[Cody Dawg]

Link

In a Ramadam sermon in a Sydney mosque, Sheik al-Hilali suggested that a group of Muslim men recently jailed for many years for gang rapes were not entirely to blame.

There were women, he said, who 'sway suggestively' and wore make-up and immodest dress "and then you get a judge without mercy and gives you 65 years. But the problem, but the problem all began with who?" he said, referring to the women victims.

Addressing 500 worshippers on the topic of adultery, Sheik al-Hilali added: "If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside on the street, or in the garden or in the park, or in the backyard without a cover, and the cats come and eat it..whose fault is it - the cats or the uncovered meat?

"The uncovered meat is the problem."

He went on: "If she was in her room, in her home, in her hijab (veil), no problem would have occurred."

And these people, like this Muslim cleric, consider themselves part of modern society?





What a joke.

[Dakar²]

I absolutely love the analogy.

[nonhuman]

That metaphor isn't even internally consistent. If we accept the comparison between women and meat (which I don't, just work with me here), then the fault doesn't lie with the meat, an inanimate object incapable of doing anything wrong or right, but with the person who left it out uncovered. Presumably this would be the husband or father.

So what this cleric really should be saying is that, 'so long as we treat our women like meat, it is the men who bear the responsibility for whatever goes wrong with them'. If the rapists weren't to be jailed (which they should have been, under this understanding, for violating someone else's property) then the 'owner' of the 'meat' is the one who is responsible, not the 'meat' itself.

As long as people are going to claim that women (or any other group of people) are nothing more than their property, then they have to be willing to accept the responsibilities of owning that property. Once they realize how much of a pain in the ass that is, maybe then they'll be willing to start changing their views.

[analogika]

American Christian Cleric Says Americans are "Sinners" and Deserved 9/11.

Can I start a thread? Please?

[badidea]

I don't see where he said that uncovered women deserve to be raped but he does compare those men with animals...which is quite correct!!

[Cody Dawg]

If you read the article via the link don't forget to see the "Comments" posted below the article...some of them are great.

[Sayf-Allah]

In a statement released on Thursday, Sheikh Hilali said he had been quoting another, unnamed, source and did not mean his words to condone rape.

"I unreservedly apologise to any woman who is offended by my comments. I had only intended to protect women's honour," the statement published in The Australian said.

"Women in our Australian society have the freedom and the right to dress as they choose.

"Whether a man endorses or not a particular form of dress, any form of harassment of women is unacceptable."

A spokesman for Sheikh Hilali earlier said the quote had been taken out of context and referred not to sexual assault, but to sexual infidelity.

The sermon was targeted against men and women who engaged in extra-marital sex and did so through alluring types of clothes, he said.

BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | Australia fury at cleric comments

....

[Cody Dawg]

Calling women "uncovered meat" is not a mistake in his wording.

He said it and it shows what he truly meant.

"Alluring types of clothes" means women. Again, he's subtle in his suggestion again that women wearing "alluring clothes" cause the problems, not the men who rape.



The guy should go back to Egypt and stay there. I hope they do deport him.

This comment is great:

What an outrage! These men are trying to set women's rights back to the stone age. I have experienced on many occassions, the husband/partner of the woman who is wearing the hijab staring me up and down even though I am moderately dressed, whilst their women are completely covered so only their eyes are showing. I find it entirely hypocritical that they are able to have a good old look at me, whilst their women are covered up! It is also the women who are stoned to death for committing adultery, not the men. Sheik al-Hilali says women, were 'weapons' used by Satan to control men. Seems it is the men who are controlling the women and blaming them for their own wickedness! Covering a woman from head to toe will never take away a man's urges to do what he wants to do. Never.

What barbarians this Muslim "cleric" and his followers are.

[Cody Dawg]

This is a great comment also:

Why the shock-horror reaction? Sheik al-Hilali was only expressing the normal view on the subject of rape in his country of origin and many other Islamic countries. In Egypt, women are always regarded as to blame for their own rape and are always harshly punished for their 'crime'. Doesn't everyone know this by now?

- J M Green, Lichfield, Staffs

[ShortcutToMoncton]

And, in other news, there are in fact areas of the world which do not enjoy the personal freedoms and individual rights usually present in the developed Western worlds.

[/shock]

greg

[Rumor]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

That metaphor isn't even internally consistent. If we accept the comparison between women and meat (which I don't, just work with me here), then the fault doesn't lie with the meat, an inanimate object incapable of doing anything wrong or right, but with the person who left it out uncovered. Presumably this would be the husband or father.

So what this cleric really should be saying is that, 'so long as we treat our women like meat, it is the men who bear the responsibility for whatever goes wrong with them'. If the rapists weren't to be jailed (which they should have been, under this understanding, for violating someone else's property) then the 'owner' of the 'meat' is the one who is responsible, not the 'meat' itself.

So the husband or father should be gang raped?

[tie]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

That metaphor isn't even internally consistent. If we accept the comparison between women and meat (which I don't, just work with me here), then the fault doesn't lie with the meat, an inanimate object incapable of doing anything wrong or right, but with the person who left it out uncovered.

Only if you don't think the "cats" deserve any blame. That's not a very flattering comparison, either.

[Wiskedjak]

Sheik al-Hilali
There were women, he said, who 'sway suggestively' and wore make-up and immodest dress "and then you get a judge without mercy and gives you 65 years. But the problem, but the problem all began with who?" he said, referring to the women victims.

Sound almost exactly like a standard North American rape defence statement.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg 

Calling women "uncovered meat" is not a mistake in his wording.

Actually, that's not quite accurate. He didn't call women "uncovered meat". Rather, he compared men with cats and women who "who 'sway suggestively' and [wear] make-up and immodest dress" with something that cats find irresistably tasty.

Still, not quite appropriate, but slightly different from how you are reading it, what with your knee constantly jerking.

[probablecause]

Even if his comments were taken out of context and they referred to sexual infidelity as opposed to rape -- they still illustrate how backward Islam is and how entirely incompatible it is with modern society. It still places the blame squarely on the woman.

Granted, I'm speaking as if my version of modern society is the ideal but I think that any society that treats men and women equally and with compassion and reason is the standard.

[CatLady]

Originally Posted by tie 

Only if you don't think the "cats" deserve any blame. That's not a very flattering comparison, either.

My cats have never raped me thank you very much!

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by analogika 

American Christian Cleric Says Americans are "Sinners" and Deserved 9/11.

Can I start a thread? Please?

Knock yourself out.


No, seriously, knock yourself out. Wanna borrow a hammer?

[itai195]

Seems pretty clear that he said if you keep women at home, all covered up, there'd be no problem. I don't see how that can be taken out of context. Can anyone say 'deported'?

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Sound almost exactly like a standard North American rape defence statement.

... that doesn't work.

Good luck getting that by a jury.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by tie 

Only if you don't think the "cats" deserve any blame. That's not a very flattering comparison, either.

Well yes, the cats deserve blame, as I said, for the violation of someone else's property, if nothing else.

I was trying to point out the absurdity of his argument... If what he said was the accepted view of things, the women would be blameless. The rapists are to blame for violating someone's property, and the father/husband are to blame (though not liable) for failing to adequately protect their property.

[Doofy]

I think I see the problem here. They're all so unused to seeing boobies that they have empty spank banks. And an empty spank bank means you've got no material to use when the sight of your dog's backside gives you a massive* boner. So you then have to go and rage in the streets and do stuff. Same root reason that they're raging in Iraq - empty spank bank and sexy canine botties.

(* Relatively speaking, of course. Everyone knows that even the smallest western boners are much larger than the ones those chaps could ever hope to muster.)

[goMac]

Originally Posted by analogika 

American Christian Cleric Says Americans are "Sinners" and Deserved 9/11.

Can I start a thread? Please?

You can find nuts in any religious group anywhere in the world. This isn't a "muslim" problem.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by goMac 

You can find nuts in any religious group anywhere in the world. This isn't a "muslim" problem.

Have you seen the persecution and abuse of women in Muslim countries first hand? I have, and it's astronomically more prevalent there. Just add a leash and you'd think a man was taking his dog out for a walk, instead of his wife... no, scratch that, in western countries dogs are treated with more respect.

[pooka]

Originally Posted by MacNStein 

no, scratch that, in western countries dogs are treated with more respect.

Well, some dogs cost quite a bit of money.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by MacNStein 

Have you seen the persecution and abuse of women in Muslim countries first hand? I have, and it's astronomically more prevalent there. Just add a leash and you'd think a man was taking his dog out for a walk, instead of his wife... no, scratch that, in western countries dogs are treated with more respect.

I've seen Christian men do that, too.

[Cody Dawg]

Like where?

Entire countries of Christian men covering their wives up in bags and stoning them to death for trivial offenses?

Please tell us all where that might be? 'Cause for all of the faults that Christians have we don't have the problem of oppressing and abusing women.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg 

'Cause for all of the faults that Christians have we don't have the problem of oppressing and abusing women.

At least, not anymore and not until rather recently in the history of the Christian faith ... though women still do not have the right to become ordained in the Roman Catholic Church. Not abuse, but certainly oppression.

[Spliffdaddy]

Most rapists are atheists, anyway.

[Cody Dawg]

You think so, Spliffdaddy?

What makes you say that?

[ink]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

I've seen Christian men do that, too.

While true (see Mormon fundamentalist polygamy "marriages" with 12-year-old brides), I think you'd agree that it's much less prevelant in Christianity, no?

[Spliffdaddy]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg 

You think so, Spliffdaddy?

What makes you say that?

I have no idea, really.

Seemed like a good way to get some of the Christian-bashers to blow a gasket.

[Cody Dawg]

Well, it's probably true.

Speaking of which, I notice that not many Muslim groups/organizations care about feeding the homeless, hungry, etc., in third world countries.

Er, wait, um...

[analogika]

The Hamas do, oddly enough.

[Sayf-Allah]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6090136.stm

He's been suspended for three months by................. the Muslim community.






But do continue to blame Islam and Muslims for this. Much easier than actually understanding anything.

[Sayf-Allah]

Originally Posted by analogika 

The Hamas do, oddly enough.

And Hezbollah as well.





(actually the vast majority of Muslim organisations and communities do but that wouldn't fit Cody's agenda of spreading hatred)

[PB2K]

I have seen a group of chatting buddhist monks who walked past a begging woman who could barely raise her hand. a that moment I really wondered why people respected these monks so much. I wouldn't be surprised when I saw a 'christan' cardinal do the same thing. also, I am not surprised at muslim clergy condemning homosexuality, women and terrorism. all these people have a job which is to teach about a book they've read hundreds of times. It's why they are so ignorant about the modern society they isolate themselves from.

clergy that is actively part of the society they live in have a much better understanding about it's problems and solutions. Hamas and hezbollah are political parties, they raise funds, they build schools, but it's for a political cause, not religious.

[Taliesin]

Originally Posted by MacNStein 

Have you seen the persecution and abuse of women in Muslim countries first hand? I have, and it's astronomically more prevalent there. Just add a leash and you'd think a man was taking his dog out for a walk, instead of his wife... no, scratch that, in western countries dogs are treated with more respect.

Depends in which islamic countries you were as well as which economic/social/cultural class you were observing, there are huge differences in attitude and behaviour towards women.

Usually uneducated women from rural areas have the least freedoms, while educated women from cities have the most freedoms, although not quite as much freedoms as western women.

There is also a marked difference between the middle-east, like Saudi-Arabia, and North-Africa like Morocco and Tunisia.

Taliesin

[Cody Dawg]

I have seen a group of chatting buddhist monks who walked past a begging woman who could barely raise her hand.

Well, part of the Buddhist philosophy is that people choose their own destinies. Maybe this woman chose to be poor and begging?

Also, Buddhist monks aren't exactly known for deep pockets. (Do their robes even have pockets?)

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy 

I have no idea, really.

Seemed like a good way to get some of the Christian-bashers to blow a gasket.

So, really, you were just trolling.

Of course, now it's become part of Cody's reality.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

I've seen Christian men do that, too.

Where, in one town in Utah? Get a clue.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by analogika 

American Christian Cleric Says Americans are "Sinners" and Deserved 9/11.

Can I start a thread? Please?

Nice straw-man.

[Cody Dawg]

Great post, Kevin.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Taliesin 

Depends in which islamic countries you were as well as which economic/social/cultural class you were observing, there are huge differences in attitude and behaviour towards women.

Usually uneducated women from rural areas have the least freedoms, while educated women from cities have the most freedoms, although not quite as much freedoms as western women.

There is also a marked difference between the middle-east, like Saudi-Arabia, and North-Africa like Morocco and Tunisia.

Taliesin

I've seen it happening openly in Egypt, Jordan, Iran, Syria, Saudi, Iraq, the UAE, Lebanon, Turkey, and Palestine. Not just every once in a while either, but everywhere I looked, every day I was visiting. In Riyadh I watched a man beat his wife in public, with what looked like a riding crop, and no one tried to stop him, though quite a few stopped to watch. A friend had to almost tackle me to keep me from kicking the sh*t out of the guy, which was a good idea, since spending a year in a Saudi prison probably would have sucked.

In all my life I'd never encountered such a paradox of brutality and beauty in one place, until I visited the ME.

[Cody Dawg]

I remember you saying that once, MacNStein.



The ME pretends to be modernized but in reality it is still...

Barbarians with Money™.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg 

Barbarians with Money™.

Every time I read a post by you on the subject of "justice" and law, that description seems a lot more appropriate to yourself.

[badidea]

Great post, analogika.

[Shaddim]

I'll agree, when I see her beating her husband bloody in the town square.

Wake up, you dumba$$ Lefty parrots.

[demograph68]

Originally Posted by badidea 

Great post, analogika.

Great post, analogika.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by MacNStein 

I'll agree, when I see her beating her husband bloody in the town square.

Wake up, you dumba$$ Lefty parrots.

Sorry, Mr. Righty parrot:

My comment wasn't really appropriate or relevant to this thread. It just struck me, coming from another of Cody's threads, that that really sums up what she is.

[Mark Larr]

Wow, at all of the barabric woman haters™.

Or is that muslims, I can't tell the difference.