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You are here: MacNN Forums > Software - Troubleshooting and Discussion > macOS > Welcome to the future. And it's not hfs+

Welcome to the future. And it's not hfs+
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Doc HM
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Mar 27, 2017, 05:13 PM
 
Well that was a surprise. On a point update Apple rolls out APFS based on BtrFS but with some ad ons!
That sounds fab. A modern file system!!

Seems they buried the part about it not reading disks created with OS's older than Yosemite! I can see that causing a few panics!
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And.reg
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Mar 27, 2017, 05:34 PM
 
So does this mean that if I wanted to, say, wipe macOS clean, I would have the option to start over with APFS?
Because I thought this was just for iOS 10.3.
     
Doc HM  (op)
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Mar 27, 2017, 05:44 PM
 
The new file system for macOS 10.12.4 is APFS. It's the only instal option you get so once you have either updated or clean installed with it then you'll be running an APFS disk and be unable to read any hfs+ volumes not created as CoreStorage logical volume groups.
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P
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Mar 27, 2017, 05:51 PM
 
APFS is not based on Btrfs, it is a brand new filesystem sharing some code with CoreStorage and some design principles with Btrfs, but it is not based on it. Btrfs is GPL and can not be included in the kernel.

And where did you see that macOS converts drives to APFS? IOS 10.3 does, but AFAIK, macOS does not support booting from APFS yet. And removing support for HFS+? Why?
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
And.reg
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Mar 27, 2017, 05:51 PM
 
That did not answer my question.

In Disk Utility, it says that my partition is formatted as

Mac OS Extended (Journaled, Encrypted)

it does not say APFS.

So, does this mean that my current partition is not already formatted as APFS? How do I know if I'm running APFS? And I don't need to wait until 10.13 in case if I wanted to, say, wipe macOS clean, I would have the option to start over with APFS?

Also, do I have to do the same to iOS 10.3, or did the update automatically convert my iPod's file layout to APFS as well in the upgrade?
     
CharlesS
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Mar 27, 2017, 05:53 PM
 
APFS doesn't show up as an option in Disk Utility's "Erase" tab, so I'd say probably not.

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Thorzdad
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Mar 27, 2017, 06:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doc HM View Post
Seems they buried the part about it not reading disks created with OS's older than Yosemite! I can see that causing a few panics!
No kidding. How would someone recover files in that case?
     
Doc HM  (op)
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Mar 27, 2017, 06:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by And.reg View Post
That did not answer my question.

In Disk Utility, it says that my partition is formatted as

Mac OS Extended (Journaled, Encrypted)

it does not say APFS.

So, does this mean that my current partition is not already formatted as APFS? How do I know if I'm running APFS? And I don't need to wait until 10.13 in case if I wanted to, say, wipe macOS clean, I would have the option to start over with APFS?

Also, do I have to do the same to iOS 10.3, or did the update automatically convert my iPod's file layout to APFS as well in the upgrade?
If you are running 10.12.4 you are running APFS. That's the only option. It doesn't seem to say specifically anywhere but it's the native file system for 10.12.4. I guess you can run an older installer and revert the drive back to hfs+ if you want to reinstall 10.12.3 but as far as I can see its APFS all the way in 10.12.4
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Doc HM  (op)
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Mar 27, 2017, 06:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by Thorzdad View Post
No kidding. How would someone recover files in that case?
with rather more difficulty that you would want I guess.
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And.reg
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Mar 27, 2017, 06:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doc HM View Post
If you are running 10.12.4 you are running APFS. That's the only option. It doesn't seem to say specifically anywhere
Then how do you know that?

I'm nitpicking because the rumor was APFS wasn't supposed to come out until 10.13, and Time Machine backups didn't work with APFS, and neither did FireVault. But I can use all of these, so how do you know they fixed them all, and where is the official report that 10.12.4 runs exclusively on APFS and not MacOS Extended?
     
P
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Mar 27, 2017, 07:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by Thorzdad View Post
No kidding. How would someone recover files in that case?
If it ever comes to this:

https://osxfuse.github.io
https://github.com/0x09/hfsfuse

But I very much doubt it. It took over a decade from the release of HFS+ for Apple to deprecate writing to HFS, and they still allow reading from it. From 10.12 there is a warning that this is now unsupported, but that is 19 long years after HFS+ replaced it.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
CharlesS
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Mar 27, 2017, 07:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doc HM View Post
If you are running 10.12.4 you are running APFS. That's the only option. It doesn't seem to say specifically anywhere but it's the native file system for 10.12.4. I guess you can run an older installer and revert the drive back to hfs+ if you want to reinstall 10.12.3 but as far as I can see its APFS all the way in 10.12.4
This does not appear to be true:

( Last edited by CharlesS; Mar 27, 2017 at 07:30 PM. )

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Spheric Harlot
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Mar 28, 2017, 02:35 AM
 
Originally Posted by Doc HM View Post
If you are running 10.12.4 you are running APFS. That's the only option. It doesn't seem to say specifically anywhere but it's the native file system for 10.12.4. I guess you can run an older installer and revert the drive back to hfs+ if you want to reinstall 10.12.3 but as far as I can see its APFS all the way in 10.12.4
My internal SSD on this late 2016 Touch Bar 15" MBP is still "Journaled HFS+".

I'm running 10.12.4.
     
Doc HM  (op)
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Mar 28, 2017, 09:48 AM
 
Seems the couple of sites I grazed over got that bit wrong. Hopefully the reading hfs+ disks will be wrong as well.
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CharlesS
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Mar 28, 2017, 03:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doc HM View Post
Seems the couple of sites I grazed over got that bit wrong. Hopefully the reading hfs+ disks will be wrong as well.
macOS can still read (albeit not write) HFS, a format which was obsolete almost twenty years ago. I wouldn't worry too much about that.

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