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macfantn · Dec 4, 2010, 03:50 AM

19.99, this app looks cool. I'm not sure how much I'd use it. Anyone here tried it?

subego · Dec 4, 2010, 06:09 AM

I wonder if there's appreciable AirPlay latency.

OreoCookie · Dec 4, 2010, 11:04 AM

I'll ask the developers tonight.
You got any other questions?

subego · Dec 4, 2010, 02:18 PM

Oooh... Really?

If this isn't private, how's the $20 price point working out?

OreoCookie · Dec 5, 2010, 03:29 PM

Judging by the party last night, pretty good

Unfortunately I forgot about asking all these geek questions, though, sorry!

They've released it last Thursday and they already have ~500 comments, most of them very positive. They're featured as `iPad app of the week' in the US app store. I haven't asked them for sales numbers, but I think they're pretty happy.

Most of the problems (low memory warnings) have to do with the hardware limitations of the iPad (it only has 256 MB RAM). That's also the reason for most app crashes -- which actually aren't crashes due to bugs, it's that iOS kills the app before it runs out of memory (iOS doesn't have swap memory). I'm pretty sure the situation will improve with the next-gen iPad.

I'm very impressed by the capabilities you have on such a comparatively weak system (compared to a modern Mac).

Spheric Harlot · Dec 5, 2010, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

Judging by the party last night, pretty good

Unfortunately I forgot about asking all these geek questions, though, sorry!

They've released it last Thursday and they already have ~500 comments, most of them very positive. They're featured as `iPad app of the week' in the US app store. I haven't asked them for sales numbers, but I think they're pretty happy.

Most of the problems (low memory warnings) have to do with the hardware limitations of the iPad (it only has 256 MB RAM). That's also the reason for most app crashes -- which actually aren't crashes due to bugs, it's that iOS kills the app before it runs out of memory (iOS doesn't have swap memory).

How is that not a "bug"?

Or rather, if an app is unreliable by design (though perhaps through no fault of the developers), doesn't that make it fundamentally broken and useless?

OreoCookie · Dec 5, 2010, 03:50 PM

A bug to me is an error made during programming so that you get a memory leak or something. One big thing is the memory usage during BPM analysis where they need a few additional MB (I remember ~8 MB). I think the guys from algoriddim preferred to push the device to the limit instead of sacrificing functionality. Of course, you can (rightfully) complain that this disqualifies the software for anything other than making music at parties. But I think they were aiming at this demographic with their 1.0 release (also due to the hardware limitations of the iPad).

It doesn't make the app useless, it crashed (or rather: was killed by the OS) four, five times during the whole evening. Give them some time, more powerful hardware, and some DJs may use the iPad version for gigs. (Their desktop version of DJay is really used in clubs, one of the fathers of DJay is a real-life DJ.)

Spheric Harlot · Dec 5, 2010, 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

A bug to me is an error made during programming so that you get a memory leak or something. One big thing is the memory usage during BPM analysis where they need a few additional MB (I remember ~8 MB). I think the guys from algoriddim preferred to push the device to the limit instead of sacrificing functionality. Of course, you can (rightfully) complain that this disqualifies the software for anything other than making music at parties. But I think they were aiming at this demographic with their 1.0 release (also due to the hardware limitations of the iPad).

It doesn't make the app useless, it crashed (or rather: was killed by the OS) four, five times during the whole evening. Give them some time, more powerful hardware, and some DJs may use the iPad version for gigs. (Their desktop version of DJay is really used in clubs, one of the fathers of DJay is a real-life DJ.)

Ah, okay.

I'm looking at it as somebody who uses tools. What you're describing is a toy.

I'd already got that impression from the early promo videos from a few weeks ago, but I was interested in a real-world evaluation.

If "pushing the device to the limit" means accepting occasional crashing, then that's not just "sacrificing functionality"; it's effectively ELIMINATING the tool from any kind of serious use.

A performance tool does not crash. That is the SINGLE primary function. ANYTHING else is secondary. Drop functionality if need be, reduce quality of effects or the speed of applying them when resources get low, but if your tool crashes a performance, it's a completely useless tool.

At $20 (+$500), it's a rather expensive toy.

OreoCookie · Dec 5, 2010, 04:42 PM

@analogika
This version is used a stepping stone for future versions which will be up to professional standards. I find that quite reasonable actually.

subego · Dec 5, 2010, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot

Ah, okay.

I'm looking at it as somebody who uses tools. What you're describing is a toy.

Jeez. You sound like Doofy.

I hope you've thrown out your John Cage.

Spheric Harlot · Dec 5, 2010, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by subego

Jeez. You sound like Doofy.

I hope you've thrown out your John Cage.

Um, sure. Whatever you say.

There's a couple things going on for me, here:

The idea for this thing looked cool, and I know a few working DJs who'd be rather interested in working tools - they're already looking at TouchOSC as Ableton Live controller - which is why I ask.

I'm not going to recommend "performance" products from companies that don't bullet-proof before they beef up functionally.

I'm constantly evaluating the iPad as a "serious" production tool, but so far, everything I've seen, except for TouchOSC, has hit the "ah, okay, forget it then" wall almost immediately.

And TouchOSC, while now officially supported by Logic and Ableton Live, apparently just won't work on a handful of random machines. Not sure what's going on there.

Don't get me wrong: There's nothing wrong with toys, and I love geek toys as much as the next guy. I just can't justify spending money on them if they're not going to have some production value.

If I sound like Doofy, that might not be completely coincidental, given the subject matter.

subego · Dec 5, 2010, 06:48 PM

I'm just messing with you.

Your price qualm seems odd though. If it was usable as a full on tool, wouldn't that be worth like, $60 or something?

Crap video games cost $60 (+$399). $20 is too expensive?

Phileas · Dec 5, 2010, 07:34 PM

I bought a copy and so far, no crashes to report. SH is right, there's a difference between a tool and a fun toy. For my needs the toy is just fine, but I too would not take it into a production environment.

OreoCookie · Dec 5, 2010, 08:28 PM

There are people who use the iPad for music. I think the iPad is a great canvas for creative developers -- and music is definitely one of the areas where innovation already is taking place.

imitchellg5 · Dec 5, 2010, 09:00 PM

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

A bug to me is an error made during programming so that you get a memory leak or something.

If your app is specifically made for one device and it isn't working properly on that device, I'm pretty sure that's a major bug.

subego · Dec 5, 2010, 10:51 PM

Waitaminnit...

All kinds of apps crash all the time on the iPad. It's even worse with 4.2.

Do all these programs have major bugs?

Seems to me the issue is the iPad's anemic RAM.

laieboy · Dec 27, 2010, 08:12 PM

I can't wait to pick up the next release of the iPad. First thing I'm going to do is load DJay on it! I'm a professional DJ and this is perfect for my smaller gigs! I'm buying the iPad for this software alone.