[mattyb]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Not surprising. Although the experience isn't as polished, the lower cost of entry is attractive.

Now Android is both better, and cheaper. AND you can get apps from more than one app store. THATS why people are switching.

Denial and insults don't change reality.

[subego]

As a devoted Apple fanboi, once the N7 came out, I became interested.

The only reason I haven't picked one up is Apple ecosystem lock-in.

That said, I'm very happy with my Apple experience so far.

[mattyb]

The N7 is orgasmic. N4 arriving soon.

Tf101 is also a wonderful piece of hardware.

OS X + Android = win, and freedom.

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by mattyb 

Denial and insults don't change reality.

They do for some people around here, believe me.

I'll be sticking with Android for the foreseeable future. I would have liked to see more done with WebOS, though. I use it on my HP Touchpad, and it's pretty great. There's just a serious lack of apps due to the fact that the OS isn't being supported or distributed anymore.

[Hawkeye_a]

I dont have a problem with any of the Apple devices i own, they function exactly as advertized, and i appretiate the fact that Apple is the gatekeeper to keep the crap and malware out (saves me from wasting brainpower and time myself).

My only issue, as mentioned before, is with the interface. Apple used to lead in the human-interface-guideline are...heck they wrote the book on it. But after using WebOS i had to begrudgingly concede that Palm did a much better(and original; as in not copy iOS) job with it.

Android, I will avoid like the plague. It's the Windows 95 of mobile operating systems. Just looking at an Android screen puts me off.... nothing feels organic, it all looks like the surface of the deathstar(sharp corners, color saturation all off, different fonts and text sizes, kinda aliased text). Looks like a product by geeks for geeks, without any spit-n-polish. (The opposite of WebOS )

[Phileas]

Originally Posted by subego 

As a devoted Apple fanboi, once the N7 came out, I became interested.

The only reason I haven't picked one up is Apple ecosystem lock-in.

They actually play remarkable nicely with each other. My data is shared across iOS and Android devices alike, with little in the way of hiccups. I don't think I've spent more than $40 on Android apps either.

Any.do for task management across all platforms
iCal for calendars, apple contacts for contact management synced across to Android
Gmail for mail
Chrome synchs everything, everywhere
Music is on both the Apple and the google cloud, automatically
Files live on Dropbox (work) and google drive (home)
Social apps have arrived at feature parity

The biggest difference for me is that my iPad is a creation device. I find it comfortable to type on, I use it for sketches, wire framing, building presentations, writing.

My Nexus 7, as much as I like it, is purely a consumption device, with the exception of the occasional email . The screen is just too small for anything else.

I strap my N7 to my notebook, I still use pen and paper for taking notes, with one of these: http://cleverhands.net
That way I've got my analog tools and my N7 all together.

[Phileas]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

.... nothing feels organic, it all looks like the surface of the deathstar(sharp corners, color saturation all off, different fonts and text sizes, kinda aliased text). Looks like a product by geeks for geeks, without any spit-n-polish. (The opposite of WebOS )

See, that's where customization comes in. Don't like it? Change it. As a long time iOS user this took me forever to understand, because it goes against everything iOS stands for.

Android can look fantastic, far better, slicker and more modern than iOS. Sure, out of the box it still looks shit, but all it takes is the installation of a launcher (one click) and the activation of a custom icon set. (Another click).

This is what the homescreen on my N7 looks like. A lot slicker than the equivalent on the iPad.
Top row: Battery charge (42%), current weather and time.
Then, apps arranged in a custom patterns. Want to rearrange icons? Press, hold, move. Simple.
Secondary apps are in folders, stored in a dock that's invoked by the "home" button.

[subego]

Originally Posted by Phileas 

They actually play remarkable nicely with each other...

Sadly, not that kind of lock-in.

It's the effort to move things over, and the fact I already have hardware which covers that niche.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by mattyb 

Now Android is both better, and cheaper. AND you can get apps from more than one app store. THATS why people are switching.

Denial and insults don't change reality.

It isn't "better", I run both platforms a lot, they each have strengths. Cheaper is relative, I hate all the ads and pay for Android apps just to get rid of them all.

When did I insult someone?

[Phileas]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

I hate all the ads and pay for Android apps

I do the same. Can't stand ads in apps.

[subego]

It didn't occur to me (because it's niche), but as may be obvious, I'm crazy excited about camera technology. I got out of the business for awhile right when the first RED camera was released, and was kinda sad (actually, a lot sad) this sea change was going to pass me by.

Well, I'm back in, and it's frigging unbelievable. You can shoot film quality footage on a camera which costs a couple thousand dollars. A film camera costs as much as a house. It does now, and it did then.

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by Phileas 

See, that's where customization comes in. Don't like it? Change it. As a long time iOS user this took me forever to understand, because it goes against everything iOS stands for.

Android can look fantastic, far better, slicker and more modern than iOS. Sure, out of the box it still looks shit, but all it takes is the installation of a launcher (one click) and the activation of a custom icon set. (Another click).

This is what the homescreen on my N7 looks like. A lot slicker than the equivalent on the iPad.
Top row: Battery charge (42%), current weather and time.
Then, apps arranged in a custom patterns. Want to rearrange icons? Press, hold, move. Simple.
Secondary apps are in folders, stored in a dock that's invoked by the "home" button.

I personally don't care for too much customization on mobile devices. Simplicity and ease of use trump customization for me. Don't get me wrong, i'm glad theres a product that fits your wants, but i dont even like that screenshot you provided. And i dont want to spend time(hours, days, weeks) to get an interface to look like it *should*.

Skins and themes are very low down on my list of requirements/priorities on mobile devices. If a company cannot put the effort in to create a coherent experience and leaves it up to its customers to fiddle around with, and they cannot secure the OS with inherently bad policies and procedures(lack of a vetting process), I cannot justify buying...especially when better(subjective) alternatives exist.

[subego]

I think some people don't realize taking advantage of all the options Android gives you is a hobby.

If I like working on cars a lot, I'd get a way different car than if I didn't.

It could still be a cool car. Very cool. Way cooler than the car for someone who's into "turn the key and go" even.

Is that the best car?

[Spheric Harlot]

Obviously, a 1973 Alfa GT 1300 junior is the Best Car.

[subego]

What's that Toyota which is impossible to kill?

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

I personally don't care for too much customization on mobile devices. Simplicity and ease of use trump customization for me. Don't get me wrong, i'm glad theres a product that fits your wants, but i dont even like that screenshot you provided. And i dont want to spend time(hours, days, weeks) to get an interface to look like it *should*.

Skins and themes are very low down on my list of requirements/priorities on mobile devices. If a company cannot put the effort in to create a coherent experience and leaves it up to its customers to fiddle around with, and they cannot secure the OS with inherently bad policies and procedures(lack of a vetting process), I cannot justify buying...especially when better(subjective) alternatives exist.

I agree. I'm not much for customization. Just a time waster.

Personally, that screenshot of the customized homescreen of the N7 is fugly. Grey icons on a black background? Hard to see them.

[subego]

Hard to see?

I immediately noticed he has Pintrest on his home page.

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by freudling 

I agree. I'm not much for customization. Just a time waster.

Personally, that screenshot of the customized homescreen of the N7 is fugly. Grey icons on a black background? Hard to see them.

So don't use that color combination? You're fixated on one aspect of Phileas's screenshot that just emphasizes his point - it's customizable. You can use whatever colors, icons, and features you want.

Two completely different Android devices, both with almost untouched Android (my Transformer includes some extra settings and features to take advantage of the hardware keyboard and some other stuff).

My phone home screen, which lets me see the weather (and I can tap to see a five-day forecast and detailed weather info) and update Facebook directly from my home screen. Application icons are all part of a custom icon set to better match my truly adorable wallpaper.



My phone lockscreen, which shows the weather without having to do anything but hit the power button to turn on the screen.



And the notifications widget addon that comes with Cyanogenmod, which lets me toggle everything without having to go into settings.



And very different is my tablet, which has a nice display and therefore lots of room for widgets and the like. My launcher is specifically designed for tablets and high-resolution displays. I can resize any of the widgets completely arbitrarily to my liking. The IM+ widget lets me change my status with a single click.



Lastly, some widgets that take good advantage of the high-res display. I can see my FB feed and my mailbox with a swipe. Tapping an email opens it up in the Gmail app; tapping a FB post lets me comment on it, like it, etc.



You can't do any of this with iOS unless you jailbreak it. Incidentally, my tablet isn't rooted (stupid me installed an OTA update that broke root, and I haven't gotten around to rerooting), so I took those screenshots with a VNC application that lets me VNC into my tablet. Without root. It's even available on the Android Market.

Also, to illustrate the usefulness of the file browsing ability, Antek Explorer:



This file browser can access any part of Android if the device is rooted. If not, it can access any writeable portion of the filesystem, attached external storage (MicroSD, thumb drives), as well as network shares with built-in SMB and NFS support. It also has built in support for Dropbox, Box.net, SkyDrive, and Google Drive, and it can function as its own HTTP file server to easily transfer files wirelessly to anyone.

[Phileas]

Originally Posted by freudling 

I agree. I'm not much for customization. Just a time waster.

Personally, that screenshot of the customized homescreen of the N7 is fugly. Grey icons on a black background? Hard to see them.

White icons on a dark grey background. Actually, the linen structure from an iPad.

Again, if you don't like it, change it. I enjoy tinkering with a tablet. If you don't, get something else. It's a free country.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

So don't use that color combination? You're fixated on one aspect of Phileas's screenshot that just emphasizes his point - it's customizable. You can use whatever colors, icons, and features you want.

Two completely different Android devices, both with almost untouched Android (my Transformer includes some extra settings and features to take advantage of the hardware keyboard and some other stuff).

My phone home screen, which lets me see the weather (and I can tap to see a five-day forecast and detailed weather info) and update Facebook directly from my home screen. Application icons are all part of a custom icon set to better match my truly adorable wallpaper.



My phone lockscreen, which shows the weather without having to do anything but hit the power button to turn on the screen.



And the notifications widget addon that comes with Cyanogenmod, which lets me toggle everything without having to go into settings.



And very different is my tablet, which has a nice display and therefore lots of room for widgets and the like. My launcher is specifically designed for tablets and high-resolution displays. I can resize any of the widgets completely arbitrarily to my liking. The IM+ widget lets me change my status with a single click.



Lastly, some widgets that take good advantage of the high-res display. I can see my FB feed and my mailbox with a swipe. Tapping an email opens it up in the Gmail app; tapping a FB post lets me comment on it, like it, etc.



You can't do any of this with iOS unless you jailbreak it. Incidentally, my tablet isn't rooted (stupid me installed an OTA update that broke root, and I haven't gotten around to rerooting), so I took those screenshots with a VNC application that lets me VNC into my tablet. Without root. It's even available on the Android Market.

Also, to illustrate the usefulness of the file browsing ability, Antek Explorer:



This file browser can access any part of Android if the device is rooted. If not, it can access any writeable portion of the filesystem, attached external storage (MicroSD, thumb drives), as well as network shares with built-in SMB and NFS support. It also has built in support for Dropbox, Box.net, SkyDrive, and Google Drive, and it can function as its own HTTP file server to easily transfer files wirelessly to anyone.

"I'm not much for customization. Just a time waster." Keep calm and carry on.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Phileas 

White icons on a dark grey background. Actually, the linen structure from an iPad.

Again, if you don't like it, change it. I enjoy tinkering with a tablet. If you don't, get something else. It's a free country.

Those icons are not white...

Anyway, I have no problem with anyone customizing Android. I just don't give a crap about the ability to do it. I wonder what the data shows? Is customization one of the reasons people double down on Android, aside from price which is well documented?

Does anyone know?

[shifuimam]

I'd imagine another part of it is the variety of hardware. You can get a device with a hardware keyboard if you want. You can get something like the Samsung Note, which has a real stylus (not that spongy crap that just lets you use your phone when you're wearing gloves). You can get a huge screen, a small screen, or something in between.

Customization is part of it, and it's pretty appealing to a lot of people. My point in my above post was that you were focusing not just on customization in general, but on one single person's example of customization. Sure, you don't like that combo, but it's not the only combo available.

When iOS introduced the ability to group apps on the home screen, did you make use of it? What about when it introduced the ability to customize the home screen wallpaper/background? Both of those are very basic customization options that have been available in Android since its inception, where as iOS didn't come up with that stuff until much more recently.

I think it's also worth pointing out that some of the more functional widgets - like a quick overview of your inbox or calendar - are not just pretty customizations. They're very utilitarian. Being able to see at a glance what your latest emails and upcoming meetings are is very useful for a lot of people.

I'd say another reason why people are drawn to Android comes back to the original topic - excitement. iOS is boring. Very little has changed in the past three years. There have been a few changes on the surface, but overall it's the same old thing warmed over. Android offers something fresh to someone who's using it for the first time. To someone who's been using it for several years, ICS and JB are compelling enough that people are upgrading to new Android devices, not switching to iOS. If iOS only does a fraction of the things their existing but aging Android phone can do, why would they switch?

[Shaddim]

I'll tinker with tablets, so Android is great on those, but my phone is my phone and I've not found anything else that's more reliable than an iPhone.

[iMOTOR]

Originally Posted by subego 

A film camera costs as much as a house. It does now, and it did then.

A new one does, but I've seen recently serviced BL3s on eBay in the 5k range.

[subego]

That would scare the shit out of me on a long project.

[Phileas]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

I think it's also worth pointing out that some of the more functional widgets - like a quick overview of your inbox or calendar - are not just pretty customizations. They're very utilitarian. Being able to see at a glance what your latest emails and upcoming meetings are is very useful for a lot of people

This. The customization is fun, but what made me switch was the functionality.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

Yeah I should have clarified - I wasn't just referring to apps. Music, movies, books, TV shows, and any other content on iTunes are enormous money makers for Apple. Apps are just one part of it.

You're right about that, the media part of the iTunes Store has become a significant part of Apple's business.

However, I don't think this has anything to do with Apple's insistence that navigating a filesystem should be a thing of the past. My second-gen iPod did mount as an external harddrive, but the music files were hidden by default.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by Phileas 

Android can look fantastic, far better, slicker and more modern than iOS. Sure, out of the box it still looks shit, but all it takes is the installation of a launcher (one click) and the activation of a custom icon set. (Another click).

Your screenshot indeed looks classy. But why not make that the Android experience out of the box?

[Phileas]

Because customers like Freudling will go: "OMG, butt-ugly, lol". Easier to release a middle of the road version, then let the user decide.

But seriously, stock Android is beginning to look much better than it used to. Google made a mistake by allowing Android to be modded any which way by manufacturers and carriers alike. As a result we now have a terrible mishmash of skins and bloatware and there is no unified experience like in iOS or even Windows 8.

The Nexus line of phones is an attempt to pull back from there. Create a high specced, unlocked phone at an unbeatable price and release it into the market with the promise of forward compatibility, while at the same time allowing users to make the experience truly theirs.

Look at my phone and Shifs. Same OS, yet both set up to do what each of us needs it to do.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by Phileas 

Because customers like Freudling will go: "OMG, butt-ugly, lol". Easier to release a middle of the road version, then let the user decide.

To me, iOS is a middle-of-the-road when it comes to design. The default system font, Helvetica Neue, for instance, is a very »boring« font with »decidedly little character«. I use quotation marks, because you could interpret this choice in a more positive way: Helvetica Neue gives center stage to content and works with a large variety of content without coloring it too strongly.

What is more interesting than stock-iOS is the type of apps that are built on top. Here, apps like Fantastical and The Magazine (by Marco Arment) come to mind which have a distinct personality.

Originally Posted by Phileas 

Look at my phone and Shifs. Same OS, yet both set up to do what each of us needs it to do.

Yeah, exactly. I'd much rather have you design the stock Android settings than whoever is working for Samsung or so. Most of these people have no sense of taste or seem to care enough to make nice and tasteful presets.

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by Phileas 

Look at my phone and Shifs. Same OS, yet both set up to do what each of us needs it to do.

Mine has a lot more pink. Makes it run faster. And cuter.

Also: with a number of current-gen phones, it's surprisingly easy to root them and/or reflash them with a custom ROM. I went to look at the Galaxy S3 today and, before leaving, double-checked that I could put Cyanogenmod on it. Sure enough, I can. Not only that, but Samsung provided an incredibly easy way of flashing a custom bootloader and ROM onto the device.

This would be another reason why Samsung has picked up such a huge market share. The custom ROM they provide is dumbed down for new users who are technologically challenged, but they've also made it extraordinarily easy for geeks and hacker types to put whatever ROM they want on their phone.

FWIW: Cyanogenmod is my absolute favorite ROM, because it is stock, untainted Android aside from some additional settings and a few UI things, like the notification bar widget stuff. It lets you start from scratch and do whatever you want.

[mattyb]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

FWIW: Cyanogenmod is my absolute favorite ROM, because it is stock, untainted Android aside from some additional settings and a few UI things, like the notification bar widget stuff. It lets you start from scratch and do whatever you want.

Like the Nexus 4 then?

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

I'd say another reason why people are drawn to Android comes back to the original topic - excitement. iOS is boring. ... Android offers something fresh to someone who's using it for the first time.

Honestly, in my experience, the only people who are really drawn to Android are nerds like us. People who don't care about smartphones tend to get an Android device, because that's what the sales person pushes on them. (Samsung outspends all other companies on this planet on marketing by a hefty margin ($12 billion last year, more than Apple, HP, Dell, Microsoft and Coca Cola combined), so the lion's share of that goes towards Samsung devices.) I only have one non-tech-savvy friend who went for an Android device, because »it's not an iPhone.« This jives with the web usage numbers that are floating around where iOS devices are responsible for a disproportionate share of the web traffic stemming from mobile devices.

[Spheric Harlot]

That, of course, presents the question of whether anybody other than nerds and geeks actually becomes "excited" about technology in the first place.

[Phileas]

The vast majority of Android phones never use even a fraction of their capabilities, correct. That's exactly why install numbers mean so little, what's important is behaviour and here iOS is head and shoulders above everybody else.

I think SH is correct. My parents, for example, could not care less about the OS, all they need is a simple phone that works, all of the time. They don't care about widgets, when they want to check the weather they listen to the radio. Their calendar hangs on the kitchen wall. It took them a year to install Skype on their laptop so they could chat with their grandchildren - now of course they love it.

I realize that part of my own excitement is due to the "OMG, new toy, shiny" effect. I could have happily used iOS for years to come, with little in the way of productivity loss. It's more of a "because it's there" scenario than anything else.

I might well get bored with it all soon and slink back into Apple's welcoming arms.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

That, of course, presents the question of whether anybody other than nerds and geeks actually becomes "excited" about technology in the first place.

To a degree, yes. Opening Christmas presents with her son who was on the other side of the globe using FaceTime on her new iPad was, for the lack of another word, magical. Average people can get excited if technology makes things accessible to them that they want and understand. Seeing their loved one who is far away is one of those things.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Phileas 

The vast majority of Android phones never use even a fraction of their capabilities, correct. That's exactly why install numbers mean so little, what's important is behaviour and here iOS is head and shoulders above everybody else.

I think SH is correct. My parents, for example, could not care less about the OS, all they need is a simple phone that works, all of the time. They don't care about widgets, when they want to check the weather they listen to the radio. Their calendar hangs on the kitchen wall. It took them a year to install Skype on their laptop so they could chat with their grandchildren - now of course they love it.

I realize that part of my own excitement is due to the "OMG, new toy, shiny" effect. I could have happily used iOS for years to come, with little in the way of productivity loss. It's more of a "because it's there" scenario than anything else.

I might well get bored with it all soon and slink back into Apple's welcoming arms.

The world of Android has changed... because of the SIII and the Note. It's devices like those that are reshaping Android and the Android user. If Samsung keeps innovating, they're going to sell gazillions more of these units. This is what Apple has to worry about, not the millions of other junk phones and junk customers.

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by mattyb 

Like the Nexus 4 then?

Indeed. Except that CM supports a wide range of hardware, so you can get whatever you want or can afford, and still have a vanilla ROM on it.

[Phileas]

Originally Posted by freudling 

The world of Android has changed... because of the SIII and the Note. It's devices like those that are reshaping Android and the Android user. If Samsung keeps innovating, they're going to sell gazillions more of these units. This is what Apple has to worry about, not the millions of other junk phones and junk customers.

Rumor has it that Samsung is working on their own OS at the moment, with a view of ditching Android.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Phileas 

Rumor has it that Samsung is working on their own OS at the moment, with a view of ditching Android.

So they want to give the #1 spot back to Apple. Interesting.

[Phileas]

Samsung is working on its own operating system - Los Angeles Gadgets | Examiner.com

Substantiated. This should be interesting.

Using Android is getting expensive, with substantial licensing fees paid to both Apple and MS.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Phileas 

Samsung is working on its own operating system - Los Angeles Gadgets | Examiner.com

Substantiated. This should be interesting.

Using Android is getting expensive, with substantial licensing fees paid to both Apple and MS.

Please tell me you don't believe most of what you read?

It's all junk rumors. Samsung's mobile OS sucks. It's a nice try. I just played with a Windows Phone based Samsung smartphone the other day. They're just experimenting. You won't see Samsung ditch Android as their main, not unless Android goes sideways quickly, which it isn't. It's just gotten stronger and stronger.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by Phileas 

Samsung is working on its own operating system - Los Angeles Gadgets | Examiner.com

I'm surprised it's not more universally known: Samsung is one of two main backers of Tizen, and it is rumored that Samsung is working of merging its own Bada OS with Tizen. While this is probably as chaotic as it sounds, I do think Samsung can use its own OS if it so chooses. However, common lore seems to be that Samsung's OS efforts are merely intended to keep Google in line (the tail wags the dog). Nevertheless, at least at the time of the aforementioned article, Bada had a higher market share than Windows Phone 7 which in itself is very surprising, because it certainly doesn't have the mindshare of Windows Phone 7.

I'm not so sure Samsung can pull off a successful OS platform, making good hardware seems to be way, way easier than making good software, let alone an OS ecosystem.

[Phileas]

Originally Posted by freudling 

You won't see Samsung ditch Android as their main, not unless Android goes sideways quickly, which it isn't. It's just gotten stronger and stronger.

Samsung is paying MS between $11 and $13 per Android device sold. Apple has demanded as much as $30 per phone. Android's weak point is not in the quality of the OS but in the patent licensing fees.

That's a powerful incentive to start developing your own OS and be done with the Apple/google catfight.

[shifuimam]

If we stopped patenting basic functionality in technology, I'm pretty sure things would have advanced a lot further by now, and everyone would be happier.

I'd be more excited about technology if the people at the top weren't such dicks about trying to prevent anyone from sharing their sandbox.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

If we stopped patenting basic functionality in technology, I'm pretty sure things would have advanced a lot further by now, and everyone would be happier.

That would be nice in a hippie-dippy-everybody-share-now-world. I suspect that in reality, a huge drive to developing new things is the possibility of making copious amounts of money with the odd one or two things out of a hundred you've tried.

I don't see this changing.

[mattyb]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

That would be nice in a hippie-dippy-everybody-share-now-world. I suspect that in reality, a huge drive to developing new things is the possibility of making copious amounts of money with the odd one or two things out of a hundred you've tried.

I don't see this changing.

Me neither.

I can't wait to see some very large Chinese company get sued. WTO? *** you.

[shifuimam]

Incidentally, Ubuntu is doing what Microsoft is doing - a unified OS for all devices. Just announced today.

Ubuntu For Tablets Next Step In Creating 'Unified Experience For All Personal Computing' - Forbes

ETA: Watch the video in that article. This looks freaking amazing - especially how it can run a phone UI app right next to a tablet app, simultaneously.

ETA2: This is exactly what I was talking about in an earlier post - your phone is the computer. Add a big touchscreen to it, and it converts into a tablet. Add a keyboard and mouse, and it converts into a desktop computer. This right here is technology to be excited about.

[mattyb]

I wish Shuttleworth good luck. Didn't Apple have a patent about slotting in a tablet to a home PC type thingy though?

[Phileas]

That was the old Apple notebook - the Duo 230.

My boss at the time had one of these. A dock on his desk where the notebook slid right in. It was the height of awesome.