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proaudio101 · 07:18 PM

yes, I as I said , apple ripped me off.... I paied ful price, for a apple computer, that will now be refurbished...

http://www.macfixit.com/article.php?...21028073945932

CheesePuff · Oct 28, 2002, 07:09 PM

huh?

know be refurbished?

CheesePuff · Oct 28, 2002, 07:11 PM

oh and by the way do you think that by all of this complaing you are doing to us will get you a new G4 that is quieter?

I mean, if I was about to buy a new $3,200 computer (or anything for that matter) I would get some reviews and user opinions on it first.

proaudio101 · Oct 28, 2002, 07:19 PM

I thought apples were for pro's, but they are no better then PC

PoisonTooth · Oct 28, 2002, 08:01 PM

THAN PCs, you mean.

Look, just because a product is considered premium does not automatically usher it into the realms of perfection. You can buy your $100K Porsche 996 Turbo and have a few minor niggles with it. Hell, you can even have a massive tranny failure on your ride home.

That's what service, support, and warranties are for.

Phil Quinney · Oct 28, 2002, 08:10 PM

Well, from what I can see this is good news.

It seems that apple is doing something about the problem - maybe a sign that they do listen.

I have to admit the noise isn't all that bad, but I'm used to being around noisy computers, so it doesn't bother me. I normally have some sort of music playing that drowns out any kind of fan noise.

If anyone gets any more info on the fix please let us know!

Phil.

proaudio101 · Oct 28, 2002, 08:19 PM

the fix is to get your new over price g4 , send it to apple, then you have a refurbished unit.

Phil Quinney · Oct 28, 2002, 08:22 PM

Well, a big no no to that one then!

I remember the whole hassle with the Performa 6200 logic board hassle. It took two replacements of the logic board before the machine was fixed and ceased to crash whenever it felt a little ill.

Phil.

aaanorton · Oct 28, 2002, 08:34 PM

Originally posted by proaudio101:
the fix is to get your new over price g4 , send it to apple, then you have a refurbished unit.

Does your mom know you're using her new computer?

raskol · Oct 28, 2002, 08:52 PM

Originally posted by proaudio101:
the fix is to get your new over price g4 , send it to apple, then you have a refurbished unit.

Dude if you are not a native English speaker you should put your location in your profile so people won't give you a hard time when you don't use perfect English.

Some people don't have anything better to do THAN make fun of others.

Metzen · Oct 28, 2002, 08:53 PM

Motherboard replacement != refurbished unit/motherboard, etc.

I used to work in Tech Support, the only time you ever get a refurbished unit is if you specify it. The company doesn't like to give out refurb units, the end user doesn't like recieving them.

What you are going to get is either of the following:
A) A New Motherboard (most likely)
B) Depending on the severity of the problem, a EE to fix it.

The majority (I'd say 95%) you'll get (A).

:XI: · Oct 28, 2002, 08:58 PM

I wonder how many powermacs fail some test in the factory and get fitted with a new cpu/mobo/hard drive/whatever and get sold as new?

hey, look everybody! apple is giving you new quieter motherboards to replace your old loud motherboards! what a rip-off!

*the sarcasm in this post is entirely intentional and should be stored in a cool dry place out of the reach of children.

CheesePuff · Oct 28, 2002, 10:03 PM

Please explain exactly how Apple ripped you off. You paid for a Tower G4 machine. You got a Tower G4 machine. Does Apple say it will come with "the quietest fans around"? No.

TheMosco · Oct 28, 2002, 10:25 PM

He feals ripped off because he fels that Apple sold him a computer under the context that they had a great new design and lots of speed without making the fan noise significatly greater. Atleast that what i think after reading his other posts. But to tell you truth, i dont think it is extremely louder than the older model but it is loud.

I am assuming that he is running in os 9 which is probably one of the problems but then again running os 10.2 is not really an option yet.

I dont know where he got this refurbished product idea. You do or should get a new motherboard. In all my experiences with apple regarding computer problems everything has been handled very quickly. My last computer problem was just a noisy hard drive that they replaced without question on my ibook.

I have one of these new machines and in now way do i feel like i got ripped off.

proaudio101 · Oct 29, 2002, 12:39 AM

well, here is my gripe with apple.

The claim that this is for pro users. But, as you see, you have many people hacking away at their "pro" g4's like they were some home build PC AMD system. And all I hear is rumors. Anyways, apple is getting beat out by AMD systems. everyone knows AMD beat both P4's and G4's....

flatcatch · Oct 29, 2002, 02:03 AM

Originally posted by proaudio101:
well, here is my gripe with apple.

The claim that this is for pro users. But, as you see, you have many people hacking away at their "pro" g4's like they were some home build PC AMD system. And all I hear is rumors. Anyways, apple is getting beat out by AMD systems. everyone knows AMD beat both P4's and G4's....

Are you for real?

First of all you are not going to get a refurbished machine - you will most likely get a brand spanking new motherboard. Secondly, what strange little world are you from where you think that pro level products cannot possibly have a problem if they are called "pro" level products? Does it suck that there are problems with the new G4s? You bet. If I had to send in my machine it'd be a pain in the ass, but at least it'd be fixed. But you, my friend, are crazy.

eddiecatflap · Oct 29, 2002, 03:45 AM

..at least it shows

a. apple listens to its customers
b. apple must troll these and similar boards
c. a process of continual refinement is in no way a bad thing.

..if this is the case , the fans are going to be quieter , i will DEFINITELY get a dp867...

GRATE NEWS!

PS . proaudio - buy yerself a nice quiet athlon box...

Cipher13 · Oct 29, 2002, 04:58 AM

Originally posted by proaudio101:
well, here is my gripe with apple.

The claim that this is for pro users. But, as you see, you have many people hacking away at their "pro" g4's like they were some home build PC AMD system. And all I hear is rumors. Anyways, apple is getting beat out by AMD systems. everyone knows AMD beat both P4's and G4's....

Wow.

They're not for pro's because they're noisy?

**** hey. I guess the Xeon servers at work have to go then... maybe I'll replace them with some PRO machines.

proaudio101 · Oct 29, 2002, 06:42 AM

can someone define refurbished for me?

Anyways, for Pro recording, apple has falen off. This again, is a rumon, about them fixing the motherboard...just like thefirmware fix. They are not a good company...just a bunch of bad apples...

you know what they say, one bad apple spoils the bunch.

ollio · Oct 29, 2002, 11:16 AM

I have a new MDD PM. How can I diagnose that my motherboard is a bad one?
I don't hear fluctuations in the fan noise, so is it constantly blowing full speed? I cannot compare it to other ones, so i don't really kow if this is the case.

Metzen · Oct 29, 2002, 11:53 AM

Originally posted by proaudio101:
can someone define refurbished for me?

A used or previously damaged unit (now repaired) put up for sale again.

Can YOU define refurbished for us?

Originally posted by proaudio101:
Anyways, for Pro recording, apple has falen off. This again, is a rumon, about them fixing the motherboard...just like thefirmware fix. They are not a good company...just a bunch of bad apples...

I see... You'd rather have them deny that there are flaws and simply say that everything is perfect?

Originally posted by proaudio101:
you know what they say, one bad apple spoils the bunch.

Let me guess... Your experience with every other aspect of your computing life has been perfect? You used Windows 2.0, it crashed for you, and now every version of Windows is horrible?

Are you a pessimist? Is life always out to get you?

Cindy74 · Oct 29, 2002, 02:19 PM

Is there any criteria which determines if you have one of those mother boards? Mine is noisy but not miserably so. However, if they are replacing the mother boards maybe I should...

Anyone know?

roders · Oct 29, 2002, 05:41 PM

I had a go on a Dual 1gig mirored door G4 in a romm with at leats thirty of the things.
In OSX it was pretty snappy (just the interface, and gebneral app usage, nothing heavy like Audio or DV) but still not as fast as my year old, home made, on a budget AMD system.
Anyhow, back on topic, the machine was nice and quite, as were 28 of the other exact same machines, but one was making a huge fam noise/din all most non-stop, I guess this must have had the faulty Mobo.
Withought the mobo fault the sound is totaly tolerable for a tower, with the fault it's ridiculous, just fore those who were wondering.

PacHead · Oct 29, 2002, 05:55 PM

Ok, obviously Mr. Proaudio 101 is obviously no pro.

I happen to be a "real" audio pro, and I've stated my discontent with the noise level, and lack of fan control under OS 9, numerous times here.

Mr. Proaudio, should have done his 2 minutes of research before he bought his machine, and he would have found out about the excessive noise issue. A real Pro should test his tools out, and be aware of them before he purchases them.

All "pro" studios will have their machines in a seperate machine room.

There's a bunch of bedroom studios springing up all over the place, and obviously, this is not a good enviorment for the new duals.

Now don't get me wrong, the new machines are loud, but you wouldn't be able to record vox in the same room as the machine with any of the older towers either, if you want profesional results.

I suggest that proaudio101 sells his mac, and buys an amd or similiar. He'll be much happier, and we all know that all "real" pros use pcs for music.

The thing I don't understand is, he bashes mac, then when they offer a fix, he continues to bash. (Sounds like a troll to me). I've been holding off getting a new dual for quite a while now, because I've been hoping for some sort of fix. It seems like I just might be ordering my new machine soon. (as soon as I'm sure that all of the old stock has sold out, so I can be sure I'm getting the new rev. which apple is currently shipping)

Cindy74 · Oct 29, 2002, 06:14 PM

Originally posted by PacHead:

The thing I don't understand is, he bashes mac, then when they offer a fix, he continues to bash. (Sounds like a troll to me). I've been holding off getting a new dual for quite a while now, because I've been hoping for some sort of fix. It seems like I just might be ordering my new machine soon. (as soon as I'm sure that all of the old stock has sold out, so I can be sure I'm getting the new rev. which apple is currently shipping)

I agree this guy has to be a troll. Nothing makes him happy and he goes on with obvious mindless drool

How do you tell the difference between an "old" rev and a new rev. I bought my 867 in the early part of Oct. At the time the place I bought it from claimed to have gotten "a new batch from Apple" that supposidly did not have the problem. Mine is still pretty loud in OS 9 and I would like to know...

PacHead · Oct 29, 2002, 06:32 PM

I'm not sure how one would tell the two apart, but I have read on other forums, that all new duals shipping from apple right now, include the new motherboard. I don't believe apple has released any info, regarding the different versions.

I'm also not sure if the new versions are any quieter than the previous ones, but the new motherboard does fix some incompatibilities between the duals and certain audio pci cards.

If I had a ton of money, I'd just order a new machine from apple, but I have to pay tax, so I'm going to wait just a little longer, to make sure all of the big online mac etailers, have depleted their old stock.

proaudio101 · Oct 30, 2002, 01:30 AM

again, apple has not made a statement. Its all rumors...firmware fixes, new motherboards.... but still no fix in site.

apple is stuck between a rock and a hard place...just look at this link

http://www.barefeats.com/pentium4.html

as you can see, apple is far behind. I dont know why, but these days apples are OVER RATED and AMD is UNDER RATED.

Seriously, whats the point of having a project studio, if you cant work without loud noise. apple reallt shafted their customers this time. The new apples have been out since august, and still no fix..

Cindy74 · 01:41 AM

Originally posted by proaudio101:
again, apple has not made a statement. Its all rumors...firmware fixes, new motherboards.... but still no fix in site.

apple is stuck between a rock and a hard place...just look at this link

http://www.barefeats.com/pentium4.html

as you can see, apple is far behind. I dont know why, but these days apples are OVER RATED and AMD is UNDER RATED.

Seriously, whats the point of having a project studio, if you cant work without loud noise. apple reallt shafted their customers this time. The new apples have been out since august, and still no fix..

Your an idiot. The link you gave shows the Mac faster not slower you A. Even if it is just Photoshop that is what most of us use. The fact that you want to play games is obvious. Your a troll

Shekwan · Oct 30, 2002, 03:21 AM

Originally posted by Cindy74:
Is there any criteria which determines if you have one of those mother boards? Mine is noisy but not miserably so. However, if they are replacing the mother boards maybe I should...

Anyone know?

macbidouille.com

swiz · Oct 30, 2002, 03:25 AM

Originally posted by proaudio101:
again, apple has not made a statement. Its all rumors...firmware fixes, new motherboards.... but still no fix in site.

apple is stuck between a rock and a hard place...just look at this link

http://www.barefeats.com/pentium4.html

as you can see, apple is far behind. I dont know why, but these days apples are OVER RATED and AMD is UNDER RATED.

Seriously, whats the point of having a project studio, if you cant work without loud noise. apple reallt shafted their customers this time. The new apples have been out since august, and still no fix..

OK!!! Bubye. Go preach your shite somewhere else fscking holier than thou knowitall. Maybe if you had a good studio you could keep the tower in a separate room and not deal with the noise. I understand though when its sitting next to the fishbowl in your "pro" studio... errrrr, bedroom- its hard to hear anything else.

MindFad · Oct 30, 2002, 03:34 AM

Hey, I'm actually pretty impressed with those scores that the 1.25 G4 dual got. Can't wait till next year. Apple doesn't look that far behind to me.

Xaositect · Oct 30, 2002, 11:11 AM

It's a little confusing following these posts from proaudio101, but I think he's complaining about the conflict with ProTools mixing. Apparently, if you have the first revision of the logic board/firmware, you can have lockup at boot with the Digi-card in the machine. This is a problem with the logic board.

For the record, Apple replaces the logic board with a new one in this case. If you are within 50 miles of an onsite service provider, they set up an onsite replacement if you want, or else you take it in (or mail it in as a last option) for the logic board to be replaced. There are several recording studios in my area, so I have done three of these now (two onsite, one in shop).

proaudio101 · Oct 31, 2002, 04:05 AM

Well, this is still a rumor...apple has not come out and said anything aboutthis. When are the new g4's coming out?

ilukas · Oct 31, 2002, 05:55 AM

Originally posted by proaudio101:
Well, this is still a rumor...apple has not come out and said anything aboutthis. When are the new g4's coming out?

did you ****ing read what Xaositect wrote? did you see what is written on the KB article?

is playing the latest PC game eating away at your brains? if so, go back to your rolls-royce quiet AMD!!!

i'll spell it out for you: apple has identified the problem and they are fixing it! Apple Computer, Inc. will NOT, i repeat, will NOT make a press release about this problem with some MDD G4s, nor will they send you a personal letter apologizing for it with a dozen pretty apple stickers to make you happy.

it is in your power, i repeat, your power to get your G4 to be fixed if you want to. therefore, i see absolutely no need whatsoever to complain about this issue from now on.

judd · Oct 31, 2002, 06:36 PM

Sorry for my ignorance but what models are "Power Mac G4 Mirrored Drive Door"

Is the 866DP a "Power Mac G4 Mirrored Drive Door"?

Thanks

Simon · Oct 31, 2002, 07:01 PM

Originally posted by judd:
Sorry for my ignorance but what models are "Power Mac G4 Mirrored Drive Door"

Is the 866DP a "Power Mac G4 Mirrored Drive Door"?

Yes it is. As well as the dual 1GHz and the dual 1.25GHz. I believe the only possible mix-up could be dual 1GHz because there was a QS with that CPU too, but it didn't have DDR and of course... looks like a QS, i.e. no mirrors.

asagoo · Nov 1, 2002, 06:12 AM

When checking my motherboard for this number (which is hasn't), I noticed that all the noise isn't actually coming from the processor fan, but from the two fans in the powersupply! The actual processor fan is very quiet.

Amar

Simon · Nov 1, 2002, 06:38 AM

Originally posted by asagoo:
When checking my motherboard for this number (which is hasn't), I noticed that all the noise isn't actually coming from the processor fan, but from the two fans in the powersupply! The actual processor fan is very quiet.

Yes, the PS fans are the suckers. If you head over to www.xlr8yourmac.com you will see that these are the fans people have been trying to replace since they seam to make most of the noise.

Cindy74 · 08:33 AM

Originally posted by Simon:

Yes, the PS fans are the suckers. If you head over to www.xlr8yourmac.com you will see that these are the fans people have been trying to replace since they seam to make most of the noise.

I cannot find this number. Is it UNDER the CPU's? I dont want to have to take them out......Do I?

Also, do they replace the logic board only if the CPU fan is running or do they do it if the power supply fans run all of the time?

Simon · Nov 1, 2002, 09:41 AM

Originally posted by Cindy74:
I cannot find this number. Is it UNDER the CPU's? I dont want to have to take them out......Do I?

The number is right under the modem card. You don't have to take it out. Just take as flash light and you can see it. It's right nect to the board socket for the modem card.

Also, do they replace the logic board only if the CPU fan is running or do they do it if the power supply fans run all of the time?

The power supply fans always run. AFAIK the CPU fan too. But these fans have variable speeds and the computer only turns into a vacuum cleaner if the CPU fan runs full blast. I think the fault is that on some models the CPU fan always runs 100%.

Cindy74 · Nov 1, 2002, 04:15 PM

Originally posted by Simon:

The number is right under the modem card. You don't have to take it out. Just take as flash light and you can see it. It's right nect to the board socket for the modem card.

.

We must be talking 2 different computers. My built in modem sits right under a HUGE CPU heatsink. I cannot see what you describe nor does my board look like the one in the photo posted earlier.

I have a dual 867

Simon · Nov 2, 2002, 05:08 AM

Originally posted by Cindy74:

We must be talking 2 different computers. My built in modem sits right under a HUGE CPU heatsink. I cannot see what you describe nor does my board look like the one in the photo posted earlier.

I have a dual 867

OK, if nothing here resembles your Mac, you may have a different model. Are you absolutely sure that you don't have a dual 800? Does your Mac have a mirror surface on front or does it have two rectangular bevels with rounded corners.

If it has a mirror surface and is a dual 867 it must look something like on the pictures here. I'll show you how: Take your Mac and open its side door. Look at you Mac from the front -> You see your CPU heatsink to the left and the PCI slots to the right, OK? Now between the PCI slots and you there is a little green card which is plugged into the blue motherboard. This card is on the front right corner of the motherboard. Now look at the right side if this card. Take a flash light an look at the part of the Motherboard which is right underneeth the right edge of the socketed green card. You'll see "Apple Computer Inc." and bellow that line there is a number. This is the number your looking for.

HTH

Cindy74 · Nov 2, 2002, 11:43 AM

Originally posted by Simon:

Take a flash light an look at the part of the Motherboard which is right underneeth the right edge of the socketed green card. You'll see "Apple Computer Inc." and bellow that line there is a number. This is the number your looking for.

HTH

Found it!! Gees.. That J27 connector has a board in it that was almost covering this number completely so it did not look the same as the picture. The number on my board is 820-1445 which is neither of the other numbers (820-1308 or 661-2631).

Simon · Nov 2, 2002, 03:16 PM

Originally posted by Cindy74:
The number on my board is 820-1445 which is neither of the other numbers (820-1308 or 661-2631).

Congrats! That means you don't have to bring your new Mac to the dealer.

fady · Nov 2, 2002, 03:33 PM

Ok, I have a new DP G4 867Mhz and it's not that loud... sure I hear a fan but for a tower with 2 processors and 1 GPU, wouldn't you expect the noise of a fan blowing?

I put iTunes to play and I don't hear it that much! And it's way better than the HD whining my old iMac used to do...

Cheers!

COmie JOe · Nov 2, 2002, 07:27 PM

Originally posted by raskol:

Dude if you are not a native English speaker you should put your location in your profile so people won't give you a hard time when you don't use perfect English.

Some people don't have anything better to do THAN make fun of others.

Mabey he is just another crappy product of the USA, like yourself? Over paid, over fed, Overly incompantant, and dosen't know how to respect other cultures....

Metzen · Nov 2, 2002, 08:26 PM

Originally posted by COmie JOe:
Mabey he is just another crappy product of the USA, like yourself? Over paid, over fed, Overly incompantant, and dosen't know how to respect other cultures....

How hypocritical...

aaanorton · Nov 2, 2002, 09:39 PM

Originally posted by COmie JOe:
Mabey he is just another crappy product of the USA, like yourself? Over paid, over fed, Overly incompantant, and dosen't know how to respect other cultures....

And maybe you know what you meant by this.
Thant would be one person.

JNG · Nov 2, 2002, 10:45 PM

Originally posted by COmie JOe:
Mabey he is just another crappy product of the USA, like yourself? Over paid, over fed, Overly incompantant, and dosen't know how to respect other cultures....

LOL

Yeah, "mabey." He "dosen't" want to be "overly incompantant"-after all, we all need just the right amount of incompetence (like you've demonstrated).

If you hate products of the USA so much, why are you on a message board about Apple computers?

Sheesh

JNI · Nov 6, 2002, 03:48 AM

I happen to be a "real" audio pro...
[...]
All "pro" studios will have their machines in a seperate machine room.

There's a bunch of bedroom studios springing up all over the place, and obviously, this is not a good enviorment for the new duals.
[...]
I suggest that proaudio101 sells his mac, and buys an amd or similiar. He'll be much happier, and we all know that all "real" pros use pcs for music.
[...]
Maybe if you had a good studio you could keep the tower in a separate room and not deal with the noise. I understand though when its sitting next to the fishbowl in your "pro" studio... errrrr, bedroom- its hard to hear anything else.

You elitist "I'm a *real* pro and you're not" guys make me sick.

I've been playing music for over 30 years and have been in the Music Industry for nearly 20 years. I know dozens of friends that are 'music pros' (which means they make money making music), and they, as well as I have 'home studios' where it isn't feasible to have separate equipment rooms. When needed, it may be necessary to go into a 'real studio' to get quiet tracks down. Remember also that many pros are gigging musicians and not studio musicians and recording artists. They don't need absolute quiet environments, just reasonably quiet ones. The home studio is where most of the song writing is done, practice sessions, jamming etc. Home studios are legitimate environments for pros musicians too.

Some of these people may be tinkerers, they may be just starting out in the music business, or may even be seasoned pros. They are trying to make music with their Macs, and asking for help. They have a legitimate issue, and I can understand their predicament and surprise, considering the behaviour of these new machines is unprecedented in previous Macs. Not everyone (at least those with a real life) spends endless hours reading newsgroups looking for something that they didn't expect.

The only current real suggestions so far are:

- try to isolate the noisy machines as best as possible with a sound isolation box or foam panels.

- wait and see if Apple or some other third party comes up with a fix.

- get a different machine.

- ignore the trolls and do what you've got to do to make some music.