[Ratm]

Help me out with this, it's driving me nuts.

http://zen.tglounge.net/mirror/zapruder_stable.mov 6.4mb

Everyone look at the shot at around 13-14 seconds. You'll see an old man with a camera but look past him at the young man siting on the grass. Look at how he moves. It's almost looks like its going in reverse. He lunges forward to SIT DOWN!?!?! One leg underneath that's bent the other in front of it also bent with the knee pointing up with his arm on top. This is a very relaxed position. He does this well after the last shot is received. He doesn't run away, he runs to sit down!?! The last second of the frame with him in it shows that he rests his arm fully on his knee.

Use VLC to slow the movement at this particular point. His movements are very strange. Add the fact that he moves this way and no one else does. When his Kennedy's wife jumps to the back of the car, no one on the grass reacts not even the family with the small child.


Afterwards I went to this page that got me curious and I started searching the film.
http://www.assassinationscience.com/...ntro/fast.html

[Rolling Bones]

He's diving out of way same as I would do. Kennedy was hit the first time just when he was behind the sign.

[Pogomwg]

Anyone else catch the brain/skull frag or bullet shooting out behind JFK on the second shot? Doesnt seem to normal when someone is getting shot from "behind"

[Tomchu]

He dives out of the way, and it looks like he falls. If you play the video backwards then you can see that his movements *do not* make any physical sense, meaning that what's happening when playing forward is actually happening.

[Y3a]

Yep, you CAN see when he's first hit, and the guy in the seat in front of Kennedy is hit too. I agree that the guy looks like a lookout for the Mafia/Cubans/LBJ/martians or something.

[Ratm]

Check out this site. Very interesting stuff.

The thing that pisses me off about this site is all the spelling errors. If you're going to devote to a cause like this then at the very least you should grammar and spell check the information you publish to the www.

Never the less the information found there is good-old-fashion-popcorn-munching-conspiracy-entertainment.

http://www.jfkmurdersolved.com/index1.htm

Lengthy interview with the lead independent FBI investigator on the JFK assassination. Information about a man named James Files the self confessed second shooter. Identification of the main players that orchestrated the whole thing.

http://www.jfkmurdersolved.com/interview.htm

[Ratm]

In this shot, right before the moment of impact you can see a bright object on the same path with the Presidents head and then impact. The thing is is that this object comes from above and not from the back nor the front.

Warning: Graphic image
(It's those three yellow dots. Check it QT frame by frame and you'll see what I mean.)
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/2145/picture33rj.png

Warning: Graphic image

[Ratm]

Originally Posted by Y3a

Yep, you CAN see when he's first hit, and the guy in the seat in front of Kennedy is hit too. I agree that the guy looks like a lookout for the Mafia/Cubans/LBJ/martians or something.

You can see that when he's hit his body is pushed backward and not forward like someone who's been shot by a person from the back.

[ghporter]

Note a few things about Kenedy's movements and the skull fragment: the head wounds WERE all from the back; the skull fragment was part of the temporal and frontal bones that whipped around from the exit wound-take a look at the way the large flap on the front of his head acts. Second, he was wearing a back brace; he'd had back problems since long before his Navy career, and they got worse because of his service-they were much worse during his presidency. The back brace made it IMPOSSIBLE for him to lean forward except from the hips. Because of this, he effectively bounced backward off the back brace.

Ratm's image is actually the begining of the exit wound forming. A combination of blood, brain material and shattered bone sprays out with the bullet's exit, followed by the shattering of the skull caused by the bullet's shockwave through the skull. The wave travels around both sides and when the two side waves come together, they shatter the skull.

The "guy in front of him" was Texas Governor Connely, who was also wounded. The guy on the grass looks like he was stumbling rather than springing up.

[Ratm]

Originally Posted by ghporter

Ratm's image is actually the begining of the exit wound forming. A combination of blood, brain material and shattered bone sprays out with the bullet's exit, followed by the shattering of the skull caused by the bullet's shockwave through the skull. The wave travels around both sides and when the two side waves come together, they shatter the skull.

But what are those yellow dots that are in a straight line that seem to be right above the Pres. head right before the moment of impact? It looks like a bullet trail to me.

[Rolling Bones]

Originally Posted by Ratm

But what are those yellow dots that are in a straight line that seem to be right above the Pres. head right before the moment of impact? It looks like a bullet trail to me.

Brains.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Ratm

But what are those yellow dots that are in a straight line that seem to be right above the Pres. head right before the moment of impact? It looks like a bullet trail to me.

Dude, look at the image you posted, and the video.

"Before the moment of impact?"

Pardon me, but his head's already exploded at that point.

This is kind of gross, but for me finally seeing that in a version where you can actually follow what's happening has dispelled any doubts about those bullets coming from behind.

[Ratm]

Originally Posted by analogika

Dude, look at the image you posted, and the video.

"Before the moment of impact?"

Pardon me, but his head's already exploded at that point.

This is kind of gross, but for me finally seeing that in a version where you can actually follow what's happening has dispelled any doubts about those bullets coming from behind.

Dammit man! Don't give me logic give me conspiracy

I thought the maybe the cameras of that time weren't capable of capturing at the speeds like modern day cameras. So the trail that you saw there was delayed by a few seconds.

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally Posted by Ratm

I thought the maybe the cameras of that time weren't capable of capturing at the speeds like modern day cameras. So the trail that you saw there was delayed by a few seconds.

Film speed was 24fps then, as now. A few seconds is the entire event. The Zapruder film is 16mm so I think it was 18fps.

I used to entertain conspiracy notions of the Kennedy assassination, but I saw a documentary one of the networks produced on the 40th anniversary of the assassination that in my opinion put the whole thing to rest.

They used 3D imaging very effectively, combined with the footage, to show that 1 shooter in the book depository was not only plausible, but the only possible scenario. Even the ‘magic bullet’ was put to completely to rest- all the crazy angles it was supposed to have traveled were shown to be miscalculation based on the fact no one had taken into account Governor Connallys’ elevated front seat. In the 3D model the trajectory lined up perfectly.

Other forensic testing showed that object struck by a bullet actually can (and often will) move ‘back and to the rear’ every bit as much as forward. The mass of a striking bullet doesn’t push solid objects in as predictable patterns as people think.

It turned out that none of the wounds would have been made from a shooter on the grassy knoll, and other locations were completely debunked.

An acoustic test of shots fired recorded on an officer’s microphone virtually pinpointed the origin right in the suspected window.

The timeline to fire the shots with the known weapon, and hit the target several times- totally do-able.

The idea that Oswald couldn’t have gotten from the sniper’s nest, to the ground floor of the book depository (where witnesses saw him) without breaking a sweat- debunked. Easily done.

Even the idea that Oswald couldn’t have walked across Dallas after the shooting and killed a police officer in the known time frame was thoroughly trashed. As it turns out, no one had ever done a simple walking test to find out, just speculated, then claimed emphatically that it couldn’t be done. A simple test with a stopwatch showed that it was easily done.

It was fun to speculate, but it seems that’s all most of the conspiracies really were. Personally, after seeing so many of the biggest theories shot to flames, I realize that most of it’s just come from no one ever really doing simple tests to confirm things. That leads me to believe that MOST of the other conspiracy theories are pure bunk. And Oliver Stone's JFK looks really silly on more recent watching!

[placebo1969]

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE

Film speed was 24fps then, as now. A few seconds is the entire event. The Zapruder film is 16mm so I think it was 18fps.

I used to entertain conspiracy notions of the Kennedy assassination, but I saw a documentary one of the networks produced on the 40th anniversary of the assassination that in my opinion put the whole thing to rest.

They used 3D imaging very effectively, combined with the footage, to show that 1 shooter in the book depository was not only plausible, but the only possible scenario. Even the ‘magic bullet’ was put to completely to rest- all the crazy angles it was supposed to have traveled were shown to be miscalculation based on the fact no one had taken into account Governor Connallys’ elevated front seat. In the 3D model the trajectory lined up perfectly.

Other forensic testing showed that object struck by a bullet actually can (and often will) move ‘back and to the rear’ every bit as much as forward. The mass of a striking bullet doesn’t push solid objects in as predictable patterns as people think.

It turned out that none of the wounds would have been made from a shooter on the grassy knoll, and other locations were completely debunked.

An acoustic test of shots fired recorded on an officer’s microphone virtually pinpointed the origin right in the suspected window.

The timeline to fire the shots with the known weapon, and hit the target several times- totally do-able.

The idea that Oswald couldn’t have gotten from the sniper’s nest, to the ground floor of the book depository (where witnesses saw him) without breaking a sweat- debunked. Easily done.

Even the idea that Oswald couldn’t have walked across Dallas after the shooting and killed a police officer in the known time frame was thoroughly trashed. As it turns out, no one had ever done a simple walking test to find out, just speculated, then claimed emphatically that it couldn’t be done. A simple test with a stopwatch showed that it was easily done.

It was fun to speculate, but it seems that’s all most of the conspiracies really were. Personally, after seeing so many of the biggest theories shot to flames, I realize that most of it’s just come from no one ever really doing simple tests to confirm things. That leads me to believe that MOST of the other conspiracy theories are pure bunk. And Oliver Stone's JFK looks really silly on more recent watching!

I think I saw the same thing on TV. Great stuff.

[jesusbristow]

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE

The timeline to fire the shots with the known weapon, and hit the target several times- totally do-able.

and

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE

I realize that most of it’s just come from no one ever really doing simple tests to confirm things.

That's funny, because in that silly JFK film they do just that. On film, they test and time how long it would take someone to frantically aim, shoot, reload, aim, shoot, reload, aim, and shoot. 'Garrison' claims his watch said 6 to 7 seconds. What I did was not trust his character and time what was right before my eyes. It took 5.7 seconds, which is just over what the Zapruder film claims at 5.6 seconds.

The naked eye watches this frantic recreation and sees it's no way to kill a President. As the film suggests, you might get a good shot off, the first one. The odds of getting three shots out so quickly and accurately is ridiculous, even with luck. Yes, it could happen, but for that you'd have to be a coincidence dismiss-ologist.

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally Posted by jesusbristow

That's funny, because in that silly JFK film they do just that. On film, they test and time how long it would take someone to frantically aim, shoot, reload, aim, shoot, reload, aim, and shoot.

Please tell me you're not referencing a Hollywood movie?

More and more Garrison comes off as nutty, and Stone went way overboard relying so much on Garrison's speculation become 'fact'.

In multiple tests since the late 60's (that's REAL tests, not scenes in a movie) the myth of this shooting being so impossible has been debunked over, and over again. Garrison and Stone simply IGNORED the fact that it had been tested and proven possible. I can see why Stone did- it makes for an exciting bit of drama.

What IS actually confirmed fact however:

Oswald was indeed a Marine marksman. By all accounts an excellent shot and above average knowledge of weapons. His military records survive and confirm this.

The idea that the shooting was so 'frantic' is a fabrication- Oswald had a secure sniper's nest in a location he knew. There's no reason to believe he was in any panic- that's all simply an embellishment to jazz up the whole conspiracy myth.

The weapon was a bolt action rifle with 6 rounds. It amazes me that people have been so taken in by the idea that firing a weapon at a fairly fast rate, and hitting a target with it- a task the thing was designed to do and the person using it was trained to do- is such a complete impossibility. It's long been proven that it wasn't the world's most impossible shot, and certainly not for Oswald.

Fact: in several tests- including one in the documentary I was addressing- marksmen using the very same model gun were able to hit their targets in a similar setup, distance and timeframe. In the documentary, they used a similar limo and a watermelon standing in for the targets, and the marksman made short work of it.

The naked eye watches this frantic recreation and sees it's no way to kill a President. As the film suggests, you might get a good shot off, the first one. The odds of getting three shots out so quickly and accurately is ridiculous, even with luck. Yes, it could happen, but for that you'd have to be a coincidence dismiss-ologist.

The Zapruder film is probably the SINGLE most studied piece of footage ever shot. Every frame has been studied to death, and then some. And of course it's been stabilized before. I can scarcely believe anyone could actually think no one had done that a billion and three times before. None of this is anything new.

Believe me, I was skeptical myself for a long time, and bought into a lot of the conspiracies. There's still a lot about the whole subject that I think remains unsolved- Oswald's true motivation and identity being the biggest.

But as far as the 'impossibility' of the Oswald being the lone gunman- it actually comes off as the WEAKEST of the conspiracies. It's been very solidly debunked.

I don't believe the 1,034,272,489,420,368th rehash of the Zapruder film is going to dredge up anything new, sorry.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by jesusbristow

That's funny, because in that silly JFK film they do just that. On film, they test and time how long it would take someone to frantically aim, shoot, reload, aim, shoot, reload, aim, and shoot. 'Garrison' claims his watch said 6 to 7 seconds. What I did was not trust his character and time what was right before my eyes. It took 5.7 seconds, which is just over what the Zapruder film claims at 5.6 seconds.

In this other film I saw, they test this new rocket thing called a "warp drive". After they do that, aliens see it and land on Earth and stuff.

It's really neat.

It's always cool to see people being thorough in Hollywood movies. It's almost like it's reality, or something.

[ghporter]

I think the most interesting facet of the whole thing is that they managed to stabilize Zapruder's 8mm home movie so thoroughly. It's incredible.

[jesusbristow]

Originally Posted by analogika

In this other film I saw, they test this new rocket thing called a "warp drive". After they do that, aliens see it and land on Earth and stuff.

It's really neat.

It's always cool to see people being thorough in Hollywood movies. It's almost like it's reality, or something.

An actor in a movie quickly pretends to fire a gun three times. There's no cut, and so it is essentially live. It isn't scientific, but it also isn't fake. It is a reasonable approximation, which filmed, can be timed.

Now, later in the same movie, it is said there is no way Oswald could have gone down all the stairs in the alloted time. Since we don't watch Oswald take all of the stairs, and we're even sure they're the same stairs, timing it would be-- as you're attempting to suggest-- idiotic.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by jesusbristow

An actor in a movie quickly pretends to fire a gun three times. There's no cut, and so it is essentially live. It isn't scientific, but it also isn't fake. It is a reasonable approximation, which filmed, can be timed.

You are assuming that a) the actor is capable of realistically and accurately portraying the capabilities of a marines-trained professional marksman, and that b) the Hollywood producer of said movie is in any way interested in portraying a form of reality, rather than a sequence dramatically heightened and modified events bourne primarily out of a need to make the script work and keep the cinemas full over as long a period of time as possible.

Now b), I can see if you're young enough to think that integrity still exists in the multi-million-dollar entertainment industry segment, but surely, even you must see a) for the ludicrous projection it is?

In short, please stop considering "JFK" as anything even remotely akin to a documentary, because it sure as hell ain't that.

[finboy]

Originally Posted by placebo1969

I think I saw the same thing on TV. Great stuff.

I think it was Discovery Channel. I bought a copy in Dallas last year. Dealey Plaza is a lot smaller than it looks on TV. Looking out of the shooter's nest for myself I could see what an easy shot it would be. Even with a Carcano carbine.

[placebo1969]

Yeah, Discovery. I wish the conspiracy theorists would give it a rest after 40+ years.

[demograph68]

This is the true killer.

[Tomchu]

Actually, watching the video again in slow-motion (VLC), and keeping an eye on the guy with the funny leg ... it's clear that some video frames have been dropped. He's still leaping out of the way and off to his side, but there are only ~3 frames where his leg swings around in a huge arc. It looks completely unnatural. At 1/18th of a second, he's taking 1/6th of a second to swing his leg around a huge angle *in the process* of falling to the ground.

I urge anyone to study that bit very carefully. It really does look like frames were altered or just dropped altogether. The little kid coming up from behind his dad also happens very quickly (in fractions of a second), while still continuing to clap his hands.

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by analogika

In short, please stop considering "JFK" as anything even remotely akin to a documentary, because it sure as hell ain't that.

It sure as hell is a great movie.

[black bear theory]

Originally Posted by Tomchu

I urge anyone to study that bit very carefully. It really does look like frames were altered or just dropped altogether. The little kid coming up from behind his dad also happens very quickly (in fractions of a second), while still continuing to clap his hands.

does that reconcile with the Nix video, where the same guy can be seen but from the opposite angle? could both videos have been faked?

one thing about conspiracy theories is that they have a preternatural fixation on one specific photo or one specific event which becomes the key piece of evidence, though abundant evidence supports a simpler explanation. on some 9/11 conspiracy sites, they show a picture of the remaining tower after the first tower just collapsed. the angle is such that the collapsed tower is directly behind the standing tower and as such all you see is the cloud of ash that is spreading out at ground level. this photo showing smoke at the base of the tower fuels speculation that there was an explosion in the basement and the towers collapsed thereafter, though all pictures taken at that time, from hundreds of angles, suggest otherwise.

[edit to add:this photo is purportedly happening right before the collapse of the second tower and not immediately after the collapse of the first one.]

[BlackGriffen]

Re: the way Kennedy's head moves
Penn & Teller's show "Bullshit" had an interesting bit on this in their show on conspiracy theories. In it they fired a high powered rifle at a melon with some kind of tape around it. The melon, just like Kennedy's head, moved in the opposite direction as the bullet. It seems that there is very little momentum transferred from the bullet to the skull on entry, but quite a bit transferred from all the crap spewing out of the exit wound and the rest of the head.

It seems counterintuitive, but the taped up melon definitely behaved that way when shot. Now, whether you think that a taped up melon is an accurate model for a skull is another story.

BlackGriffen

[Face Ache]

Originally Posted by BlackGriffen

Now, whether you think that a taped up melon is an accurate model for a skull is another story.

Are we talking about old presidents or more recent ones?

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by BlackGriffen

It seems counterintuitive, but the taped up melon definitely behaved that way when shot. Now, whether you think that a taped up melon is an accurate model for a skull is another story.

BlackGriffen

A taped up melon is structurally similar to the cranium; both are pseudospheroids which will behave similarly when subjected to similar impacts. As I mentioned earlier, the shockwave from the bullet impact propagates around the spheroid and collides at a point that is usually close to the exit wound, causing catastrophic destruction at that point.

Further, the kind of bullet used is very important; a military rifle bullet will not fragment and deform on entry; in fact they often punch straight through fleshy tissue without causing significant damage beyond the puncture wound. On skulls, however, since the tissue is rigid, they cause significant damage because of the shockwave phenomenon. Also note that the velocity of such bullets is in the thousands of feet per second; they have a whole lot of kinetic energy, and unless they encounter something that stops or slows them down, they don't deposit much of that energy in the target.

[bergy]

Here's what some real snipers have to say on the plausibility of Oswalds performance ...

http://www.strike-the-root.com/51/herman/herman16.html

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by bergy

Here's what some real snipers have to say on the plausibility of Oswalds performance ...

Regular readers of STR know me as an avowed JFK-9-11 conspiracy freak. Indeed, I devoutly believe the same sort of people who conspired to kill Kennedy—wealthy, well-protected elites, war lovers and imperialists--also conspired to mastermind and thus profit from the events of 9-11.

http://www.strike-the-root.com/51/herman/herman16.html

[analogika]

Originally Posted by TETENAL

It sure as hell is great entertainment.

Correctinat3d™.

[stupendousman]

I'll believe that Oswald alone killed JFK when they can:

a. Get the "magic bullet" trajectory to line up with the autoposy photos (and not the medical illustrations used instead which moved the first entry wound up 5") showing the wound in Kennedy's back and not the back of his neck. Forget about how many shots you can get off. I believe that the FBI determined it would take at least 2.5 seconds per shot. Find me a bullet that changes course 6 or 7 times in a second, and does that kind of damage. Sorry, I don't buy it. Especially when you have to change the evidence (which there is evidence of) to make your claim to begin with.

b. Figure out why the doctors at Parkland that day, including the guy who was standing over Kennedy as they were working on them, the X-ray technician at the autopsy and the official autopsy photographer all say that there was a huge hole in the right rear of Kennedy's head and not in the front of his skull as the Warren Commission claims (meaning a shot would have had to come from the front). Many have even gone on the record as stating that there is no way that the "official" photographs represent what Kennedy's head looked like that day. If you take one guy and make this kind of claim...I'll buy the "conspiracy kook" angle. Having around 10 highly educated guys who were direct witnesses all saying the same thing kind of makes that label hard to stick if you ask me.

c. Convince those who ran the last congressional investigation, done after all the information kept out of the Warren Report was released who officially found that there was a likely conspiracy to change their minds.

Sorry...Occam's Razor has to rule here. I have no idea who did it, but looking at the scientific evidence it's highly unlikely for a one guy to have done what is claimed. You've got to stretch the imagination pretty thin, and Arlen Spector's yarns simply aren't so engrossing as to detach a reasonable person from reality in order to believe these fairy tales.

[analogika]

I'll take you seriously when you can

a. Get the "magic theory" to agree with what can actually be seen in this video.

b. Explain what "evidence (which there is evidence of)" was changed to make any claims to begin with.

c. Show me actual, verifyable quotes from the doctors at Parkland that day, and the X-ray technician, claiming the exact opposite of what is clearly visible in this video (which is that the front of his head blew off).

Mind that none of the above explains the background of the assassination, or why Oswald might have done it, and on whose bidding. That is a different matter.

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally Posted by BlackGriffen

Re: the way Kennedy's head moves
Penn & Teller's show "Bullshit" had an interesting bit on this in their show on conspiracy theories. In it they fired a high powered rifle at a melon with some kind of tape around it. The melon, just like Kennedy's head, moved in the opposite direction as the bullet. It seems that there is very little momentum transferred from the bullet to the skull on entry, but quite a bit transferred from all the crap spewing out of the exit wound and the rest of the head.

It seems counterintuitive, but the taped up melon definitely behaved that way when shot. Now, whether you think that a taped up melon is an accurate model for a skull is another story.

BlackGriffen

Hey BlackGriffen! Good to see you!

Has anyone seen "JFK: The Dallas Tapes?" They examine ALL the movies that might be even remotely pertinent to shedding light on the assassination. One of the films (not sure if it was the Nix film or whose) shows the School Book Depository 6th floor windows and you can see two distinct people moving around up there 30 minutes or so before the shooting.

The home movie camera operator was across the street or maybe a few dozen yards away and filming in that general direction toward the SBD but not focusing on it as much as just shooting whatever was before the lens. The producers of this documentary blew up the small portion of the 8mm movie film to isolate and focus on the 6th floor windows and there is unmistakable movement in what is thought of as the shooter's (Oswald's) window as well as one adjacent and several feet removed from where Oswald would have been.

It wasn't curtains or drapes blowing in the wind, either. It was a person. There were two people up there a half hour before JFK was shot.

I think I'd like someone to explain that for me before I'm convinced enough to proceed and then deal with the next troubling piece of evidence.

Until I get all or even MOST of these issues resolved I will remain unconvinced by the one shooter/Oswald theory.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk...sinationsC.htm

The House Select Committee on Assassinations concluded that "scientific acoustical evidence establishes a high probability that two gunmen fired at President John F. Kennedy." It added that "on the basis of the evidence available to it, that President John F. Kennedy was probably assassinated as a result of a conspiracy.

The HSCA was "unable to identify the other gunman or the extent of the conspiracy." However, it did discover evidence to suggest that anti-Castro Cubans were involved in the assassination. For example, an undercover agent heard Nestor Castellanos tell a meeting of anti-Castro Cubans, "We're waiting for Kennedy (on) the 22nd. We're going to see him in one way or another." The committee also obtained evidence that Lee Harvey Oswald met David Ferrie in New Orleans in the summer of 1963. It concluded that "individuals active in anti-Castro activities had the motive, means, and opportunity to assassinate President Kennedy".

The committee claimed that the Warren Commission "failed to investigate adequately the possibility of a conspiracy to assassinate the President." The report was also highly critical of the Secret Service: "The Secret Service was deficient in the performance of its duties. The Secret Service possessed information that was not properly analyzed, investigated or used by the Secret Service in connection with the President's trip to Dallas; in addition, Secret Service agents in the motorcade were inadequately prepared to protect the President from a sniper."

[aberdeenwriter]

BTW...here are some interesting audio clips of the Dallas Police Department police radio air traffic during and after the shooting!

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/dpdtapes/

The JFK Assassination Dallas Police Tapes

History in Real Time

This is history as it happened.
In the wake of the assassination, all hell broke loose on the two radio channels used by the Dallas Police Department. Although complicated by a technical glitch that took out Channel One (see below), the Dallas cops swung into action to clear the president's path to Parkland hospital, to find the killer or killers, to run down a variety of false leads and nuisances, and finally to capture the killer of one of their own.

What follows is the transcript of the Dallas police transmissions on both channels from 12:25 p.m, November 22nd, 1963, until the capture of Lee Oswald in the Texas Theater about 1:45 pm. Selected portions of the transmissions are available for listening in Real Media format. To hear these audio clips, you will need to have the Real Player downloaded and installed. Tramsmissions available as downloadable audio are highlighted in light orange. You can listen to them by clicking on the icon at the bottom of a particular segment.

The basis for these audio clips is an especially high-quality recording of the Dallas Police transmissions discovered by David Dix in the Minneapolis Public Library. Copies of this tape are available for sale. The transcript of Channel One is based on a transcript edited by Russ Shearer, and the transcript for Channel Two is from Warren Commission Exhibit 1974 (with some minor revisions).

[stupendousman]

Originally Posted by analogika

I'll take you seriously when you can

a. Get the "magic theory" to agree with what can actually be seen in this video.

I can't get any "magic theory" to agree with anything that can be seen in any video. I'm not sure what you are refering to.

b. Explain what "evidence (which there is evidence of)" was changed to make any claims to begin with.

The autopsy photos show 2 dark red marks on JFK's back. One several inches from the bottom of his neck, and another about 2 inches lower. The doctors at Parkland say that the upper mark was dried blood and the lower mark was an entrance wound. NEITHER potential wound area is in a location that could make it feasible for a bullet to be shot at a 17 degree angle from the book depository and exit from a wound in the middle of his neck. The bullet trajectory would have to either have been from the ground or as the doctors claim, the shot in the back had no exit wound and the shot in the neck was an entrance wound.

In order for the "magic bullet" theory to work, he'd have to have had the entrance wound for the first shot be somewhere on his neck. The Warren Commission autopsy ILLUSTRATIONS (they didn't use the actual photos to show their claims - they hired a medical illustrator to recreate the photos..for...some ...reason) puts the entrance wound about in the middle of his neck, making an exit from his neck at least within the realms of possible improbabilities.

c. Show me actual, verifyable quotes from the doctors at Parkland that day, and the X-ray technician, claiming the exact opposite of what is clearly visible in this video (which is that the front of his head blew off).

There is a documentary from the early nineties called "JFK: Case for Conspiracy" (and plenty of other books and magazine articles) that features interviews with all the people mentioned, a doctor who helped at the autopsy, at least one of the nurses. and and FBI agent who was present for the autopsy. Just a few years before that, the photographic evidence had been declassified and released. The general public, and the doctors in question hadn't seen the photos of JFK's actual wounds. When showed the "official" autopsy photos, all but ONE of the doctors claimed that the photos did not show JFK as they saw him that day. The one dissent came from a doctor whose notes at the time and prior claims all reflected him witnessing an exit wound on the back of the head, but seeing how the photos where "official" and there in black and white, that he must have mistakenly misremembered the state of JFK's body

I found a web site that features some of the testimony from the people who were actually there treating Kennedy at the time of his murder:

http://ourworld.cs.com/mikegriffith1/id89.htm

Several of the doctors go as far as stating that the "official" autopsy photos where faked. Well..for that, it's the memories (and written notes and illustrations at the time of the assassination) of well educated men and women concerning something they likely would never forget versus the "official" record. One person's word against another - no irrefutable proof. No one has yet to hear an explanation though as to why the location of the bullet wounds and position of the president at the time of impact (also misaligned in illustrations as compared to the Zapruder film) change from the autopsy photos and film evidence, to the "official" illustrations used to "prove" the "Magic Bullet" theory. If the illustrations are wrong, and the evidence shows clearly that they are (no wild imaginings or conspiracies needed), then there had to be more than one shooter.

Mind that none of the above explains the background of the assassination, or why Oswald might have done it, and on whose bidding. That is a different matter.

Oh..I totally agree. I don't believe in the impossibility of Oswald having been involved. Or at least I've never seen evidence that would conclusively rule him out. There is a lot of evidence to suggest such a thing, but no real "smoking gun" (pardon the pun) which makes it clearly impossible IF there were more than one shooter in addition to Oswald. There is clear evidence that there were more than 3 shots fired on Dealey Plaza that day. This is why the last Congressional investigation ruled that there was a likely conspiracy involved.

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by analogika

Correctinat3d™.

No, not "correctinat3d™". It's a great movie of the kind that is called "Spielfilm" in German. It's not a documentary, but it is a great movie.

[stupendousman]

Here's a page from the Washington Post detailing some of the discrepancies between what almost everyone who were direct witnesses say happened, and what some of the autopsy photos and 2 of the 3 doctors who examined JFK after his body left Dallas say happened.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...k/ap110998.htm

The third doctor claims to have participated in JFK brain exams days after the brain was supposed to have been buried with the President (which the other two guys...who seem to be the only physicians who examined him who will directly vouch for the autopsy photos showing an intact rear skull, claim never happened). The guy who took photos of the brain says not much was left at the time, yet the photos show an almost intact brain which was photographed using film that the official photographer didn't use.

Again..this isn't tinfoil hat stuff. There is direct evidence that the evidence regarding the JFK assasin was tampered with in order to support a lone gunman theory. But by eyewitness accounts of credible experts and direct photographic evidence...not conspiracy kooks. Again...even the 1976 Congressional Panel found a likely conspiracy.