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Sell Me On Romney Without Mentioning Obama
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subego
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Aug 27, 2012, 12:04 AM
 
The issue which sticks out the most to me is the malleability of his policy positions.
     
ebuddy
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Aug 27, 2012, 03:46 AM
 
  • Mitt Romney is actually a very likable person which will become more apparent as folks are more exposed to him through the RNC and debates.
  • Mitt Romney supports a wealth of pro-growth jobs legislation with a proven track record of success at a time when the business community is especially hungry for someone who speaks their language.
  • Mitt Romney governed as a Republican in a State historically polling for Democrats, establishing his ability to bridge political divides that hamper progress and damage an inclusive policy environment.
  • Mitt Romney has a great deal of both personal and professional expertise that have seasoned him well for this capacity be it working with numerous multinational corporations, a successful jobs record, considered to have saved the Olympics otherwise in disarray, and so on.
  • In spite of a highly contentious political environment, Romney managed to coalesce an extremely effective campaign strategy that spends less than it has taken in and has maintained general calmness and an interest in avoiding the gutter politics prevalent today which illustrates a degree of gravitas ready for leadership at this level.

Otherwise, it's specifically about policies; a conservative governing philosophy that one will either appreciate or not. I would suggest visiting the campaign websites of all potential candidates for an idea of that philosophy and whether or not their principles are prudent at this time.

Mitt Romney
Mitt Romney will rebuild the foundations of the American economy on the principles of free enterprise, hard work, and innovation. His plan seeks to reduce taxes, spending, regulation, and government programs. It seeks to increase trade, energy production, human capital, and labor flexibility. It relinquishes power to the states instead of claiming to have the solution to every problem.

Any American living through this economic crisis will immediately recognize the severity of the break that Mitt Romney proposes from our current course. He is calling for a fundamental change in Washington’s view of how economic growth and prosperity are achieved, how jobs are created, and how government can support these endeavors. It is at once a deeply conservative return to policies that have served our nation well...
ebuddy
     
Dork.
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Aug 27, 2012, 06:34 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
The issue which sticks out the most to me is the malleability of his policy positions.
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
[LIST][*] Mitt Romney governed as a Republican in a State historically polling for Democrats, establishing his ability to bridge political divides that hamper progress and damage an inclusive policy environment.
These are really the same thing. When you are in a situation when you have to work together with people on the other side of the ideological fence, you either pick and choose your battles (in the process making some of your positions "malleable"), or you get nothing done.
     
The Final Dakar
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Aug 27, 2012, 07:53 AM
 
• Successful businessman with a wealth of experience and intricate knowledge of the system
• As governor implemented a system that greatly reduced the amount of uninsured
     
subego  (op)
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Aug 27, 2012, 09:07 AM
 
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
Mitt Romney is actually a very likable person which will become more apparent as folks are more exposed to him through the RNC and debates.
Personally, I've always liked him. He's a little dorky and uptight, but in a way I find endearing.

Score: 1 out of 1
     
subego  (op)
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Aug 27, 2012, 09:14 AM
 
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
Mitt Romney has a great deal of both personal and professional expertise that have seasoned him well for this capacity be it working with numerous multinational corporations, a successful jobs record, considered to have saved the Olympics otherwise in disarray, and so on.
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Successful businessman with a wealth of experience and intricate knowledge of the system
This is one I think you're being unfair if you don't give him credit. Probably the best set of qualifications possible unless he could have somehow stuffed a military career in there.

Score: 2 out of 2
     
subego  (op)
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Aug 27, 2012, 09:22 AM
 
I want to tackle Romney's stint as governor, of which I'm unfortunately pretty ignorant. I shall do some research and return.
     
subego  (op)
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Aug 27, 2012, 09:48 AM
 
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
Mitt Romney governed as a Republican in a State historically polling for Democrats, establishing his ability to bridge political divides that hamper progress and damage an inclusive policy environment.
That was easier research than I thought.

AFAICT, there wasn't any need for bridging of the type we need on a national level. The Democrats controlled some 80% or more of the seats in Massachusetts. This is definitely a plus in the sense he was willing to represent his constituency, but things at the national level are more... complicated.


Edit: Dakar's statement is relevant to this.

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
As governor implemented a system that greatly reduced the amount of uninsured
     
andi*pandi
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Aug 27, 2012, 09:54 AM
 
His game was different as Governor. More moderate. He didn't have as far to stretch across party lines. Other than health care and the sales tax holiday, I don't recall what he did as governor.

If Kerry was a flipflopper, then so is Mitt.
     
subego  (op)
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Aug 27, 2012, 09:58 AM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
He didn't have as far to stretch across party lines.
That's another point. A Massachusetts Republican is likely a Democrat in the majority of other states.
     
lpkmckenna
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Aug 27, 2012, 09:59 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
The issue which sticks out the most to me is the malleability of his policy positions.
Romney doesn't have a principled bone in his body. Only a short while ago, he was proposing a constitutional amendment to ban anyone without business experience from being President, then he selects a VP candidate who's been in Congress for 7 terms and never had a job in the private sector.

Aside from the arrogance of recommending a constitutional amendment for something so fncking stupid, it displays his extreme short-sightedness regarding policies that would have long term consequences. A man who had run a banana stand could be President, but a former General or NASA scientist couldn't.

And in the end, his constitutional amendment idea was just a stupid ploy to convince equally shortsighted people to vote for him. He doesn't take policy stances because he believes they are right, he makes them because his thinks it will make him popular. And when it doesn't work, he throws that idea away, which doesn't bother him because he didn't believe in it anyway, he was just saying it sucker people.

The Romney way is to tell people what he thinks they want to hear, and if that doesn't work, tell them something else he thinks they want to hear, until something sticks. But he'll never ask people what they actually want, or tell people what he really thinks.

A vote for Romney is a vote for a black box; you have no idea what you are actually voting for.
     
lpkmckenna
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Aug 27, 2012, 10:20 AM
 
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
In spite of a highly contentious political environment, Romney managed to coalesce an extremely effective campaign strategy that spends less than it has taken in and has maintained general calmness and an interest in avoiding the gutter politics prevalent today which illustrates a degree of gravitas ready for leadership at this level.
You said a bunch of stuff I don't agree with, but this comment is simply crazy. The Romney campaign is a complete train wreck. The Nate Silver's NYT blog Five Thirty Eight only gives Romney a 30% chance at winning, despite the fact that the economy isn't doing great. This kind of campaign performance is astoundingly awful.

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com

And then there's the audacious lies: Obama says "you didn't build roads and bridges," and Romney doubles-down on the naked lie about "you didn't build your business." Degree of gravitas?!? You've got to be kidding me. Romney is the most dishonest Presidential candidate in decades. He's the unparalleled king of gutter politics.
     
subego  (op)
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Aug 27, 2012, 12:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
In spite of a highly contentious political environment, Romney managed to coalesce an extremely effective campaign strategy that spends less than it has taken in and has maintained general calmness and an interest in avoiding the gutter politics prevalent today which illustrates a degree of gravitas ready for leadership at this level.
This is a shaky claim to me, at least as a potential swing voter*. One of the things I (and presumably other swing-voters) look for is how the campaign deals with crisis. McCain's response to his crisis was to shoot from the hip. From where I was standing that was truly terrifying. This was a loose cannon. There was no way I was picking a loose cannon to deal with our precarious military situation. Policy promises didn't come into it. I mean, we're swing-voters. There's obviously something other than policy stance we're looking for.

Romney's crisis has been his tax returns, and his response has been to stand there while he gets pounded harder and harder. To me, this is an equally terrifying crisis respone. I'd describe it as paralyzation.


Edit: *I was a potential swing-voter in 2008 until Palin. For the sake of argument I'm pretending Bob Barr is the Libertarian choice again, which would place me firmly in the swing-voter category for this election.
     
subego  (op)
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Aug 27, 2012, 12:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by lpkmckenna View Post
Romney doesn't have a principled bone in his body. Only a short while ago, he was proposing a constitutional amendment to ban anyone without business experience from being President, then he selects a VP candidate who's been in Congress for 7 terms and never had a job in the private sector.
Aside from the arrogance of recommending a constitutional amendment for something so fncking stupid, it displays his extreme short-sightedness regarding policies that would have long term consequences. A man who had run a banana stand could be President, but a former General or NASA scientist couldn't.
And in the end, his constitutional amendment idea was just a stupid ploy to convince equally shortsighted people to vote for him. He doesn't take policy stances because he believes they are right, he makes them because his thinks it will make him popular. And when it doesn't work, he throws that idea away, which doesn't bother him because he didn't believe in it anyway, he was just saying it sucker people.
The Romney way is to tell people what he thinks they want to hear, and if that doesn't work, tell them something else he thinks they want to hear, until something sticks. But he'll never ask people what they actually want, or tell people what he really thinks.
A vote for Romney is a vote for a black box; you have no idea what you are actually voting for.
It's one thing if you want to disagree with ebuddy, but this is just a massive threadcrap.
     
The Final Dakar
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Aug 27, 2012, 12:33 PM
 
At least he didn't spell it "Rmoney".
     
ebuddy
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Aug 27, 2012, 05:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
This is a shaky claim to me, at least as a potential swing voter*. One of the things I (and presumably other swing-voters) look for is how the campaign deals with crisis. McCain's response to his crisis was to shoot from the hip. From where I was standing that was truly terrifying. This was a loose cannon. There was no way I was picking a loose cannon to deal with our precarious military situation. Policy promises didn't come into it. I mean, we're swing-voters. There's obviously something other than policy stance we're looking for.
Romney's crisis has been his tax returns, and his response has been to stand there while he gets pounded harder and harder. To me, this is an equally terrifying crisis respone. I'd describe it as paralyzation.
Edit: *I was a potential swing-voter in 2008 until Palin. For the sake of argument I'm pretending Bob Barr is the Libertarian choice again, which would place me firmly in the swing-voter category for this election.
I disagree with both you and mckenna, but have decided to give him some much-needed space until after the election.

I don't think Romney's tax returns have been a campaign crisis and while I've had different ideas on how to handle the issue, it doesn't mean I'm right. Ultimately, I just don't believe there would be an honest pursuit of the truth on these returns and think it's very shrewd for Romney to refuse them. If Romney releases them, he poses more risk to everyone he's ever associated with than he does to himself and this election. He doesn't need to do this and I don't think he will, personally. Politically, there's only so much time for bringing your policy initiatives to the public and you don't want to squander it in the weeds of the Cayman Islands. There's no reason I should assume these are lacking in leadership quality and related decision-making, a miscalculation, or a real problem for his campaign.

I also give the Romney campaign credit for remaining disciplined and calm throughout the Republican primaries which I think was good for him. He's not getting dragged in too deeply now which I believe will continue to pay dividends for the same reasons it did in the primaries. His campaign has shown the courage of conviction in the choice of Ryan and they're maintaining an extremely fiscally-disciplined campaign, saving the lion's share of their war chest for when the majority of voters are paying attention. All this while beginning to show an edge in public opinion on Medicare which is something Republicans just aren't usually capable of.
ebuddy
     
ebuddy
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Aug 27, 2012, 05:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
That's another point. A Massachusetts Republican is likely a Democrat in the majority of other states.
Unless that's supposed to make him less capable of reaching across the aisle, I don't see how this isn't a net-gain for his popularity. Yes, national politics are different, but there's still a choice between two candidates if you see any difference in them at all.
ebuddy
     
kimosABE
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Aug 27, 2012, 06:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dork. View Post
These are really the same thing. When you are in a situation when you have to work together with people on the other side of the ideological fence, you either pick and choose your battles (in the process making some of your positions "malleable"), or you get nothing done.
     
ironknee
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Aug 27, 2012, 06:05 PM
 
i appreciate all the reasons but

as governor he was pro choice
as governor he said, ‘I’ll Be Better Than Ted For Gay Rights!’

all i'm saying is remember alito sided with obamacare

not to mention, christians, what do you really think about him being a mormon?
     
kimosABE
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Aug 27, 2012, 06:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by lpkmckenna View Post
Romney doesn't have a principled bone in his body. Only a short while ago, he was proposing a constitutional amendment to ban anyone without business experience from being President, then he selects a VP candidate who's been in Congress for 7 terms and never had a job in the private sector.
Aside from the arrogance of recommending a constitutional amendment for something so fncking stupid, it displays his extreme short-sightedness regarding policies that would have long term consequences. A man who had run a banana stand could be President, but a former General or NASA scientist couldn't.
And in the end, his constitutional amendment idea was just a stupid ploy to convince equally shortsighted people to vote for him. He doesn't take policy stances because he believes they are right, he makes them because his thinks it will make him popular. And when it doesn't work, he throws that idea away, which doesn't bother him because he didn't believe in it anyway, he was just saying it sucker people.
The Romney way is to tell people what he thinks they want to hear, and if that doesn't work, tell them something else he thinks they want to hear, until something sticks. But he'll never ask people what they actually want, or tell people what he really thinks.
A vote for Romney is a vote for a black box; you have no idea what you are actually voting for.


You are just uninformed or...
     
kimosABE
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Aug 27, 2012, 06:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by ironknee View Post
i appreciate all the reasons but
as governor he was pro choice
as governor he said, ‘I’ll Be Better Than Ted For Gay Rights!’
all i'm saying is remember alito sided with obamacare
not to mention, christians, what do you really think about him being a mormon?
When you are losing the contest why not see if the religious bigotry card might get some play?

Right?

     
besson3c
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Aug 27, 2012, 07:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by kimosABE View Post


You are just uninformed or...
Careful Abe, this is the kind of thing that will earn you infractions. A better response might have been:

"well, I think Romney is better"
     
kimosABE
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Aug 27, 2012, 07:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Careful Abe, this is the kind of thing that will earn you infractions. A better response might have been:

"well, I think Romney is better"
How about, "I think Romney is better than your pinky toe?"
     
besson3c
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Aug 27, 2012, 07:15 PM
 

     
hyteckit
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Aug 27, 2012, 10:11 PM
 
1. Mitt Romney is pro-choice
2. Mitt Romney is pro-gay rights
3. Mitt Romney is government run health-care and the individual mandate


Maybe I should use 'was' instead of 'is'.
Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
     
subego  (op)
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Aug 27, 2012, 10:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
Unless that's supposed to make him less capable of reaching across the aisle, I don't see how this isn't a net-gain for his popularity. Yes, national politics are different, but there's still a choice between two candidates if you see any difference in them at all.
C'mon. It doesn't make him less capable then you implied? Even a little? How's about when you factor in the overwhelming majority in the legislature?
     
subego  (op)
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Aug 27, 2012, 10:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
I disagree with both you and mckenna, but have decided to give him some much-needed space until after the election.
I don't think Romney's tax returns have been a campaign crisis and while I've had different ideas on how to handle the issue, it doesn't mean I'm right. Ultimately, I just don't believe there would be an honest pursuit of the truth on these returns and think it's very shrewd for Romney to refuse them. If Romney releases them, he poses more risk to everyone he's ever associated with than he does to himself and this election. He doesn't need to do this and I don't think he will, personally. Politically, there's only so much time for bringing your policy initiatives to the public and you don't want to squander it in the weeds of the Cayman Islands. There's no reason I should assume these are lacking in leadership quality and related decision-making, a miscalculation, or a real problem for his campaign.
I also give the Romney campaign credit for remaining disciplined and calm throughout the Republican primaries which I think was good for him. He's not getting dragged in too deeply now which I believe will continue to pay dividends for the same reasons it did in the primaries. His campaign has shown the courage of conviction in the choice of Ryan and they're maintaining an extremely fiscally-disciplined campaign, saving the lion's share of their war chest for when the majority of voters are paying attention. All this while beginning to show an edge in public opinion on Medicare which is something Republicans just aren't usually capable of.
I could be wrong myself. Time will tell.

He's currently being accused of taking advantage of the IRS amnesty for offshore tax evasion, and has yet to refute it. Is it unreasonable to conclude a continued lack of refutation means a high probability this is in fact what he did?
     
ebuddy
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Aug 28, 2012, 02:38 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
C'mon. It doesn't make him less capable then you implied? Even a little? How's about when you factor in the overwhelming majority in the legislature?
An environment he's accustomed to at an executive level?
ebuddy
     
ebuddy
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Aug 28, 2012, 02:42 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I could be wrong myself. Time will tell.
He's currently being accused of taking advantage of the IRS amnesty for offshore tax evasion, and has yet to refute it. Is it unreasonable to conclude a continued lack of refutation means a high probability this is in fact what he did?
He repeatedly claims that he has broken no tax laws, he should refute every charge made against him at all times? Why would he do this when he'd rather discuss things that are meaningful this election season?
ebuddy
     
andi*pandi
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Aug 28, 2012, 03:29 AM
 
Hey, Lance Armstrong claimed to be innocent too, until... yeah. We should take Romney's word on it?
     
ebuddy
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Aug 28, 2012, 03:37 AM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
Hey, Lance Armstrong claimed to be innocent too, until... yeah. We should take Romney's word on it?
So... if tax returns weren't an issue here, you'd consider Romney for President of the United States? And I'm supposed to take you on your word?

Otherwise, no one is asking you to take Romney's word on it. What I've been telling you is that it doesn't matter what is or is not in them, people will believe what they believe regardless of evidence.
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Aug 28, 2012, 03:42 AM
 
At this point ebuddy, the tax returns are going to be used to gain political traction against Romney. Past presidents have released their returns. Would you agree that it would be politically smart of Romney to release them if he had nothing to hide?
     
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Aug 28, 2012, 03:47 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
At this point ebuddy, the tax returns are going to be used to gain political traction against Romney. Past presidents have released their returns. Would you agree that it would be politically smart of Romney to release them if he had nothing to hide?
Typically, the amount of money you donate to your religious affiliation and/or numerous legal business exchanges wouldn't be things necessary to hide, but I maintain it is different this time around. I believe he's being very personally and politically shrewd by not releasing them and I've been given absolutely zero reasons why they're important.
ebuddy
     
The Final Dakar
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Aug 28, 2012, 05:07 AM
 
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
I believe he's being very personally and politically shrewd by not releasing them
Shrewd is an... interesting way to put it.



Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
I've been given absolutely zero reasons why they're important.
Now, now, be fair, you've accepted zero of the reasons given.
     
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Aug 28, 2012, 05:23 AM
 
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post

Typically, the amount of money you donate to your religious affiliation and/or numerous legal business exchanges wouldn't be things necessary to hide, but I maintain it is different this time around. I believe he's being very personally and politically shrewd by not releasing them and I've been given absolutely zero reasons why they're important.
But leave whether you think they are important aside, will his choice ultimately hurt him politically? I think it will, it makes him appear like he has something to hide, and it gives his opponents ammo.

About the only way he could win is by taking a leadership role and making the case that this sort of vetting is never necessary for any president ever, but I'm not sure he could pull that off.
     
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Aug 28, 2012, 05:28 AM
 
Mitt Romney was my governor for 3-ish years. I think he actually did pretty well as governor of Massachusetts, though I was opposed to his health care plan then as I am to Obama's now. (Though, for the record, I think that his argument that it's appropriate at a state level and not at a federal level is a valid one on Constitutional grounds. Far more so than the Supreme Court's arguments to the contrary. However, I'm also willing to accept as valid that federal health care legislation may be Constitutional under the General Welfare clause.) While I lived in Massachusetts—and was young, healthy, and not particularly wealthy—I found it more reasonable and affordable to pay the tax fine for not being insured than to be insured, at least until I got married and so was able to get coverage under my wife's plan from work.

The things that will keep me from voting for him for President, as with John McCain, are his willingness to pander to the evangelical, Republican base. Even while I suspect that his own Mormonism will help ensure that he's more open to and tolerant of a diverse religious landscape and will lean more towards supporting freedom of (and from!) religion, the fact that he, and his dipshit of a VP pick, appear to be completely happy to go along with the evangelicals on their generally anti-science ideas makes him a hard sell for me. He also seems to be very happy to go along with the modern, expansive interpretation of executive power, and unthinking, knee-jerk reactions to any and all threats, real or perceived.

I want a calm, rational, thoughtful President. One who's willing to step back and think about an issue or problem rather than default to immediate action. I would especially like a President who's demonstrated the ability to exercise some critical thinking. Four years ago, I thought that Obama fit those qualifications. I'm less sure now, though I do still think he's better in that regard than most of our options.

Between Romney and Obama, I think I'd lean very slightly towards Romney, but it's hard to say for sure. They both have their own strengths and weaknesses (though my previous support for Obama was largely based on his vocal and active support for civil liberties; something which he's largely abandoned as President, thus also largely abandoning the chance that I'd vote for him again).

I think it's most likely that I'll vote for Gary Johnson. It's extremely unlikely that I would be swayed to vote for Obama again, and probably somewhat less unlikely that I could be swayed to vote for Romney. Overall I'm just sick and tired of our partisan system and the damage that it's doing to our country. The best thing for the United State, right now, is for us to find a way to actually be able to approach problems rationally and come up with reasonable, practical solutions that aren't based on protecting incumbents or establishing one-party domination.
     
nonhuman
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Aug 28, 2012, 05:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post

Typically, the amount of money you donate to your religious affiliation and/or numerous legal business exchanges wouldn't be things necessary to hide, but I maintain it is different this time around. I believe he's being very personally and politically shrewd by not releasing them and I've been given absolutely zero reasons why they're important.
They're important because they give you cold, hard facts about the person you're considering voting for. That's something we otherwise don't really get during a campaign. They tell you something about that person's character in a way that is completely honest, and they show that the candidate is even willing to be honest and to open up themselves for scrutiny.

That said, I don't think it's essential that a candidate release their returns. The way that Romney is handling this, however, is nothing other than evasive and dishonest. He clearly, and plainly, refuses to open himself up for scrutiny, which, while it proves nothing, certainly fuels suspicions. However I suspect that this won't really hurt him in the polls. It may actually help. It will endear him to the less thoughtful of the libertarian-leaning voters who will think that Romney's reluctance to release his own tax returns will translate somehow to him being willing to adjust the system to keep the public (read: government) out of their own (comparatively very meager) finances. It won't, of course, but people will talk themselves into believing it anyway.

I do find it interesting, that to the extent that's he's given in at all, he's released only very limited information about a single year of this taxes. There's a problem with that, namely that, 'Release of the document, while it might serve a political purpose, would not prove very much… One year could be a fluke, perhaps done for show, and what mattered in personal finance was how a man conducted himself over the long haul'.

That happens to be a direct quote from George Romney, Mitt's father. He also happens to have been the first Presidential candidate to release his tax returns: he released 12 years of them to counteract the aforementioned problem.

From what I can tell, George Romney is exactly the sort of man I would have wanted to elect as my President. His son, however, has deviated from his father's course in many, not particularly attractive ways.
     
CRASH HARDDRIVE
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Aug 28, 2012, 06:43 AM
 
I couldn't give a reason to vote for Romney without mentioning Obama.

Pretty much his one overwhelming advantage is that he ISN'T Obama. That's it really. Vote for him to vote against Obama and the failed policies of Regressives.

The problem is, some or even all of those same policies will likely end up gone along with by Romney too, allowing Regressives to blame all the continuing failures on conservatives. (Even though Romney only barely even qualifies as one, if at all, similar to Bush).
     
Waragainstsleep
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Aug 28, 2012, 07:02 AM
 
Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE View Post
I couldn't give a reason to vote for Romney without mentioning Obama.
Pretty much his one overwhelming advantage is that he ISN'T Obama. That's it really. Vote for him to vote against Obama and the failed policies of Regressives.
The problem is, some or even all of those same policies will likely end up gone along with by Romney too, allowing Regressives to blame all the continuing failures on conservatives. (Even though Romney only barely even qualifies as one, if at all, similar to Bush).
This would be so funny if you didn't mean it so earnestly. Its still kinda funny, but very sad too.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Chongo
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Aug 28, 2012, 07:03 AM
 
I voted for Romney over McCain in 2008.
     
subego  (op)
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Aug 28, 2012, 07:26 AM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
I voted for Romney over McCain in 2008.
Well now... that sells me!

Actually, I would have done the same, but things were locked up by then.
     
subego  (op)
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Aug 28, 2012, 07:29 AM
 
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
He repeatedly claims that he has broken no tax laws, he should refute every charge made against him at all times? Why would he do this when he'd rather discuss things that are meaningful this election season?
Has this been his claim?

Honestly, I've only seen very carefully parsed statements from him, like (I'm paraphrasing) "I paid all the money I owe, and not a dollar more".
     
subego  (op)
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Aug 28, 2012, 07:30 AM
 
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
An environment he's accustomed to at an executive level?
Huh?
     
The Final Dakar
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Aug 28, 2012, 09:08 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Has this been his claim?
Honestly, I've only seen very carefully parsed statements from him, like (I'm paraphrasing) "I paid all the money I owe, and not a dollar more".
And "I paid taxes, a lot of them" without specifying the type.
     
Chongo
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Aug 28, 2012, 09:23 AM
 
[snip]
     
subego  (op)
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Aug 28, 2012, 09:39 AM
 
[snail]
     
CRASH HARDDRIVE
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Aug 28, 2012, 12:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
This would be so funny if you didn't mean it so earnestly. Its still kinda funny, but very sad too.
*yawn* I see we have some new cut-and-paste trolls around here regurgitating the same stuff as the others. Welcome.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Aug 28, 2012, 03:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE View Post
*yawn* I see we have some new cut-and-paste trolls around here regurgitating the same stuff as the others. Welcome.
So republicans screw the economy up, then do everything they can to stop the democrats from fixing it, and its the democrats fault the economy is a mess. Then if the republicans get back in power and fail to fix the mess they created in the first place, it'll still be the democrats fault?

Its not you who should be yawning.


Yawning looks a lot like screaming from a distance.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
subego  (op)
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Aug 28, 2012, 03:35 PM
 
I think you mean [puppy dog tail]
     
ironknee
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Aug 28, 2012, 03:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by kimosABE View Post
When you are losing the contest why not see if the religious bigotry card might get some play?
Right?
do you know what mormons believe?

doesn't matter to me cause i think any religion is silly
     
 
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