|
|
Johnson/Weld - Why the hell not? (Page 2)
|
|
|
|
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status:
Offline
|
|
Yes, but the media also had him dead to rights on live tv.
But I respect him flat out asking what it was rather than just trying to bullshit his way through.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: May 2001
Status:
Offline
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status:
Offline
|
|
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar
Yes, but the media also had him dead to rights on live tv.
I still don't think he rises to the level of running a disinformation campaign about his hand size, or graduating from the school of what "is" is.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: inside 128, north of 90
Status:
Offline
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status:
Offline
|
|
This just reinforces that he's crazy.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status:
Offline
|
|
Listening to another interview, he advocates getting rid of the income and corporate tax and replacing it with a consumption tax.
My memory is hazy but I think that's pretty much what Ted Cruz was advocating in the primaries.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status:
Offline
|
|
The corporate tax ultimately is a consumption tax. Companies pay for it by charging the consumer.
It makes sense from a simplicity standpoint to cut out the middleman, problem is corporate tax is a Pandora's box it's very difficult to jam closed. There would be a long, long period of corporations pocketing as much of the windfall as they can.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status:
Offline
|
|
Originally Posted by subego
The corporate tax ultimately is a consumption tax. Companies pay for it by charging the consumer.
It makes sense from a simplicity standpoint to cut out the middleman, problem is corporate tax is a Pandora's box it's very difficult to jam closed. There would be a long, long period of corporations pocketing as much of the windfall as they can.
Well, you are a libertarian
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Status:
Offline
|
|
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar
Listening to another interview, he advocates getting rid of the income and corporate tax and replacing it with a consumption tax.
My memory is hazy but I think that's pretty much what Ted Cruz was advocating in the primaries.
www.fairtax.org
|
45/47
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: May 2001
Status:
Offline
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status:
Offline
|
|
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar
Well, you are a libertarian
I'm philosophically a Libertarian, but as I implied in an earlier post, I don't feel the need to assert my ideological purity at the cost of ignoring reality.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status:
Offline
|
|
Originally Posted by OAW
I disagree with the rules here that you need 15% in the polls to be invited. You get to 15% by being known, but it is hard to become known if you're not invited to an event like this.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: May 2001
Status:
Offline
|
|
Originally Posted by besson3c
I disagree with the rules here that you need 15% in the polls to be invited. You get to 15% by being known, but it is hard to become known if you're not invited to an event like this.
I see your point. But OTOH unless there is some reasonable threshold how do you prevent "Deez Nuts" from being on the presidential debate stage as well? The line has to be drawn somewhere.
OAW
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status:
Offline
|
|
Originally Posted by OAW
I see your point. But OTOH unless there is some reasonable threshold how do you prevent "Deez Nuts" from being on the presidential debate stage as well? The line has to be drawn somewhere.
OAW
How would you draw the line?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: May 2001
Status:
Offline
|
|
Any candidate over X% in the polls OR the nominee of a political party which on enough state ballots to possibly win the presidency in the electoral college. IOW not necessarily all 50 states. Just enough to conceivably win.
OAW
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: inside 128, north of 90
Status:
Offline
|
|
Being on the ballot in 2/3 states?
But then you risk Vernon Supreme being in the debates, I suppose.
Gary is on 50.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Shaddim's sock drawer
Status:
Offline
|
|
Originally Posted by andi*pandi
Being on the ballot in 2/3 states?
But then you risk Vernon Supreme being in the debates, I suppose.
As entertaining as that would be, he's hilarious, the lack of substance in this election is bad enough as it is.
|
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: May 2001
Status:
Offline
|
|
Originally Posted by andi*pandi
Being on the ballot in 2/3 states?
But then you risk Vernon Supreme being in the debates, I suppose.
Gary is on 50.
And therein lies the rub. If philosophically one has a problem with the two-party system there has to be a mechanism to allow other parties into the game. But the million dollar question is how do you do that without screwing the pooch and having nutjobs like this on the stage? Perhaps it's combination of the two factors I mentioned above?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status:
Offline
|
|
My spidey senses tell me if being on the ballot is the bar, state legislatures will immediately double the number of signatures required, or other shenanigans in that vein.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status:
Offline
|
|
Originally Posted by OAW
And therein lies the rub. If philosophically one has a problem with the two-party system there has to be a mechanism to allow other parties into the game. But the million dollar question is how do you do that without screwing the pooch and having nutjobs like this on the stage? Perhaps it's combination of the two factors I mentioned above?
Maybe this will sort itself out when third parties aren't such an attention getting novelty?
This country needs more than two parties.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status:
Offline
|
|
I agree, but it seems like we're stuck with it. The people who are most well equipped to address the problem are the prime beneficiaries of the status quo.
The only bright spot is one of the parties imploding every now and again has so far been the historical norm. We're actually kind of overdue.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: May 2001
Status:
Offline
|
|
The problem is the two party system is codified into law. Democrats and Republicans are on the ballot BY DEFAULT for the most part. Everybody else has to QUALIFY.
OAW
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status:
Offline
|
|
Originally Posted by OAW
And therein lies the rub. If philosophically one has a problem with the two-party system there has to be a mechanism to allow other parties into the game. But the million dollar question is how do you do that without screwing the pooch and having nutjobs like this on the stage? Perhaps it's combination of the two factors I mentioned above?
Change the voting system. I really think that that is the only way to do it. Australian rules, instant runoff voting even seems to fit into the current system IMO.
|
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Status:
Offline
|
|
Originally Posted by subego
My spidey senses tell me if being on the ballot is the bar, state legislatures will immediately double the number of signatures required, or other shenanigans in that vein.
If I remember correctly, Perot received enough votes in '92 to put the Reform Party automatically on the ballot in all 50 states for '96. The party has since fell off the face of the earth.
|
45/47
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status:
Offline
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Status:
Offline
|
|
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar
I remember when Perot dropped out. He said he was "afraid it would end up in the House", and he added because "The Democrats had revitalized their party". Then Bubba fell behind in the polls and got back in.
https://www.c-span.org/video/?27152-...ign-withdrawal
(
Last edited by Chongo; Sep 18, 2016 at 08:08 PM.
)
|
45/47
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status:
Offline
|
|
Could the notion that a two party system is unhealthy be one of the few things we all agree upon?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status:
Offline
|
|
"Why doesn't the libertarian party get more support?"
Gary Johnson, the Libertarian candidate for president, takes what he calls the "long-term view" of climate change. "In billions of years," he said in 2011, "the sun is going to actually grow and encompass the Earth, right? So global warming is in our future."
The former New Mexico governor did acknowledge that humans are making the world warmer in the near term, too—but he doesn't think the government should do much about it. In the same speech, he denounced "cap-and-trade taxation," said we "should be building new coal-fired plants," and argued that the "trillions" of dollars it would cost to combat climate change would be better spent on other priorities.
"Long-term consequence of our existence in the whole scheme of things is the sun is getting closer to the Earth and that at a point in the very distant future, the sun will actually encompass the Earth. So global warming is something that's going to be inevitable."
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: May 2001
Status:
Offline
|
|
^^^
Because for every single issue the Libertarian Party position makes a helluva lot of sense there are two others where it's quite clear that they all too often favor ideological purity over common sense.
OAW
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status:
Offline
|
|
I've decided to see if some context helps that quote. It's an hour long video, so I haven't found it yet.
Best line so far was along the lines of "someone asked me what it was like to conquer Mount Everest. I didn't conquer Everest... she lifted her skirt and I got a peek."
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: May 2001
Status:
Offline
|
|
Originally Posted by subego
Best line so far was along the lines of "someone asked me what it was like to conquer Mount Everest. I didn't conquer Everest... she lifted her skirt and I got a peek."
OAW
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status:
Offline
|
|
I didn't get a chance to track down that particular quote, but it's got its own Snopes page.
They point out (correctly IMO) the interpretation everyone wants to make about the "sun swallowing", doesn't really jibe with him saying we as humans are causing climate change, which he says in the same speech.
I personally think cap and trade is a problematic idea, I assume newer coal plants are cleaner than old ones, and we waste tons of resources on the issue to little appreciable effect.
This doesn't mean "**** the environment", it means current methods suck.
President subego would go nuclear on everybody's ass.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Shaddim's sock drawer
Status:
Offline
|
|
Damned right, nukes for all and a thorium reactor in every home.
|
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status:
Offline
|
|
I don't know about one in every home, but how about we start with one full-size reactor to do some serious research on. AFAIK, almost nobody does real research on nuclear power anymore.
And stop worrying about transmission costs. Build the nukes right in the middle of nowhere and run power lines. It is not like the dams for hydro plants are right in the middle of populated areas. High voltage DC works nicely for transmission to cut down on cable costs and safety zones for magnetic fields.
But hey, if you want to build solar plants in the desert instead, go ahead. Or in orbit, works for me. Just stop pretending that we can keep burning coal and oil for the foreseeable future and do something major to replace it.
|
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status:
Offline
|
|
OH I forgot to mention, listened to an interesting podcast on libertarianism on freakonmics last week. If anyone cares.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status:
Offline
|
|
Originally Posted by subego
I didn't get a chance to track down that particular quote, but it's got its own Snopes page.
They point out (correctly IMO) the interpretation everyone wants to make about the "sun swallowing", doesn't really jibe with him saying we as humans are causing climate change, which he says in the same speech.
I personally think cap and trade is a problematic idea, I assume newer coal plants are cleaner than old ones, and we waste tons of resources on the issue to little appreciable effect.
This doesn't mean "**** the environment", it means current methods suck.
President subego would go nuclear on everybody's ass.
The problem is he basically chalks up trying to fight climate change as futile, so why bother.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status:
Offline
|
|
Is there something which definitively makes it clear this interpretation is correct as opposed to mine?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Shaddim's sock drawer
Status:
Offline
|
|
Originally Posted by P
Just stop pretending that we can keep burning coal and oil for the foreseeable future and do something major to replace it.
I'm assuming you mean this in general and not us specifically? I've been off the grid for quite a while now. We can actually produce way too much, but our former utility wanted to charge us a substantial amount to contribute to the local distribution network. So now the cells only operate as needed during peak usage and to charge our main batteries.
|
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status:
Offline
|
|
Originally Posted by subego
Is there something which definitively makes it clear this interpretation is correct as opposed to mine?
...
"When you look at the amount of money we are looking to spend on global warming — in the trillions — and look at the result, I just argue that the result is completely inconsequential to the money we would end up spending," he said. "We can direct those moneys to other ways that would be much more beneficial to mankind."
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status:
Offline
|
|
“What it points to also is that we do have to inhabit other planets. The future of the human race is space exploration.”
I don't think he's saying this is what he'd propose as president, but this seems to be about as close to solutions he's going to advocate.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status:
Offline
|
|
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar
...
What (I assume) he's talking about is money being spent to subsidize solutions which are otherwise economically unviable. It's pissing money away.
This is opposed to something like a switch to nuclear.
That's the irony here, no one calls nuclear "fighting global warming" because from an economic standpoint it makes too much goddamn sense. That gets it put into another category. It's like it doesn't count as fighting global warming unless the shit is wacky enough.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status:
Offline
|
|
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants
I'm assuming you mean this in general and not us specifically? I've been off the grid for quite a while now. We can actually produce way too much, but our former utility wanted to charge us a substantial amount to contribute to the local distribution network. So now the cells only operate as needed during peak usage and to charge our main batteries.
I mean in general. We don't actually burn coal and oil for power at all here in Sweden in most cases, although there is a single oil-burning power plant that gets turned on in case of emergency, and we use the waste heat from industries that burn coal for other reasons. No, the reason I thought about it this time is that I was recently in south-east China again. They burn some coal over there, and it shows. There is a reason that just about every other person you see wears a mask over nose and mouth.
|
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Professional Poster
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Just west of DC.
Status:
Offline
|
|
Johnson-Weld....sounds like a glue.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: UK
Status:
Offline
|
|
Originally Posted by BadKosh
Johnson-Weld....sounds like a glue.
But who would want to glue that? And to what?
|
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Professional Poster
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Just west of DC.
Status:
Offline
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: inside 128, north of 90
Status:
Offline
|
|
er, Trump glues his hair to his head. Nyah.
Anyway, on a MATURE note, Johnson/Weld will be fielding questions on Facebook LIVE at 6pm, then after the "debate" on twitter.
https://www.facebook.com/govgaryjohnson/
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status:
Offline
|
|
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar
OH I forgot to mention, listened to an interesting podcast on libertarianism on freakonmics last week. If anyone cares.
What was your biggest takeaway?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status:
Offline
|
|
Originally Posted by subego
What (I assume) .
Yeah well he does himself no favors by neither specifying what he means or his alternatives.
Originally Posted by subego
What was your biggest takeaway?
The contrast between one of the guests perspective on how libertarianism is too extreme for most people and needs to be toned down to be politically viable and his personal positions being that same extreme libertarianism that throws people off. IIRC
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status:
Offline
|
|
Gary Johnson struggles to name a world leader he respects - CNNPolitics.com
The Libertarian presidential nominee was asked by MSNBC's Chris Matthews during a town hall forum to name his "favorite foreign leader."
Johnson began to restate the question, and Matthews interrupted: "Any one of the continents, any country. Name one foreign leader that you respect and look up to, anybody."
The former New Mexico governor sighed, and his running mate, former Massachusetts Gov. Bill Weld, said his would be Shimon Peres, the recently deceased Israeli statesman.
"I'm talking about living. You gotta do this. Anywhere, any continent. Canada, Mexico, Europe, over there, Asia, South America, Africa. Name a foreign leader that you respect," Matthews said.
Johnson, still struggling to answer the question, offered: "I guess I'm having an Aleppo moment ... the former president of Mexico."
Bill Weld on point with the best political answer.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status:
Offline
|
|
Originally Posted by subego
What was your biggest takeaway?
God bless Freakonomics, they have a transcript.
Ten Signs You Might Be a Libertarian - Freakonomics Freakonomics
And what does he think of the Libertarian political party?
TAYLOR: Well, I’m probably not the best person to ask because I’ve never been a member of the Libertarian Party.
DUBNER: Oh is that right. Why is that?
TAYLOR: The American political system is essentially rigged to produce a two-party system, and it’s virtually impossible to imagine a world in which a third party could sustain itself over a long period of time and become a relevant political actor. So if you’re trying to advance your ideas in American politics, you either have to advance them in the Democratic Party or you have to advance them in the Republican Party.
So that’s how Taylor spends his days.
TAYLOR: Libertarians have spent a tremendous amount of time and energy since 1970 promoting their ideas, and yet, there’s no indication that libertarian sentiment in this country is any larger today than it was then. There is no real clear evidence that libertarian ideas are penetrating an academia amongst intellectuals to any greater extent than they ever have been in the past. The reality is that in politics, libertarianism has faced a market test and lost repeatedly. And I think this is an important bit of an information for libertarians who believe in markets and the functionality of markets — to face up to the fact that libertarian ideas have failed two very important market tests: a political market test and an intellectual market test. So either there is something wrong with the salesman of libertarian ideas, or there is something wrong with the product they’re selling, and I suspect that it’s a chunk of both.
DUBNER: Let me read you a fairly short list of topics and give me the standard — or what you see as the standard — libertarian position on the following issues. So first of all: the size and role of the federal government?
TAYLOR: Probably cut by 90 percent.
DUBNER: What survives?
TAYLOR: The standard libertarian position is that we need a military that is capable of defending the continental shorelines of the United States from foreign intrusion, which will imply a far less military presence than we have. We would be disengaged from global alliances and bases in Europe and whatnot, since we’re only interested in the security of our own nation, no other nation. And welfare disappears, and public expenditures for the most part disappear on, you name it. All the government does is has a court system. It has a police force. And it has a few rules of the road here and there, but otherwise government goes back to the levels it was before the progressive era, which was very, very small.
DUBNER: So Department of Education gone, Department of Transportation gone.
TAYLOR: Labor regulations, gone. Minimum wage is gone. OSHA regulations gone. Anti-trust operations disappear. The economy becomes a real laissez-faire operation.
DUBNER: Internal Revenue Service?
TAYLOR: Gone. Well, somebody has to pay at least the minimum bills, but I feel most libertarians will oppose income taxes to do so.
DUBNER: What kind of taxation? Give me again the standard position on taxation generally, then.
TAYLOR: Well I think it’s a bit confused. For a lot of libertarians, they will puff out their chest and say, “taxation is theft.” Well, if taxation is theft then there is no legitimate way of funding even these minimum responsibilities of the government except, say, bake sales or something like that.
It looks like I misheard his explaining standard L positions as espousing them himself.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Rules
|
|
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|