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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > iPhone, iPad & iPod > iPad 2: What it Should Be

iPad 2: What it Should Be (Page 2)
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freudling  (op)
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Nov 28, 2010, 08:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
That makes very little sense to me.
Man, how many of you are on here? Do you have any idea what is going on in the mobile marketplace right now? The competition is staggering. It's like almost outright singularity, but there's not total parity... seems to be climbing up that way though.

There are a ton of phones on the market now with absolutely amazing screens. The Samsung Galaxy S is one of them. The LG Optimus 7 is also very, very good. That's the reality. They do make the iPad's screen look outdated. It's washed out and pixelated in comparison. Do yourself a favor and, well... why don't I just keep this in the Apple family... hold your iPad up to an iPhone 4. Call up a book on each... look at the web. There's a huge difference. Do the same with a Galaxy S, or LG Optimus, or even a Galaxy Tab in comparison to the iPad.

Screen quality is now so important because mobile devices are made and broken by them. The better the screen the more it's going to stand out and resonate with consumers. So what we're saying is Apple will have to offer a better screen on the iPad to compete.

And if you really are an Apple fan, might I remind you of Steve hyping up the Retina display, saying once you go retina, you'll never go back...

The reality is, what is Apple going to come out with next year to keep up with the competition? If they don't do something, they will absolutely lose sales to competitors.

What I find really fascinating about the tablet market is that it is a sign of our times. Look how fast the competition has come to market after the iPad launch. We're talking months now. Companies like Apple may, moving forward, not be so dominant anymore because of how fast the world changes now. How fast actually competitive products make their way to the market.
     
imitchellg5
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Nov 28, 2010, 08:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
That makes very little sense to me.
What do you mean? If you hold the iPhone 4 and iPad next to each other, the iPhone 4's screen simply blows it away with IPS and excellent pixel density. If you have an iPad and have never used an iPhone 4, you'd never think the iPad screen is bad.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Nov 28, 2010, 08:54 PM
 
True, but that hardly discredits the iPad against its would-be competitors.
     
imitchellg5
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Nov 28, 2010, 08:58 PM
 
Yes, but this discussion is specifically about how the iPad 2 will need to improve to continue to hold its spot at the top of tablet sales. It's only a matter of time until Samsung sells an AMOLED Tab (they've already shown one off).
     
Spheric Harlot
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Nov 28, 2010, 09:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
The reality is, what is Apple going to come out with next year to keep up with the competition? If they don't do something, they will absolutely lose sales to competitors.
Maybe, and maybe the competitors will primarily gobble up sales that wouldn't have gone to Apple anyway.

Apple's in a bit of a bind: Their biggest strength is the software - the OS as a foundation, and the HUGE app market that follows. This, however, is a DIRECT result of the extremely limited hardware choices, as it makes virtually any application write and test once - play anywhere (twice, actually, as the iPad and iPhone have different screen sizes and need completely different interfaces).

The retina display only works because it's exactly twice the dpi. There is literally ZERO effort required for an app to continue working and looking exactly the same it did on older devices - full compatibility with EVERYTHING on the market is ensured from the start.

The only way they could get retina resolution onto the iPad would, likewise, be by doubling the dpi to 2048 x 1536. I'm sure that's quite cost-prohibitive at the moment.

So I'm guessing we'll be stuck with the iPad's current resolution for at least another revision.
     
freudling  (op)
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Nov 28, 2010, 09:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
Maybe, and maybe the competitors will primarily gobble up sales that wouldn't have gone to Apple anyway.

Apple's in a bit of a bind: Their biggest strength is the software - the OS as a foundation, and the HUGE app market that follows. This, however, is a DIRECT result of the extremely limited hardware choices, as it makes virtually any application write and test once - play anywhere (twice, actually, as the iPad and iPhone have different screen sizes and need completely different interfaces).

The retina display only works because it's exactly twice the dpi. There is literally ZERO effort required for an app to continue working and looking exactly the same it did on older devices - full compatibility with EVERYTHING on the market is ensured from the start.

The only way they could get retina resolution onto the iPad would, likewise, be by doubling the dpi to 2048 x 1536. I'm sure that's quite cost-prohibitive at the moment.

So I'm guessing we'll be stuck with the iPad's current resolution for at least another revision.
I don't think they'll have to double the screen resolution. At any rate, the iPad screen is discredited already because the Tab has a much higher pixel density. The screen is noticeably better: sharper and richer. There are two very important things about higher pixel density on a tablet screen. 1. It's about keeping with the current competition, and offering equally compelling, bright, rich screens. 2. By offering more pixel density, the form factor... can be reduced in size because you gain screen real estate with higher pixel density. It's probably the most important design/engineering aspect of tablets that companies will have to flesh out right now.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Nov 28, 2010, 09:31 PM
 
The Tab, however, has no software optimized for it, and above all, it will NEVER HAVE ANY software optimized for it, unless its exact screen resolution is adopted for a large number of other devices.

The higher pixel density doesn't actually MEAN anything except a bullet point on a placard - in fact, if most everything you can get to run on the device needs to be scaled up by some fraction, then the higher pixel density guarantees that your screen looks WORSE than it would otherwise.

Until then, every application developer will have to hard-code an interface SPECIFICALLY FOR THAT ONE DEVICE or resign to having it look like shit.
     
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Nov 28, 2010, 09:32 PM
 
We've gone over the Tab's issue in depth in another thread.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Nov 28, 2010, 09:36 PM
 
Yes, we have. But the point apparently failed to go over.

Here, specifically, the Tab's higher resolution is touted as an advantage that the iPad must match.

I'm turning it around, as currently, it's a DISadvantage that the iPad must AVOID until fully doubled resolution can actually be built at an affordable price point.
     
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Nov 28, 2010, 09:40 PM
 
Screen resolution baffles most "ordinary" people. The 17" MacBook Pro is a perfect example.

Customer buys the biggest laptop assuming that it will be the easiest to read. However, because of the high resolution everything on the screen is *smaller*. So what do they do? They decrease the resolution in System Prefs making everything look like crap. But it IS bigger..

Where did resolution independence go?

(Carry on with your iPad fight.)
     
imitchellg5
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Nov 28, 2010, 09:40 PM
 
Well currently there aren't any LCD panels in the 9" range that offer that resolution. 1330 or 1440 wide is possible though.
     
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Nov 28, 2010, 10:16 PM
 
Put a dual core chip with 1GB ram and front facing camera. Hope to see HP's tablet with webOS soon. Should be interesting in about a year when most tablets are on the market. Then we should see the mud slinging against one another. The iPad is ok. Just needs a little more umph. Since the update, seems it's a little sluggish.
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freudling  (op)
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Nov 28, 2010, 10:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
The Tab, however, has no software optimized for it, and above all, it will NEVER HAVE ANY software optimized for it, unless its exact screen resolution is adopted for a large number of other devices.

The higher pixel density doesn't actually MEAN anything except a bullet point on a placard - in fact, if most everything you can get to run on the device needs to be scaled up by some fraction, then the higher pixel density guarantees that your screen looks WORSE than it would otherwise.

Until then, every application developer will have to hard-code an interface SPECIFICALLY FOR THAT ONE DEVICE or resign to having it look like shit.
The Tab, however, has applications specifically designed for it. There are now numerous developers developing for it. The Android marketplace has titles growing by the week. I was just playing Ashphalt 5. Looks and runs great.

Big players are pushing out 7" tablets. It's going to be a boon for developers.
     
imitchellg5
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Nov 28, 2010, 10:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Big players are pushing out 7" tablets. It's going to be a boon for developers.
Who else has? Besides the PlayBook which might as well be vaporware at the moment since BB won't even show photos of it turned on.
     
freudling  (op)
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Nov 28, 2010, 10:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by bearcatrp View Post
Put a dual core chip with 1GB ram and front facing camera. Hope to see HP's tablet with webOS soon. Should be interesting in about a year when most tablets are on the market. Then we should see the mud slinging against one another. The iPad is ok. Just needs a little more umph. Since the update, seems it's a little sluggish.
My iPad is also sluggish after the 4.2 update. There's a thread on Apple's forum about it and lots of Goggle results. For the first time I'm getting the odd keyboard sputter and things seem a bit choppy. Did Apple shoot themselves in the foot with only 256 MB of RAM? From what I understand, that is one of the main culprits with multi-tasking... not enough RAM.
     
freudling  (op)
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Nov 28, 2010, 11:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
Who else has? Besides the PlayBook which might as well be vaporware at the moment since BB won't even show photos of it turned on.
The PlayBook is not vapor. Come on, RIM isn't some mysterious start up.

Anyway, here are the facts, regardless of what you think of these companies...:

PlayBook: 7" running BB
Samsung Galaxy Tab: 7" running Android
Creative ZiiO: 7" running Android
Acer: 7", and 5" and 10" running Android
Archos 7: 7" Linux
Huawei 7: 7" running Android
lots more...

Oh, and there are a lot of videos of the PlayBook in action. Here's the most recent:

http://www.engadget.com/2010/11/16/b...ands-on-video/
( Last edited by freudling; Nov 28, 2010 at 11:59 PM. )
     
mduell
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Nov 29, 2010, 12:18 AM
 
Why the obsession with software optimized for the exact resolution of the device? Does anyone complain that they have to use the same software on their 1280x800, 1680x1050, and 2560x1440 Macs?
     
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Nov 29, 2010, 12:32 AM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
What do you mean? If you hold the iPhone 4 and iPad next to each other, the iPhone 4's screen simply blows it away with IPS and excellent pixel density. If you have an iPad and have never used an iPhone 4, you'd never think the iPad screen is bad.
Yeah, I just don't see it. I'll do you one better. I went to an Apple store last week (the one in Ceaser's Palace in Las Vegas, actually). I took my iPhone 3GS and held it up next to an iPhone 4. You know what I saw? Very little difference. It's nice that the Retina Display shows the image nearly right on top instead of some layers deeper like previous generation iPhones, but as far as image quality superiority I really saw very little difference.
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Man, how many of you are on here?
The vast majority of us.

freudling, you can bet on Samsung and Microsoft for your tablets and cell phones if that's what you like, but you don't have to make up lame criticism of Apple. We'll see where your Zune/Kin/Windows 7 Phone platform is in a year.

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imitchellg5
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Nov 29, 2010, 01:00 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
The PlayBook is not vapor. Come on, RIM isn't some mysterious start up.

Anyway, here are the facts, regardless of what you think of these companies...:

PlayBook: 7" running BB
Samsung Galaxy Tab: 7" running Android
Creative ZiiO: 7" running Android
Acer: 7", and 5" and 10" running Android
Archos 7: 7" Linux
Huawei 7: 7" running Android
lots more...
I forgot Engadget was able to go hands-on. Creative? Acer Tegra? Archos? Huawei? None of those matter outside of their home markets.
     
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Nov 29, 2010, 01:01 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
There are a ton of phones on the market now with absolutely amazing screens. The Samsung Galaxy S is one of them. The LG Optimus 7 is also very, very good. That's the reality. They do make the iPad's screen look outdated. It's washed out and pixelated in comparison.
Would it bother you if I pointed out that the iPad is not a phone?

The quality of the iPad's screen has played an important part to its success. Photographers and all kinds of media professionals have embraced the iPad as an electronic portfolio because it displays pictures so beautifully.

If you see pixelating, then it might be because you are looking at an image of low resolution and/or small pixel dimensions and this on full screen. Also, some apps for the iPad are just blown up apps for the iPhone, and therefore built for a lower resolution screen. This would pixelate on the iPad.

I agree that the iPhone screen is not as good as the screens of other smart phones. I was recommended the HTC smart phone (which runs Android, I think, and has an OLED screen as far as I remember).
     
imitchellg5
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Nov 29, 2010, 01:03 AM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
Yeah, I just don't see it. I'll do you one better. I went to an Apple store last week (the one in Ceaser's Palace in Las Vegas, actually). I took my iPhone 3GS and held it up next to an iPhone 4. You know what I saw? Very little difference. It's nice that the Retina Display shows the image nearly right on top instead of some layers deeper like previous generation iPhones, but as far as image quality superiority I really saw very little difference.
You didn't notice the incredible smoothness of fonts on the iPhone 4 and how you can still read lines even when zoomed all the way out on a web page? I'm sorry but when I hold a pre-Retina Display iPhone and an iPhone 4 side by side I see quite a bit difference, also in the deep blacks of the RD. Try playing Epic Citadel on your 3GS and then the iPhone 4. You'll be amazed.
     
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Nov 29, 2010, 01:04 AM
 
Originally Posted by Veltliner View Post
I agree that the iPhone screen is not as good as the screens of other smart phones. I was recommended the HTC smart phone (which runs Android, I think, and has an OLED screen as far as I remember).
HTC makes 19 smartphones in the US alone with 4 different screen types and 3 different operating systems.
     
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Nov 29, 2010, 01:54 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post

Oh, and there are a lot of videos of the PlayBook in action. Here's the most recent:

BlackBerry PlayBook first hands-on! (video) -- Engadget
Not the greatest video of it in action. This guy shaking allot. Looks like a delay after pressing an icon. Looks very similar to WebOS too. I'll wait until HP brings out their tablet with webOS before I decide which tablet is better. Competition is good to get things moving. Keeps costs down for the consumer. Time will tell who will survive this battle.
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freudling  (op)
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Nov 29, 2010, 02:13 AM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
I forgot Engadget was able to go hands-on. Creative? Acer Tegra? Archos? Huawei? None of those matter outside of their home markets.
Lol. What other dogmatic, pugnacious stuff can you come up with next? All I do is post facts and all you do is wave your hands.
( Last edited by freudling; Nov 29, 2010 at 02:21 AM. )
     
freudling  (op)
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Nov 29, 2010, 02:15 AM
 
Originally Posted by bearcatrp View Post
Not the greatest video of it in action. This guy shaking allot. Looks like a delay after pressing an icon. Looks very similar to WebOS too. I'll wait until HP brings out their tablet with webOS before I decide which tablet is better. Competition is good to get things moving. Keeps costs down for the consumer. Time will tell who will survive this battle.
"This guy" holding it is the CEO of RIM, Jim Basille. If you feel like stepping over to youtube, you'll find other videos.
     
freudling  (op)
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Nov 29, 2010, 02:19 AM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
Yeah, I just don't see it. I'll do you one better. I went to an Apple store last week (the one in Ceaser's Palace in Las Vegas, actually). I took my iPhone 3GS and held it up next to an iPhone 4. You know what I saw? Very little difference. It's nice that the Retina Display shows the image nearly right on top instead of some layers deeper like previous generation iPhones, but as far as image quality superiority I really saw very little difference.

The vast majority of us.

freudling, you can bet on Samsung and Microsoft for your tablets and cell phones if that's what you like, but you don't have to make up lame criticism of Apple. We'll see where your Zune/Kin/Windows 7 Phone platform is in a year.
That's cool. Doesn't mean other people don't notice a difference. In fact, people right here are telling you they notice a difference. "Once you go Retina, you'll never go back", Steve Jobs at iPhone 4 launch paraphrased.

Maybe time to check out an Optomitrist?
     
freudling  (op)
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Nov 29, 2010, 02:31 AM
 
Originally Posted by Veltliner View Post
Would it bother you if I pointed out that the iPad is not a phone?

The quality of the iPad's screen has played an important part to its success. Photographers and all kinds of media professionals have embraced the iPad as an electronic portfolio because it displays pictures so beautifully.
Or it's successful because it's been, up until recently, the only viable tablet on the market. Screen's just ok, nothing great.

Originally Posted by Veltliner View Post
If you see pixelating, then it might be because you are looking at an image of low resolution and/or small pixel dimensions and this on full screen. Also, some apps for the iPad are just blown up apps for the iPhone, and therefore built for a lower resolution screen. This would pixelate on the iPad.
No, man, no. You can simply just see pixels because the pixel density is just not high enough... made worse by washed out colors. There are articles out there on this topic.

Next to the iPhone 4 and Tab, it pales. It's not bad mind you. But with much better screens on the market, it's just not that great.
     
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Nov 29, 2010, 04:15 AM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
What do you mean? If you hold the iPhone 4 and iPad next to each other, the iPhone 4's screen simply blows it away with IPS and excellent pixel density.
The iPad also has an IPS panel.
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
Yeah, I just don't see it. I'll do you one better. I went to an Apple store last week (the one in Ceaser's Palace in Las Vegas, actually). I took my iPhone 3GS and held it up next to an iPhone 4. You know what I saw? Very little difference. It's nice that the Retina Display shows the image nearly right on top instead of some layers deeper like previous generation iPhones, but as far as image quality superiority I really saw very little difference.
I have a Retina display on my iPod touch and you can really tell the difference with text, it's just so comfortable to read and it really looks as if it is printed text. I would never want to go back to a normal resolution display on an iPod/smartphone.

Now, there are no tablets with a retina display. The Tab has a resolution of ~170 ppi which is about half of the 326 ppi of an iPhone 4/iPod touch and pretty much what all other 3.x" smartphones have had -- it's not high-res, but better than the iPad with ~130 ppi. I would prefer a high-res display on a tablet if I ever got one, but right now, it'll be difficult to do that with the current crop of mobile cpus and gpus. Getting ~300 dpi on an iPad means cranking up the resolution to 2328x1746 pixel^2 which is roughly 4 MP, the resolution of the 27" and 30" Cinema Displays.
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freudling  (op)
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Nov 29, 2010, 04:29 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
The iPad also has an IPS panel.

I have a Retina display on my iPod touch and you can really tell the difference with text, it's just so comfortable to read and it really looks as if it is printed text. I would never want to go back to a normal resolution display on an iPod/smartphone.

Now, there are no tablets with a retina display. The Tab has a resolution of ~170 ppi which is about half of the 326 ppi of an iPhone 4/iPod touch and pretty much what all other 3.x" smartphones have had -- it's not high-res, but better than the iPad with ~130 ppi. I would prefer a high-res display on a tablet if I ever got one, but right now, it'll be difficult to do that with the current crop of mobile cpus and gpus. Getting ~300 dpi on an iPad means cranking up the resolution to 2328x1746 pixel^2 which is roughly 4 MP, the resolution of the 27" and 30" Cinema Displays.
Aside from just swallowing Apple's marketing term... For the 76th time, nobody is saying that Apple has to put a Retina Display on the iPad. They just need to increase the pixel density to compete moving forward.

Does that make enough sense?
     
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Nov 29, 2010, 04:36 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
The Tab, however, has applications specifically designed for it. There are now numerous developers developing for it. The Android marketplace has titles growing by the week. I was just playing Ashphalt 5. Looks and runs great.
We'll see how that pans out, because, once again, you're missing the point:
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Big players are pushing out 7" tablets. It's going to be a boon for developers.
It's not about the size, it's about the RESOLUTION.

Unless those big players are pushing out 7" tablets with the exact same resolution as the Tab, they're completely irrelevant to the Tab, as scaling to anything but a screen's native resolution (or .5^n thereof) looks like complete ass.

IOW, if none of the other 7" tablets have the exact same resolution, the Tab is in a class of its own and requires specific dedicated versions of ALL applications.

Coupled with a completely murky software upgrade path, that means it's dead in six months unless it sells stupid amounts (which I doubt).
     
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Nov 29, 2010, 04:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by mduell View Post
Why the obsession with software optimized for the exact resolution of the device? Does anyone complain that they have to use the same software on their 1280x800, 1680x1050, and 2560x1440 Macs?
so far, apps on Android don't resize for different resolutions; they SCALE.

If that were the case on Macs, I can guarantee that an awful lot of people would never consider one.
     
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Nov 29, 2010, 04:44 AM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
Yeah, I just don't see it. I'll do you one better. I went to an Apple store last week (the one in Ceaser's Palace in Las Vegas, actually). I took my iPhone 3GS and held it up next to an iPhone 4. You know what I saw? Very little difference. It's nice that the Retina Display shows the image nearly right on top instead of some layers deeper like previous generation iPhones, but as far as image quality superiority I really saw very little difference.
Woah.

This is amazing to me.

I don't own an iPhone 4, but just playing with others' occasionally has all but ruined my 3GS for me - it's still by far the best phone I've ever owned, but the screen - especially when reading - is starting to really get on my nerves, now that I've seen what's possible.
     
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Nov 29, 2010, 04:49 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Aside from just swallowing Apple's marketing term... For the 76th time, nobody is saying that Apple has to put a Retina Display on the iPad. They just need to increase the pixel density to compete moving forward.

Does that make enough sense?
That makes complete sense.

But in order to maintain full compatibility with existing apps, they need to increase by a factor of 2. I'd love to see them do that, but I suspect it will be silly expensive for the next year or so.

Maybe they'll do the iPod touch 2G/3G thing - keep the current iPad as an entry-level version (at say $399 for the Wi-Fi-only version) and put double-resolution screens into the 32 and 64 GB versions (at $699/$799 for the Wi-Fi-only version).
     
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Nov 29, 2010, 05:04 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Aside from just swallowing Apple's marketing term... For the 76th time, nobody is saying that Apple has to put a Retina Display on the iPad.
That's disappointing, because I want a ~300 ppi display on a tablet

BTW, I don't care what it's called, other smartphone companies have adopted high-res displays as well -- which is a good thingâ„¢.
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Nov 29, 2010, 05:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
We'll see how that pans out, because, once again, you're missing the point:

It's not about the size, it's about the RESOLUTION.

Unless those big players are pushing out 7" tablets with the exact same resolution as the Tab, they're completely irrelevant to the Tab, as scaling to anything but a screen's native resolution (or .5^n thereof) looks like complete ass.

IOW, if none of the other 7" tablets have the exact same resolution, the Tab is in a class of its own and requires specific dedicated versions of ALL applications.

Coupled with a completely murky software upgrade path, that means it's dead in six months unless it sells stupid amounts (which I doubt).
There's reality and then there's internet forum dogma.

FACT: Windows is on a zillion different computers with varying screen resolutions. It's got some 85% marketshare globally.

FACT: Android is on a zillion different smartphones and it's got 25% worldwide smartphone OS marketshare, over Apple's 17%.

You can keep saying fragmentation and paraphrasing Jobs about how bad it will be developing for zillions of devices.

It's not making Android unsuccessful. The market speaks.

FACT: over 700,000 GTs sold in first month.

Nobody cares Spheric.
     
ajprice
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Nov 29, 2010, 05:41 AM
 
The screen update for the iPhone was 480x320 upto 960x640, doubling the resolution so that earlier software would still run full screen but pixel doubled. iPad resolution is 1024x768, if they update the iPad screen with the same reasoning it would have to be 2048x1536, on a 10" screen, higher resolution than a 17" MBP but it still wouldn't have the pixel density of the iPhone 4 'Retina Display'. If they change the screen they might just change the panel or touchscreen technology.

As for the rest... cameras, more memory, more storage, lighter, SD card slot. Hopefully there can be a lot of crossover now between iPad and MBA.

It'll be much easier if you just comply.
     
Veltliner
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Nov 29, 2010, 06:59 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Or it's successful because it's been, up until recently, the only viable tablet on the market. Screen's just ok, nothing great.



No, man, no. You can simply just see pixels because the pixel density is just not high enough... made worse by washed out colors. There are articles out there on this topic.

Next to the iPhone 4 and Tab, it pales. It's not bad mind you. But with much better screens on the market, it's just not that great.
You can find articles on any topic. Even about the devil ruling the Vatican.

I find it astonishing that you want to define what a good display is just by referring to your own opinon.

You simply do not read, nor consider other people's statements. You have your set opinions, e.g. that the iPad screen is shitty, and that's it. As opinions are volatile, they can be upheld against any argument as long as you don't quote the argument.

PS: iPads are also being used to present portfolios to advertising agencies. Nobody would do that if the displays were of a quality you think they are. Again: people who are working with images professionally use the iPad as a portfolio review device. That's a fact.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Nov 29, 2010, 09:53 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
There's reality and then there's internet forum dogma.

FACT: Windows is on a zillion different computers with varying screen resolutions. It's got some 85% marketshare globally.
It's kind of pointless arguing with anybody who doesn't even read what others write.

I mentioned the difference between scaling and resizing above.

If Android had resizable interfaces or resolution-independent scaling (which would mean that all in-app graphics are vectorized and not bit-mapped), you'd have a point.

AT PRESENT, it doesn't, and you don't.

Fact.

Originally Posted by freudling View Post
FACT: Android is on a zillion different smartphones and it's got 25% worldwide smartphone OS marketshare, over Apple's 17%.

You can keep saying fragmentation and paraphrasing Jobs about how bad it will be developing for zillions of devices.

It's not making Android unsuccessful. The market speaks.
The fact that you're throwing everything in one pot and refusing to acknowledge that Android isn't ONE platform, but dozens of platforms with different hardware specs, different stores, different lockdowns, and different interfaces.

It's not hurting sales - yet -, but it's hurting developers:
Angry Birds ruffled over Android fragmentation | ZDNet
Rovio - Blog

And it's starting to annoy consumers:
Editing your Google Docs on the go - Official Google Docs Blog
(Read the comments)

Originally Posted by freudling View Post
FACT: over 700,000 GTs sold in first month.
Yes, that bodes well for the device, true.

If it holds its promise - the way the iPhone does.

Of course, the vast majority of those phones aren't being sold as "Android" phones - there's not so much as a mention of the word anywhere.
     
imitchellg5
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Nov 29, 2010, 10:22 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Lol. What other dogmatic, pugnacious stuff can you come up with next? All I do is post facts and all you do is wave your hands.
Have they put out one advertisement for their products? Can you buy them in your town's electronics store? If I were to ask my mom or dad about Acer, Archos, or Huawei would they even know what I'm taking about? I'm sorry but there is absolutely no way that those brands will ever stand a chance in the market as-is.

I feel like you're just trolling now, Spheric's argument is much more solid than yours.
     
freudling  (op)
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Nov 29, 2010, 12:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by Veltliner View Post
You can find articles on any topic. Even about the devil ruling the Vatican.

I find it astonishing that you want to define what a good display is just by referring to your own opinon.

You simply do not read, nor consider other people's statements. You have your set opinions, e.g. that the iPad screen is shitty, and that's it. As opinions are volatile, they can be upheld against any argument as long as you don't quote the argument.

PS: iPads are also being used to present portfolios to advertising agencies. Nobody would do that if the displays were of a quality you think they are. Again: people who are working with images professionally use the iPad as a portfolio review device. That's a fact.
We are having a discussion about the iPad in relation to the competition. You've heard of grading on a curve? Well that's what we're doing here. There are other better screens and we're saying Apple will need to improve the iPad's screen. That's all.

Nobody is saying the iPad is unuseable because it's screen is so bad. It's just that Apple is going to have to compete or people might turn to devices like the Tab instead, which itself has a higher pixel density.
     
freudling  (op)
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Nov 29, 2010, 12:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
It's kind of pointless arguing with anybody who doesn't even read what others write.

I mentioned the difference between scaling and resizing above.

If Android had resizable interfaces or resolution-independent scaling (which would mean that all in-app graphics are vectorized and not bit-mapped), you'd have a point.

AT PRESENT, it doesn't, and you don't.

Fact.


The fact that you're throwing everything in one pot and refusing to acknowledge that Android isn't ONE platform, but dozens of platforms with different hardware specs, different stores, different lockdowns, and different interfaces.

It's not hurting sales - yet -, but it's hurting developers:
Angry Birds ruffled over Android fragmentation | ZDNet
Rovio - Blog

And it's starting to annoy consumers:
Editing your Google Docs on the go - Official Google Docs Blog
(Read the comments)


Yes, that bodes well for the device, true.

If it holds its promise - the way the iPhone does.

Of course, the vast majority of those phones aren't being sold as "Android" phones - there's not so much as a mention of the word anywhere.
It's the age old problem. License your OS and get lots of marketshare compared to not licensing it like Apple and only stay on a couple devices. We all know the positives and negatives of both.

FACT: Android marketshare is continuing to grow. It's here to stay. But so is iOS. Choice is good.
     
freudling  (op)
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Nov 29, 2010, 12:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
Have they put out one advertisement for their products? Can you buy them in your town's electronics store? If I were to ask my mom or dad about Acer, Archos, or Huawei would they even know what I'm taking about? I'm sorry but there is absolutely no way that those brands will ever stand a chance in the market as-is.

I feel like you're just trolling now, Spheric's argument is much more solid than yours.
I feel like you're just trolling.

You're hilarious. I cite some of the biggest names in the computer industry and you twist it into your own dogmatic insanity.

Archos: get it at FutureShop or Best Buy, others
Acer: hitting store shelves in the next week. Office Depot, Radio Shack, Walmart...
Huawei: Get it at Best Buy, others

Nice try though. What else you got?
     
OreoCookie
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Nov 29, 2010, 01:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Archos: get it at FutureShop or Best Buy, others
Acer: hitting store shelves in the next week. Office Depot, Radio Shack, Walmart...
Huawei: Get it at Best Buy, others
imitchellg5 was talking about brand recognition and not availability. Of those brands, Acer is the best-known. If you're a bit of a geek and you remember the beginning of the mp3 player revolution, you probably also know Archos. If you're my proverbial sister, she won't know the name. Even less people know Huawei.
( Last edited by OreoCookie; Nov 29, 2010 at 01:35 PM. )
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
imitchellg5
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Nov 29, 2010, 01:23 PM
 
Yes, Oreo has it exactly right.

Sorry freudling, when you consider that these products have been out for a few months now and Google's usage chart of Android on large devices doesn't even show up in the overall chart (less than 1%), I don't think they are making a hill of beans worth of difference.
     
freudling  (op)
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Nov 29, 2010, 01:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
Can you buy them in your town's electronics store?
lol.
     
imitchellg5
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Nov 29, 2010, 01:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
lol.
Thanks for the intelligent reply. Glad to be taken seriously
     
freudling  (op)
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Nov 29, 2010, 01:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
imitchellg5 was talking about brand recognition and not availability. Of those brands, Acer is the best-known. If you're a bit of a geek and you remember the beginning of the mp3 player revolution, you probably also know Archos. If you're my proverbial sister, she won't know the name. Even less people know Huawei.
People asked if they were available in stores. I answered yes, they are. And yes, they have advertisements that's just a silly question.

They are available in many of the biggest retail chains we know. Period. Speculation is another issue. Nobody knows how successful they will be, but it's a FACT that they are on store shelves, and they are 7". Period.
     
imitchellg5
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Nov 29, 2010, 01:54 PM
 
Okay, I'm going out to see if I can actually find the Archos and Huawei.
     
freudling  (op)
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Nov 29, 2010, 02:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
Okay, I'm going out to see if I can actually find the Archos and Huawei.
You do that Mitchy. Make sure to grab one of those hot dogs out front of Best Buy, and can you pick me up some milk on your way back?
     
The Final Dakar
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Nov 29, 2010, 02:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Let me say that I'm not trolling. I'm not trying to elicit any reaction whatever. I'm posting facts and researched responses.
...
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
You do that Mitchy. Make sure to grab one of those hot dogs out front of Best Buy, and can you pick me up some milk on your way back?
     
 
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