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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > The Paris Climate Disagreement

The Paris Climate Disagreement (Page 10)
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besson3c
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Aug 11, 2017, 08:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
1) Global warming will potentially destroy the planet.
2) People who scoff at it are complicit in the potential destruction of the planet.
3) This is bad behavior, it therefore deserves punishment, and/or attempts to alter it.
Not really (at least for me), but before I offer my corrections I'll wait for a few more people to weigh in cause I'm curious what they will say.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Aug 12, 2017, 02:05 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
I don't know what this means, but I would be really interested in your paraphrasing why you feel it is that people like myself, Laminar, Oreocookie, etc. are frustrated with Badkosh and Chongo on this issue?

Maybe you can help bridge this gap.
Originally Posted by subego View Post
1) Global warming will potentially destroy the planet.
2) People who scoff at it are complicit in the potential destruction of the planet.
3) This is bad behavior, it therefore deserves punishment, and/or attempts to alter it.
^^What he said. Though I would change the first two points to:

1) Anthropogenic global warming is destroying the planet.
2) People who scoff at humans being the direct cause are complicit in the destruction of the planet.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
besson3c
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Aug 12, 2017, 03:01 AM
 
Nope, for me it is more like this:

1) thousands of scientists have said that this is a threat and a problem
2) these scientists have put in countless hours of work studying these problems and reside all over the world. It is arrogant to just think of this debate as an American debate.
3) the scientific method has proven to be a tried and true method for establishing the best version of truth humanity has known. It involves skepticism and exhaustive peer review
4) the time for that skepticism is over, because scientists have spent years and years in this process and have come up with conclusions that the vast majority of scientists by a very wide margin agree with. Getting humans to agree upon things is difficult, so for this level of agreement to exist after this many years in as many organizations as have been involved with painstaking and exhaustive research is a pretty big deal
5) random people on the internet that think they know better than these scientists are obnoxious, arrogant, annoying, troll-like, and backwards
6) their mistrust of science given all of these points is extremely weird, especially given the fact that they trust other weird and dubious things for equally weird reasons
7) the stakes are high in the potential destruction that will likely be caused by global warming someday, and politicians have the power to make a difference here but won't if there are enough backwards anti-science people that support this ideology and will vote
8) it is very disturbing and confusing why this is a partisan issue, but the anti-science people do their part to perpetuate this
9) it is annoying being told that people that believe in science are elitist, naive, generally close-minded to skepticism, have their heads in the sand, deserve our patience, etc. **** that. It's been a decade of this bullshit, it's time to move on and embrace facts
10) what scientists and other intellectual leaders have established as facts over the years have become the pillars of our society, it is frustrating for this to be undermined, especially since many of the arguments for this are incredibly flimsy. Where would we be without scientific truth, the technologies which have emerged, and the wisdom gleaned from this hard work and study, not to mention trust of the scientific process?
     
BadKosh
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Aug 13, 2017, 08:44 AM
 
So tell us how giving away billions to other countries will fix the climate. That IS why all these 'studies' are happening. $$$$$
explain why the climate is cooling slightly. Could it be the average temps rise and fall according the orbit of earth, and its progression? Perhaps the sun? Perhaps how much solar dust is between earth and the sun? Has their ever been a way to accurately measure how much crap is blown into the atmosphere by volcanic activity both on land and under the seas? I see where the 'scientists' are plugging in many estimates into their formulae without knowing even how far off their assumptions are.
Bessons argument is the number of papers prove it to be true, but no evaluations as to methodology. Understanding the methodology is what is needed before NASA spends a buttload of $ devising a satellite experiment to look closer. This is what most of the arguments have been about.

Also since even the climate scientists agree that the earth goes through cycles of ice ages and warmer climate in between, do you think we will end up back in another ice age? What then?
     
besson3c
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Aug 13, 2017, 11:37 AM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
So tell us how giving away billions to other countries will fix the climate. That IS why all these 'studies' are happening. $$$$$
explain why the climate is cooling slightly. Could it be the average temps rise and fall according the orbit of earth, and its progression? Perhaps the sun? Perhaps how much solar dust is between earth and the sun? Has their ever been a way to accurately measure how much steal is blown into the atmosphere by volcanic activity both on land and under the seas? I see where the 'scientists' are plugging in many estimates into their formulae without knowing even how far off their assumptions are.
Bessons argument is the number of papers prove it to be true, but no evaluations as to methodology. Understanding the methodology is what is needed before NASA spends a buttload of $ devising a satellite experiment to look closer. This is what most of the arguments have been about.

Also since even the climate scientists agree that the earth goes through cycles of ice ages and warmer climate in between, do you think we will end up back in another ice age? What then?


Badkosh, you are killing me with these incredibly stupid arguments. If you've really hung out with scientists it sounds like you did not pay much attention to what they were saying? I thought you were interested in science that is not sloppy?

Climate change brings about radical weather changes that are sometimes hot, sometimes cold. The term "global warming" is a reference to the fact that on the whole the temperatures are rising, but that doesn't mean that certain parts of the planet won't experience extreme weather shifts where the weather is much cooler than normal.

As far as the methodology, that is exactly what is evaluated within these peer reviews. This is part of the scientific method.

Please answer Laminar's question, it will likely be extremely useful in closing this gap and perhaps putting an end to these really terrible arguments.
     
The Final Shortcut
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Aug 13, 2017, 09:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
So tell us how giving away billions to other countries will fix the climate. That IS why all these 'studies' are happening. $$$$$
This statement is moronic. The world-class scientists in the US, Canada, and EU are all producing their scientific results because.....money goes to other countries?

explain why the climate is cooling slightly.
The climate is not cooling slightly. The hottest year on record was 2016. Please explain why you could possibly think the climate is cooling.

Could it be the average temps rise and fall according the orbit of earth, and its progression?
Yes. It's literally a fundamental tenet of climate science. It does not explain the current global temperature trend.

Perhaps the sun? Perhaps how much solar dust is between earth and the sun?
Yes. Solar variation is literally a fundamental tenet of climate science. It does not explain the current global temperature trend.

Has their ever been a way to accurately measure how much crap is blown into the atmosphere by volcanic activity both on land and under the seas?
Yes, with a caveat - almost by definition there is no way to "accurately" measure this volume, so best estimates are used based on the available tools. Of course...volcanic activity is literally a fundamental tenet of climate science. It does not explain the current global temperature trend - and as I'm sure you know, volcanic activity generally acts as a cooling effect, not warming.

I see where the 'scientists' are plugging in many estimates into their formulae without knowing even how far off their assumptions are.
Please give me an example.

Bessons argument is the number of papers prove it to be true, but no evaluations as to methodology. Understanding the methodology is what is needed before NASA spends a buttload of $ devising a satellite experiment to look closer. This is what most of the arguments have been about.
That is literally what "science" is about: peer review and reproducibility. You don't seem to understand what this means.

Also since even the climate scientists agree that the earth goes through cycles of ice ages and warmer climate in between, do you think we will end up back in another ice age? What then?
That is likely to happen with Milankovitch cycles. We do have some time to figure out a solution. How else are we going to end up in an ice age?
     
BadKosh
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Aug 14, 2017, 07:23 AM
 
Carbon Credits = $$$ = Scam.
     
The Final Shortcut
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Aug 14, 2017, 08:37 AM
 
Well you've demonstrated a real grasp of the topic
     
 
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