student Edition if you're not a student. This is a special license for educational purposes only, commercial use is prohibited as well.

[Rodster]

Originally posted by D'Espice:
You're not allowed to purchase or use the Student Edition if you're not a student. This is a special license for educational purposes only, commercial use is prohibited as well.

Well based on what ManofSteal said if CompUSA doesn't ask for proof of me being a student and Office 2004 doesn't ask for verification I don't see what's the big deal.

At least I paid for the software.

[D'Espice]

The big deal is that it's just like pirating software. You'll end up with no valid license for Office but you'll pay 130 bucks. Think about it.

[Montanan]

Originally posted by D'Espice:
You're not allowed to purchase or use the Student Edition if you're not a student. This is a special license for educational purposes only, commercial use is prohibited as well.

That's not exactly true. You can legally purchase and use the Student Edition if you -- or any member of your family -- are either a student or an educator. So if you have a kid in elementary school, for example, then you qualify. A huge number of Americans can legally purchase and use this software.

Me, I figured I could buy it based on the fact that I'm educating my Border Collie to respond to my voice commands. But that might have been stretching things just a bit ...

[Nivag]

well, i've heard M$ would rather you buy a licence than none at all. hence why they don't check if you are legit or not.

but i'm sure dog training counts as well, you must be planning your lessons on Powerpoint.

[ManOfSteal]

Originally posted by D'Espice:
You'll end up with no valid license for Office but you'll pay 130 bucks. Think about it.

[kcmac]

Of course you have a valid license. In fact, you get 3 of them.

They just don't want you using it for commercial purposes. (ie, things you do with Word when you are making money... like at your job.)

How is buying software in any shape or form pirating unless you know it is coming from a suspect source? When you are paying MS (or their vendor) $149 that is hardly pirating.

Now if you use it at your place of employment, you are breaking the spirit, intent of the software agreement.

But MS has taken care of this by not allowing you to upgrade. So if they come out with a new version of Office each year or so and you are needing to keep up, you have to pay $149 again for this privilege.

Plus they have you hooked on Office.

Simple fact is, Office is like a lot of apps out there. Defacto standard. Jack the price to ridiculous numbers. Create real piracy. (Some call it sharing. I disagree.) Create an artificially low "student" price to reel in students and those that cannot afford the software. (Everyone but corporate America.)

MS even has a program that if you use MS Office or other apps at work, you can buy another license through your employer for literally nothing. Don't you think they are even happier to have you pay $149 instead of taking advantage of this nugget?

Paying MS for their software is not piracy.

[Randman]

Don't be stupid. If you're not a student and paying half the price of the standard (and getting 3 licenses), it's paramount to stealing. Justifying it doesn't make it right, or legal.

[kcmac]

Those licenses stay right in our house. Not being distributed or shared in any way.

We have two kids. Both students. I am not. So I shouldn't use it? You think my 10 year old daughter wants to use Word or Office?

Get real.

When I can buy directly from MS with no questions or proof asked, how is that being stupid?

They want a sale. I want to buy. Sounds American to me.

Maybe they should price Office for the consumer and not just corporate America. Then they would have complete domination. And it would get rid of this ridiculous shroud they call the student version and the dance it creates.

Yeah, I'm dancin'. However, I can't say I was attracted by the quality or liveliness of the music.

[Randman]

Then you have students in your home and are eligible for the student version legally.

[kcmac]

Even if my "students" don't use it.

Interesting.

Funny how skirting the issue like this by using an excuse is okay and different than someone buying and using the software when not a student.

Kinda hypocritical. Also sounds American to me.

How are they going to enforce something like this? They can't break your license with a patch if you haven't shared or distributed it.

If you are not using it commercially they can't go to your place of employment and discover it.

Will they suddenly go back and search all of their sales records and send out a mailer asking for proof which by the way they did not need when you purchased it?

Will they search residential America looking for student versions in use by non students?

They are glad to have your money. They are elated to know you need Word. Lord knows, most of us don't want it.

And if you need to update, well then. Pony up an extra $149.

[Rodster]

I don't see it as pirating or stealing. It's a "LOOP HOLE" plain and simple. If Microsoft or the retailer doesn't ask for a student verification id#, it's not my concern. I'm paying for the software, and next year i'll pay another $149 for Office 2005.

Here's my definition of stealing or piracy. If I were to gain a legit copy of Tiger when it comes out and if I were to install it on my eMac then that is stealing and is pirating. If I paid for software and I took advantage of a loophole then the retailers and MS or whoever makes the software needs to address it in the future.

[Wiskedjak]

I work for an academic reseller. Microsoft has told us that they don't care who buys the academic version of their products, just so long as they are aware that they can't use these for commercial purposes and that doing so is equal to pirating the software.

Incidentally, MS is now selling site licences through academic resellers to students on many campuses. For these the student must have current and valid student id. These site licences sell for about half of the academic boxed version.

[kcmac]

Originally posted by Wiskedjak:
Incidentally, MS is now selling site licences through academic resellers to students on many campuses. For these the student must have current and valid student id. These site licences sell for about half of the academic boxed version.

Hah! The student version of the student version. Brilliant!

[ManOfSteal]

Originally posted by Wiskedjak:
I work for an academic reseller. Microsoft has told us that they don't care who buys the academic version of their products, just so long as they are aware that they can't use these for commercial purposes and that doing so is equal to pirating the software.

Exactly. This "fact" was even printed in Wired and MacWorld in months past to notify those who don't want to pay for the "Standard/Professional" version of the other possibilties.

[mitchell_pgh]

I know a handful of people that pick up the student version. I don't think it's the end of the world, but technically it's in violation of the license you agree to prior to installing the software. I don't see the FBI knocking down your door for such a violation... but it's not 100% legal.

That being said, if they do card you, you really shouldn't argue with them.

[CatOne]

Originally posted by Rodster:
I don't see it as pirating or stealing. It's a "LOOP HOLE" plain and simple. If Microsoft or the retailer doesn't ask for a student verification id#, it's not my concern. I'm paying for the software, and next year i'll pay another $149 for Office 2005.

Here's my definition of stealing or piracy. If I were to gain a legit copy of Tiger when it comes out and if I were to install it on my eMac then that is stealing and is pirating. If I paid for software and I took advantage of a loophole then the retailers and MS or whoever makes the software needs to address it in the future.

It doesn't really matter what your definition of stealing or piracy is. What matters is Microsoft's definition, and the legal profession's definition.

You're taking advantage of a loophole, and using it outside the actual intent of it. Does that mean you'll get caught? No. But, if Microsoft got a wild hair and decided to go after you? Well, in that case you'd probably have to pony up (you might kick and scream, but if they decided to go all RIAA on you, you'd probably lose). So go ahead and buy the academic version if you want -- it's your conscience -- but my advice would not be to tell everyone far and wide that you've done it and that there's nothing wrong with it -- because again what YOU define "piracy" or "intent" as doesn't matter one bit.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
I know a handful of people that pick up the student version. I don't think it's the end of the world, but technically it's in violation of the license you agree to prior to installing the software. I don't see the FBI knocking down your door for such a violation... but it's not 100% legal.

That being said, if they do card you, you really shouldn't argue with them.

It is 100% legal as long as you don't use it for commercial purposes

[Wiskedjak]

Maya Personal Learning Edition
Freeware. No student id required.
http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/15254
" Maya Personal Learning Edition gives 3D graphics and animation students, current industry professionals, and those interested in breaking into the world of computer graphics (CG) an opportunity to explore all aspects of the award winning Maya Complete software in a personal, non-commercial capacity."

"Education" is a very vague word. You could be educating yourself about Microsoft Office, just as Alias intends the use of their Personal Learning Edition software.

[D'Espice]

Originally posted by CatOne:
It doesn't really matter what your definition of stealing or piracy is. What matters is Microsoft's definition, and the legal profession's definition.

You're taking advantage of a loophole, and using it outside the actual intent of it. Does that mean you'll get caught? No. But, if Microsoft got a wild hair and decided to go after you? Well, in that case you'd probably have to pony up (you might kick and scream, but if they decided to go all RIAA on you, you'd probably lose). So go ahead and buy the academic version if you want -- it's your conscience -- but my advice would not be to tell everyone far and wide that you've done it and that there's nothing wrong with it -- because again what YOU define "piracy" or "intent" as doesn't matter one bit.

I totally second that. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't their EULA (the one you have to agree to before you use it for the first time) state that a students version is only to be used by actual students or teachers? Not by anybody else? I don't know about Office 2004 and certainly not about the American EULA, but the German EULA for Office v. X states exactly that.
My point is that if this passage is nowhere to be found in their EULA then it's legal to use it even if you ain't no student. If it is in there then it's illegal.

Btw, I LOVE that expression... "to go all RIAA on somebody". BI***IN' DUDE!

[pliny]

people should try to read the relevant info before presrnting their opinions/best guesses/diatribes, as fact.

here is the relevant section for this edition of ms office 2004

The Student & Teacher End User License Agreement (EULA) is restricted to non commercial usage only and requires that the customer must be a Qualified Educational User or the parent/guardian of a Qualified Educational User who is a minor. Qualified Educational Users include:

1. Full or part-time students

2. Home-schooled students
3. Full or part-time faculty or staff

*
The Student & Teacher EULA will allow a student/teacher to qualify for purchase but to then be able to also use the product after graduation or dropping from school.

*
* A family license provision allows non-student/teacher members of the same household to use the product.
A single license of Student & Teacher will allow up to 3 computers in the same household to legally install the product.

So you can be a member of the same household and use this provided some one in the household is a student/teacher at some point during the purchase.

As for pirating from MS, give me a break. They are making profits of >9 billion a year and the idea that pirating hurts them IS A JOKE.

if people are pirating their software becasue they couldn't afford to buy it anyway they are not losing anything because there would have been no sale.

[CatOne]

Originally posted by Wiskedjak:
It is 100% legal as long as you don't use it for commercial purposes

No wisked, it is NOT 100% legal. It is ONLY 100% legal if you meet the criteria specified in the EULA. See the citation in the message just above this one.

Just because Microsoft (or someone *at* microsoft) says it's not worth chasing you for the infraction if you use the software but don't meet the requirements, does NOT make it legal.

If you drive 57 mph in a 55 zone and go past a cop, the fact that he doesn't pull you over does NOT make 57 mph legal. It's just, he doesn't feel like busting your chops at that time. It doesn't mean he CANNOT (and from the whining I've seen people throw out for getting busted driving 59 in a 55 "it was just 4 mph over!" you'd think people can't tell the difference).

[D'Espice]

Originally posted by pliny:
if people are pirating their software becasue they couldn't afford to buy it anyway they are not losing anything because there would have been no sale.

You know, even though I agree with what you said prior to this statement, I cannot agree with that. It's just a sad excuse people have been using for years. The point is, if you cannot afford it then don't buy it - use a cheaper or even free alternative. Not having money is no excuse for software piracy.

[Lee33]

Originally posted by D'Espice:
Not having money is no excuse for software piracy.

I agree. I wonder how these folks would feel if others stole what ever it is THEY do for a living?

[kcmac]

This thread began by someone asking if they could BUY the student version of Mac Office. It was and is not a piracy thread.

[pliny]

MS bullied companies and illegally used its monopoly to make its way to >$9 billion annum profits and still gets fined big, and people worry about the little guy breaking the spirit or letter of some edu license?

Maybe these people can pay a little fine, say 1 cent per violation while at the same time neither admitting or denying any wrongdoing.

[Chuckit]

Originally posted by Lee33:
I agree. I wonder how these folks would feel if others stole what ever it is THEY do for a living?

Where in this thread did anyone recommend theft?

[poocat]

this thread is patently absurd.

[USNA91]

FWIW, I bought the Student version at the Apple store along with the PB. The sales guy just looked at me and said, "Here. Anyone blowing $3K on a laptop in my store isn't going to catch any crap from me about being a student."

The way I see it, I'm using it strictly for my own use, and I'm always learning anyway. It's bad enough I had to switch over to Mac because their POS OS drove me to.

I paid for it. It's mine. MS can go jump in a lake....