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macOS Sierra
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Chongo
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Sep 10, 2016, 05:07 PM
 
macOS Sierra will be available 09/20 and the Mid 2007 IMac didn't make the cut.

Mac Hardware Requirements
For details about your Mac model, click the Apple icon at the top left of your screen, choose About This Mac, then choose More Info. These Mac models are compatible with macOS Sierra:

MacBook (Late 2009 or newer)
MacBook Pro (Mid 2010 or newer)
MacBook Air (Late 2010 or newer)
Mac mini (Mid 2010 or newer)
iMac (Late 2009 or newer)
Mac Pro (Mid 2010 or newer)
Not enough horsepower for Siri?
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reader50
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Sep 10, 2016, 06:06 PM
 
The major problem is the Merom CPU - Sierra requires a later SSE version. In theory, you could upgrade to a Penryn CPU since it's socketed. Also, the WiFi chip is a BCM4321, and Apple hasn't supplied a Sierra driver for it. So wireless would vanish.
     
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Sep 10, 2016, 06:59 PM
 
Penryn added SSE4.1, that is true, but the 2008 iMacs were Penryn models and supported that. Nehalem added SSE4.2, but not all Late 2009 iMacs were Nehalem-based. Wifi chip is of course a possibility, but it seems you should be able to use the old driver from 10.11. It could be the chipset, but that is just another variation on the driver argument. No, it is not clear to me why they cut support for the early aluminum iMacs. I suspect that it may be legal technicalities only, that they don't want to support 10 year old models for some reason.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
reader50
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Sep 10, 2016, 07:18 PM
 
Chongo's 2007 iMac has the Merom + BCM4321 issues.
The 2008 iMac only has the BCM4321 wireless issue, otherwise compatible. And some 2008s shipped with a compatible Atheros chip instead of the BCM4321. Several other "unsupported" Macs are in fact fully compatible. You just need to work around the installer on initial install.

I've bookmarked this macrumors thread to follow along with Sierra compatability testing. Model summary is in the first post, kept up-to-date by editing.
     
And.reg
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Sep 10, 2016, 08:06 PM
 
Knowing the problems that I reported during their beta phase.... which they never fixed....

Everyone get ready for your favorite list of macOS bugs, this time, Sierra Series...
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ghporter
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Sep 10, 2016, 08:16 PM
 
Well crap. That means my workhorse iMac (also mid 2007) is now deprecated... I'm sad about that, but I hope it means that it's just going to be "not as advanced" instead of "left in the dust".

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Sep 10, 2016, 10:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
Well crap. That means my workhorse iMac (also mid 2007) is now deprecated... I'm sad about that, but I hope it means that it's just going to be "not as advanced" instead of "left in the dust".
I think 9 years is a good run, though, isn't it?
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CharlesS
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Sep 10, 2016, 10:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
Well crap. That means my workhorse iMac (also mid 2007) is now deprecated... I'm sad about that, but I hope it means that it's just going to be "not as advanced" instead of "left in the dust".
El Cap is still a fine OS. I think when the next one comes out, though, you'll want to upgrade for APFS.

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Sep 11, 2016, 12:54 AM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
Chongo's 2007 iMac has the Merom + BCM4321 issues.
The 2008 iMac only has the BCM4321 wireless issue, otherwise compatible. And some 2008s shipped with a compatible Atheros chip instead of the BCM4321. Several other "unsupported" Macs are in fact fully compatible. You just need to work around the installer on initial install.

I've bookmarked this macrumors thread to follow along with Sierra compatability testing. Model summary is in the first post, kept up-to-date by editing.
Sure, but I was wondering why they cut off support for the 2008 iMacs. Since the kernel interfaces don't change that we know of, it should be possible to just copy over the driver from the El Cap tree (and if the interfaces change, I think they'd cut off more Macs than 8 and 9 year old models). It could be that it looks bad that the iMacs are supported for longer than the Mac Pros. I know that that is the only reason my 2011 MBA doesn't support continuity - the 2011 MBP lacks the hardware, so they locked out the 2011 MBA as well.

Anyway. Bringing the 2008 iMacs back seems to be easy, and USB wifi adapters are cheap.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
The Evener
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Sep 11, 2016, 05:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
macOS Sierra will be available 09/20 and the Mid 2007 IMac didn't make the cut.



Not enough horsepower for Siri?
I'm in the same boat as you -- mine is an early 2009 iMac, which is just shy of the "late 2009 iMac" cut-off

That said, I haven't been upgrading the OS on that Mac for a while -- still at 10.6.8!

I used to be first in line upgrading, but I am definitely off my game. My other Mac is more up to date, so maybe it's just an issue of "if it ain't broke..."

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Waragainstsleep
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Sep 11, 2016, 07:28 PM
 
Any signs of them fixing the various issues with Mail? I really wish they would fix Mail. Its so important and how hard can it really be to make it so you can actually move a whole folder of messages without it timing out?
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
ghporter
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Sep 11, 2016, 09:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
I think 9 years is a good run, though, isn't it?
Originally Posted by CharlesS View Post
El Cap is still a fine OS. I think when the next one comes out, though, you'll want to upgrade for APFS.
Yes, 9 years is indeed a good run, but I was finally finding "affordable" RAM upgrades (4GB SODIMMs) to max out the machine and get a bit "peppier" performance. And El Capitan is indeed a fine OS. My wife's Mac Book is doing well on El Cap too, so it's just jarring that I will have different versions on my MBP and iMac.

I think I'll still pursue the RAM upgrade anyway. It's about $100 versus "$new iMac," so that's a no-brainer...

Any real ideas about features (versus "under the hood" stuff) that Sierra will give us?

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reader50
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Sep 11, 2016, 09:09 PM
 
If you're willing to do a CPU swap, you can install Sierra. There is a fair amount of disassembly involved, and you'd have to remove / replace the CPU heat sink too. Then use ethernet or work around the wireless issue. At least until someone solves the driver question.
     
CharlesS
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Sep 11, 2016, 11:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
Any real ideas about features (versus "under the hood" stuff) that Sierra will give us?
The "under the hood stuff" are the features that I'm interested in.

There's a list of consumer-level features here, though. It's mostly Siri, Siri, Siri, Siri, Siri, Siri, Siri, and some other stuff.

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ghporter
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Sep 12, 2016, 07:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by CharlesS View Post
The "under the hood stuff" are the features that I'm interested in.

There's a list of consumer-level features here, though. It's mostly Siri, Siri, Siri, Siri, Siri, Siri, Siri, and some other stuff.
Yeah, I was hoping to see more about the "non-Siri" stuff. Still, those consumer-level features are what most people will be very interested in. And they're what I'm going to need to point out how running a Mac is better than a Windows 10 machine. I probably should have been more complete on that.

So... Is AFS really all that? Anything special about things like external storage that may be affected by the internal drive's file system?

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CharlesS
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Sep 12, 2016, 10:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
Yeah, I was hoping to see more about the "non-Siri" stuff. Still, those consumer-level features are what most people will be very interested in. And they're what I'm going to need to point out how running a Mac is better than a Windows 10 machine. I probably should have been more complete on that.
I'm not really into that "platform wars" stuff anymore these days. I like what I like; if you like something else, that's okay.

So... Is AFS really all that? Anything special about things like external storage that may be affected by the internal drive's file system?
Well, it's not yet complete, and is being promised for the next release rather than Sierra. With that said, we've needed a new file system for at least a decade now, and HFS+ has become a hideously ugly monstrosity these days, with all the stuff they've duct-taped onto it. I do wish APFS supported checksumming, but even so, it's going to be probably the single most substantial upgrade to OS X in at least a decade.

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OreoCookie
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Sep 12, 2016, 10:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
So... Is AFS really all that? Anything special about things like external storage that may be affected by the internal drive's file system?
Not immediately at least. We will have to see what Apple will build on top of APFS, but essentially every file operation will be faster and more secure.
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And.reg
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Sep 13, 2016, 02:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by CharlesS View Post
There's a list of consumer-level features here, though. It's mostly Siri, Siri, Siri, Siri, Siri, Siri, Siri, and some other stuff.
Don't forget Siri.

And "Hey Siri."

On another note, I'm going to wait until Canon comes out with macOS Sierra drivers for the MG7720 before I upgrade.
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CharlesS
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Sep 13, 2016, 03:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by And.reg View Post
Don't forget Siri.

And "Hey Siri."
How could I forget that?! Seriously.

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turtle777
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Sep 18, 2016, 06:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by And.reg View Post
Don't forget Siri.

And "Hey Siri."
Yes, finally, we can have shitty Siri on all our devices.

-t
     
ghporter
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Sep 18, 2016, 08:55 PM
 
Siri isn't particularly useful on my phone (and I have yet to intentionally invoke Siri on my iPad), so I can't see it being a huge pull for me in deciding on upgrading my OS. However, many of the other consumer features are interesting - and the underpinnings will be even more interesting once I play with the stuff.

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turtle777
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Sep 18, 2016, 09:02 PM
 
The "problem" with Siri is: it's great at parsing the words / sentences spoken, but in most cases, it can't make sense of it.

It's just not that intelligent.

-t
     
mindwaves
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Sep 19, 2016, 11:32 PM
 
It's 9/20 here and I don't see macOS Sierra!!
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OreoCookie
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Sep 20, 2016, 08:31 AM
 
I'm also still waiting … 
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Chongo  (op)
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Sep 20, 2016, 09:00 AM
 
10:00 am pdt
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And.reg
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Sep 20, 2016, 01:35 PM
 
Currently 1:35pm edt
This one must be taking a lot of courage...

Edit: Wait, I think that I found it...

Go into App Store, and search for it manually using the Search toolbar.

Yes people, Apple makes you do this on your own without telling you.



Let me know if macOS Sierra causes your Mac to hiss at you
( Last edited by And.reg; Sep 20, 2016 at 02:49 PM. )
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Chongo  (op)
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Sep 20, 2016, 08:05 PM
 
I started to download Sierra at home over my 20MB ADSL2 connection. It said it would be >24 hrs. (4.77G) I paused it and loaded my iMac in the truck and hopped over to mom's where my brother has cable internet. Took about 10 minutes.
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mindwaves
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Sep 21, 2016, 05:41 AM
 
Have Sierra installed. Don't really see anything new. Having Siri is nice. I would probably use it more than on my phone. I cannot use this stupid website that requires Java now....(yes, I installed the latest Java and everything, maybe have to wait for an update). Everything else seems to be the same.
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OreoCookie
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Sep 22, 2016, 03:28 AM
 
Yes, I have updated and encountered no problems with any of my apps.
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Doc HM
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Sep 22, 2016, 05:36 PM
 
well they took the opportunity to turn the fire hoses on Flash. Already tired of having to go into Safari preferences and turn flash on for individual sites.

What did flash ever do to deserve... oh yes.

edit found the "on" button
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OreoCookie
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Sep 22, 2016, 07:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doc HM View Post
well they took the opportunity to turn the fire hoses on Flash. Already tired of having to go into Safari preferences and turn flash on for individual sites.
I have been using Chrome as my dedicated flash browser and Safari for everything else. Have you given that a try?
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ghporter
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Sep 24, 2016, 10:03 AM
 
I'm with Oreo. Chrome automatically blocks Flash but gives you the option to enable it on a per-page basis through a tool on the right end of the menu bar. It works very well.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
ajprice
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Sep 26, 2016, 04:12 AM
 
I haven't upgraded mine yet. Any issues or reason why I shouldn't on a 2013 MBPr 13" i5 with 4GB RAM?

It'll be much easier if you just comply.
     
And.reg
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Sep 27, 2016, 07:59 PM
 
You knew it was coming!
And.reg's List of Annoying Bugs in 10.12 (and a few fixed/remedied bugs from 10.11) - and request for help

As of August 24, 2017
20 unresolved bugs

Link to this post: http://forums.macnn.com/90/mac-os-x/...a/#post4367001

Bugs in 10.10: http://forums.macnn.com/90/mac-os-x/...e/#post4295983
Bugs in 10.11: http://forums.macnn.com/90/mac-os-x/...s/#post4334618
Bugs in 10.12: (this post)


First, a list of fixed/remedied bugs:

From bugs reported in 10.10: http://forums.macnn.com/90/mac-os-x/...e/#post4295983

Bug 1 has been either fixed or remedied.


From bugs reported in 10.11: http://forums.macnn.com/90/mac-os-x/...s/#post4334618

Bugs 2, 3 have been either fixed or remedied.



Second, I did not think to list this in the 10.11 bugs, but sometimes, Finder would delay the ejection of a USB drive, an SDHC card, or an iOS device for 30 seconds for apparently no reason whatsoever. Snappiness is back in 10.12.



Third, a list of not remedied bugs since 10.10 (and through 10.11 into 10.12):

From bugs reported in 10.10: http://forums.macnn.com/90/mac-os-x/...e/#post4295983

Bugs 4, 12 (see below), 15, 17, and 20 have NOT BEEN FIXED in macOS Sierra.


Also, a frustrating bug that I never reported, sometimes when entering search terms into the Safari toolbar and then pressing "return," you have to press "return" a second time...but my expectation is that if I press once, it should begin a search. Instead, I am left staring at my computer waiting for search results to appear on the screen. This problem has NOT been fixed in Safari 10.0



#12. When un-muting your volume for the first time after booting the computer, the volume control will show a fraction of a dial:
In 10.10:
In 10.11:
This was a problem in 10.9, 10.10, and 10.11, and is still not remedied.

From bugs reported in 10.11: http://forums.macnn.com/90/mac-os-x/...s/#post4334618

Bugs 1, 14, 15, and 16 have NOT BEEN FIXED in macOS Sierra.

Bugs 4, 5, 6, 7, 10, 11, 12, and 13 are still in review.

Bugs 8 and 9 were already remedied through updates to El Capitan.


Note on Bug 12: This is the bug that I have reported:
http://forums.macnn.com/90/mac-os-x/...s/#post4362526

Since upgrading to 10.12, Bug 12 APPEARS to have finally been remedied. During the 10.12 beta phase, I reported that the bug can still be reproduced if, instead of clicking on an open application window, you click on the corresponding Dock icon for that application. I will update this post to see if it still reappears.



Also:

Preview continues to be extremely slow when editing the color properties of a photo, and particularly the sharpness. This has been a very annoying problem from 10.7 to 10.11. These speed issues have not improved since installing 10.12, and I'm on a quad-core CPU Pro MacBook. This never got a number because I reported it back in 10.7... which is the first OS update where editing in Preview went from lightning fast (in 10.6) to painfully slow (in 10.7) and is still not snappy like it was back in 10.6.




NEW BUGS IN 10.12:

1. ;;When pasting clipboard text into my FirstClass.com web mail client (the stand-alone application), the pasted text is prefixed with at least one pair of semicolons (just as in this example). This was NOT a problem in 10.11.

2. In Calendars week view, when resizing an event in Calendars with a long travel time (e.g., 2 hours), if you resize the event starting at the top of the event, then the EVENT start time (not travel) will jump back 2 hours to the beginning of the travel time. The correct behavior should be that the start of the TRAVEL time should be changed correspondingly with the amount of mouse down drag. I do not recall if this was a problem in 10.11.

3. Folder aliases no longer look like folders. They look like blank documents.

4. Searching within some graphics-intensive documents in Preview will temporarily and inconsistently cause blank rectangles to cover over the graphics or blur the text. Try searching for "xtick" in: http://pgfplots.net/media/pgfplots/pgfplots.pdf
This was NOT a problem in 10.11.

5. Sometimes, Safari will display black lines or rectangles on Bing's search result pages during scrolling. This was NOT a problem in 10.11.

6. Dragging an event in week view in Calendars to another week by floating the event up and to the right at the end of the week will cause the column of timestamps on the left to either vanish or give incorrect times. As far as I can recall, if it was a problem in 10.11, it was not as bizarre.

7. Sometimes, a single line of pixels will cut through the display, usually when scrolling. See this most for video. This was NOT a problem in 10.11 or in 10.12.0, but was introduced shortly after.

8. ANOTHER issue with Multi-Column view in Finder:
Let's say that you add a Red tag to a few commonly-accessed folders of your choosing. Then you access those folders via a Red tag in the Finder sidebar, in multi-column view. You click on the Red tag in the sidebar, then you navigate within the folders with the arrow keys.
The problem is that, as you navigate inside the folders, the highlighted Red tag, in the sidebar, keeps flickering every time that you press an arrow key. I do not recall if this was a problem in earlier versions of macOS.

9. Starting up a Mac while connecting via mini-DisplayPort to an external monitor that has not yet been turned on will cause the cursor to jitter on the screen and be unresponsive on-off in 2-second delays that repeat. I did not test this behavior in earlier versions of macOS.

10. Sometimes, repeatedly connecting and/or disconnecting an external monitor while exploring color calibration settings will create artifacts behind the text labels for Dock icons when mousing over. I did not test this behavior in earlier versions of macOS.

11. Sometimes, opening a jpg in Preview and going to Tools > Adjust Color... the RGB level profiles do not show up, and instead the window above the level controls is blank. (Testing on a 2017 Pro MacBook 15" with AMD Radeon Pro 560 connected to 4K LG monitor)
( Last edited by And.reg; Aug 24, 2017 at 07:17 PM. )
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reader50
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Sep 27, 2016, 10:45 PM
 
I just experimented with a Sierra install on an unsupported Mac. My 2009 Mac Pro fails the install check. I could flash my firmware to a 2010 Mac Pro and all would be well. But Sierra reportedly works without issue or complaint on a 2009.

I tried a support app that modifies the Installer on a USB drive to skip the platform check. Didn't quite work - Sierra boots from the USB drive, but the Installer refuses to install on anything. They need to update the hack app.

Then I tried installing while booted from a 2011 MacBookPro, with the MacPro in FW Target Disk Mode. Success with an unmodified installer.

Reboot. My 2009 Mac Pro booted into Sierra without complaint. It appears the platform check is only done by the installer, not the OS. At least on a 4,1 Mac Pro.

I only fooled around with it for half an hour. I'm not ready to migrate, only to test. But everything I tried worked, including Siri. "About This Mac" reported it correctly as a Mac Pro (Early 2009).
     
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Sep 28, 2016, 08:02 PM
 
I've been trying to do something similar for my 2007 iMac, and (maybe because the installer I downloaded isn't up to snuff) no go here. I haven't had a chance to upgrade my 2013 MBP, and get a clean installer to play with, but that's coming up next.

I've been getting back up to speed with work and around the house, but messing with a computer just hasn't had the urgency that other household tasks have.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
Chongo  (op)
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Sep 29, 2016, 07:42 AM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
I've been trying to do something similar for my 2007 iMac, and (maybe because the installer I downloaded isn't up to snuff) no go here. I haven't had a chance to upgrade my 2013 MBP, and get a clean installer to play with, but that's coming up next.

I've been getting back up to speed with work and around the house, but messing with a computer just hasn't had the urgency that other household tasks have.
Post the clean install instructions. I have almost 2TB of Hi8/mini DV (and music/photos) video I'm going to dump on an external HDD and would like to do a clean install as well.
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reader50
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Sep 29, 2016, 01:00 PM
 
Glenn, for a 2007 iMac you still need a CPU swap to a Penryn processor. Here is the list of Penryns used in iMacs.

Search ebay for:
"intel 8135" gives 2.4 GHz or 2.66 GHz
"intel 8235" gives 2.8 GHz
"intel 8335" gives 2.66 GHz or 2.93 GHz
"intel 8435" gives 3.06 GHz

You might also consider swapping the airport card to one Sierra supports. BCM4321 is the driverless chip, you want the later one with Atheros chip.
( Last edited by reader50; Sep 29, 2016 at 02:11 PM. Reason: typo)
     
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Sep 29, 2016, 08:00 PM
 
These are the instructions (and link to the installer patch tool) that I've been using.

Reader, it's not that the install hangs or fails, it never starts. I go to an Apple logo screen, but nothing ever happens. It's think got to be something to do with the installer I downloaded, but I haven't had a chance to download Sierra on my MBP to see if that is actually is the problem.

As for the CPU upgrade, that's tempting whether it's needed or not. The instructions didn't say that a CPU upgrade was needed, but I don't think this is the reason the installation doesn't work.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
reader50
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Sep 29, 2016, 08:36 PM
 
Same place I went to. I used the dosdude1 hack utility, which booted but still performed the install check. Then refused to install on my unsupported MacPro.

Check the colored graphic in the first post - your Merom CPU cannot work with Sierra. Sierra was compiled requiring SSE 4.1, which came into play with the Penryn CPUs. Hence why it hangs on boot.
     
Stogieman
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Sep 30, 2016, 01:32 AM
 
Anyone having connection issues with the wifi? I'm running Sierra on a mid 2010 iMac. When I wake the computer from sleep mode, the wifi icon in the menu bar stays grey. The iMac will not connect to the internet until I manually select a network from the wifi menu.

Nobody ever mentions my legendary sexual prowess.
     
ghporter
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Oct 1, 2016, 08:53 AM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
Same place I went to. I used the dosdude1 hack utility, which booted but still performed the install check. Then refused to install on my unsupported MacPro.

Check the colored graphic in the first post - your Merom CPU cannot work with Sierra. Sierra was compiled requiring SSE 4.1, which came into play with the Penryn CPUs. Hence why it hangs on boot.
Interesting. I'd have thought there would have been more of an error message, like "unsupported CPU detected" or "hardware not supported," rather than simply sitting there forever with the unchanging Apple screen...

So... On to eBay!

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
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Oct 1, 2016, 12:29 PM
 
I reread the color graphic, and I had incorrectly interpreted it. So yes, on to eBay!

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
And.reg
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Oct 20, 2016, 07:39 AM
 
Why does my Mac keep going to sleep in the middle of a long download? I have it set to 5 minutes but you would think that if Safari needs 30 minutes to download the file then it wouldn't go to sleep. Where is the correct setting to prevent this?
This one time, at Boot Camp, I stuck a flute up my PC.
     
P
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Oct 20, 2016, 08:31 AM
 
Set one of the active corners to be "Sleep never" (or whatever it is called) and move your mouse there when downloading.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
And.reg
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Oct 20, 2016, 11:44 AM
 
For the hot corner options, I have:

Start Screen Saver
Disable Screen Saver

Mission Control
Application Windows
Desktop
Dashboard
Notification Center

Launchpad

Put Display to Sleep
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reader50
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Oct 20, 2016, 12:17 PM
 
In Energy Saver, try the "Wake for network access" option.
     
And.reg
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Oct 20, 2016, 12:34 PM
 
There is no "Wake for network access" option.

I have:

Turn the display off after: (slider bar)

then checkboxes for:

Put hard disks to sleep when possible
Slightly dim the display while on battery power
Enable Power Nap while on battery power
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turtle777
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Oct 21, 2016, 07:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by And.reg View Post
There is no "Wake for network access" option.

I have:

Turn the display off after: (slider bar)

then checkboxes for:

Put hard disks to sleep when possible
Slightly dim the display while on battery power
Enable Power Nap while on battery power
Are you on WiFi or ethernet ?

It's showing for me (Wifi + Ethernet).

-t
     
And.reg
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Oct 23, 2016, 01:51 PM
 
Wireless.


Using
2015 Pro Macbook 15"
This one time, at Boot Camp, I stuck a flute up my PC.
     
 
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