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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > The Casting Couch Takes Pity on the Potted Plant: Weinstein

The Casting Couch Takes Pity on the Potted Plant: Weinstein (Page 3)
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Chongo
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Oct 17, 2017, 09:38 AM
 
Originally Posted by CymbalMonkey View Post
No-one is really. It was brought up in another thread by a question specifically about the church and you've been trying to deflect and defend and point fingers at other people and industries ever since as if that someone excuses the church or makes them look less bad.
I’ve said it before, any Priest, Deacon, or Bishop guilty of abuse needs to go to prison.
It’s like you and Paco believe every Bishop, Priest, and Deacon is engaging in abuse.

That said, Hollywood doesn't isn't a babysitter, a school, a daycare. Its capitalist free market and its apparently desperately short on regulation. The church is supposed to be the source of guidance and a moral compass for its subscribers. Those dishing out such moral guidance should be expected to be good examples of it themselves so to do what they did, and hide it the way they did is just hypocrisy of worst order. Salt in an already very painful wound.



Prevention is better than cure here as much as anywhere but you don't get brownie points for not f***ing the children placed under your care. Its baseline decent behaviour.
You are aware that children under 18 attend school on studio grounds while filming is in progress?

Teachers are not "ours". They don't belong to atheism and they don't belong to the left. Especially not in America.
Just who do think controls the public schools and the teachers unions here?



I would say you need to put aside your hatred of Hollywood but I honestly think the healthier course would be to temper your love of the church. A level of dedication to one group of humans that sees the instant and unthinking forgiveness of systemised child rape going back decades if not centuries while obsessively attacking other groups for lesser instances of the same crimes (I say lesser only because the cover up is less organised).
Less organized? Not according to the Dept of Ed report.
The only ones showing hate and obsessively attacking a group are you and Paco. I make a point in a thread and the reply is what about all those Priests that abuse children.
From the “Evolution thread”
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
Who were these “old timey” people? They can’t be that old timey because there are photographs of both men.
Originally Posted by Paco500 View Post
So abuse scandals that were still going strong this century are in the past and not relevant, but the (far) past scientific primacy of the Church is?

One of your guys died in the 1800's and the other one published his Big Bang paper in 1927.

Why is there a statue of limitations for child abuse but not science?
I knew once I posted the Corey Feldman clips one of you would fire back about the Church. That was expected. This time it was besson.
"The blood of the martyrs is the seed of the church" Saint Tertullian, 197 AD
     
Waragainstsleep
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Oct 17, 2017, 09:46 AM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
I’ve said it before, any Priest, Deacon, or Bishop guilty of abuse needs to go to prison.
It’s like you and Paco believe every Bishop, Priest, and Deacon is engaging in abuse.
How many have been punished not for abuse, but for sending abusers back to work with children or for covering up abuse?

Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
You are aware that children under 18 attend school on studio grounds while filming is in progress?
Are you attacking their tutors as part of the department of education or as part of Hollywood?

Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
Just who do think controls the public schools and the teachers unions here?
In places where they teach ID and creationism and sideline evolution in science classrooms I'm gonna say its not liberals.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Laminar
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Oct 17, 2017, 10:26 AM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
Then why focus only on the Church?
I'm not. I'm just reminding you what you seem to be forgetting about way up there on your high horse.
     
Laminar
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Oct 17, 2017, 10:27 AM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
Priests are guilty until proven innocent.
Did you wait until Weinstein was proven guilty to condemn all of Hollywood and mock the victims of sexual assault?
     
Chongo
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Oct 17, 2017, 10:35 AM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
I'm not. I'm just reminding you what you seem to be forgetting about way up there on your high horse.
It’s hard to forget when WAS, Paco, etc continual remind me.
"The blood of the martyrs is the seed of the church" Saint Tertullian, 197 AD
     
Laminar
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Oct 17, 2017, 12:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
It’s hard to forget when WAS, Paco, etc continual remind me.
Then is it weird that you're trying to make a contest out of who's more abusive?

Also, don't forget about my question above.
     
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Oct 17, 2017, 12:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
It’s hard to forget when WAS, Paco, etc continual remind me.
I imagine you genuinely believe that I have a special dislike of the Catholic Church. I do not. There are certainly other organisations, religious or otherwise, that I find more objectionable.

I'm not writing posts about them because no one on this board is holding them up as a paragon of virtue or above reproach.

When you regularly post about the unassailable moral authority of the Catholic Church on a forum dedicated to discussion and debate, you should expect that those who disagree with your point of view would argue against it.

Myself, WAS, etc bring up the clear failings of the Church in response to your posts arguing that they don't exist. Is your desire that we ignore you? If you don't want your ideas discussed and challenged, why are you positing them here? Are you trying to covert us?
     
Laminar
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Oct 17, 2017, 12:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by Paco500 View Post
Myself, WAS, etc bring up the clear failings of the Church in response to your posts arguing that they don't exist.
He doesn't claim that the Church didn't have problems. He may claim that the Church currently doesn't have problems? But he for sure is trying to paint other entities as worse than the Church.
     
Chongo
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Oct 17, 2017, 12:49 PM
 
Excuse me, I pointed out that my own Pastor was accused. The report I posted in another thread details that there are still cases being brought forward. The new cases are dropping to single digits, there needs to be zero.
"The blood of the martyrs is the seed of the church" Saint Tertullian, 197 AD
     
Chongo
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Oct 17, 2017, 12:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Did you wait until Weinstein was proven guilty to condemn all of Hollywood and mock the victims of sexual assault?
No. If pointing out Ashley Judd’s nasty woman speech and her years of silence is mocking her, sorry.
"The blood of the martyrs is the seed of the church" Saint Tertullian, 197 AD
     
Paco500
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Oct 17, 2017, 01:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
I’ve said it before, any Priest, Deacon, or Bishop guilty of abuse needs to go to prison.
It’s like you and Paco believe every Bishop, Priest, and Deacon is engaging in abuse.
This statement is the crux of where our world views diverge. You argue that the abuse (past and almost certainly still ongoing) is the result of a few bad apples. I believe the problem is systemic and built into the fabric of the Church.

Part 1:

The Church (and this is in no way limited to the Roman church) regularly drills into the heads of it's followers that they are inherently flawed, sinful, and stained by evil. When someone who lives this message day in and out, such as a clergyman, begins to have inappropriate urges or desires, they can comfort themselves with the knowledge they are no worse than anyone else. Those urges move to action, and the justification is well and truly in place- everyone is a sinner, it's not that bad.

Part 2:

On this forum we regularly hear some variation on the refrain 'Priests are flawed, just like everyone else- no-one should expect them to be perfect.' But the reality is that clergy are held in high esteem in the Church- they are granted moral authority. The are called 'Father,' and 'Reverend' and 'Your Excellency'. Their status is reflected in countless ways- from how they dress to where where they stand and sit during the service. They may not be worshiped, but they are revered. Children are taught to respect them, to do what they say, and in the Catholic Church, there is the added component of confession- what is said (and by extension happens) between you and the Priest is secret- a sacred, sacramental, secret. Of course abuse is going to follow, and as abuse always falls on the venerable most heavily, of course it's going to be the kids.

Part 3.

The status established in part 2 is no different than the status in any other organisation or community- the offender of high status gets away with all manner of things a lower status person never could. There is no way Jamie Kennedy could have gotten away with 5% of what Harvey Weinstein did. And Harvey's status was down to earthly success- the status of the clergy is backed by God. So the victims are either not believed, or too ashamed, or too intimidated to say anything.

Its the construct that's broken and I don't believe it's fixable. I believe you when you say you think 'any Priest, Deacon, or Bishop guilty of abuse needs to go to prison.' The difference is that I think while that's a good first step, it's treating a symptom, not the disease. You seem unable to acknowledge the disease even exists.
     
Paco500
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Oct 17, 2017, 01:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
He doesn't claim that the Church didn't have problems. He may claim that the Church currently doesn't have problems? But he for sure is trying to paint other entities as worse than the Church.
I disagree. He can correct me if I'm wrong, but while he has acknowledged there are bad people within the Church, the Church itself is blameless.

I may, however, be conflating his arguments with CPT who wrote:

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants
The Church is stainless, yet Christians are people who are capable of sin just like anyone else.
     
Paco500
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Oct 17, 2017, 01:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
Excuse me, I pointed out that my own Pastor was accused.
Let's look at what you actually said in that post.

Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
Unlike Hollywood, the Church has taken steps to correct the problem. In fact the Pastor at my parish resigned after he was falsely accused. The Diocese brought in an outside investigation company that specializes in these cases and cleared him. When it comes to abuse charges today, Priests are guilty until proven innocent.
This post is not acknowledging the failings in your Church, it was pointing out the speck in Hollywood's eye while arguing the Church had procedures in place to remove the plank it it's own.
     
Chongo
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Oct 17, 2017, 01:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by Paco500 View Post
I imagine you genuinely believe that I have a special dislike of the Catholic Church. I do not. There are certainly other organisations, religious or otherwise, that I find more objectionable.

I'm not writing posts about them because no one on this board is holding them up as a paragon of virtue or above reproach.

When you regularly post about the unassailable moral authority of the Catholic Church on a forum dedicated to discussion and debate, you should expect that those who disagree with your point of view would argue against it.

Myself, WAS, etc bring up the clear failings of the Church in response to your posts arguing that they don't exist. Is your desire that we ignore you? If you don't want your ideas discussed and challenged, why are you positing them here? Are you trying to convert us?
Here is the thing, every time there is another “the Church hates science thread” or other similar threads, I post information that shows otherwise. The envevitable reponse from you is oh yeah, but what about all those abusive priests. Those are old dudes and they are long dead, and what about all those abuse priests.

When I show that abuse is just as much a problem in other organizations it’s deflect deflect deflect.

You need to get it in your head I have acknowledged the failings of the Church on more than one occasion.
"The blood of the martyrs is the seed of the church" Saint Tertullian, 197 AD
     
Chongo
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Oct 17, 2017, 01:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by Paco500 View Post
Let's look at what you actually said in that post.



This post is not acknowledging the failings in your Church, it was pointing out the speck in Hollywood's eye while arguing the Church had procedures in place to remove the plank it it's own.
You have a Redwood in your eye when it comes the Church.
"The blood of the martyrs is the seed of the church" Saint Tertullian, 197 AD
     
Paco500
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Oct 17, 2017, 02:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
Here is the thing, every time there is another “the Church hates science thread” or other similar threads, I post information that shows otherwise. The envevitable reponse from you is oh yeah, but what about all those abusive priests. Those are old dudes and they are long dead, and what about all those abuse priests.
I'll own it if I'm wrong, but I don't think I ever posted a similar sentiment to that on a 'Church hates science thread.'

Can you cite where I have?

I don't remember ever thinking about the contradiction between 'Bad stuff? That was five years ago- all in the past' and 'Good stuff? That was 100 years ago and it's terribly relevant to this conversation.'
     
Paco500
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Oct 17, 2017, 02:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
You have a Redwood in your eye when it comes the Church.
Yeah, well, you've got that redwood's grandad in yours.

Damn, a cymbal playing monkey gif sure would come in handy about now if it wasn't banned.
     
The Final Dakar
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Oct 18, 2017, 07:50 PM
 
Point that has been rolling around my head for a bit
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...eplace/543069/
Still, it was surreal to see pundits employed by populist news organizations that didn’t break the story characterizing it as a dark moment for the liberal mainstream media.

Take Sean Hannity, who works at the Fox News, which didn’t break the story, and beneath Rupert Murdoch, who owns all sorts of media properties that didn’t break the story. “Everybody in Hollywood knew. This wasn't a secret,” Hannity declared. “Everybody knew apparently in the news media too, and everybody in the political world.”

Did Brit Hume know? Did Bret Baier? Did Chris Wallace?
A similar dearth of self-awareness played out at Breitbart. Its namesake founder, Andrew Breitbart, created a “Big Hollywood” vertical way back in 2009 with the explicit mission of taking down an industry he regarded as deeply corrupt and filled with bad people. It is hard to imagine a scoop that would’ve been more beloved to the Los Angeles-based company than taking down a huge producer and major Democratic donor.

Yet the publication didn’t have a clue as to the truth about Harvey Weinstein. (Its focus was … elsewhere.)
Basically it's easy to know about something, it's much harder to prove it.

I've been racking my brains about other personalities this could apply to. Terry Richardson and Dan Schneider come to mind.
Or industries. Think US Gymnastics. rumors have swirled there, but good luck proving shit. Maroney just released letter about her experience but its hard to believe this one man was alone or nobody had suspicions.
     
subego
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Oct 20, 2017, 01:43 PM
 
Bryan Singer is the only one I feel sure enough to talk about.

I did hear about Subway Jared a good five years before he got nailed.
     
The Final Dakar
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Oct 20, 2017, 01:45 PM
 
I forgot to add Scientology.

...and yes Singer is on that other open secret, the gay casting couch
     
subego
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Oct 20, 2017, 01:46 PM
 
I've heard he skews kinda young.
     
subego
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Oct 20, 2017, 01:48 PM
 
Speaking of... "I pulled out my Beretta" should be on the list.
     
The Final Dakar
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Oct 20, 2017, 01:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I've heard he skews kinda young.
I think I've heard that but not anywhere close to my assertion
     
subego
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Oct 20, 2017, 02:00 PM
 
Surprise! I'm confused...

Which assertion?
     
The Final Dakar
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Oct 20, 2017, 02:06 PM
 
Regular gay casting couch
     
subego
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Oct 20, 2017, 02:13 PM
 
I think I understand.

The only connection between the two in this context, and the only connection I'm making, is Singer is alleged to be guilty of both.
     
subego
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Oct 20, 2017, 02:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Or industries...
Sort of an industry which caters to industries example.

My understanding is skeevy shit goes down at conventions. All types, not just nerdy ones.

It gets suppressed because organizers don't want their convention nicknamed "RapeCon".
     
The Final Dakar
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Oct 21, 2017, 06:42 PM
 
This is why you don't get cocky about Weinstein on a political basis
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifes...f98_story.html
The New York Times said Bill O’Reilly agreed to the settlement in January with Lis Wiehl, a longtime legal analyst at Fox who had worked with O’Reilly and had once offered him legal advice.

Despite knowledge of a settlement with Wiehl, Fox renewed its contract with O’Reilly in February, paying him $25 million per year over four years, the paper said.
This guy is a 'catholic'
     
Chongo
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Oct 21, 2017, 11:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
This is why you don't get cocky about Weinstein on a political basis
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifes...f98_story.html

This guy is a 'catholic'
...so was Al Capone, Bugsy Siegel was a Jew.
https://aleteia.org/2017/10/19/shari...cular-sinners/
( Last edited by Chongo; Oct 22, 2017 at 10:56 AM. )
"The blood of the martyrs is the seed of the church" Saint Tertullian, 197 AD
     
The Final Dakar
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Oct 22, 2017, 03:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
...so was Al Capone, Bugsy Siegel was a Jew.
https://aleteia.org/2017/10/19/shari...cular-sinners/
I'm pointing out that you seem to have more religious respect for someone who sexually harasses and assaults women because he's pro-life than for someone who treats women well, but supports their right to choose.
     
Chongo
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Oct 22, 2017, 05:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
I'm pointing out that you seem to have more religious respect for someone who sexually harasses and assaults women because he's pro-life than for someone who treats women well, but supports their right to choose.
Like Bill Clinton?
"The blood of the martyrs is the seed of the church" Saint Tertullian, 197 AD
     
subego
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Oct 24, 2017, 03:53 AM
 
     
The Final Dakar
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Oct 24, 2017, 10:22 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
This doesn't surprise me in the least
     
The Final Dakar
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Oct 24, 2017, 10:22 AM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
Like Bill Clinton?
That's a deflection
     
The Final Dakar
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Oct 24, 2017, 10:23 AM
 
Terry Richardson getting blowback in the news, thankfully
     
besson3c
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Oct 24, 2017, 10:28 AM
 
It's interesting how unaware men (like myself) are of this sort of thing happening all the time, whether it is a flagrant abuse of power like Weinstein, or just "smaller" offences like ordering women to smile more from a position of power (including physical stature).
     
subego
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Oct 25, 2017, 02:53 PM
 
GHWButtgrabber?
     
andi*pandi
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Oct 25, 2017, 03:29 PM
 
I don't think Barb would stand for that.
     
subego
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Oct 25, 2017, 04:20 PM
 
She allegedly stared some daggers at him for it.
     
andi*pandi
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Oct 25, 2017, 07:48 PM
 
Without an article, I either a) surmised you were kidding, or b) thought this would be in reference to something long ago. Instead I find this allegedly happened this year while GHWB was wheelchair bound? With his wife and a camera crew standing right there?

     
subego
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Oct 25, 2017, 09:40 PM
 
I saw it as a story... on frickin FOX News, and I still thought it had to be a joke.
     
subego
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Oct 26, 2017, 12:44 AM
 
As for past indiscretions, from 1992...



Thank god we got that womanizer out.
     
The Final Dakar
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Oct 26, 2017, 10:48 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
GHWButtgrabber?
Finally caught this. The shocking part is its recent
     
The Final Dakar
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Oct 26, 2017, 11:08 AM
 
Down goes Halperin. Wonder if a lot of men in tv and film have started sweating.
     
The Final Dakar
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Oct 26, 2017, 12:25 PM
 
Just realized, Leo LaPorte being fingered is way overdue
     
subego
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Oct 26, 2017, 02:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
fingered
Narg, narg, narg.

The guy's clearly a walking HR nightmare, but at this point, I'm thinking whose career can he wreck?

As an aside, in the context of #metoo, she didn't name names, but Sarah Lane noted over 50% of her bosses crossed what she considers to be the line.
     
subego
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Oct 26, 2017, 02:23 PM
 
Knew I should have checked the hate site for updates before discussing Leo.

Again, no names mentioned, but Sarah's comments prompted this from Snubs...



     
Chongo
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Oct 26, 2017, 05:26 PM
 
et tu Ellen?
"The blood of the martyrs is the seed of the church" Saint Tertullian, 197 AD
     
The Final Dakar
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Oct 26, 2017, 05:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Narg, narg, narg.

The guy's clearly a walking HR nightmare, but at this point, I'm thinking whose career can he wreck?

As an aside, in the context of #metoo, she didn't name names, but Sarah Lane noted over 50% of her bosses crossed what she considers to be the line.
My first thoughts were ijustine and Veronica Belmont
     
The Final Dakar
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Oct 26, 2017, 05:57 PM
 
Also Scoble did a denial of technicality which is the biggest red flag I've seen in a while. Practically Red pill quality
     
 
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