Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

namannik · Jul 24, 2003, 04:11 PM

What do you think? Will Apple sue them for stealing thier ad campaign and music store? I think they might, because this is an even more blatant rip-off than that eMachines iMac knock-off several years ago. And we all know how that ended up...

Mastrap · Jul 24, 2003, 04:18 PM

All is fair...

This is hardly the first music download service. emusic.com, to give and example, has been going for some time. With no restrictions whatsoever.

icruise · Jul 24, 2003, 04:35 PM

I don't think Apple could sue over the concept of the online music store, but those ads and the slogan "Music for the Rest of Us?" That's stealing right there, if you ask me.

Superchicken · Jul 24, 2003, 04:47 PM

I hope they do. I just want that site to have as much trouble as possible

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Jul 24, 2003, 05:15 PM

I don't really see what grounds they would have.

Other then the "They are big poopy heads" argument.

namannik · Jul 24, 2003, 06:02 PM

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
I don't really see what grounds they would have.

Other then the "They are big poopy heads" argument.

The grounds would probably be the advertisements. I know that I'm not the only one who thought that BuyMusic's ad was an Apple ad.

BasketofPuppies · Jul 24, 2003, 06:39 PM

I wrote in another thread that we should expect to see two lawsuits come out of this:

1. from Apple for an advertising campaign that can easily confuse consumers

2. from consumers (a class action lawsuit) because it appears that the people in the ad are holding iPods, which WMA, the file format BuyMusic.com uses, doesn't work on.

I think we can assume that Amazon.com, Roxio, and whoever else gets into the legal (and non-subscription) electronic music distribution business will know better than to copy - this can't be justified as parody - a competitor's advertising campaign.

But how long until one of these services offer music from Sanctuary? Contrary to popular belief, the big five music labels are not the only major labels out there.

NYCFarmboy · Jul 24, 2003, 06:41 PM

Just saw the ad...could have sworn it was an Apple Ad until the end....

I think they are trying to trick apple into suing them to get publicity.

very tacky if you ask me.

zigzag · Jul 24, 2003, 11:32 PM

I just saw the ad. My impression is that it's poking fun at Apple, which is not grounds for a lawsuit. I would suggest getting over it.

AB^2=BCxAC · Jul 24, 2003, 11:43 PM

Imitation is the hallmark of success. I still think Windows XP was called XP because Apple decided to name their OS 10 with a roman X. It's a very old ploy: take someone's innovation and make it seem like a consumer trend so that your competition's profits are diluted.

Remember, Hollywood and book publishers follow this logic all the time. When a project is put on the slate that other companies are envious of, the other companies rush to put out a similar product to capitilize quickly, even if it's inferior. If they can manage to put out a cheap Asteroid movie before the one that was slated first, the audiences lose interest in the good one before it even comes out, and the competition wins by just making people avoid a film, let alone drawing people to other movies.

I think those buymusic.com commercials are an obvious copy and setback to Apple's own commercials.

Apple paved a path and buymusic collected over $40 million for publicity alone by convincing investors that iTunes MS was profitable. Apple has no recourse. The only adequate strategy is to forge ahead, because Apple still has the better user experience and taste compared to the cheap copy. Consider that Apple has 50% of the whole MP3 market, but you can't play buymusic.com's WinMedia files on an iPod! You pay more for the privilege of burning, etc...

icruise · Jul 24, 2003, 11:47 PM

Originally posted by AB^2=BCxAC:
If they can manage to put out a cheap Asteroid movie before the one that was slated first, the audiences lose interest in the good one before it even comes out, and the competition wins by just making people avoid a film, let alone drawing people to other movies.

I don't remember which was first, but I hope you're not implying that Armageddon was the good Asteroid movie?

MacGorilla · Jul 25, 2003, 07:58 AM

Originally posted by Icruise:
I don't remember which was first, but I hope you're not implying that Armageddon was the good Asteroid movie?

Deep Impact was first. Great flick. Armageddon was....well....(barf!)

haunebu · Jul 25, 2003, 08:01 AM

Parody is of course protected under the First Amendment. But since these guys are competing directly with Apple in the online music business, and consumers could get confused, they definitely could have a case.

I think people pretty much universally think the campaign is in bad tase - it's just a cheesy rip-off of the Apple campaign.

But we'll see if Apple takes action or not. I wouldn't mind watching BuyMusic.com feel the wrath of Apple Legal.

starman · Jul 25, 2003, 08:11 AM

No, this is not a parody. This is pure stealing. Ironic, isn't it? It's what the music store is trying to keep people from doing - stealing.

Mike

MacGorilla · Jul 25, 2003, 08:19 AM

Where one see these infamous ads?

Logic · Jul 25, 2003, 08:49 AM

Originally posted by MacGorilla:
Where one see these infamous ads?

buymusic.com?

GORDYmac · 08:58 AM

This is too close. I haven't seen the ads, but if the commercials are that close, Apple may have something. I'm sure they're looking in to it, regardless of whether any action will be taken.

[Edit] Thanks for the link. The ads are just a RIP!!! I'd be mad if Apple didn't do something.

Just to show what kind of grounds Apple might have, Chick-fil-A sued Burger King because they made a cartoon ad featuring chickens and a whole "eat more beef" thing. I didn't even see a connection to Chick-fil-A's campaign, but they won the suit. The case at hand is just blatant. They even have one person doing 'Rapper's Delight'. Oh, come on...

icruise · Jul 25, 2003, 09:37 AM

The Apple ads weren't even very good, and Buy.com has to copy them? Pathetic.

cacarr1 · Jul 25, 2003, 09:59 AM

What's that Picasso quote Jobs like to say...something like "Good artists create, Great artist steal".
Soemthing like that.

But I do hope buymusic fails when iTunes for Windows comes out...which I think alot of people will appreciate the iTunes experience much more than buymusic.

JLFanboy · Jul 25, 2003, 10:29 AM

The Apple ads weren't even very good, and Buy.com has to copy them? Pathetic.

That's the same thing I said.

cpt kangarooski · Jul 25, 2003, 10:37 AM

BasketofPuppies--

2. from consumers (a class action lawsuit) because it appears that the people in the ad are holding iPods, which WMA, the file format BuyMusic.com uses, doesn't work on.

AFAICT those are Creative Nomad Zen players, not iPods.

keekeeree · Jul 25, 2003, 10:57 AM

Originally posted by MacGorilla:
Deep Impact was first. Great flick. Armageddon was....well....(barf!)

Deep Impact was great?

It was okay, but Armageddon was definitely the better of the two (the other competition that summer was Godzilla...remember the scene in Armageddon when that little dog attacks the toy Godzillas? I always thought that was a great jab

)

But back on topic, when I saw the BuyMusic.com ad, the first thing I thought was, "Huh, Apple got some more people to dance and sing in front of a white background while they kill their favorite songs." Then the voice-over started and I realized it wasn't an Apple ad at all. Didn't really piss me off, but I had to chuckle at how everytime Apple does something, the PC world follows right in their footsteps. Could they sue? I'm guessing yes. Should they? Probably not, as somebody already mentioned, all it would do would bring unwarranted attention to BuyMusic.com.

JLFanboy · Jul 25, 2003, 11:14 AM

AFAICT those are Creative Nomad Zen players, not iPods.

That's the point. They aren't iPods, but a lot of people are going to think they are, buy an iPod and a ton of music from BuyMusic, and get a surprise when they find out WMA won't play on an iPod.

Regardless, I think a class action lawsuit is probably one of the weakest possibilities.

ambush · Jul 25, 2003, 11:29 AM

Have you guys noticed the ad where Tomy Lee smashes a guitar?!

THAT'S APPLE'S GUITAR! WTF?

Only hardcore mac users would notice the point of this ad, so WHY AIR IT ON TV? IT MAKES NO SENSE!!!!!

http://www.co2studios.com/buymusic/

see them there.

Also, the other two ads are so lame. They're just cheaper versions of Apple's! WTF again?

so lame. competitors *should* stop always taking the "we're a copycat, but hey! we're PC-Compatible and cheaper!"

RAzaRazor · 11:47 AM

Those ads piss me off every time I see them. They are done so poorly that it makes me cringe just thinking about them.

Why on earth did they get this HUGE fat woman to be in the ad? It's disgusting watching her jowls flapping, and her belly rolling around under that too small shirt.

I really think Apple should sue and get an injunction as quickly as possible just to save us from that woman's FAT ASS!

The other issue is that the ads do create brand confusion. There are a lot of people who saw the Apple ads for iTMS. now they are seeing these very similar ads except now the name is different. Most people are too slow to really notice the difference. So what BuyMusic has done is steal the momentum created by the months of Apple ads and direct it towards their own business.

Apple does have solid grounds for a case.

bigsman · Jul 25, 2003, 11:43 AM

i think they should....after all the tommy lee ad takes the biscuit

DigitalEl · Jul 25, 2003, 12:10 PM

I just saw the ad. My impression is that it's poking fun at Apple, which is not grounds for a lawsuit. I would suggest getting over it.

Best. Post. Ever!

I love our platform and support Apple when possible and practical... But the Buy.com ads are IMO better than Apple's. The people are more engaging. Even the fat woman... She gets your attention. That's the point of an ad.

With the exception of a couple of them, the Apple people were stereotypical computer geek-types. The Buy.com people seem more real.

As for the guitar, it made me laugh. I know they're poking fun of something I love, but have a sense of humor. Aggressive marketing is fun to watch. It's either those spots or another toothpaste commercial!

Stradlater · Jul 25, 2003, 12:45 PM

Originally posted by DigitalEl:
[B]... But the Buy.com ads are IMO better than Apple's. The people are more engaging. Even the fat woman... She gets your attention. That's the point of an ad.

I have to agree, I thought that for ads that were so similar, these guys did a much better job than apple did.

Stradlater · Jul 25, 2003, 12:49 PM

it looks like Tommy Lee breaks the guitar that just had a photo shoot here:

http://www.apple.com/music/

icruise · Jul 25, 2003, 12:58 PM

They may well have been intended as parodies of Apple's ads, but for it to be a parody I think they would have to be more obviously over the top. I mean, Apple's ads weren't exactly dead-serious. How do you parody something that is already tongue in cheek?

SomeToast · Jul 25, 2003, 01:08 PM

Originally posted by DigitalEl:
With the exception of a couple of them, the Apple people were stereotypical computer geek-types. The Buy.com people seem more real.

See, that's funny -- I thought the exact opposite (I'm talking about the music ads, not the Switch ads here).

The people in the Apple ads seemed like people off the street, passionate about their music. The ones singing "Ben" and "My Generation" in particular.

The people in the BuyMusic.com ads, on the other hand, feel like they're straight out of Central Casting ("Hi, I'm Jewish Stereotype #3 and I'm happy to be working with you today"). It's why the ads feel like parody, they're all just actors mugging it up for the camera.

"The Daily Show" ran Apple's G5 ad and Buy's "Rapper's Delight" ad the other night (they've run Apple's music ads in the past, too). Felt surreal.

zigzag · Jul 25, 2003, 02:01 PM

I just watched all 3 ads (thanks for the link ambush) and I would say that the two that resemble Apple's ads straddle the line between rip-offs and parodies. I'm sure buy.com's lawyers reviewed them carefully to make sure they were on the safe side of the line, but I can see some potential for confusion. The problem is that since ITMS doesn't serve PCs, there's not much harm done (thus the "Downloads for PCs/for the rest of us" tag lines). If I were Apple, though, I'd probably let them be - the more attention they generate, the better. They imply that Apple is the leader, a good thing. The best thing that could happen to Apple would be for Intel to start running ads against Apple.

The guitar-smashing one is clearly aimed at Apple, although only hard-core Apple geeks would notice the connection. It might be a shot across the bow, but it's not a rip-off, so there's no lawsuit there.

Sarc · Jul 25, 2003, 02:53 PM

I think that in the end Apple will make the parody out of BuyMusic.com.
Just wait till that crap goes out of business.

Steve's Keynote:
Well we had some competition, anyone remember BuyMusic ? <Audience laughs>, well I'm happy to report that the iTMS has sold it's 100,000,000'th song !

Zmai · Jul 25, 2003, 02:54 PM

I imagine that Apple might have some legal recourse with the advertising, but the rest of it seems pretty fair to me. May the best lawyers win, I guess.

.z

djjava · Jul 25, 2003, 03:24 PM

CEASE AND DESIST THAT FAT WOMAN!!!!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Superchicken · Jul 26, 2003, 03:35 AM

haha I think they figured Apple's legal team wouldn't see since the version of Media player for OS X is crap hahaha

But I'd love to see Apple sue em just so they can't advertise any more or need different adds. They are essentially stealing a concept that is only done by Apple and the GAP hahaha

Plaides · Jul 27, 2003, 02:40 AM

I think that is an easy question; no. Apple doesn't have the time/money to pay through a law suit. Sure they took the Apple idea, but who cares, people will stil ease into Apple's plan. I think it is a lost cause for Apple to sue buymusic.com anyway... those d0uche bags.

Buckaroo · Jul 28, 2003, 03:15 AM

When I first read this post I had only seen the ad where the fat lady dances.

Tonight I saw buymusic.com's ad with the guy that destroy's Apple's Guitar. You know the one that is on the billboards. For those that haven't seen it yet, they show a scene where the photographers finish a photo shoot with a guitar on a little tripod. After their finished, some guy comes in and grabs the guitar and destroys it.

Azzgunther · Jul 28, 2003, 03:52 AM

The thing is that Buymusic.com's service isn't any different from the past failures. The reason Apple's doing so well is that they have a limitied amount of restriction placed on the files you purchase and users can do with them (basically) as they like.

It's entirely possible that this will be good for Apple in that Buymusic.com's ads will act as advertisements for purchasing downloaded music in general instead of acting as advertisements for Buymusic.com. When Apple comes out with ITMS for Windows there will be that many more people aware of the capabilities of this new form of media-transporting thanks to these adds.

Basically, it give Apple a change to cater to an even larger audience.

SeSawaya · Jul 28, 2003, 08:48 AM

Just saw the Tommy Lee add last night too.

Let me first sasy that anything that such a hack drummer like Tommy Lee endorses, I'm certainly not jumping behind, It, like him dosent even make any sense.

2nd, its such a bad comercial. Apple adds usually suck, but this one is horrid. I bet they used iMovie on it.

3rd, as soon as Apple makes iTunes for PC, people using this software will certinaly jump ship. I mean, have you seen thier site?? Dear Lord, I could design that!!!!!

Apple just needs to get in gear a little faster.