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How, exactly, has Obama failed?
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Mrjinglesusa
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Aug 31, 2012, 05:43 PM
 
I keep seeing this posted on various threads, i.e., that Obama failed. There is never any substance to these passing remarks, only that he "failed".

When Obama took office, we were on the brink of a 2nd Great Depression. The economy was a disaster, the DOW was at ~8,000, car manufacturers were facing bankruptcy which would lead to the loss of tens of thousands of jobs, major financial institutions were facing collapse, the housing and lending market was in a free fall, etc. NONE of this was Obama's fault.

If he "failed", why is the DOW at over 13,000, car manufacturers are doing well and tens of thousands of jobs were saved, we now have re-regulation of financial institutions, the housing market is stabilized and slowly coming back, and the economy is slowly but surely improving.

Did people think that the mess our country was in would be turned around overnight and in 4 years everything would be rainbows and unicorns?

It took 8 years for Bush to f*** this country up, it's going to take more than 4 to turn it back around, especially when Obama is faced with a House doing everything in its power to prevent him from succeeding.

So I'm curious, how exactly has Obama failed? What is the metric of success that is being used? Why isn't any of the blame being put on House Republicans who absolutely REFUSED to compromise so as not to give Obama a "victory" on anything?
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Wiskedjak
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Aug 31, 2012, 06:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa View Post
How, exactly, has Obama failed?
The answer to that question is simple: he isn't Republican.
     
nonhuman
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Sep 1, 2012, 04:13 AM
 
By ordering the assassination (sorry, 'targeted killing') of US citizens.
     
subego
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Sep 1, 2012, 04:59 AM
 
He proposed the executive (military) authority the White House claims over the perpetrators of 9/11 become actual legislation, and apply to anyone judged to be part of the war on terror.
He proposed that military authority should apply to US citizens.
He supported SOPA and PIPA.
Rewrites the definition of torture and then proudly states we don't torture.
He made no proposals to alter the Patriot Act.
He took no action on warrantless wiretaps, except apparently to make more of them.
He's busting up medical marijuana dispensaries.
Instead of telling BP to go **** themselves, he provided them cover.
     
Wiskedjak
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Sep 1, 2012, 05:58 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
He proposed the executive (military) authority the White House claims over the perpetrators of 9/11 become actual legislation, and apply to anyone judged to be part of the war on terror.
He proposed that military authority should apply to US citizens.
He supported SOPA and PIPA.
Rewrites the definition of torture and then proudly states we don't torture.
He made no proposals to alter the Patriot Act.
He took no action on warrantless wiretaps, except apparently to make more of them.
He's busting up medical marijuana dispensaries.
Instead of telling BP to go **** themselves, he provided them cover.
That's almost identical to *my* answer.
     
subego
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Sep 1, 2012, 06:15 AM
 
Not sure I follow.
     
ebuddy
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Sep 1, 2012, 06:20 AM
 
Moratorium on offshore drilling and numerous other constraints on domestic energy development while providing US aid to others' energy development. Opposition to Keystone Pipeline for example, so his preferred cigar-chomping crony of Berkshire Hathaway (and since 2009 now own 22% of Burlington Northern), mired in $1 billion in back taxes from 2002 would transport the commodity by rail. Obama's lack of leadership and sluggish response to the BP oil travesty made Bush's response to Katrina seem like superman.
  • 100.6% increase in gas prices.
  • 35% increase in those using food stamps.
  • 9.5% increase in the number of those living in poverty.
  • 20+% increase in the number of unemployeds and a 146% increase in longterm unemployment.
  • National debt up 34% from $10.6 trillion to over $14 trillion

For those most critical of the Bush Administration using many of these same metrics for gauging his failures; what has Obama done differently than Bush that would change course?


For the liberals in general; subego had mentioned some good ones such as the use of rendition as a common cover of the left for maintaining torture, Gitmo remains open, wire-tapping remains, the wars continue along with new little actions such as those in Libya (violating the War Powers Act) for no appreciable US interest, shameless corporate cronyism, and so many broken promises that I can't imagine what you'd hope for in another term other than hostile rhetoric, more gridlock, and an economic recovery with numbers that look worse than the recession that preceded it.

Among other problems...
  • Fails to uphold the laws of the land, instead subverting them through Executive Order.
  • Files lawsuits against States trying to uphold Federal law.
  • held in contempt of court for illegally obstructing oil drilling in the Gulf of Mexico.
  • Files executive privilege to obstruct justice around a failed gun-running operation he claims the Executive Branch had nothing to do with, but resulted in hundreds of Mexicans and a US border patrol agent dead.
  • Presided over a downgrade of US credit rating
  • Invests hundreds of millions of dollars outsourcing US taxpayer dollars and jobs overseas on a well-documented, failing solar venture only to watch them go belly-up and our tax dollars disappear into the pockets of the executives.
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subego
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Sep 1, 2012, 06:28 AM
 
I should have voted for Nader in 2008.

I am 100% serious. I want a friggin refund.
     
Wiskedjak
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Sep 1, 2012, 07:11 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Not sure I follow.
If he were a Republican, none of those items would be considered "failures".
     
subego
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Sep 1, 2012, 12:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
If he were a Republican, none of those items would be considered "failures".
Why?

I'm not challenging you, I'm still trying to get at your point.
     
besson3c
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Sep 1, 2012, 01:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
Moratorium on offshore drilling and numerous other constraints on domestic energy development while providing US aid to others' energy development. Opposition to Keystone Pipeline for example, so his preferred cigar-chomping crony of Berkshire Hathaway (and since 2009 now own 22% of Burlington Northern), mired in $1 billion in back taxes from 2002 would transport the commodity by rail. Obama's lack of leadership and sluggish response to the BP oil travesty made Bush's response to Katrina seem like superman.
  • 100.6% increase in gas prices.
  • 35% increase in those using food stamps.
  • 9.5% increase in the number of those living in poverty.
  • 20+% increase in the number of unemployeds and a 146% increase in longterm unemployment.
  • National debt up 34% from $10.6 trillion to over $14 trillion
For those most critical of the Bush Administration using many of these same metrics for gauging his failures; what has Obama done differently than Bush that would change course?
For the liberals in general; subego had mentioned some good ones such as the use of rendition as a common cover of the left for maintaining torture, Gitmo remains open, wire-tapping remains, the wars continue along with new little actions such as those in Libya (violating the War Powers Act) for no appreciable US interest, shameless corporate cronyism, and so many broken promises that I can't imagine what you'd hope for in another term other than hostile rhetoric, more gridlock, and an economic recovery with numbers that look worse than the recession that preceded it.
Among other problems...
  • Fails to uphold the laws of the land, instead subverting them through Executive Order.
  • Files lawsuits against States trying to uphold Federal law.
  • held in contempt of court for illegally obstructing oil drilling in the Gulf of Mexico.
  • Files executive privilege to obstruct justice around a failed gun-running operation he claims the Executive Branch had nothing to do with, but resulted in hundreds of Mexicans and a US border patrol agent dead.
  • Presided over a downgrade of US credit rating
  • Invests hundreds of millions of dollars outsourcing US taxpayer dollars and jobs overseas on a well-documented, failing solar venture only to watch them go belly-up and our tax dollars disappear into the pockets of the executives.
Is a president responsible for gas prices? Do you have evidence that the Keystone pipeline would have been safe? What would you have liked Obama to have during the BP spill? What is your source for the food stamps increase and your other stats? I've given some examples of what Obama has done differently than Bush in one of the other threads. As far as hostile rhetoric and gridlock goes, what evidence is there to suggest that congress was ever willing to cooperate with Obama?
     
Mrjinglesusa  (op)
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Sep 1, 2012, 02:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
As far as hostile rhetoric and gridlock goes, what evidence is there to suggest that congress was ever willing to cooperate with Obama?
There isn't. In fact, quite the opposite. This Congress has done EVERYTHING in their power to make sure nothing Obama "fails". Obama cannot pass laws on his own. He can propose laws, but he requires that Congress pass them so he can sign them into law.

To people who say Obama failed, I say BLAME IT ON THE HOUSE.
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subego
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Sep 1, 2012, 03:20 PM
 
We built that!
     
besson3c
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Sep 1, 2012, 03:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post

We built that!
He did build the house, and I'm hoping that during this election cycle that we don't ignore those races in the midst of the presidential circus.
     
hyteckit
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Sep 2, 2012, 12:56 AM
 
Pres. Obama failed to prevent 9/11 from happening and failed to prevent the GM plant in Wisconsin from closing in 2008.

Pres. Obama also failed to prevent gas prices to go up to $4/gal in 2008. Failed to prevent the financial market, housing market, and the stock market from collapsing in 2008.

If Mitt Romney can 'retroactively' change the past, while can't Pres. Obama?
Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
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2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
     
hyteckit
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Sep 2, 2012, 01:07 AM
 
BP oil spill - We Built Itâ„¢

Only socialist commies think government should socialize oil spills by bailing out BP.
Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
     
subego
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Sep 2, 2012, 03:36 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
What would you have liked Obama to have during the BP spill?
Bust some heads.
     
besson3c
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Sep 2, 2012, 04:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post


Bust some heads.
Within BP, the government, or both?
     
subego
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Sep 2, 2012, 05:22 AM
 
Both.

The buck ultimately stops with him though. He never even came close to acknowledging the true magnitude of the situation, which in technical terms is known as "****ed". Instead, he authorized a bunch of theatre to make it look like something was being done.

When it was time to be straight with the American people, he chose to be BP's lapdog. The truth would have destroyed BP, and we can't have that happen, can we?
     
besson3c
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Sep 2, 2012, 05:26 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Both.
The buck ultimately stops with him though. He never even came close to acknowledging the true magnitude of the situation, which in technical terms is known as "****ed". Instead, he authorized a bunch of theatre to make it look like something was being done.
When it was time to be straight with the American people, he chose to be BP's lapdog. The truth would have destroyed BP, and we can't have that happen, can we?
Fair enough. I don't remember exactly how that played out, but it did seem like that story disappeared sooner than one would expect it ought to have, and I don't remember hearing anything about any sort of EPA shakeup at the aftermath.
     
subego
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Sep 2, 2012, 05:34 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
I don't remember exactly how that played out
Mission accomplished.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Sep 2, 2012, 06:32 AM
 
Would a republican have done anything different? I doubt it, this was typical, non-partisan politics.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
andi*pandi
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Sep 2, 2012, 06:37 AM
 
I think failure has to be measured by not meeting goals, or in this case, promises. So no closing Guantanemo? Ok, failure. Green policies? For every Solyndra, is there a success story? Did he promise to alter the Patriot Act?
     
besson3c
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Sep 2, 2012, 07:13 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Would a republican have done anything different? I doubt it, this was typical, non-partisan politics.
I think with an incident like this the Left is probably more inclined to vent frustration on BP for something like this, whereas the Right would be more inclined to vent frustration at the EPA for establishing the rules of the game and/or not enforcing them properly. It would have been bad politics for Obama to throw BP under the bus since this would galvanize the Right into wanting to knock government down some more pegs.

I fault Obama though, bad politics or not. We can't let the far right control the message, particularly with an agency as important as the EPA.
     
besson3c
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Sep 2, 2012, 07:17 AM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
I think failure has to be measured by not meeting goals, or in this case, promises. So no closing Guantanemo? Ok, failure. Green policies? For every Solyndra, is there a success story? Did he promise to alter the Patriot Act?
Not closing Guantanemo is not only a failure for not having done it, but for having reneged on his campaign promise to do so. This always pisses off voters.

One of the many reasons why I have very little inspiration to participate in this election cycle is that for many of these Obama failures, like Waragainstsleep says, it's hard to get excited over the premise that a Romney administration would handle this as I'd want either.

For the life of me I can't understand how anybody would label these sorts of sentiments as far left, making the case that the country has moved to the far left thanks to Obama. I'd say very emphatically that the fact that you had your Rick Santorums being considered as serious candidate that a part of this country has moved to the far right. Maybe it has forked and part of it has moved to the far left, part to the far right, leaving very little in the center, and leaving the center difficult to define?


Grammar question: when talking about the left/right, far left/far right, left wing/right wing, etc. are you supposed to capitalize left/right?
     
ebuddy
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Sep 3, 2012, 05:49 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post

Is a president responsible for gas prices?
He's held accountable for energy policy, sure; to the extent that Bush was accountable for gas prices when they hit their pinnacle during Bush's term. Do I think the POTUS has his finger directly on the actual speculation? No, but then speculation ebbs and flows (in many cases) with global oil prospects and the less favorable those prospects appear for domestic production and even the very rhetoric around domestic production can and does influence the cost of gas in the US.

Do you have evidence that the Keystone pipeline would have been safe?
The point of contention was the actual proposed route. And while there's a veritable web of antiquated piping from the 60's weaving in and out of the midwest over that same route, the proposed route was changed to accommodate the concerns of the Nebraska legislature over their aquifer and was still put on hold. More than three years of research data had been put up establishing this pipeline's safety.

What would you have liked Obama to have during the BP spill?
One could start with the safety award BP was offered by the Obama Administration less than a year prior to the disaster or the fact that while they renamed the Minerals Management Service offshore oversight authority, there was no top-down change in management makeup. The New York Times mentioned of the Federal response; "bedeviled by a lack of preparation, organization, urgency, and clear lines of authority.... As a result the damage to the coastline and wildlife has been worse than it might have been if the response had been faster and orchestrated more effectively." For example, there are some 19 NOAA research vessels available with equipment specifically designed to address oceanic ecological problems like oil spills and yet only 5 of them were dispatched to the site... after three weeks time. The Federal government spent millions on a contingency plan to address oil spills as a result of our response to the Exxon Valdez crisis yet never dispatched the plan; among them were floating barriers to stop the oil from reaching shore being developed out of Illinois, but we did not use them instead waiting for provisions from an overseas manufacturer and repeatedly claiming this was all BPs responsibility. (which is great as long as so many US citizens weren't at risk). No phone calls directly to the President of BP, coast guard sitting there watching the tragedy unfold with no real equipment or training to address the problem. After 8 weeks of watching BPs engineers flail around with no real clue of how to stop the bleeding and the Federal government having ignored the contributions of numerous other engineers here and abroad; the Louisiana governor finally got so fed up with the lack of Federal response that he eventually ordered the National Guard to build barrier walls nine miles off the coast to keep oil from reaching the Louisiana shore. Again, these were all very similar to how Bush was judged in the Federal response to Katrina.

What is your source for the food stamps increase and your other stats?
How about this -- any source you can find that measures such things besson. I mean, unless of course you have some stats that show a decrease in EBT (food stamp) usage, decline in poverty, decreased Federal debt and deficit, a decrease in the number of unemployeds, and decreasing longterm unemployment. What is your source for optimism?

I've given some examples of what Obama has done differently than Bush in one of the other threads. As far as hostile rhetoric and gridlock goes, what evidence is there to suggest that congress was ever willing to cooperate with Obama?
Yes, the tired "party of no/obstructionism" argument. Was a budget passed within the first two years while Obama enjoyed a majority Democratic House and Senate? While he squandered every dime of political capital forcing through health care reform that required waivers to Unions and payoffs to Democratic senators for support, what affect have his different policies had on the economy? And be sure to include all those sources.
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Shaddim
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Sep 3, 2012, 11:47 AM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
I think failure has to be measured by not meeting goals, or in this case, promises. So no closing Guantanemo? Ok, failure. Green policies? For every Solyndra, is there a success story? Did he promise to alter the Patriot Act?
Yes, he promised a repeal during his campaign, instead we got a broadening of executive powers and easier wiretaps. That's why I don't say anything via electronic media (email, phone, fax, SMS) that could be considered sensitive in any way. I know several people who communicate by handwritten letter that's shipped in a sealed mailer via UPS or FedEx (I've seen the "letters", they're really more like short novels). That sounds nutty, but they want their conversations to be 100% private.
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kimosABE
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Sep 3, 2012, 03:06 PM
 
OBAMA BANNED THIS VIDEO - GEE, I WONDER WHY!.flv

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-HqHSkYG-Y&sns=em


I'm not saying I wholeheartedly endorse everything in this vid but it does bring up troubling questions. And I figured you Obama loving MacNN'ers would easily be able to explain and/or refute some of the implications made in it.

Oh, and, changing subjects, FYI, actor Michael Clarke Duncan was 54.
     
subego
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Sep 3, 2012, 03:17 PM
 
Am I missing something? How is it banned if it's on YouTube?
     
kimosABE
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Sep 3, 2012, 03:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Am I missing something? How is it banned if it's on YouTube?
See? That's what I was counting on. You and your sharp witted fellow MacNN'ers will get to the bottom of these matters.
     
Wiskedjak
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Sep 3, 2012, 05:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by kimosABE View Post
I'm not saying I wholeheartedly endorse everything in this vid but it does bring up troubling questions.
No, of course you won't wholeheartedly endorse it ... that could be awkward later on. Out of curiosity, what are the troubling questions that it brings up? The misleading nature of the title is the very first thing about this video that troubles me.
     
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Sep 3, 2012, 06:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
No, of course you won't wholeheartedly endorse it ... that could be awkward later on. Out of curiosity, what are the troubling questions that it brings up? The misleading nature of the title is the very first thing about this video that troubles me.
Well, that was the troubling thing. You nailed it. The title.
     
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Sep 3, 2012, 06:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by kimosABE View Post
Well, that was the troubling thing. You nailed it. The title.
If the source is misleading straight from the title, how can anything that follows be trusted?
     
Mrjinglesusa  (op)
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Sep 3, 2012, 07:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by kimosABE View Post
OBAMA BANNED THIS VIDEO - GEE, I WONDER WHY!.flv
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-HqHSkYG-Y&sns=em
I'm not saying I wholeheartedly endorse everything in this vid but it does bring up troubling questions. And I figured you Obama loving MacNN'ers would easily be able to explain and/or refute some of the implications made in it.
Oh, and, changing subjects, FYI, actor Michael Clarke Duncan was 54.
Why try to explain/refute completely baseless, unsubstantiated allegations and conspiracy theories?

If the President is some foreigner with multiple social security numbers who went by another name for much of his life, where's the proof?

So now, instead of just the "born in Kenya" conspiracy, we have the born in Kenya, is a citizen of Indonesia, went by an alias, didn't go to the schools he said he did, is using a fraudulent S.S. number, and is a radical socialist/communist out to destroy America conspiracy?

You Obama haters are HILARIOUS.

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Sep 3, 2012, 10:46 PM
 
and yet, fiscally he hasn't done f***-all to change anything, except for the 1/2 of the HRB that is actually beneficial. Hell, I just want him to fulfill his promise to dismantle the Patriot Act and he can't even work that out. He wails about financial equality, but doesn't really do anything. He wouldn't either, otherwise he'll end up biting the hands that feed him. Namely all those billionaires who also talk about supporting some sort of change but never actually do anything either. Of course the super rich would rather moan and groan about how the government isn't taking their money, it's cheaper than getting out their checkbooks. In the end, it takes the targets off their backs and makes them look heroic. The fact is, as long as the proles hear the talk, they're placated and feel that someone cares about them. Obama maximizes this by spending more time on TV than the last 3 Presidents, combined.

He talks about a glorious world to come, everyone being rewarded, except for the wicked wealthy people. Then he rakes in huge amounts of cash from donations. Obama is, quite literally, the most successful TV evangelist of our time.

Now, instead of getting all red-faced and pissed off at me, just calm down and think about it objectively for a few minutes. I'm right, you simply don't want to accept it. Admit it, most liberals have bought into all the bullshit hook, line, and sinker, haven't they?
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kimosABE
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Sep 4, 2012, 01:20 AM
 
Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa View Post
Why try to explain/refute completely baseless, unsubstantiated allegations and conspiracy theories?
If the President is some foreigner with multiple social security numbers who went by another name for much of his life, where's the proof?
So now, instead of just the "born in Kenya" conspiracy, we have the born in Kenya, is a citizen of Indonesia, went by an alias, didn't go to the schools he said he did, is using a fraudulent S.S. number, and is a radical socialist/communist out to destroy America conspiracy?
You Obama haters are HILARIOUS.
But those aren't all allegations, there are questions.

QUESTIONS.

Whenever Obama or his staff run into questions that might politically hurt him they try to say it's unfair or baseless or without proof or some such nonsense.

But, that's okay, Mrjinglesusa, Obama is a loser in November. Just as he made America the loser these past 3+ years.
     
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Sep 4, 2012, 01:49 AM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
If the source is misleading straight from the title, how can anything that follows be trusted?
Oh, so that means no one should believe anything the Obama campaign says because of the lies they've told about Romney?

According to them Romney is supposedly, TOO rich, TOO uncaring and TOO out of touch with the common man.

And we all know that's a lie based on what we saw at the RNC.

We know you were watching it on C-span because MSNBC made a point of cutting away from the women speakers and the Black speakers and those who'd suffered greatly and were ministered to by Mitt and who gave moving testimony to his character.
     
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Sep 4, 2012, 01:50 AM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
and yet, fiscally he hasn't done f***-all to change anything, except for the 1/2 of the HRB that is actually beneficial. Hell, I just want him to fulfill his promise to dismantle the Patriot Act and he can't even work that out. He wails about financial equality, but doesn't really do anything. He wouldn't either, otherwise he'll end up biting the hands that feed him. Namely all those billionaires who also talk about supporting some sort of change but never actually do anything either. Of course the super rich would rather moan and groan about how the government isn't taking their money, it's cheaper than getting out their checkbooks. In the end, it takes the targets off their backs and makes them look heroic. The fact is, as long as the proles hear the talk, they're placated and feel that someone cares about them. Obama maximizes this by spending more time on TV than the last 3 Presidents, combined.
He talks about a glorious world to come, everyone being rewarded, except for the wicked wealthy people. Then he rakes in huge amounts of cash from donations. Obama is, quite literally, the most successful TV evangelist of our time.
Now, instead of getting all red-faced and pissed off at me, just calm down and think about it objectively for a few minutes. I'm right, you simply don't want to accept it. Admit it, most liberals have bought into all the bullshit hook, line, and sinker, haven't they?
Great post!
     
BadKosh
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Sep 4, 2012, 03:14 AM
 
We're gonna VOMIT as Owe-bama continues to characterize "FAIRNESS" as rich and successful people being shamed into paying not only more than a 'fair share' of fed taxes but more in real money than many lesser producers and takers. Listening to Maryland Gov. "Martin O' Money" blame Bush after 4 years of wasteful stupid spending mirroring the wasteful ever increasing Maryland taxes that has MD in the financial hole for a few billion and with people are leaving his state and taking their small business with them. None of them have any ideas on how to shrink their budgets and control spending. perhaps they are too stupid? perhaps that is a character flaw in liberals?
     
kimosABE
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Sep 4, 2012, 03:46 AM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
We're gonna VOMIT as Owe-bama continues to characterize "FAIRNESS" as rich and successful people being shamed into paying not only more than a 'fair share' of fed taxes but more in real money than many lesser producers and takers. Listening to Maryland Gov. "Martin O' Money" blame Bush after 4 years of wasteful stupid spending mirroring the wasteful ever increasing Maryland taxes that has MD in the financial hole for a few billion and with people are leaving his state and taking their small business with them. None of them have any ideas on how to shrink their budgets and control spending. perhaps they are too stupid? perhaps that is a character flaw in liberals?
Liberals are like the females and Conservatives are like the males in our society.

The females are unable to see things beyond their emotions.
     
Wiskedjak
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Sep 4, 2012, 04:17 AM
 
Originally Posted by kimosABE View Post
Oh, so that means no one should believe anything the Obama campaign says
Obama IS a politician. You should take everything said by any politician with a huge grain of salt, particularly when they're campaigning against another politician. That includes anything you heard at the RNC.

Originally Posted by kimosABE View Post
And we all know that's a lie based on what we saw at the RNC.
     
ShortcutToMoncton
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Sep 4, 2012, 04:19 AM
 
Originally Posted by kimosABE View Post
Liberals are like the females and Conservatives are like the males in our society.

The females are unable to see things beyond their emotions.
Oh....well-played.


*popcorn gif*
Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid.
     
besson3c
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Sep 4, 2012, 05:18 AM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post


Oh....well-played.
*popcorn gif*
No better strategy to getting Romney elected than insulting half the population!
     
The Final Dakar
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Sep 4, 2012, 09:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Instead of telling BP to go **** themselves, he provided them cover.
I think this is an interesting point. I can see both sides of the equation. I wanted BPs blood (i'll settle for it now). I can't fathom what appropriate legal action is, but I think it'd be fun to ban or revoke them from gulf drilling and award their contracts to their competitors.

That said I know what the blowback would be. If Obama had punished BP it would be pointed to by the right as more proof that Obama is hostile to business and why he sucks and gas prices are high. With that kind of perspective, the whole damn thing looks like a lose/lose situation.
     
The Final Dakar
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Sep 4, 2012, 10:06 AM
 
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
[*] 100.6% increase in gas prices.
Me thinks some selective stat quoting is occurring here. (A google search of average US gas prices over 5 years points to "Yup")


  • 35% increase in those using food stamps.
  • 9.5% increase in the number of those living in poverty.
  • 20+% increase in the number of unemployeds and a 146% increase in longterm unemployment.
  • National debt up 34% from $10.6 trillion to over $14 trillion
I love these reasons. I swear if I gave this bullet point list in a vacuum and asked "What's the cause?" people would probably answer "The recession" not "The President." I don't know what miracle you think he should have pulled for the worst recession since the 30s, or how a President McCain would have done better, but I do know that businesses seem to be fine and we've been adding jobs since early in his term.



The rest of your stuff actually some meat to it, so I'm not going to parse what I think is legitimate and what isn't. I just found the above to be laughably cynical or deluded.
     
subego
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Sep 4, 2012, 12:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
I think this is an interesting point. I can see both sides of the equation. I wanted BPs blood (i'll settle for it now). I can't fathom what appropriate legal action is, but I think it'd be fun to ban or revoke them from gulf drilling and award their contracts to their competitors.
That said I know what the blowback would be. If Obama had punished BP it would be pointed to by the right as more proof that Obama is hostile to business and why he sucks and gas prices are high. With that kind of perspective, the whole damn thing looks like a lose/lose situation.
To me there's a moral imperative involved which trumps politics.

It's not about punishing BP, it's about letting the free market do what it's supposed to do with the companies who have risk management policies bordering on criminal.
     
Mrjinglesusa  (op)
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Sep 4, 2012, 02:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by kimosABE View Post
But those aren't all allegations, there are questions.
QUESTIONS.
Whenever Obama or his staff run into questions that might politically hurt him they try to say it's unfair or baseless or without proof or some such nonsense.
But, that's okay, Mrjinglesusa, Obama is a loser in November. Just as he made America the loser these past 3+ years.
Are we still on the verge of a depression as we were coming off 8 years of the Bush administration? Didn't think so.
2.3GHz i7 15" Retina Macbook Pro (Late 2013)
     
ebuddy
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Sep 4, 2012, 03:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
Oh....well-played.
*popcorn gif*
ebuddy
     
ebuddy
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Sep 4, 2012, 04:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Me thinks some selective stat quoting is occurring here. (A google search of average US gas prices over 5 years points to "Yup")
Selective stat quoting? The avg cost of a gallon of gasoline when Obama took office in January of 2009 was $1.79/gallon. It's what, $3.82 now right? You want me to apologize for being low? CNN cites an 83% increase in gas prices as of December 2011 @ $3.29/gallon. This is a fairly straight forward means of figuring a percentage increase right? What are you googling?

I love these reasons. I swear if I gave this bullet point list in a vacuum and asked "What's the cause?" people would probably answer "The recession" not "The President."
Of course not, but we're not in a vacuum. The economy is one of the most important challenges our leadership faces. Our leadership generally shapes the policies and the tone of the debate that produces either a net-positive impact or negative impact on the economy. In this, you're correct though; people will be sitting at their dining room tables day after day in the vacuum of the daily grind, bemoaning recession every step of the way, until you put a ballot in front of them. Two years after that it will be Congress.

I don't know what miracle you think he should have pulled for the worst recession since the 30s, or how a President McCain would have done better, but I do know that businesses seem to be fine and we've been adding jobs since early in his term.

The rest of your stuff actually some meat to it, so I'm not going to parse what I think is legitimate and what isn't. I just found the above to be laughably cynical or deluded.
What can I say Dakar, our perspectives here are just completely different. Businesses have liquidity yes, but the market is not fine and people are holding. There is a certain amount of growth necessary just to remain at baseline to account for population growth and other factors. If you have growth, but not enough to maintain a solid baseline, you're barely apace with the factors that necessitate growth. Economists and policy-wonks of another perspective refer to this growth as anemic and reiterate that it's also the slowest recovery in US history. I believe the policies and the leadership of this Administration have had a net-negative impact on the economy. We just disagree.

eesh... I'll try to acknowledge your standards of cynicism and delusion before I dare contribute to another thread.
ebuddy
     
kimosABE
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Sep 4, 2012, 05:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa View Post
Are we still on the verge of a depression as we were coming off 8 years of the Bush administration? Didn't think so.
Do you know Obama's decision to remove the mandatory work requirements from the welfare program was illegal?

The law was written so ANY attempt to do what Obama has just done would be prohibited by law. But this preaident just does as he pleases, like a dictator.

Do you know that Obama has racked up deficits of ONE TRILLION DOLLARS A YEAR every year since he's been in office?

When Obama took office, soon afterwards he said if unemployment rose above 8% he conceded he'd be looking at a "one-term proposition."

Well, it's been 43 months in a row and unemployment hasn't dipped BELOW 8% in that time!

He 'bailed out' General Motors rather than letting it go through the bankruptcy process recommended by Mitt Romney. But, that process doesn't mean the company would go belly up. No, instead, bankruptcy allows a business to restructure itself so that it can have a better chance at making itself successful.

Romney knows this. That's why he favored that prescription for GM's woes.

Funny thing, under Obama, GM went through that same restructuring which Romney favored. So, the end reault was the same as what Mitt prescribed.

Except for this, Obama 'gave' the labor unions ownership of the company so he could buy the votes of the auto workers.

And one more thing...OBAMA'S PROCESS COST TAXPAYERS AN ADDITIONAL $3 BILLION,

How can anyone support this guy???
     
 
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