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Police discrimination, misconduct, Ferguson, MO, the Roman Legion, and now math??? (Page 21)
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BadKosh
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Dec 4, 2014, 12:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Where do you come up with this shit? His not-amnesty is a fraction of the already legal Mexican population in the US. That ship sailed a while ago.


...and worthy of a death sentence. Better the alleged criminal dies than escapes to... sell unmarked cigarettes another day?
Live by the sword, DIE by the sword. By your standards we should just let criminals go do whatever....
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Dec 4, 2014, 12:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
Live by the sword, DIE by the sword.
What sword? Your argument is that if you ever engage in criminal behavior a judge and juryless death sentence is on the table? This is medieval justice. Might as well start chopping hands off again.

Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
By your standards we should just let criminals go do whatever....
Oh please, elucidate for me where that was inferred.

Edit: Why am I arguing with you, you're nuts
     
Powerbook
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Dec 4, 2014, 02:05 PM
 
Michael Brown’s adult criminal record:

Description: Burglary – 1st Degree { Felony B RSMo: 569.160 }
Date: 11/02/2013 Code: 1401000
OCN: AJ006207 Arresting Agency: ST ANN PD
Description: Armed Criminal Action { Felony Unclassified RSMo: 571.015 }
Date: 11/02/2013 Code: 3101000
OCN: AJ006207 Arresting Agency: ST ANN PD
Description: Assault 1st Degree – Serious Physical Injury { Felony A RSMo:565.050 }
Date: 11/02/2013 Code: 1301100
OCN: AJ006207 Arresting Agency: ST ANN PD
Description: Armed Criminal Action { Felony Unclassified RSMo: 571.015 }
Date: 11/02/2013 Code: 3101000
OCN: AJ006207 Arresting Agency: ST ANN PD

Aut Caesar aut nihil.
     
subego
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Dec 4, 2014, 02:05 PM
 
As an aside, I burnt out my analysis circuits dealing with the Brown GJ shit. I'm giving them a breather, which is why I'm not commenting on the kid being shot, or the chokehold case.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Dec 4, 2014, 02:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
As an aside, I burnt out my analysis circuits dealing with the Brown GJ shit. I'm giving them a breather, which is why I'm not commenting on the kid being shot, or the chokehold case.
You're only human. Maybe.
     
OAW
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Dec 4, 2014, 02:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by Powerbook View Post
Well, apparently the Gentle Giant was no stranger to the gang behaviour:


Anyone wants to guess what type of behaviour would come from emulating da thugs?
Oh you mean how right-wing media outlets (e.g. Top Conservative News where you got that particular image from) went ballistic claiming that Capt. Ron Johnson of the Missouri Highway Patrol was "throwing up gang signs" with Ferguson protestors?



Even though it's really a sign used by Kappa Alpha Psi ... one of the oldest African-American collegiate fraternities?

Or how these same right-wing media outlets went nuts claiming that Minneapolis Mayor Betsy Hodges was "throwing up gang signs" with a convicted felon?



But apparently they are just pointing at each other when she's standing next to a white dude? #pointergate



Originally Posted by Powerbook View Post
Even if you ignore da skreet life,
Trying to spell what you think is black street slang only makes you look like an idiot. You really shouldn't go there. Just saying ...

But yeah, apparently it's "da skreet life" with Mike Brown ...



But for the Man In Black ...



... not so much.

Or perhaps the real issue is that conservatives are just plain clueless about what is or is not a "gang sign"? Or maybe it's just some ignorant white people think that a black male making any sort of gesture with his hands automatically makes him a gang member?



After all, it's these same right-wing media outlets that swore on a stack of bibles that this was Trayvon Martin ...



Even though in the "real world" it's really an LA rapper named The Game.

It was these same right-wing media outlets ... including one of the conservative right's favorite House Negro apologists Larry Elder ... that propagated the lie that this was Darren Wilson after his encounter with Mike Brown ...



Even though in the "real world" it was actually this ....



Real neat trick how Mike Brown supposedly caused that traumatic "injury" to his RIGHT cheek from outside the driver window of the SUV on his LEFT side.



Yeah. That's what anyone would look like after a 6' 5" 285 LB man beat you in the face REPEATEDLY to the point where you thought you were going to get KTFO. Right?

By nearly all the accounts of the family and friends who actually knew him Mike Brown was a typical teenager ....




But hey ... feel free to continue to deem yourself an expert on the lives of people you don't know based on a couple of photos and a false narrative from conservative media.

OAW
( Last edited by OAW; Dec 4, 2014 at 06:37 PM. )
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Dec 4, 2014, 02:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
The 70s
Isn't 40 years enough time for a progressive government to correct that?
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OAW
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Dec 4, 2014, 02:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by Powerbook View Post
Michael Brown’s adult criminal record:

Description: Burglary – 1st Degree { Felony B RSMo: 569.160 }
Date: 11/02/2013 Code: 1401000
OCN: AJ006207 Arresting Agency: ST ANN PD
Description: Armed Criminal Action { Felony Unclassified RSMo: 571.015 }
Date: 11/02/2013 Code: 3101000
OCN: AJ006207 Arresting Agency: ST ANN PD
Description: Assault 1st Degree – Serious Physical Injury { Felony A RSMo:565.050 }
Date: 11/02/2013 Code: 1301100
OCN: AJ006207 Arresting Agency: ST ANN PD
Description: Armed Criminal Action { Felony Unclassified RSMo: 571.015 }
Date: 11/02/2013 Code: 3101000
OCN: AJ006207 Arresting Agency: ST ANN PD

It would appear you have elected to persist with such foolishness. More reason why you should take what you gather from right-wing media outlets .... and that includes conservative bloggers like Charles C. Johnson ... with a grain of salt. Especially when the topic has anything to do with minorities.

As a child, Michael Brown was never found delinquent of the juvenile equivalents of Missouri’s most serious felony charges and was not facing any at the time he died, a court official said Wednesday.

The Post-Dispatch filed a petition Aug. 22 asking a judge in the St. Louis County Family Court to open any juvenile records on Brown, the unarmed 18-year-old shot to death last month by a Ferguson police officer. A conservative blogger from California had separately requested the records be opened.

Police had said earlier that Brown had no adult criminal record.

The petitions went to a hearing Tuesday with St. Louis County Family Court Judge Ellen Levy Siwak, who took the case under advisement.

But disclosures during and after the hearing on Tuesday put to rest claims by blogger Charles C. Johnson and others that Brown was facing a murder charge at the time he was shot to death.
Juvenile court: Michael Brown had no most-serious felony convictions or pending cases : STLToday.com

OAW
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Dec 4, 2014, 02:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
Oh you mean how right-wing media outlets (e.g. Top Conservative News where you got that particular image from) went ballistic claiming that Capt. Ron Johnson of the Missouri Highway Patrol was "throwing up gang signs" with Ferguson protestors?

...

But hey ... feel free to continue to deem yourself an expert on the lives of people you don't know based on a couple of photos and a false narrative from conservative media.

OAW
Yeah, his history of violent crime has nothing to do with it.

Originally Posted by Powerbook View Post
Michael Brown’s adult criminal record:

Description: Burglary – 1st Degree { Felony B RSMo: 569.160 }
Date: 11/02/2013 Code: 1401000
OCN: AJ006207 Arresting Agency: ST ANN PD
Description: Armed Criminal Action { Felony Unclassified RSMo: 571.015 }
Date: 11/02/2013 Code: 3101000
OCN: AJ006207 Arresting Agency: ST ANN PD
Description: Assault 1st Degree – Serious Physical Injury { Felony A RSMo:565.050 }
Date: 11/02/2013 Code: 1301100
OCN: AJ006207 Arresting Agency: ST ANN PD
Description: Armed Criminal Action { Felony Unclassified RSMo: 571.015 }
Date: 11/02/2013 Code: 3101000
OCN: AJ006207 Arresting Agency: ST ANN PD

What a sweet kid. How was he even on the street, with a rap sheet like that? It's mind-boggling. He was a dangerous, violent criminal, an early death was inevitable.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
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Dec 4, 2014, 02:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
As an aside, I burnt out my analysis circuits dealing with the Brown GJ shit. I'm giving them a breather, which is why I'm not commenting on the kid being shot, or the chokehold case.
For the record, I'm not ignoring your latest post you directed at me. 1) I need time to process it because I'm still a bit confused about how you reached your conclusion given the analysis, and 2) I'm a little tied up trying to demonstrate to Powerbook the "error of his ways".

OAW
     
OAW
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Dec 4, 2014, 02:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Yeah, his history of violent crime has nothing to do with it.


Originally Posted by Powerbook
Originally Posted by Powerbook View Post
Michael Brown’s adult criminal record:

Description: Burglary – 1st Degree { Felony B RSMo: 569.160 }
Date: 11/02/2013 Code: 1401000
OCN: AJ006207 Arresting Agency: ST ANN PD
Description: Armed Criminal Action { Felony Unclassified RSMo: 571.015 }
Date: 11/02/2013 Code: 3101000
OCN: AJ006207 Arresting Agency: ST ANN PD
Description: Assault 1st Degree – Serious Physical Injury { Felony A RSMo:565.050 }
Date: 11/02/2013 Code: 1301100
OCN: AJ006207 Arresting Agency: ST ANN PD
Description: Armed Criminal Action { Felony Unclassified RSMo: 571.015 }
Date: 11/02/2013 Code: 3101000
OCN: AJ006207 Arresting Agency: ST ANN PD
What a sweet kid. How was he even on the street, with a rap sheet like that? It's mind-boggling. He was a dangerous, violent criminal, an early death was inevitable.
And apparently Cap'n Tightpants needs a lesson as well.

See my above post where this has already been debunked.

Or just continue to regurgitate this kind of BS. Whatever.

OAW
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Dec 4, 2014, 03:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Isn't 40 years enough time for a progressive government to correct that?
That wasn't a wholehearted response. I assume its tyrannical stance is from its decay in the 70s, but I don't really know. I mean, Giuliani did some pretty strict stuff i the 90s, right? It's only in the past 20 years NYC has gotten back respect as a city from being on that was full of trash and criminals.

But to your point, let's say my timeline is right. Is 20 years enough to start repealing laws? It sure is. But as marijuana laws show, it's an uphill battle with no political will. As subego notes with DAs and this applies to the rest of politicians: It doesn't pay to look soft on crime.

Oh yeah, 9/11 may have set back city progress some. NYC was wound up tight (understandably) for a while after that.
     
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Dec 4, 2014, 03:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
For the record, I'm ignoring your latest post you directed at me. 1) I need time to process it because I'm still a bit confused about how you reached your conclusion given the analysis, and 2) I'm a little tied up trying to demonstrate to Powerbook the "error of his ways".

OAW
He was arrested, charged, but not convicted of a felony, he apparently was allowed to plead out to misdemeanor offenses. If he'd been punished appropriately for his actions he'd still be in jail and probably be alive today.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
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Cap'n Tightpants
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Dec 4, 2014, 03:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
And apparently Cap'n Tightpants needs a lesson as well.

See my above post where this has already been debunked.

Or just continue to regurgitate BS. Whatever.

OAW
How can you debunk something when all you spread is bunk? Everything you say is distorted, it's absolutely absurd.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
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The Final Dakar  (op)
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Dec 4, 2014, 03:03 PM
 
Just a question guys, how many of you have been in fights before? Would you say that if you had been, labeling you as dangerous is just or unjust?
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Dec 4, 2014, 03:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Just a question guys, how many of you have been in fights before? Would you say that if you had been, labeling you as dangerous is just or unjust?
Personally, I've not been in a fight as an adult. Also, I've never been in a fight during an armed burglary, or that involved firearms in any way, nor have I ever done enough damage for it to be classified as "Serious Physical Injury".
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The Final Dakar  (op)
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Dec 4, 2014, 03:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Personally, I've not been in a fight as an adult.
*nodding*

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
nor have I ever done enough damage for it to be classified as "Serious Physical Injury".
*harder nodding*
     
BadKosh
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Dec 4, 2014, 03:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
feel free to continue to deem yourself an expert on the lives of people you don't know based on a couple of photos and a false narrative from conservative media. OAW
You don't note a bit of hypocrisy here?
     
subego
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Dec 4, 2014, 03:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
For the record, I'm not ignoring your latest post you directed at me. 1) I need time to process it because I'm still a bit confused about how you reached your conclusion given the analysis, and 2) I'm a little tied up trying to demonstrate to Powerbook the "error of his ways".

OAW
Please, take your time. It was a long post.

You are likewise free to get tired of my shit at any time.
     
BadKosh
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Dec 4, 2014, 03:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
What sword? Your argument is that if you ever engage in criminal behavior a judge and juryless death sentence is on the table?
Where was the "Sentence" ? Accidents never happen? Perhaps you are taking things out of context too much.

What brought on this type response is the number of blacks killing blacks, and the violent tendencies. That track record of violence goes back decades, so its not an isolated event. What do those in a society that wants peace have to do to quell that violence? The political types elected by majorities have put systems in place and developed rules. You want it changed? Work with the political types, don't piss off the voters by rioting, and violent behavior. How hard is that to understand?


Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Oh please, elucidate for me where that was inferred.

Edit: Why am I arguing with you, you're nuts
Opinions stated as facts?
     
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Dec 4, 2014, 03:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Originally Posted by OAW
For the record, I'm not ignoring your latest post you directed at me. 1) I need time to process it because I'm still a bit confused about how you reached your conclusion given the analysis, and 2) I'm a little tied up trying to demonstrate to Powerbook the "error of his ways". OAW
He was arrested, charged, but not convicted of a felony, he apparently was allowed to plead out to misdemeanor offenses. If he'd been punished appropriately for his actions he'd still be in jail and probably be alive today.
Perhaps if you slowed down a bit and attempted to actually read it might have occurred to you that my post you are quoting was directed at Subego ... not you.

That being said, the lesson shall continue ....

#1. You repeated Powerbook's quote that he got from conservative blogger Charles Johnson's claiming Mike Brown had an adult criminal record. That is patently false. Let's see if you are man enough to admit that publicly here.

#2. Conservative blogger Charles Johnson ... the man who either LIED or if one chooses to be "charitable" was simply WRONG about #1 ... claimed that Mike Brown also had a "juvenile arrest record involving second degree murder". That was on Aug. 18, 2014. He said he was working on getting the report. How'd that work out for him?

#3. Once again you display your inclination to front like you are the forum's resident Internet expert on any imaginable topic. The only way you can get what YOU said ...

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants
He was arrested, charged, but not convicted of a felony, he apparently was allowed to plead out to misdemeanor offenses. If he'd been punished appropriately for his actions he'd still be in jail and probably be alive today
.... out of what news article stated ...

As a child, Michael Brown was never found delinquent of the juvenile equivalents of Missouri’s most serious felony charges and was not facing any at the time he died, a court official said Wednesday.
... is to make a whole lot of assumptions about things you know absolutely nothing about! The bottom line is this ... unless you have EVIDENCE to demonstrate that Mike Brown was charged for a serious felony and allowed to plead down to a misdemeanor ... as opposed to simply being charged with a misdemeanor to begin with ... then perhaps you really ought to just STFU?


OAW
( Last edited by OAW; Dec 4, 2014 at 03:52 PM. )
     
OAW
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Dec 4, 2014, 03:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
How can you debunk something when all you spread is bunk? Everything you say is distorted, it's absolutely absurd.
OMG did you fall and bump your head today or something? It wasn't ME who debunked Charles Johnson's claims. It was the St. Louis Post-Dispatch that did that. So if you think it's "distorted" and "absolutely absurd" ... I suggest you take it up with them.

OAW
     
subego
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Dec 4, 2014, 03:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Just a question guys, how many of you have been in fights before? Would you say that if you had been, labeling you as dangerous is just or unjust?
I've been in high school shoving matches. That's it.

Your second question confuses me. Isn't the answer scenario dependent?

If someone picks a fight with me and then proceeds to kick the everloving shit out of me, should I be labeled as dangerous?

Any boxer or MMA type could lay me the **** out. Is that dangerous, or are we talking about someone's propensity to use their abilities?


Yes. I tend to overthink things. This is why I never understand anyone.
     
OAW
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Dec 4, 2014, 03:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Just a question guys, how many of you have been in fights before? Would you say that if you had been, labeling you as dangerous is just or unjust?
Not as an adult no. The last fight I was in I was still in high school. Long story short ... 3 guys tried to jump a friend of mine who was a few years younger and a lot smaller than all of us at the time. I wasn't having it. I told my friend to go home (which he did) and I told them if they were going to try to fight him they would have to go through me. Well they obliged. When it was all said and done I got some good licks in and they did as well. I was smart enough not to stand in one spot and go toe-to-toe in a 3 against 1 situation ... so they never put me on the ground. So as far as I was concerned ... I won.

Would labeling me as dangerous as a result been just or unjust? Well I was a kid attending one of the top private high schools in the country. Excellent grades. Student athlete on the football, basketball, and track teams. Working as a Crew Chief at McDonald's. I had never been arrested or been in any kind of trouble. So it certainly would have been unjust. But I was a young, black man in America. So ask yourself if it would have happened anyway? Especially if the three guys I had fought were white?

OAW
( Last edited by OAW; Dec 4, 2014 at 03:56 PM. )
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Dec 4, 2014, 03:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I've been in high school shoving matches. That's it.
*nodding*

Originally Posted by subego View Post
Your second question confuses me. Isn't the answer scenario dependent?

If someone picks a fight with me and then proceeds to kick the everloving shit out of me, should I be labeled as dangerous?
Oh I think the answer varies easily. However if one dude got his ass kicked for picking 10 fights, I think I'd still call them dangerous. They really want to fight, right?

Originally Posted by OAW View Post
Not as an adult no.
*nod*

Full disclosure: In case you haven't guessed I've never been in a fight.
     
subego
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Dec 4, 2014, 04:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Oh I think the answer varies easily. However if one dude got his ass kicked for picking 10 fights, I think I'd still call them dangerous. They really want to fight, right?
Essentially. There's a size and weight ratio aspect which adds to the determination of whether they're dangerous to a particular individual, but at 10 incidents the person may just decide to pick up a 2x4.
     
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Dec 4, 2014, 04:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
Perhaps if you slowed down a bit and attempted to actually read it might have occurred to you that my post you are quoting was directed at Subego ... not you.

That being said, the lesson shall continue ....

*a bunch of half truths and BS from Mother Jones' talking points*
There's no lesson there, just more of your distortions. You really can't see how "doesn't have a felony record" and "was charged with numerous violent crimes" can both be true, can you? If that's too tough to grasp, then maybe you should be the one to STFU?
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subego
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Dec 4, 2014, 04:14 PM
 
I shall leave the reason "STLFU" popped into my head as an exercise for the reader.
     
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Dec 4, 2014, 04:23 PM
 
Oh, and they still refuse to release Brown's juvenile record, despite it supposedly being public record after a person's death, so...

A. There is one.
B. For some reason the AG's office doesn't want it out.
C. Seems to me, if it were some petty BS they would have disclosed it just to silence the news outlets asking for it.
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The Final Dakar  (op)
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Dec 4, 2014, 04:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Oh, and they still refuse to release Brown's juvenile record, despite it supposedly being public record after a person's death, so...

A. There is one.
B. For some reason the AG's office doesn't want it out.
C. Seems to me, if it were some petty BS they would have disclosed it just to silence the news outlets asking for it.
B. When did that stop them before
     
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Dec 4, 2014, 04:29 PM
 
Since there are those who deem it wise to pass judgement regarding the lives and upbringing of black males based upon a few selected photos ... I thought I'd further illustrate the sheer absurdity of all that. In response to the "da skreet life" and "gang behavior" notions that lurk about the minds of unfortunately far too many clueless people, Black Twitter started the #IfTheyGunnedMeDown hashtag several months back that went viral.

The media portrayal of African Americans has come under heavy scrutiny in the wake of the police killing of unarmed teenager Michael Brown as many outlets used a photo of the teen throwing what could be perceived as a gang sign instead of a clearer, more thoughtful photo.

The 18-year-old died after he was shot by a police officer in Ferguson, a suburb of St Louis, Missouri, sparking looting and riots across the city.

Now African Americans across the country have started posting contrasting images of themselves to Twitter along with the hashtag #iftheygunnedmedown, in protest to the way the media portrays black people.
African Americans protest media's portrayal of Michael Brown with Twitter hashtag | Daily Mail Online









More on Twitter here ....

And to those for whom the shoe fits ... for the love of God PLEASE make use of this as well.



OAW
( Last edited by OAW; Dec 4, 2014 at 06:11 PM. )
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Dec 4, 2014, 04:37 PM
 


For one, the pic on the left is 4 years old. Shades of Trayvon Martin's childhood pics being used to misrepresent what he looked like at the time of his death? Oh yeah.
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Dec 4, 2014, 04:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Doesn't address my point. Check.
Doesn't refute my point. Check.
Devoid of any meaningful content. Check.

Yep, that's a Chongo post alright.
Yeah, you go on beliving it's not amnesty.
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Dec 4, 2014, 04:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post


For one, the pic on the left is 4 years old. Shades of Trayvon Martin's childhood pics being used to misrepresent what he looked like at the time of his death? Oh yeah.
Like this one?


He looked more like this.



I like this one.

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Dec 4, 2014, 06:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
There's no lesson there, just more of your distortions. You really can't see how "doesn't have a felony record" and "was charged with numerous violent crimes" can both be true, can you? If that's too tough to grasp, then maybe you should be the one to STFU?
Dude. First of all your little "distortions" charge you resort to when you have no comeback for the facts presented is beyond tired and lame. If a point has been made backed up with evidence and you can't be bothered to offer an evidence-based counter-point ... then WTF are you even doing here in a debate forum?

So again ... where is your evidence that Mike Brown "was charged with numerous violent crimes"? Certainly not from the STL Post Dispatch article! And don't think I didn't notice you move the goalposts. Don't think this little straw man argument you are trying to setup is going to get past me. Of course someone can be charged with a violent crime and not have a felony record. But we aren't discussing the "theoretical" or "hypothetical" here. So why are you arguing a point that is not in dispute? Oh yeah ... because that's what "tired and lame" people do when they "have no comeback for the facts presented".

You see this is what you actually said ...

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants
He was arrested, charged, but not convicted of a felony, he apparently was allowed to plead out to misdemeanor offenses. If he'd been punished appropriately for his actions he'd still be in jail and probably be alive today.
Again these are YOUR words. Made in a post right after one where you repeated a claim by a conservative blogger about Mike Brown's supposed criminal record that the court records show are patently false. There wasn't anything "theoretical" or "hypothetical" about your statement. You simply stated your "Resident Forum Internet Expert" opinion as fact. So let's see what the actual article has to say about that ...

But disclosures during and after the hearing on Tuesday put to rest claims by blogger Charles C. Johnson and others that Brown was facing a murder charge at the time he was shot to death.
Now that's not any "distortion" on my part. The article makes it very clear right there in black and white that Charles Johnson was full of sh*t. I imagine that's why you have such an affinity for his claims.

Cynthia Harcourt, a lawyer for St. Louis County Juvenile Officer Kip Seely, noted that some juvenile records and proceedings are open to the public: those that concern crimes that would be Class A or B felonies if a juvenile had been charged as an adult. But there were none for Brown.
So Mike Brown had never been charged as an adult for an Class A or B felonies committed as a juvenile.

After the hearing, the Post-Dispatch sought out Harcourt to clarify her statement. She told the Post-Dispatch that Brown was not facing any Class A or B charges when he died, either.
So the reporter kept digging because not being charged with any Class A or B felonies as an adult doesn't necessarily mean Mike Brown wasn't facing such charges at all. So the court official clarified and made it clear that Mike Brown was facing no such charges. At all.

Class A felonies include second-degree murder and first-degree robbery; the penalties in adult court range from 10 years in prison to death. Class B felonies include voluntary manslaughter, second-degree robbery and first-degree burglary, with a maximum penalty of five to 15 years.
Just so we are clear. This is what Charles Johnson and you are completely full of sh*t about! For the record.

It is not known whether Brown had ever been accused of lesser offenses. Class C felonies, for example, which include involuntary manslaughter and second-degree assault, would become open only if there were two previous adjudications for class A, B or C felonies. That was not the case with Brown.

Joseph Martineau of Lewis Rice & Fingersh, attorney for the Post-Dispatch, acknowledged to Siwak that some juvenile court records are confidential under Missouri law.
Now do try to keep up while I bring this home. Again, YOU said Mike Brown "was charged with numerous violent crimes". Again .... that's a direct quote. No "distortion" on my part. What the article is stating here is that per Missouri law juvenile felony records are sealed UNLESS a juvenile offender A) was charged as an adult for a Class A or B felony, or B) had "two [or more] previous adjudications for Class A, B, or C felonies". In which case such records would be open. So exactly how does one get charged with "numerous violent crimes" and NOT have two or more previous adjudications? You know ... in a world where basic arithmetic doesn't elude you?

If Mike Brown had been charged with "numerous violent crimes" as you allege that would make him a repeat offender. And we would all know about it because the records would be open to the public per Missouri law. But they are not. Outside of this such records are sealed. Which is why ... per the article ... it is NOT KNOWN whether or not Mike Brown even had a juvenile felony record AT ALL. And that applies to YOU as well. Which is why this ....

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants
He was arrested, charged, but not convicted of a felony, he apparently was allowed to plead out to misdemeanor offenses.
... demonstrates how you are even MORE full of sh*t. Because you have no way of knowing that to be the case. And certainly no evidence to back it up.



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Dec 4, 2014, 06:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
B. When did that stop them before
Exactly.

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Dec 4, 2014, 06:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
For one, the pic on the left is 4 years old. Shades of Trayvon Martin's childhood pics being used to misrepresent what he looked like at the time of his death? Oh yeah.
It's certainly not surprising that the point escapes you. The more intelligent around here can see that it was to demonstrate the utter stupidity of assuming black males are using "gang signs" when they are making hand gestures in photographs. Naturally, you and your buddy Chongo skip right over all that and say something completely irrelevant about age differences in photos.

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Dec 4, 2014, 09:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
This may surprise you, but you are giving Wilson a benefit of the doubt I am not giving him.
Ok. All I was doing was leaving open the possibility that Wilson may have grabbed Brown like Johnson described. A tug of war ensues. Wilson pulls out his weapon and threatens to shoot like Johnson said. And THEN Brown tries to push the gun away in SELF-DEFENSE because Wilson is still pulling on him? I'm skeptical ... but it's possible.

Originally Posted by subego View Post
At least with regards to events up until Wilson fires on the street, I am considering Dorian Johnson's testimony to be 100% accurate. I make a single exception for the fact Johnson recalls one shot from inside the SUV, while there were two casings found nearby.

I need to hammer on what I just said. The foundation of my analysis is taking the single best source of evidence against Wilson, and then totally ignoring any potential for bias or false recollection. I posit you can't be more fair to Brown than that. There is no testimony more damning to Wilson, and there is no way to subject it to analysis which is more sympathetic to Brown.
Understood.

Originally Posted by subego View Post
Unfortunately, Johnson can't tell us whether Brown hit Wilson. His own testimony states there were times he didn't have a view of Brown's hand. We have to look at the other available evidence.
Well that's because he testified that Wilson was pulling Brown's arm inside the SUV. And Brown was pulling away. The tug of war he and other witnesses described. But I'm still with you.

Originally Posted by subego View Post
While Johnson can't testify as to what Brown was doing with his right hand at all times during the event, he can (and did) testify as to Brown's behavior during the altercation. Nothing Johnson says about Brown's behavior during said altercation is incongruent with Brown hitting Wilson.
Not necessarily the case. Both Wilson and Johnson said at one point Brown handed the cigarillos to Johnson. Johnson says it was to get more leverage to pull away from Wilson. He said Brown's left hand was on the driver side mirror. And he put his right hand either on the roof or the door frame. I can't recall which offhand. Other witnesses described him trying to pull away like this as well. Wilson OTOH claimed that Brown punched him repeatedly with his right hand to the point where he thought he was going to be KTFO ... when the LEFT side of his face was exposed to Brown ... but he ended up with no injury on the left side of his face and a small red mark on the RIGHT side of his face. The side facing away from Brown. I can't stress that glaring inconsistency enough. But I'm still following you.

Originally Posted by subego View Post
We have video of Brown being violent.
Ok let's be accurate here. We have video of Brown reaching across the counter for a BOX of cigarillos with his right hand. Then transfers it to his left hand and gives to Johnson who was standing in line behind him. He leans against the counter and appears to talking to the clerk for several seconds. He then reaches again for another BOX and some loose cigarillos. The box is in his left and and the "loosies" are in his right. The footage doesn't capture it but Johnson testified that the clerk took a swipe at Brown's hand. Presumably because he had not paid yet. Perhaps he was only trying to take the merchandise back from Brown? In any event, Brown jerks back away from the counter. At that point what appears to be heated words are exchanged. But then you see Brown approach the counter and put the BOX of cigarillos in his left hand back on the counter. The "loosies" in his right hand fall to the floor. Johnson then puts his BOX of cigarillos back on the counter. Brown bends down and picks up the handful of "loosies" off the floor. Johnson heads for the door and Brown soon follows.

Which begs the question. Why does the official police report say Brown took a $50 BOX of cigarillos when the security footage clearly shows he did not. And there was no BOX on or about Mike's person when he died. Just the "loosies". Why does it list Johnson as an "accomplice" when the security footage clearly shows he never took anything? The store owners didn't either bother call 911 or report it. I imagine because it wasn't worth the hassle since Brown had basically stolen a handful of cigarillos that cost about $0.33 each. Why did the Ferguson PD FORCE the store owner to hand over the security footage with a search warrant? Hastily trying to construct a narrative in order to protect Wilson and making mistakes? But I digress ...

We also have video Johnson waiting for Brown by the door. The store clerk tries to block Brown's path and lock the door. And Brown pushes ... NOT punches ... the much smaller store clerk away. Brown starts to leave, Johnson follows, and the clerk then tries to grab Brown. Brown turns around and walks toward the clerk and successfully intimidates him to back off. Johnson heads out the door and Brown then follows with some "loosies" in his right hand.

Why Brown chose to return the box but walk out without paying for the loose cigarillos we will never know. Dead men tell no tales. Some have suggested that he actually paid for the "loosies" and the footage didn't capture it. I'm not buying that because Johnson himself said Brown stole them and he had no idea why he would do that. Especially with visible security cameras in the store. My point is that Brown was indeed "violent" as you stated. But violence is not binary. It's not simply on or off. It's not simply black or white. There is a spectrum to violence. Pushing ... not punching ... a much smaller unarmed store clerk away from you is one thing along that spectrum. Punching a 6'4 210 LB armed police officer completely unprovoked and then going for his gun is quite another. To piggy back on Dakar's post above, if Brown had been caught slapping his girlfriend on video 30 minutes before he was killed that would have been "violent" as well. But that doesn't in any way make him "dangerous" or downright stupid enough to attack an armed police officer ... you know "just because" ... who would be in the heavyweight division if he were a boxer. I hope you can understand what I'm trying to get across here.

And here's the deal. If Wilson had claimed that he had confronted Brown about the cigarillos and then Brown sucker-punched him and ran away in an attempt to escape arrest ... I could have actually believed that. Actually, I don't think I would have "believed" it per se since that's a ridiculously risky move to make with your life just to avoid being arrested for stealing a handful of cigarillos. And trying to run away in flip flops would not have been the move at all. But let's just say that I would have afforded that story a helluva lot more credibility than the one Wilson offered.

Originally Posted by subego View Post
Wilson had (very light) marks, and exactly as you say, Brown had no marks on his hands. I need to make a very important point here... the question we are asking is not did Brown's hands match Wilson's description of having been hit, we are asking did Brown's hands match the forensic analysis of the injuries to Wilson's face. They did.
So you do realize that you are "matching" the absence of any injuries to Brown's hands that would be consistent with punching someone to a forensic analysis that shows what can barely be described as an "injury" to Wilson's face at all right? You my friend are among the more "melanin deprived" individuals on our planet. So you could make like Homer Simpson right now and slap yourself on the forehead with a loud "Doh!". Chances are it would leave a "very light" red mark much like what we saw on Wilson. Now suppose you said I head-butted you? And when the cops arrested me they took me down to the station they found that I had no cuts, bruises, abrasions, swelling or anything whatsoever on my forehead to suggest that I caused your "injury". But if I'm following your argument .. and please correct me if I'm not ... you are suggesting that the absence of any injury to my forehead would "match" the relative scant "injury" on yours?

Originally Posted by subego View Post
We have Brown's normal interaction with the construction worker.
I'm not sure about the relevance of this since all that happened even before the events that transpired at the store. But if you are referencing what would appear to be Brown's fairly normal and calm demeanor earlier that day and juxtaposing that against the "hulk hogan" like "demon" big black brute of near superhuman strength ... similar to white supremacist rhetoric that was all too common in the Southern press during the lynching era of the late 19th and early 20th centuries ... and even made its way into the court room during the Rodney King trial where he was compared to a "monster" and a "Tasmanian devil" and described as a man with "hulk-like strength" as a dozen or so cops where beating the snot out of him with batons .... well then OK I'm following.

Originally Posted by subego View Post
In other words, there is literally one single piece of evidence Brown didn't hit Wilson: the conversation with the construction worker. Everything else either doesn't contradict Brown hitting Wilson, or actively provides support for the notion.
What contradicts Brown hitting Wilson is the "red mark" on the RIGHT SIDE of his face when he was supposedly punched from outside a driver's side window on the left. What is Mike Brown "Doc Ock" now or something where his punches can turn corners? And there's the total lack of any physical evidence on Mike Brown's hands that he punched ANYBODY ... let alone Wilson.

Originally Posted by subego View Post
I need to make it clear here if it isn't already... I haven't even considered Wilson's testimony. I'm going solely off forensic evidence, the video, and the testimony of Johnson.
The video does not matter. The Ferguson and STL County Police Chief's said emphatically for a week that Wilson knew nothing about Brown stealing the cigarillos. Moreover, it's highly prejudicial. Which is why the Justice Department was none too pleased when it was released. And which is precisely why the Ferguson Police Chief released it in the first place ... and then LIED about his reasons for doing so. Because he knew that in the minds of much of the public a fatal police shooting of an unarmed man following a "strong arm robbery" would be a much easier sell than one following "jaywalking". And since a picture is worth a thousand words ... and a video is worth 10 thousand ... all those statements about Wilson knowing nothing about it would get lost in the shuffle. Especially when the STL County Prosecutors don't bother to question the discrepancy during the grand jury proceedings at all.

So what's left? We have Johnson's testimony who said Wilson grabbed Brown and was trying to pull him inside the SUV. And Brown was pulling away. We have other witnesses who corroborated this. We have some witnesses who said they saw what appeared to be Brown punching Wilson. Others described it as "wrestling" or a "tug of war". The bottom line is the testimony was inconsistent at best. Which doesn't mean that it "supports" Wilson.

Originally Posted by subego View Post
What am I supposed to do with this as a juror? With regards to the question of whether Brown hit Wilson, Brown's best defense is some of the strangers he interacted with that morning didn't get assaulted...

And Wilson hasn't even given us his dumbass pig testimony yet.

Think how many jurors say after a shocking acquittal, "oh... I know they're guilty, but I wasn't provided the evidence to prove it". That's what this situation is. Even bending over backwards to accomodate Brown, I haven't been given the evidence to exonerate him on the charge of hitting Wilson.
Pardon my quibble ... but you would be a "grand juror". And that's important because a "juror" is charged with determining guilt or innocence beyond a reasonable doubt. Whereas a "grand juror" is charged with determining if there is probable cause that a crime MAY have been committed ... which would then be sorted out with a trial by jury where all the evidence would be subject to cross-examination.

Self-serving testimony from the officer on the hot seat? Check!

Utterly irrational actions on the part of the dead, unarmed victim as described by said officer? Check!

Eyewitnesses split down the middle on whether Mike Brown "charged" Wilson? Check!

12 eyewitness who said Mike Brown had his "hands in the air". And only 2 who said he didn't? Check!

Physical evidence that in no way exonerates Wilson outright for the fatal shots? Check!

Unarmed 18 year old shot 6 times and killed in broad daylight? Undisputed!

So follow where I'm going with this. Let's say for the sake of discussion that Brown DID hit Wilson. There is still plenty of "probable cause" ... NOT "beyond a reasonable doubt", NOT "based upon a preponderance of the evidence", we are talking about the absolute lowest legal standard in the judicial system here ... to send this case to a trial by jury because of what happened AFTER Wilson was hit!

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Dec 4, 2014, 10:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
Dude. First of all your little "distortions" charge you resort to when you have no comeback for the facts presented is beyond tired and lame. If a point has been made backed up with evidence and you can't be bothered to offer an evidence-based counter-point ... then WTF are you even doing here in a debate forum?

*blah, blah, blah, distorting everything and making BS up, as usual*
Such arrogance while being such an idiot.

> You're hung up on the murder story, I've not even mentioned it because no actual news sources have mentioned it.
> The courts are holding records, which will be released in time, so we'll see.
> Class C felonies can be very severe, especially if it was a plead down from much more serious charges. Example: attempted murder can be lessened to 2nd degree aggravated battery (a Class C felony). Each Class C offense can carry up to a 7 year sentence. Here you go, maybe this will help.

Second Degree Assault

If you are charged with assault in the second degree in Missouri, the prosecution believes they can prove that you did one of the following:

Attempted to kill or knowingly caused or attempted to cause serious physical injury to someone in the heat of passion,
Attempted to cause or knowingly caused physical injury to someone with the use of a deadly weapon,
Recklessly caused serious injury to another person,
Acting with criminal negligence caused injury to someone or yourself by operating a motor vehicle while intoxicated,
Recklessly caused injury to someone by discharging a firearm.
Are you paying attention now?

Finally, you're a known, shown, and proven liar, you'll shamelessly say anything to promote your agenda, repeating the same distortions over and over again as if repetition will make them true. It doesn't, because at the end of the day you're still the same person, pulling the same talking points from the same dodgy sites (who make that shit up to further their goals), with the same habits.

Oh, and you seem to keep dropping your mic for no good reason, maybe you should just stick it up your ass for safe keeping instead. Pitiful.
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Dec 4, 2014, 10:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
It's certainly not surprising that the point escapes you. The more intelligent around here can see that it was to demonstrate the utter stupidity of assuming black males are using "gang signs" when they are making hand gestures in photographs. Naturally, you and your buddy Chongo skip right over all that and say something completely irrelevant about age differences in photos.

OAW
So ignorant. If the core of the message is a lie, then it distorts the whole picture. Are you capable of realizing that? No, you obviously don't see a problem with using a pic of a 14 y/o Mike Brown to supposedly show "what he was really like", which makes the entire statement you're trying to make utter garbage. He wasn't a sweet, cuddly kid during this, he wasn't a little boy when he robbed the convenience store, assaulted the cashier, and then later punched a cop. This type of stupid shit has been going on for so long, you probably can't see it anymore, but you're more than happy to spread it.
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Dec 4, 2014, 10:16 PM
 
Sharpton calling for "federal intervention" brought this to mind.

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Dec 5, 2014, 12:07 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Such arrogance while being such an idiot.
And just what makes me an "idiot" about something I was right about? After all, when I said you were "full of sh*t" I actually demonstrated that with this little thing we call evidence. You OTOH are just yakking.

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
> You're hung up on the murder story, I've not even mentioned it because no actual news sources have mentioned it. ]
You are right. You didn't mention Charles Johnson's murder claim. But you most definitely saw fit to quote and REPEAT his claims that Mike Brown had an "adult criminal record". Hence why you said "How was he even on the street, with a rap sheet like that?" Or is that a "distortion" too? I mentioned the murder story a grand total of ONCE. Only to further reiterate the sheer lack of credibility of this individual who had made not one but TWO patently false claims about Mike Brown. EVERYTHING else I've said to you was in reference to your supposed knowledge that Brown "was charged with numerous violent crimes" based upon Charles Johnson's claims. How "He was arrested, charged, but not convicted of a felony, he apparently was allowed to plead out to misdemeanor offenses." Oh wait was that another "distortion"? Are you actually trying to pretend you did NOT say those things? So that's not being "hung up on the murder story" at all. Again that's called proving just how completely full of sh*t you actually are about the things you DID mention.

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
> The courts are holding records, which will be released in time, so we'll see.
And when did I ever say anything about that one way or the other? What I have said is that if Mike Brown had been "charged with numerous violent crimes" his juvenile records would ALREADY be open to the public per Missouri law. Because all it takes is TWO. You have no knowledge whatsoever of whether or not Brown had a juvenile record AT ALL. Yet you still see fit make spew your ignorant commentary as fact. So even IF he has a juvenile record and IF the courts release them one day now that he is deceased ... AT MOST he would have a single charge. As I said earlier, apparently basic arithmetic eludes you.

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
> Class C felonies can be very severe, especially if it was a plead down from much more serious charges. Example: attempted murder can be lessened to 2nd degree aggravated battery (a Class C felony). Each Class C offense can carry up to a 7 year sentence. Here you go, maybe this will help.
I find it so amusing that you feel the need to "educate" me about the severity of Class C felonies when I just posted a quote from the STL Post Dispatch that said "Class C felonies, for example, which include involuntary manslaughter and second-degree assault ...". Again, the Resident Forum Internet Expert is compelled to try to demonstrate his "superior knowledge" over a point that was not even in dispute.

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Finally, you're a known, shown, and proven liar, you'll shamelessly say anything to promote your agenda, repeating the same distortions over and over again as if repetition will make them true. It doesn't, because at the end of the day you're still the same person, pulling the same talking points from the same dodgy sites (who make that shit up to further their goals), with the same habits.
Is there an actual rebuttal in there to what I said about you being completely full of sh*t about Mike Brown's supposed criminal record? Feel free to show me where I'm wrong. I am from Missouri after all. Until then ....

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Oh, and you seem to keep dropping your mic for no good reason, maybe you should just stick it up your ass for safe keeping instead. Pitiful.
Here's the deal. If you were to eat an entire bag of diseased dicks ... which I strongly urge you to do BTW ... and then claimed that you actually liked it THAT would actually have MORE CREDIBILITY than anything you've said about Mike Brown's supposed "criminal record". Dismissed.

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Dec 5, 2014, 12:26 AM
 
@OAW

I'm going to have to apologize. A project just dropped in my lap which is going to take me out of the game until Sunday night.

As soon as the deadline passes, I'll be back to respond. Sorry for making you wait like that right after putting in a bunch of effort.
     
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Dec 5, 2014, 01:08 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
So ignorant. If the core of the message is a lie, then it distorts the whole picture. Are you capable of realizing that? No, you obviously don't see a problem with using a pic of a 14 y/o Mike Brown to supposedly show "what he was really like", which makes the entire statement you're trying to make utter garbage. He wasn't a sweet, cuddly kid ....
Seriously dude. Were you born this stupid or do you just practice a lot? Is reading comprehension simply not your strong suit? Or do you actually believe that making a valid point about an unrelated topic somehow rebuts what I said? Again, the post of mine that you are referencing was in response to this ....

Originally Posted by Powerbook
Well, apparently the Gentle Giant was no stranger to the gang behaviour:



Anyone wants to guess what type of behaviour would come from emulating da thugs?
Every single picture shows Mike Brown making hand gestures which he presumed to be "gang behavior". I responded with a post outlining a series of SIX pictures of other black males making "hand gestures" in one photo ... juxtaposed against another photo that clearly showed they were not "gang members".

So what does that have to do with a picture of Mike Brown in headphones that is showing him as what you perceive to be a "sweet, cuddly kid" from what you presume to be a 4 year old picture even though he clearly has a beard? Feel free to provide the evidence of that claim as well from an actual news site and not some right-wing blog. Because suffice it to say that NO ONE has any reason to simply take your word for it.

But let's say for the sake of discussion that he was 14 in that picture. WTF does that have to do with anything that I said?

The "core of the message" that's a LIE isn't Mike Brown's AGE in that photo. The LIE is the perception among ignorant white people who think that any hand gesture made by a black male is a "gang sign". Do you really think Powerbook is ALONE in such foolishness? Weren't you posting similar pictures of Trayvon Martin and making the same stupid ass assumptions?

Moreover the caption from that photo says ...

The media portrayal of Michael Brown (pictured), who was killed when he was shot by police, has come under scrutiny after a picture of him making a hand gesture (right) was used by media organizations.
Has the point still not registered with you? You know what? Never mind. I imagine you've convinced yourself that Mike Brown was 12 years old in this picture ...



OAW
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Dec 5, 2014, 01:08 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
@OAW

I'm going to have to apologize. A project just dropped in my lap which is going to take me out of the game until Sunday night.

As soon as the deadline passes, I'll be back to respond. Sorry for making you wait like that right after putting in a bunch of effort.
No worries my man.

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Dec 5, 2014, 01:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
*more manipulation, distortion, and misrepresentation of what was said.*
Typical, and it would be sad if it weren't for the fact that you indulge yourself in it.

Here's the deal. If you were to eat an entire bag of diseased dicks ... which I strongly urge you to do BTW ... and then claimed that you actually liked it THAT would actually have MORE CREDIBILITY than anything you've said about Mike Brown's supposed "criminal record". Dismissed.
Your homophobia aside, all of that says much worse about you than it ever could about me, sport. See a shrink.
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Dec 5, 2014, 01:47 AM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
Seriously dude. Were you born this stupid or do you just practice a lot? Is reading comprehension simply not your strong suit? Or do you actually believe that making a valid point about an unrelated topic somehow rebuts what I said? Again, the post of mine that you are referencing was in response to this ....
It isn't my fault that you're too ignorant (and indoctrinated) to understand the correlation of how a core misrepresentation can dilute an intended message. Otherwise you'd understand why some people roll their eyes when they see an image like this:



and find it difficult to take your agenda seriously. But then, you aren't allowed to see him as anything other than a big, sweet teddy bear, are you? Is that hardcoded or a learned trait?
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
OAW
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Dec 5, 2014, 01:48 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
*more manipulation, distortion, and misrepresentation of what was said.*
Well there's your favorite word again! Tired and lame as I said earlier. Since you are apparently incapable of an actual rebuttal ... let's just move on.

OAW
     
OAW
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Dec 5, 2014, 01:50 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
It isn't my fault that you're too ignorant (and indoctrinated) to understand the correlation of how a core misrepresentation can dilute an intended message. Otherwise you'd understand why some people roll their eyes when they see an image like this:



and find it difficult to take your agenda seriously. But then, you aren't allowed to see him as anything other than a big, sweet teddy bear, are you? Is that hardcoded or a learned trait?
Still waiting on that actual news source that he was 14 years old in the picture with the earphones. Not that it matters with respect to the point I was making. Suffice it to say I don't think I will lose any of this tonight because I'm confident you can't.

OAW
     
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Dec 5, 2014, 01:54 AM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
Well there's your favorite word again! Tired and lame as I said earlier. Since you are apparently incapable of an actual rebuttal ... let's just move on.

OAW
I refuse to take your BS comments seriously anymore, they're filled with so many half-truths, manipulations, and outright lies that it makes it impossible. It's as if you can't think at all for yourself so you go grab your side's talking points, write them directly into your programming, and then paste them all over the place. Which political group do you work for, again?
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
 
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