Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > The North Korean diplomatic effort

The North Korean diplomatic effort (Page 2)
Thread Tools
The Final Dakar  (op)
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 24, 2018, 12:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by Thorzdad View Post
I never thought this thing was ever going to happen, but Pence and Bolton waving the "Lybia model" in Kim's face really didn't help things.
Almost mistyped Labia Model.

Did anyone catch Trumps rambling on that? He very clearly doesn't realize the Libya model refers to their denuclearization and instead thinks it's when we and our allies bombed the shit out of them to support the uprising.
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 24, 2018, 03:02 PM
 
Heh... you said “model”.
     
Thorzdad
Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Nobletucky
Status: Online
Reply With Quote
May 24, 2018, 03:44 PM
 
The Art of the Fail
     
OreoCookie
Moderator
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hilbert space
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 25, 2018, 09:20 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Did anyone catch Trumps rambling on that? He very clearly doesn't realize the Libya model refers to their denuclearization and instead thinks it's when we and our allies bombed the shit out of them to support the uprising.
Bolton certainly wasn’t confused when he mentioned Libya. I am almost really confused: Trump’s own administration officials are torpedoing their boss’s efforts of what (for a brief second) could have been his crowning achievement worthy of a Nobel Prize. Almost confused.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 25, 2018, 09:37 AM
 
Let's say that's true: Why? My cynical guess: Because they don't trust him to negotiate a good deal.
     
OreoCookie
Moderator
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hilbert space
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 25, 2018, 09:46 AM
 
I wouldn’t say that Bolton scuttled the talks because of that, Bolton was always a chicken hawk, and would have pushed for no negotiations even if Trump were capable of strategic planning.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
Thorzdad
Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Nobletucky
Status: Online
Reply With Quote
May 25, 2018, 11:01 AM
 
You can't escape the "It's really NK's fault!!!" spin right now. It's wall-to-wall.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 25, 2018, 11:07 AM
 
They could be right for the wrong reason. That NK never had any intention of negotiating in good faith and managed to hoodwink Trump into thinking so for cred and giggles.
     
Waragainstsleep
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 26, 2018, 09:35 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
They could be right for the wrong reason. That NK never had any intention of negotiating in good faith and managed to hoodwink Trump into thinking so for cred and giggles.
For some reason I think its more likely that Trump is doing the whole will-they-won't-they bit as one of his standard distractions from the investigations into his various moral and legal failings. That and he can't decide between actually landing a genuine win and trying to look like a tough guy.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
OreoCookie
Moderator
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hilbert space
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 27, 2018, 09:11 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
They could be right for the wrong reason. That NK never had any intention of negotiating in good faith and managed to hoodwink Trump into thinking so for cred and giggles.
Two things: first of all, everybody knew that going into it. If Trump didn't, because he refuses to do his homework, we can quibble about what verb best describes this (Willful ignorance? Incompetence? etc.) And secondly, I think the Trump Administration's expectations are ludicrous which destine any meeting to failure. I've outline more realistic goals above (e. g. officially signing a cease fire to “end” the Korean War), and while these are largely symbolic, I think at this stage of the relationship, this is what you can (and should) aim for.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 27, 2018, 10:29 AM
 
I was kind of hoping the plan was to get Trump to cancel the meeting and then make peace without him.

He’d be soooooo mad.
     
Waragainstsleep
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 27, 2018, 01:49 PM
 
Mad but relieved. Trump is the biggest snowflake going and is almost certainly petrified of going near Korea and Kim.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 27, 2018, 03:45 PM
 
I get the opposite feeling. Doing the dance with Kim is the kind of shit Trump lives for.

What he’s petrified of is Muller. Trump would love to have some credibility as a world leader before they enter the octagon.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 27, 2018, 04:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Mad but relieved. Trump is the biggest snowflake going and is almost certainly petrified of going near Korea and Kim.
Yeah, I'll disagree with that entire analysis.
     
OreoCookie
Moderator
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hilbert space
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 28, 2018, 03:45 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I get the opposite feeling. Doing the dance with Kim is the kind of shit Trump lives for.
Trump just craves recognition, ever since the inane idea of a Nobel Peace Prize (at this point, with nothing to show for) had been implanted into his brain, he is drawn to meeting Kim Jong-Un like a moth to a flame. Problem is that he's still not willing to put the work in to understand all the dependencies, the necessary background and keep all the members of his own administration in line.

Just look at his psychology: I once heard the description of him as “the poor man's idea of a rich man” with all the gold and gaudiness, and a completely lack of taste for refined things (his diet, penchant for all things gold and poor dress exemplify this). He wants to be recognized as a great leader.
Originally Posted by subego View Post
What he’s petrified of is Muller. Trump would love to have some credibility as a world leader before they enter the octagon.
Trump doesn't want credibility, he wants respect and to be recognized as a great leader.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
Chongo
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 28, 2018, 10:03 AM
 
President Obama was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for what he might do, then never did.

45/47
     
Doc HM
Professional Poster
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: UKland
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 28, 2018, 10:35 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
ever since the inane idea of a Nobel Peace Prize (at this point, with nothing to show for) had been implanted into his brain,
to be fair Obama left the bar to winning this a low as it could be realistically expected to go.
This space for Hire! Reasonable rates. Reach an audience of literally dozens!
     
OreoCookie
Moderator
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hilbert space
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 28, 2018, 11:19 AM
 
Originally Posted by Doc HM View Post
to be fair Obama left the bar to winning this a low as it could be realistically expected to go.
I thought giving Obama a Nobel Peace Prize simply for becoming US President was a mistake. But should we repeat mistakes like that?
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
Thorzdad
Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Nobletucky
Status: Online
Reply With Quote
May 28, 2018, 11:12 PM
 
I thought it was an odd choice, too. So, I prefer to think of Obama’s Nobel more as a symbolic “well done” to the US as a whole for actually electing a black man President.
     
OreoCookie
Moderator
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hilbert space
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 29, 2018, 12:05 AM
 
Originally Posted by Thorzdad View Post
I thought it was an odd choice, too. So, I prefer to think of Obama’s Nobel more as a symbolic “well done” to the US as a whole for actually electing a black man President.
Yes, that's how I saw it as well. Plus, Obama's message of hope as a campaign slogan. But we should reward people for what they have done rather than what they might do.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
andi*pandi
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: inside 128, north of 90
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 29, 2018, 12:19 PM
 
true.
     
Waragainstsleep
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 29, 2018, 06:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Yeah, I'll disagree with that entire analysis.
Trump is a coward. All mouth, no trousers.
I suspect that if anyone ever took a shot at him you'd never see him make an outdoor speech again. Even if they missed by a mile. He'd publicly shrug it off and even mock the shooter, but he'd do it from indoors.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 30, 2018, 10:52 AM
 
Originally Posted by Thorzdad View Post
I thought it was an odd choice, too. So, I prefer to think of Obama’s Nobel more as a symbolic “well done” to the US as a whole for actually electing a black man President.
Obamas Nobel was a "Not George Bush Award" for not being the guy who started an elective war nor Mr. Bomb-bomb-bomb Iran. Aside from that being an idiotic reason to give the award, Obama had proven nothing and the point most in his favor, not having voted for the Iraq war, was due to him not being in congress at the time, not foresight or moral Conviction.

I don't blame any conservative that doesn't take them seriously after that. Never mind not waiting around long enough to see Obama fail at most of his descalation promises.
     
Laminar
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Iowa, how long can this be? Does it really ruin the left column spacing?
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 30, 2018, 05:46 PM
 
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 7, 2018, 06:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
I'm almost too consistent with that one line.

---

There were some reports Bolton was trying to purposely torpedo the meeting with his Libya comments, but I'm not totally convinced as he's also attending.

Guliani said Kim begged on his hands and knees for the meeting and I'd be heartily amused if they pulled out because of his comments.

Trump says he doesn't need to prep for the summit. Pompeo now doing clean-up work saying he'll be adequately informed beforehand.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 10, 2018, 05:33 PM
 
"Lindsey Graham wants Democrats to authorize the use of military force against North Korea if diplomacy fails."

I am continually amazed how often and how easily Graham calls for war.
     
OAW
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: May 2001
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 10, 2018, 08:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
"Lindsey Graham wants Democrats to authorize the use of military force against North Korea if diplomacy fails."

I am continually amazed how often and how easily Graham calls for war.
Graham and McCain are two peas in a pod when it comes to that.

OAW
     
Thorzdad
Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Nobletucky
Status: Online
Reply With Quote
Jun 10, 2018, 08:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
"Lindsey Graham wants Democrats to authorize the use of military force against North Korea if diplomacy fails."
Because disagreeing with Trump is an act of war?
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 10, 2018, 10:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by Thorzdad View Post
Because disagreeing with Trump is an act of war?
No, he was advocating for a first strike against them before this. I solution to any perceived threat is war.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 10, 2018, 10:36 PM
 
So any predictions/fears of what comes out of this?

I feel like Trump will be dying to find a way to get our Troops out of SK.

I wonder if an embassy is on the table.

...and I wouldn't be completely surprised if Trump let's slip a mention of a possible Trump branded property.
     
reader50
Administrator
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: California
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 10, 2018, 11:28 PM
 
Well, there is that incomplete hotel in Pyongyang. It could use a brand name. And an opening date.
     
Thorzdad
Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Nobletucky
Status: Online
Reply With Quote
Jun 11, 2018, 07:40 AM
 
Trump's already given NK a big win in holding the talks at all. NK has been wanting to have a face-to-face with the US President for several decades, but all previous administrations said "No", knowing that doing so would bestow NK's regime with instant legitimacy and status, making it much harder to effect change.

At best, I think NK will agree to scrap their ICBM program (or, simply promise to aim them away from the US). That lets Trump crow about "making the US safe." But, he'll let NK slide on the short and medium-range missiles that can hit allies like Japan and SK, as well as China and Russia. Sort of a Trumpian "f**k you, I got mine" to our allies. I can't see NK ever agreeing to fully de-nuke itself.

If the US gives NK any more concessions, I think it will be tied to Trump's favorite domestic causes...coal and, possibly, oil. Steel and produce like soybeans could be offered, as well.
     
Thorzdad
Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Nobletucky
Status: Online
Reply With Quote
Jun 11, 2018, 11:23 AM
 
     
andi*pandi
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: inside 128, north of 90
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 11, 2018, 11:37 AM
 
he leaves everything early. attention span of a gnat.
     
Thorzdad
Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Nobletucky
Status: Online
Reply With Quote
Jun 11, 2018, 12:50 PM
 
It just seems weird. This was supposed to be his big, huge, never been done, greatest negotiator ever, moment. And, he leaves early? It's hard to imagine Nixon leaving China early.

Then again, the White House has been scaling-back expectations rapidly. I think it's now down to "establishing a dialog."
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 11, 2018, 12:56 PM
 
I'd consider the Pompeo and no general visits establishing a dialogue. The summit should be to hammer out details.

Of course trump prioritized the optics of having a summit of the point of having one.
     
Chongo
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 11, 2018, 10:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by Thorzdad View Post
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
he leaves everything early. attention span of a gnat.
Originally Posted by Thorzdad View Post
It just seems weird. This was supposed to be his big, huge, never been done, greatest negotiator ever, moment. And, he leaves early? It's hard to imagine Nixon leaving China early.

Then again, the White House has been scaling-back expectations rapidly. I think it's now down to "establishing a dialog."
The linked article omitted the fact that Trump was planning on leaving Wednesday until it was announced that Kim was leaving after the meetings.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-officials-say
45/47
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 11, 2018, 11:14 PM
 
Chongo right, Trump is leaving earlier because he sees Kim potentially leaving first as some kind of power move
     
Chongo
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 11, 2018, 11:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Chongo right, Trump is leaving earlier because he sees Kim potentially leaving first as some kind of power move

President Donald Trump moved up his planned departure from his summit with Kim Jong Un after North Korean officials made plans to leave by the end of the day, a U.S. official told Bloomberg News.

Trump, who had been willing to stay longer, is formally scheduled to depart summit site at 6:30 p.m. and fly home from Singapore at 7 p.m., which is 7 a.m. New York time, according to public White House schedule.
45/47
     
Chongo
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 12, 2018, 08:22 AM
 
Trump did stay long enough after the meeting to give Hannity a interview.
45/47
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 12, 2018, 09:21 AM
 
So what great concessions did the deal maker get us for stopping war games?
     
Thorzdad
Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Nobletucky
Status: Online
Reply With Quote
Jun 12, 2018, 09:52 AM
 
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 12, 2018, 10:15 AM
 
Originally Posted by Thorzdad View Post
I didn't exactly call it but this pretty much falls under my thinking he'd let his mind wander to business opportunities
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 12, 2018, 11:22 AM
 
Reading comments from supporters and congressmen, the cult of personality is in full effect for this subject.
     
Thorzdad
Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Nobletucky
Status: Online
Reply With Quote
Jun 12, 2018, 12:31 PM
 
     
 
Thread Tools
 
Forum Links
Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Top
Privacy Policy
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:27 PM.
All contents of these forums © 1995-2017 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Branding + Design: www.gesamtbild.com
vBulletin v.3.8.8 © 2000-2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.,