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Jobs is Officially Gone, Apple Slooowws (Page 3)
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nonhuman
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Jun 13, 2012, 07:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
How could you say that the color and call button are similar... which in fact they're very similar... and then say they're not alike at all. The color scheme is a huge factor in what defines the design.
Because the only significant change made to the iOS dialer's appearance was to make the buttons white. Your argument would appear to be that because one particular Android dialer out of many used white buttons, if anyone else ever happens to use white buttons for a phone dialer that makes their entire design a complete rip-off. Which is, to be brief, utter crap.
     
OreoCookie
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Jun 13, 2012, 07:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
"It's as kosher as a Big Mac!"
There are kosher Big Macs. Oh, I meant to link to this! Yum!
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
subego
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Jun 13, 2012, 07:30 PM
 
Wait... Now I remember. It was cheeseburger.

"As kosher as a cheeseburger"
     
Wiskedjak
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Jun 13, 2012, 09:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Show the dates of when these were implemented, and on what products specifically. Here's a hint: try wayback machine for Netflix...

Come back when you've figured it out.
So? All you're saying with that argument is that Apple copied the Netflix UI even when Steve Jobs was still around and prove with your own words that there is nothing different at Apple with Steve Jobs gone.
     
freudling  (op)
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Jun 14, 2012, 12:12 AM
 
Originally Posted by nonhuman View Post
Because the only significant change made to the iOS dialer's appearance was to make the buttons white. Your argument would appear to be that because one particular Android dialer out of many used white buttons, if anyone else ever happens to use white buttons for a phone dialer that makes their entire design a complete rip-off. Which is, to be brief, utter crap.
No, wrong.

The buttons changed to white, yes. BUT, in addition, the number background color is Android blue and the numbers are white.

Shut up already freudling, you son of a bitch!
     
nonhuman
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Jun 14, 2012, 12:53 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
No, wrong.

The buttons changed to white, yes. BUT, in addition, the number background color is Android blue and the numbers are white.

Shut up already freudling, you son of a bitch!
The numbers were white before, and the background color was blue. They changed the shade of blue, true, but had they not done so it would have been too high a contrast with the lighter colored buttons and looked ridiculous. The only significant change was to the button color.
     
freudling  (op)
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Jun 14, 2012, 01:02 AM
 
Originally Posted by nonhuman View Post
The numbers were white before, and the background color was blue. They changed the shade of blue, true, but had they not done so it would have been too high a contrast with the lighter colored buttons and looked ridiculous. The only significant change was to the button color.
They changed the number background color. This is fact.

Screw you freudling.
     
Wiskedjak
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Jun 14, 2012, 01:22 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
They changed the number background color. This is fact.

Screw you freudling.
So? It's also a fact that they changed the Maps icon. On the one hand, you're upset that they didn't change much; on the other hand you're upset over the things that they DID change.
     
freudling  (op)
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Jun 14, 2012, 01:27 AM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
So? It's also a fact that they changed the Maps icon. On the one hand, you're upset that they didn't change much; on the other hand you're upset over the things that they DID change.
Well it is freudling after all.
     
freudling  (op)
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Jun 14, 2012, 01:39 AM
 
Hmmm, read the MacBook Pro Retina review on The Verge.

Looks like the thing can really heat up, specially around the U key. I can imagine a few more things cropping up on this. Oh, and, the RAM is soldered on. That means either you upgrade direct from Apple or you're SOL.

For those dying for Retina, there's always the Air 13". It has a higher pixel density compared to the standard MacBook Pros (128 vs. 110). To my eye it's noticeably sharper.
     
ShortcutToMoncton
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Jun 14, 2012, 08:50 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
NShut up already freudling, you son of a bitch!
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Screw you freudling.
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Well it is freudling after all.
There actually is a slightly scary personality disorder vibe going on here, right? It's not just me?
Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid.
     
subego
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Jun 14, 2012, 09:02 AM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
NShut up already
Is this a new boy band? I hope so.
     
Person Man
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Jun 14, 2012, 10:00 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Is this a new boy band? I hope so.
No, it's a new Apple API.

NShut. It builds a little hut.
     
knifecarrier2
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Jun 14, 2012, 10:22 AM
 
As a product designer, I agree. They've slowed. They've minimized their designs to the point that they've basically painted themselves into a corner. Where else can they go with the iPad? Not very far. Same for the MBP. But even with the MBP, nothing really changed. No different use of materials or finishes.... no curved front edge near the trackpad (MORONS!), and the Powermacs look like the G5 that was unveiled in ... what... 2003?! They've stopped innovating, in terms of overall form and aesthetics. Now they're just adding features. Did the iPod Nano NEED a camera? I don't think so. Does the MBP need a retina display? I would say no, I think a better idea would have been a multi-touch screen with a slide in keyboard and trackpad, so it can turn into a tablet when you want.
     
ort888
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Jun 14, 2012, 11:00 AM
 
Slowed from what? I think people forget the pace at which things like this come out. It's been pretty steady through the years.

The refresh pattern is pretty similar. It really hasn't changed much in the last 15 years or so.

The only thing I'll add is that Apple is moving in some directions that interest me (us?) less, which makes it feel like they've slowed, but I don't really think that's the case at all. If anything, they new products are flowing faster now than they ever have.

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Spheric Harlot
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Jun 14, 2012, 12:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by knifecarrier2 View Post
Did the iPod Nano NEED a camera? I don't think so.
Did the iPod nano GET a camera? I don't think so.

Originally Posted by knifecarrier2 View Post
Does the MBP need a retina display? I would say no, I think a better idea would have been a multi-touch screen with a slide in keyboard and trackpad, so it can turn into a tablet when you want.
Oh yeah...the approach that worked so well for Microsoft the ten years they built tablet PCs before the iPad hit the market.

OS X is not a touch-based interface. And it's not going to be, either.

And the MBP "needed" a retina display the same way the iPhone and the iPad "needed" a retina display. They all worked just fine without it. It's just a massively better experience *with* it.

Also, by all accounts, the retina MBP has finally hit a point where people can rescale the entire screen to a comfortable size without the disastrous fuzziness that accompanied doing that on regular displays.
This is HUGE, especially when it hits the iMac line.
For years, people with poor eyesight had to either move in really close to see properly, or scale up, which caused nasty fuzzing that ironically made stuff more difficult to see.
     
turtle777
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Jun 14, 2012, 12:56 PM
 
I was amazed when looking at the retina MBP in teh Apple Store.

I scaled some text in TextEdit down to 4 pt and I was still able to read it. Amazing.

-t
     
subego
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Jun 14, 2012, 02:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by knifecarrier2 View Post
As a product designer... I think a better idea would have been a multi-touch screen with a slide in keyboard and trackpad, so it can turn into a tablet when you want.
     
Phileas
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Jun 14, 2012, 03:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by knifecarrier2 View Post
I think a better idea would have been a multi-touch screen with a slide in keyboard and trackpad, so it can turn into a tablet when you want.


I was reluctant to change from an iPad 2 to the latest model. Until I read a book on an iPad 3. There's just no comparison.
     
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Jun 14, 2012, 04:29 PM
 
Rumor has it, they are bringing him back via hologram technology for the next keynote.
     
knifecarrier2
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Jun 15, 2012, 12:22 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
Did the iPod nano GET a camera? I don't think so.


Oh yeah...the approach that worked so well for Microsoft the ten years they built tablet PCs before the iPad hit the market.

OS X is not a touch-based interface. And it's not going to be, either.

And the MBP "needed" a retina display the same way the iPhone and the iPad "needed" a retina display. They all worked just fine without it. It's just a massively better experience *with* it.

Also, by all accounts, the retina MBP has finally hit a point where people can rescale the entire screen to a comfortable size without the disastrous fuzziness that accompanied doing that on regular displays.
This is HUGE, especially when it hits the iMac line.
For years, people with poor eyesight had to either move in really close to see properly, or scale up, which caused nasty fuzzing that ironically made stuff more difficult to see.
1. Yeah, it did get one. Then they changed form factors and it was gone.

2. Disagree. A resolution that high would require a BEEFY videocard to run at native res, otherwise it'll be scaling/look terrible.

Microsoft tried for YEARS to throw regular windows OS on a tablet form factor, and it SUCKED. However, OSX and iOS are so similar... imagine being able to "swap" between them? Pull out keyboard and fold into laptop? BLAM! OSX! Fold in keyboard, into tablet mode, BLAM! IOS! It'd be rad. I would love it and hold it and squeeze it. Having two damn near identical sized devices both with retina displays, both with batteries, both with processors.... just... ****, combine the two already. THAT is the future. I'll be sure to dig up this topic in a few years when it happens, just so I can say I told you so.
     
freudling  (op)
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Jun 15, 2012, 12:58 AM
 
I do agree that... well... the design of the MacBook Pros. That needs to change. I hate the sharp edges around the main base and front. People have started to complain about this more I see.

I get red marks on my wrists and have even cut myself, as have others, on the front (indent... edges are incredibly sharp). It's not a friendly design at all. It's very hostile.

But Apple never changed it. I looked at the MacBook Pro Retina demo and while I love the screen and lighter/thinner aspect, the design I'm not crazy about.

It actually looks like something you'd see on a Blog as a mock up, but not a solid, unified, 'perfect' design. It looks like they tried, but in the end, they didn't innovate on design at all. But they have every opportunity too.

I don't think Jobs would have let this one out. He would have pushed for a new design aesthetic. It's the perfect opportunity to make the design better.

And now Apple has sort of shot themselves in the foot. You know why? Tell us freudling.

Because while releasing 1 new model to test the waters, they released something that makes the rest of the line up look like shit. And I'm talking about the screen. Everybody is talking about this, how bad the non-Retina MacBook Pros look next to it.

Yes, I know, the non-Retinas are cheaper, but to me Jobs would have said let's go all in, get our volume up and price down. The way it is they make their other stuff look bad and now everyone wants the Retina screen where non-Retina looks like crap. You can imagine the frenzy if they went all in on Retina with the same prices.

I also don't believe that anyone here really knows the constraints on Retina screen manufacturing. If it really is manufacturing challenges, fine. But it doesn't erase the position Apple has put themselves in here: namely, making the rest of their computers look bad.
     
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Jun 15, 2012, 02:44 AM
 
Originally Posted by Phileas View Post
I was reluctant to change from an iPad 2 to the latest model. Until I read a book on an iPad 3. There's just no comparison.
Your usage of the term iPad 3 has been noted.

Your New iPad will cease to function in the next 24 hours.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Jun 15, 2012, 05:51 AM
 
Originally Posted by knifecarrier2 View Post
1. Yeah, it did get one. Then they changed form factors and it was gone.
You're totally right. I'd completely suppressed the memory of that.

Originally Posted by knifecarrier2 View Post
2. Disagree. A resolution that high would require a BEEFY videocard to run at native res, otherwise it'll be scaling/look terrible.
But that's what they're DOING in the MacBook Pro. If you change it to 1920 x whatever, the 'Book actually renders at 3840 and scales that down to 2880 x 1800.

Originally Posted by knifecarrier2 View Post
Microsoft tried for YEARS to throw regular windows OS on a tablet form factor, and it SUCKED. However, OSX and iOS are so similar...
No, they're not.

NOTHING in OS X is built for touch interface. Not a single element is designed for it. It would require a complete revamp to make any sense.
     
knifecarrier2
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Jun 15, 2012, 10:32 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
NOTHING in OS X is built for touch interface. Not a single element is designed for it. It would require a complete revamp to make any sense.
You are misunderstanding me.

I'm not saying I'd like to use a touch interface with OSX.

What I am saying is that I would like a "computing device" that functions JUST LIKE a mac book pro, but when I slid the keyboard under the screen, it would change the OS "shell" into iOS. Kinda like how you can quickly jump into Frontrow.... think about it... if the file handling/apps could be figured out so that you could only use iOS apps or it would switch into the iOS version of the app, it would be glorious. From a hardware standpoint, there is NO REASON to have two devices with two displays, two batteries, two processors, two GPUs, etc.
     
andi*pandi
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Jun 15, 2012, 10:36 AM
 
Frankly, my first thought on trying out RocketWhatever for the first time, was how the hell am I supposed to use this without a touch interface. (I do not have ze swipey mouse, and have lots of apps. Clicking tiny little pagination button is less efficient than just having an nice big scrollbar.) Application folder in dock works fine for me.
     
ort888
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Jun 15, 2012, 10:47 AM
 
Originally Posted by knifecarrier2 View Post
You are misunderstanding me.

I'm not saying I'd like to use a touch interface with OSX.

What I am saying is that I would like a "computing device" that functions JUST LIKE a mac book pro, but when I slid the keyboard under the screen, it would change the OS "shell" into iOS. Kinda like how you can quickly jump into Frontrow.... think about it... if the file handling/apps could be figured out so that you could only use iOS apps or it would switch into the iOS version of the app, it would be glorious. From a hardware standpoint, there is NO REASON to have two devices with two displays, two batteries, two processors, two GPUs, etc.
As we say in my house...

It's good to want things.

My sig is 1 pixel too big.
     
knifecarrier2
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Jun 15, 2012, 11:49 AM
 
Or maybe if you undock the keyboard, it would just revert to an iPad. That would work too.
     
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Jun 15, 2012, 12:51 PM
 
I agree with ca$h. That would be a great product. The only problem is if people want a bigger-than-10-inch laptop and a smaller-than-13-inch tablet. For a while now I've been anticipating flexible screens. Either a modular screen or a foldable screen could solve this problem. I reckon the technology for that kind of screen is probably only just barely out of reach at this point
     
Eug
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Jun 15, 2012, 12:55 PM
 
A Mac OS X laptop that changes to a pure iPad when you undock it would royally suck. The only way it would not suck is if it were a skin for the full-on Mac OS X with a touch interface...

...which is basically analogous to what MS is trying to do with Windows 8, so far not so successfully.
     
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Jun 15, 2012, 01:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton View Post
I agree with ca$h. That would be a great product. The only problem is if people want a bigger-than-10-inch laptop and a smaller-than-13-inch tablet. For a while now I've been anticipating flexible screens. Either a modular screen or a foldable screen could solve this problem. I reckon the technology for that kind of screen is probably only just barely out of reach at this point
I'd say the problem is the yawning chasm between Intel and ARM.

I can have an Intel tablet which weighs a billion pounds, has no battery life, and I can cook eggs on it, or an ARM laptop...

...
...
...
That's me...
...
Waiting...
...
...
Man this chip is...
...
Slow...
( Last edited by subego; Jun 15, 2012 at 02:24 PM. )
     
ort888
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Jun 15, 2012, 02:16 PM
 
I'd say were more likely to see an iPad with a keyboard at some point.

It's not very Apple-ey, that's for sure, but at some point they are going to hit a wall as for ways to keep selling people new iPads.

My sig is 1 pixel too big.
     
Uncle Skeleton
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Jun 15, 2012, 02:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I'd say the problem is the yawning chasm between Intel and ARM.

I can have an Intel tablet which weighs a billion pounds, has no battery life, and I can cook eggs on it, or an ARM laptop...
The iPad weighs about 35% less than a macbook Air, and has about 35% longer battery life. Yes it's a challenge, but it's no "yawning chasm." They could just have one of each processor, and power down the intel one when it's tablet time. The detachable "dock" option takes care of the weight.
     
subego
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Jun 15, 2012, 03:02 PM
 
1) The current iPad is too heavy.

2) Trying to cram two processors in there is going to make things worse. It's like a hybrid car. It's heavier than a similarly sized single-engine car, and both engines are underpowered.
     
turtle777
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Jun 15, 2012, 03:17 PM
 
There's a nice word for that in German, Eierlegende Wollmilchsau.



-t
     
Eug
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Jun 15, 2012, 03:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
1) The current iPad is too heavy.

2) Trying to cram two processors in there is going to make things worse. It's like a hybrid car. It's heavier than a similarly sized single-engine car, and both engines are underpowered.
Car analogies always suck. With hybrids you use both engines at the same time to get a combined power.
     
subego
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Jun 15, 2012, 03:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
There's a nice word for that in German, Eierlegende Wollmilchsau.
I find it ironic the English "cowsheepigducken" uses less syllables.
     
subego
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Jun 15, 2012, 03:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Car analogies always suck. With hybrids you use both engines at the same time to get a combined power.
Which isn't as efficient.

To use a computer analogy, that's why you have 8 cores on one chip and not 8 chips.
     
turtle777
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Jun 15, 2012, 03:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I find it ironic the English "cowsheepigducken" uses less syllables.
Well, the English expression just lists 4 animals, whereas the German only lists 1 (pig), 2 types of products (wool, milk), and 1 verb (egg-laying).

Besides, if you know German, you wouldn't be surprised.
On average, German word consists of 1.635 syllables versus 1.406 in English.

Source (in German ): Man spricht deutsch

-t
     
subego
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Jun 15, 2012, 03:41 PM
 
Du schummelst!

Those are clearly waterfowl feet.
     
nonhuman
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Jun 15, 2012, 03:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Well, the English expression just lists 4 animals, whereas the German only lists 1 (pig), 2 types of products (wool, milk), and 1 verb (egg-laying).

Besides, if you know German, you wouldn't be surprised.
On average, German word consists of 1.635 syllables versus 1.406 in English.

Source (in German ): Man spricht deutsch

-t
1.635 and 1.406 in American notation, not European...
     
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Jun 15, 2012, 03:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
1) The current iPad is too heavy.

2) Trying to cram two processors in there is going to make things worse. It's like a hybrid car. It's heavier than a similarly sized single-engine car, and both engines are underpowered.
You're negative. Most engineering types are. Instead of thinking about possibilities they think of ways things can't work. If the world was full of people like you we'd still live in caves.
     
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Jun 15, 2012, 03:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
1) The current iPad is too heavy.
That must be why it's so unpopular

2) Trying to cram two processors in there is going to make things worse. It's like a hybrid car. It's heavier than a similarly sized single-engine car, and both engines are underpowered.
I would have expected any unwanted weight to be coming from (first) the battery, (second) cooling and (third) screen. I would be surprised if any detectable weight was from the chip itself, or even the motherboard. These heavy things can be shared amongst the different processors, especially if you only intend to run one at a time. Now that Apple is having their own processors designed, they could merge this tag-team into a single unit, to make this more true. If they wanted.
     
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Jun 15, 2012, 03:55 PM
 
Having TWO devices that do almost the same damn thing is annoying. I rarely use my iPod since I got my iPhone... I'm sure that's true for a lot of you. Both had processors, storage, displays, etc.
     
ort888
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Jun 15, 2012, 04:01 PM
 
So the solution to that problem is to glue an iPod to your iPhone?

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knifecarrier2
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Jun 15, 2012, 04:37 PM
 
     
turtle777
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Jun 15, 2012, 04:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by nonhuman View Post
1.635 and 1.406 in American notation, not European...
16% (rounded) more. More clear

-t
     
turtle777
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Jun 15, 2012, 04:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by knifecarrier2 View Post
Having TWO devices that do almost the same damn thing is annoying. I rarely use my iPod since I got my iPhone... I'm sure that's true for a lot of you. Both had processors, storage, displays, etc.
Not a good example.
The iPhone does everything an iPod does, and more.

Same is not true with iPads and laptops.

-t
     
knifecarrier2
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Jun 15, 2012, 04:48 PM
 
It COULD be.
     
ort888
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Jun 15, 2012, 05:10 PM
 
How heavy would it have to be? It would be huge when combined. Probably less portable than just a MacBook by itself, since the screen would have to have 2 lbs of battery in it.

There are about a million problems with the idea. I'm sure some form of what you're talking about is possible, or may be a decent idea some day, but right now, it's just not realistic.

Most of the appeal of the iPads is the amazing portability you achieve by sacrificing a lot of the things you get with a laptop. By forcing a laptop and an iPad together, you end up with the worst of both worlds.

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