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Tax reform the dramatic way (Page 2)
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andi*pandi
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Nov 9, 2017, 10:26 AM
 
Under this plan, teachers can no longer deduct if they buy school supplies from their own pocket.

So many teachers buy supplies because budgets are so low. At the beginning of school they ask for parents to send in tissues and cleaning supplies, fer crissakes.
     
The Final Dakar
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Nov 9, 2017, 10:49 AM
 
It also punishes people who pursue doctorates.

The entire plan is bonkers. Punishing the lower brackets, punishing academics, punishing blue states, rewarding the top brackets and companies.
     
The Final Dakar
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Nov 13, 2017, 06:02 PM
 
http://thehill.com/policy/finance/36...ore-house-vote
The Congressional Budget Office says it will be unable to do a full dynamic score of the House Republican tax reform bill that would show how it would effect the economy before a planned vote on Thursday.

In an estimate released Monday that said the bill would add $1.456 trillion to the deficit over the next decade, the CBO said it did not have the time to do a fuller analysis.
Is there a reason why they can't wait?
     
Laminar
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Nov 13, 2017, 07:00 PM
 
"Pass it to see what's in it."

"Owebama"
     
The Final Dakar
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Nov 14, 2017, 04:41 PM
 
Senate saying repealing the individual mandate will be part of the bill. This seems crazy but they need it because it helps fund their tax cuts. They also need to pass it before the AL runoff or else they're dealing with a new problem.
     
reader50  (op)
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Nov 14, 2017, 06:29 PM
 
ANOTHER attack on the ACA? Don't they do anything else?
     
Waragainstsleep
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Nov 14, 2017, 06:58 PM
 
I established in more than one other thread that the GOP has done literally nothing of value in 40 years or so. Their entire purpose is to line their own pockets via tax breaks and deregulation.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Laminar
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Nov 14, 2017, 07:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
I established
You asserted.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Nov 14, 2017, 08:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
You asserted.
No-one was able to refute it despite a couple of attempts. The closest anyone got involved giving the GOP credit for the collapse of the Soviet Union which frankly is quite a stretch.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Laminar
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Nov 14, 2017, 09:15 PM
 
You didn't accept any refutations.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Nov 15, 2017, 01:21 AM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
You didn't accept any refutations.
They were feeble to non-existent. Feel free to try again.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
The Final Dakar
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Nov 15, 2017, 09:19 AM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
ANOTHER attack on the ACA? Don't they do anything else?
Like I said, they need the money it saves to help pay tax cuts to corporations and the rich
     
The Final Dakar
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Nov 16, 2017, 12:24 PM
 
This bill will raise taxes on the bottom to pay for tax cuts for the top. This is worse than losing breaks caricature of the GOP!
     
The Final Dakar
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Nov 16, 2017, 02:30 PM
 
Breezily passed the house. Not sure I understand the logic at play.
     
Laminar
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Nov 16, 2017, 05:26 PM
 
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017...in-senate.html

The final version scaled back some popular deductions while cutting the corporate tax rate to 20 percent from 35 percent.
We were concerned about Hillary's preferential treatment of corporations, no?

[quote]King was part of a small group of House Republicans from New York and New Jersey who rebelled because the House plan would erase tax deductions for state and local income and sales taxes

So now I get to pay taxes on my taxes? This hurts high-tax states the most, ie California.

and limit property tax deductions to $10,000.
I'm on board with this.


Tax bracket rearrangement seems to favor everyone, and doubling the standard deduction favors lower income families, as those >$40k tend to itemize.

Overall, I haven't read an analysis of the bill that explains how it will pay for itself. Economists' estimates at growth due to the tax bill are far below the $1.7 trillion that this will add to the defect. Owebama? Fiscal responsibility?
     
The Final Dakar
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Nov 16, 2017, 05:33 PM
 
This is from twitter, so I imagine its not gospel, but many of the points have been corroborated by articles I've read.


It triggering automatic medicare cuts has gone under the radar.

Removing deductions for charitable giving is probably the most bald-faced example of how they're trimming anything they can to finance tax cuts for the rich.

After Katrina, there's a valid point to be made that reducing/removing SALT deductions and student load deductions, and how doctorate work is taxed is a purposeful **** you to blue states and/or liberals.
     
The Final Dakar
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Nov 16, 2017, 05:36 PM
 
Also, they know they're selling you a lie: https://twitter.com/TimJHanrahan/sta...81095988170757
1. Tax-overhaul backers say corporate rate cut will encourage investment by businesses
2. During #wsjceocouncil interview with Gary Cohn, WSJ asks CEOs to raise hands if they'll boost investment if rates cut
3. Few CEOS raise hands
4. Cohn asks: "Why aren't the other hands up?"
Isn't this tax package trickle-down on steroids?

Doesn't it actually redistribute money from the bottom brackets to the top?
     
Laminar
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Nov 16, 2017, 05:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Removing deductions for charitable giving is probably the most bald-faced example of how they're trimming anything they can to finance tax cuts for the rich.
Everything I've seen says that the deduction for donating to charities is still there. Doubling the standard deduction would reduce incentive for those that currently itemize to donate, they'll just take the standard deduction instead and not bother donating enough to itemize.
     
The Final Dakar
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Nov 16, 2017, 06:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Everything I've seen says that the deduction for donating to charities is still there. Doubling the standard deduction would reduce incentive for those that currently itemize to donate, they'll just take the standard deduction instead and not bother donating enough to itemize.
I wonder if this reflects what was known of the senate bill a few days ago. House is a different animal.
     
reader50  (op)
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Nov 20, 2017, 02:09 PM
 
Administration officials over the weekend said they'd be willing to drop the ACA hits in exchange for passing the rest of the tax bill.

So we finally found something more important to them than clipping health care: reducing taxes on the wealthy.

However, it appears the tax bill is doomed anyway. It raises the deficit, officially by 1.4 trillion. But when you count "temporary" measures that Congress won't actually let expire, the real impact probably runs 2+ trillion. Hits so many services that multiple Reps cannot ignore it - they'd lose re-election. And a few deficit hawks stick by their positions even when their party is in power. The hawks are ready to vote down any budget that increases the deficit.

Between all the problems, I'm not seeing how they can muster the votes. My prediction: it will play out much like the ACA attacks did. Lots of lip service, vote eventually loses (or is cancelled), followed by bipartisan negotiations. A temporary funding measure is passed because they blew so much time, followed by a more conventional budget.
     
The Final Dakar
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Nov 20, 2017, 02:33 PM
 
Counterpoint: it already passed the House in some form. It screws CA GOP constituents and they still voted for it.

I'll be real surprised if any senate deficit hawks actually vote against. I think we're back in the Murkowski/Collins zone only it will be easier to buy them off
     
The Final Dakar
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Nov 21, 2017, 06:13 PM
 
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-in-house-bill
Investors in billion-dollar hedge funds might be able to take advantage of a new, lower tax rate touted as a break for small businesses. Private equity fund managers might be able to sidestep a new tax on their earnings. And a combination of proposed changes might allow the children and grandchildren of the very wealthy to avoid income taxes in perpetuity.
The House bill would limit the tax to even fewer estates right away, and then eliminate it entirely in 2025. But it leaves in place a related measure that allows heirs to sell assets without having to pay income tax on the appreciation that took place before they inherited them.

Taken together, that means that a family whose fortune derives from a long-held asset -- think Warren Buffett’s Berkshire Hathaway Inc., or the Walton family’s Wal-Mart Stores Inc. -- might never have to pay tax on the bulk of that wealth at all. The founding generation could borrow against the stock to meet expenses, and the next generation could sell it income tax-free.
     
The Final Dakar
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Nov 22, 2017, 09:15 AM
 
Murkowski is in on repealing the individual mandate. Big get.
     
The Final Dakar
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Nov 27, 2017, 10:26 PM
 
“What if this doesn’t work?” Lankford asked hypothetically Monday referring to tax cuts in the Senate plan. “What changes might be needed in the tax code in the days ahead to be able to adjust in what scenario? So if the revenue’s not coming in, should the rates change? All of those are in conversation.”

He wouldn’t explain precisely what these new rates might look like or how they would be triggered. Lankford’s comments suggest that one solution he is eyeing would be automatically raising tax rates if tax revenue come in below the GOP’s optimistic forecasts.
Republicans are so unconvinced by this tax cuts = revenue BS they want to actually insert language that triggers tax raises if revenue falls sharply.

Jesus, just kill the bill already!
     
The Final Dakar
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Nov 30, 2017, 07:12 PM
 
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...ast-tax-hikes/
The bill is less popular than HW's tax hike from 90. That's insane. But not as insane as the GOP being seemingly unaffected by this.
     
 
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