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Police discrimination, misconduct, Ferguson, MO, the Roman Legion, and now math??? (Page 61)
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subego
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Apr 19, 2016, 06:48 PM
 
Seems odd to me for a sentencing judge to so casually override a jury.
     
Captain Obvious
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Apr 20, 2016, 04:02 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Seems odd to me for a sentencing judge to so casually override a jury.
How did he override the jury? The jury's job was not to decide the sentence.

The judge did his job and did it correctly. The conviction was manslaughter and the officer was on duty patrolling the housing project and as such had justification for being armed. That is a significant point in the case which makes it different from a civilian shooter. Furthermore the fatal shot was a ricochet rather than the result of a weapon being purposefully directed at the deceased.

Those are precisely the sort of factors a judge is meant to take into conisderation at sentencing.

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subego
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Apr 20, 2016, 07:07 AM
 
The article states the conviction was manslaughter, and the judge reduced it to criminally negligent homicide.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Apr 20, 2016, 12:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
The article states the conviction was manslaughter, and the judge reduced it to criminally negligent homicide.
That's the correct ruling.
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subego
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Apr 20, 2016, 01:05 PM
 
Maybe from an appeals court, but not a sentencing judge.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Apr 20, 2016, 03:07 PM
 
I've never understood why a jury hands down the sentence in the first place, their involvement should end with the verdict. A criminal court judge is far more qualified to make such an assessment.
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Laminar
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Apr 20, 2016, 04:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
I've never understood why a jury hands down the sentence in the first place, their involvement should end with the verdict. A criminal court judge is far more qualified to make such an assessment.
What? Charges are pressed by the DA. The jury decides whether the defendant is guilty or not guilty of those charges. Given the guilty/not guilty verdict, the judge determines the sentence, possibly taking into consideration the DA's recommendation. Is this not how it works? Where did the jury decide the charges or the sentence?
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Apr 20, 2016, 04:15 PM
 
I didn't really get how bad this is until I remembered it's hard to get cops investigated, harder to get them charged, and hardest to get them convicted. No wonder people are pissedthe judge reduced the charge.
     
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Apr 20, 2016, 07:04 PM
 
To my knowledge the only time a jury gets involved in the sentencing phase of a criminal case is in a death penalty situation. Other than that it's always on the trial judge. Or the state legislature or Congress when mandatory minimums are involved.

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Cap'n Tightpants
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Apr 21, 2016, 01:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
What? Charges are pressed by the DA. The jury decides whether the defendant is guilty or not guilty of those charges. Given the guilty/not guilty verdict, the judge determines the sentence, possibly taking into consideration the DA's recommendation. Is this not how it works? Where did the jury decide the charges or the sentence?
In certain jurisdictions (largely commonwealth states), along with its verdict, a jury will also hand down an advised sentence. Some judges give their opinion more credence than others (a lot more), which historically has led to some disproportionately severe (or lax) sentencing.
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subego
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Apr 21, 2016, 10:39 AM
 
If I read this article right, the judge gave exactly the sentence the prosecutor recommend, he just dropped the severity of the felony.
     
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Apr 21, 2016, 11:37 AM
 
Submitted not as any sort of defense of the criminal behavior of these deceased girls ... but as yet another example that police "officers" will lie in a heartbeat.

Video taken from a police cruiser dash cam shows that sheriff’s deputies made no attempt to save three drowning Florida teens who drove into a cemetery pond after stealing a car last month.

16-year-old Dominique Battle, 15-year-old Ashaunti Butler, and 15-year-old Laniya Miller all died on March 31, following a car chase with the sheriff previously stating that officers on the scene dropped their gun belts and waded into the water trying to save the screaming teens.

In the video, Pinellas County deputies can be heard standing by their cruiser, with one officer yelling, “I hear them yelling, I think!”

“They’re done. They are 6-7, dude” another officer replies.

“They were yelling,” a deputy responds. “I thought I heard yelling.”

As the car continued to sink the deputy replies, “But now, they’re done. They’re done.”

In a press conference following the tragic accident, Pinellas County Sheriff Bob Gualtieri gave a detailed history of the three teens’ history of stealing cars before commending his officers.

“Deputies wading out into the water were just sinking (into the muck) and couldn’t get to the car,” the sheriff said.

“Once the car filled up with water, it went down pretty quickly,” Gualtieri added. “There was nothing deputies could do. As thick as that muck is in the pond, it is almost like a carpet. The doors were closed, the windows were up and unfortunately it just became a death chamber. They drowned, they just couldn’t get out.”

WATCH: Dash cam video shows Florida cops stood by as teens drowned in stolen car | Rawstory.com



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Cap'n Tightpants
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Apr 21, 2016, 01:49 PM
 
In that video there's no indication that someone didn't try to go out. Where are you getting that from?
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Apr 21, 2016, 11:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
In that video there's no indication that someone didn't try to go out. Where are you getting that from?
1. The dash cam video footage doesn't capture any of the cops in the water. 2. The dash cam audio footage clearly indicates the the cops who are speaking are right by the vehicle. Their voices aren't coming from a distance.

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Cap'n Tightpants
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Apr 21, 2016, 11:49 PM
 
1. It doesn't not capture them, either. 2. They were shouting at each other, do people standing next to each other normally shout?

This is all very easy to solve, is there thick muck there that would restrict a person from going into the water? Have someone go in who is their size and weight and see how easy to is for them.
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Apr 22, 2016, 12:23 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
This is all very easy to solve, is there thick muck there that would restrict a person from going into the water? Have someone go in who is their size and weight and see how easy to is for them.
That's quite beside the point. Let's say for the sake of discussion that there was "thick muck there that would restrict a person from going into the water". Ok fine. That then begs the question. WTH would the sheriff LIE and say they did go in the water when there was a perfectly reasonable explanation for them not doing so?

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Cap'n Tightpants
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Apr 22, 2016, 12:40 AM
 
No, it isn't. Apparently they did try, but weren't able to go far due to the muck. Living next to lakes for (pretty much) my entire life, I can attest to the thick silt in some places being untraversable, even outright dangerous.
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OAW
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Apr 22, 2016, 12:52 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
No, it isn't. Apparently they did try, but weren't able to go far due to the muck. Living next to lakes for (pretty much) my entire life, I can attest to the thick silt in some places being untraversable, even outright dangerous.
So two posts ago you posed this as a question. Now you are making a definitive assertion.

The point here is that the dash cam footage simply doesn't support the sheriff's earlier representation of his officer's actions. Therefore, the veracity of that representation is being called into question. Is it possible that the sheriff was telling the truth? Certainly. But is it probable given the dash cam footage? I'd venture to say it's not.

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Cap'n Tightpants
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Apr 22, 2016, 02:31 AM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
Now you are making a definitive assertion.
How observant of you?

The point here is that the dash cam footage simply doesn't support the sheriff's earlier representation of his officer's actions.
and yet again, it doesn't not support it either. While the cops likely couldn't have waded into that water, but it sure has been well-traversed with recent fishing expeditions.
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subego
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Apr 22, 2016, 09:34 AM
 
Could this video be used to call into question whether the police are telling the truth? Sure.

Is it definitive proof? Absolutely not.

Ignoring the part where I can't even tell where the camera is pointing in relation to the accident, the video is pretty obviously incomplete.
( Last edited by subego; Apr 22, 2016 at 11:28 AM. Reason: Double negatived myself)
     
Laminar
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Apr 22, 2016, 11:20 AM
 
It's almost as if people are using the video as definitive proof of whatever they already want to believe, instead of taking an objective look at the situation! I'm glad this is an isolated incident of this type of behavior, and not an attitude and pattern that permeates not only this forum or just the internet, but nearly all political and social discourse around the world. Boy what a mess that would be!
     
subego
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Apr 22, 2016, 11:35 AM
 
While there was no video, one of the theories about why people were so contentious about Mike Brown shooting is the details could fit multiple stories so well.

Each side somehow ended up coming to the same conclusion... the "facts" clearly tar their opponent.
     
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Apr 22, 2016, 01:03 PM
 
Indeed, we do have a huge mess in this country. We have an entire subculture of people who have been enslaved for >350 years (lately to the state, who continues to treat them like damaged children and persists in keeping them dependent on social systems), creating a class who are a hybrid of predator and victim. This isn't unique though, as there's another subculture (this one of Euro-descent) in the South who are in the same boat; clogging run-down trailer parks and living off disability (as well as black market pain meds and washtub methamphetamine).

Police are told they have to be impartial, just, and respectful, it's hammered into their heads during academy training, but that starts to erode quickly in the face of seeing and experiencing the sheer, overwhelming volume man's inhumanity to man, day-in and day-out. Simply put, one of the most difficult things in the world is to respect people who have no respect for anyone, including themselves.
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Apr 22, 2016, 07:54 PM
 
^^^

It's altogether possible that my sarcasm meter is off today. But if it's not then I submit Laminar's point just went right over your head. Which would not be a novel phenomenon whatsoever.

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Apr 25, 2016, 10:50 AM
 
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Apr 25, 2016, 11:17 AM
 
That's getting off cheap, smart move.
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The Final Dakar  (op)
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Apr 25, 2016, 11:43 AM
 
Someone mentioned it'd be interesting if settlements like this came partly out of police pension funds.
     
subego
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Apr 25, 2016, 11:50 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Someone mentioned it'd be interesting if settlements like this came partly out of police pension funds.
I think it's appropriate to attack what this is trying to attack, but this and the other examples I've heard sound like they would disincentivize policing.

It's certainly been floated we've had a crazy shooting spike in Chicago because the McDonald case has cops too scared to do anything.


Note... I'm not sure how much I buy that. It's been warm out, and the statistics need to be corrected for that variable.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Apr 25, 2016, 12:24 PM
 
What I was thinks my was its incentivize taking things to court. No more settlements. Also the police union would likely hire some top notch representation.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Apr 25, 2016, 12:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I think it's appropriate to attack what this is trying to attack, but this and the other examples I've heard sound like they would disincentivize policing.

It's certainly been floated we've had a crazy shooting spike in Chicago because the McDonald case has cops too scared to do anything.


Note... I'm not sure how much I buy that. It's been warm out, and the statistics need to be corrected for that variable.
I think the spike is real, but whether it's fear or petulance likely depends on your view of the previous situation.
     
subego
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Apr 25, 2016, 12:35 PM
 
Why can't it be both?

I'd say the spike is real, too, but the temperature variable accounts for some of it.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Apr 26, 2016, 02:32 PM
 
The sanctimony coming my out of the Cleveland patrol end association is a great example of why some think cops are out of touch.
     
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Apr 26, 2016, 09:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Why can't it be both?

I'd say the spike is real, too, but the temperature variable accounts for some of it.
Do you have any concrete evidence for that, and that the “lax” attitude of cops is to blame? A lot of “felt” statistics does not correspond to actual statistics. Even if there is an increase, and you can correlate the increase to the cops pulling out, it still doesn't imply that the old way of doing things is better.
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Apr 26, 2016, 09:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
What I was thinks my was its incentivize taking things to court. No more settlements. Also the police union would likely hire some top notch representation.
That is a good point, but only if criminal cases are taken seriously. The huge disparity between the lack of criminal convictions and the huge settlement in the civil lawsuit is quite telling: it means that public perception is quite clear on whether the cop did something wrong.

If you have video of a cop planting evidence (say, a gun or drugs), that cop should be in jail, no discussion about how hard his job is, etc. You have violated the public's trust in you personally and your fellow police officers collectively. And it directly correlates with public perception, if the public no longer trusts you and your word, your job as a police officer becomes that much more difficult, too. Apart from becoming serious about convicting cops who have been caught doing something wrong, you should IMO also institute some measure where nobody gets necessarily punished. For instance, if you find out someone has been wrongfully convicted, I think it'd be a great asset to have something like an NTSB investigation where causes for the wrongful conviction are investigated and recommendations made to prevent similar cases in the future.
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The Final Dakar  (op)
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Apr 27, 2016, 12:18 PM
 
I wouldn't say the inference is clear. From a cost and PR perspective a no-fault payoff can be seen as a better and more reliable outcome than a court case.
     
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May 16, 2016, 12:22 PM
 
All this because 15 year old black girl riding her bike cut through a parking lot ...



On May 24, 2014, 15-year-old Monique Tillman and her brother were riding their bikes when they were stopped and this young girl was assaulted by Tacoma Police Officer Jared Williams.

Tillman and her brother had done nothing wrong, and were merely targeted by this ‘public servant’ because they had the unfortunate luck to have crossed paths with him.

As the duo traveled home, they cut through a mall parking lot, as they had done countless times before. However, this time, Officer Williams was in that parking lot, in his full Tacoma Police department uniform, yet off-duty, working as mall security. As the teens traveled through the lot, Williams began pursuit of these hardened criminals and accused them of trespassing.

Knowing they’d done nothing wrong, Monique attempted to explain to the officer that they cut through the parking lot all the time on their way home. However, this tyrant was having nothing of it.

As the duo attempted to ride away from a man whose intentions were clearly unscrupulous, Williams attacked. A recently released surveillance video shows the disturbing scene that unfolded next.

This heroic officer ripped the girl from her bike and slammed her up against a parked car with his hand around her neck. As the child struggled to breathe, grabbed her by the hair and flung her around like a rag doll.

Clearly overpowering the small child, half his size, the officer wasn’t satisfied with the damage he’d inflicted so far. So, for good measure, Williams pulled out his taser and sent 50,000 volts into this poor girl.

“He was choking me, grabbed me by my hair and tried to slam my face into the concrete. The next thing I know, I’m on the ground being tased,” Tillman said.

Now face down, tasered, handcuffed and brutalized, Williams stood over his victim like a hunter and his kill. He had protected society from the likes of a dangerous brother and sister riding their bicycles.

Williams then arrested Monique and charged her with resisting arrest and, get this, assault on an officer.

After viewing the surveillance video of the incident, however, all of the charges were thrown out.


Vito de la Cruz, Tillman’s attorney, has filed a lawsuit seeking damages from Officer Williams, the Simon Property Group who owns the Tacoma Mall and Universal Protection Services, the private security company in charge of Tacoma Mall security.

“A child riding a bike should not have to worry that a police officer will stop her without legal cause and brutalize her,” said de la Cruz. “Our communities are weary of another African American child being hurt by unwarranted and excessive police force.”

The Free Thought Project reached out the Tacoma PD to inquire about Williams’ current status and if any disciplinary action had been taken.
However, our requests for comment were not returned.

Below is what policing in modern day America has become.
Disturbing Video Shows a Cop Brutally Beat a Child for Riding Her Bike, Charges HER with Assault – The Free Thought Project

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May 16, 2016, 12:29 PM
 
Saw an article over the weekend showing in Colorado where weed is legal they now disproportionately target minority juveniles instead. Sometimes you just can't win.
     
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May 16, 2016, 02:22 PM
 
Are minority juveniles disproportionately using pot?
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May 17, 2016, 11:20 AM
 
Because local police departments investigating their own in questionable shootings is such a grand idea ...

A former St. Louis Police officer was charged Monday with first-degree murder in the 2011 killing of a 24-year-old man after a car chase, authorities said.

St. Louis Circuit Attorney Jennifer Joyce said that during the December 20 chase, the officer, Jason Stockley, then 31, was heard on an internal video saying that he was "going to kill" Anthony Lamar Smith.

As Smith's car slowed, Stockley could also be heard telling his partner, who was in an SUV, to "hit him right now," Joyce said in a statement.

After the SUV barreled into Smith's vehicle, "Stockley then approached Smith's car on the driver's side and shot five times into the car, striking the victim Anthony Smith with each shot," the statement reads.

A gun was recovered from Smith's vehicle, the statement adds, but it only contained Stockley's DNA.


After the killing, homicide detectives from the St. Louis Metropolitan Police Department investigated Smith's death and determined that it was justifiable, the statement says, adding that internal affairs and federal investigations continued.

"The actions of this former officer are very concerning in this case," Joyce said. "We believe that others may have more information. We encourage anyone with information to come forward."

In 2013 — the same year that Stockley left the department — the Board of Police Commissioners settled a wrongful death lawsuit in connection with Smith's killing for $900,000, the St. Louis Post-Dispatch reported.

It was unclear Monday if Stockely had a lawyer. The attorney from his civil case, Neil Bruntrager, did not immediately return a request for comment.
Ex-St. Louis Cop Charged With First-Degree Murder in 2011 Killing - NBC News

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May 17, 2016, 11:08 PM
 
US - blue-lives-matter-display-defaced-at-dartmouth-college-republicans-say - News - msn

If this was reversed there'd be riots. This was an approved and sanctioned display commemorating officers who have given their lives in service. What a disgraceful show of behavior from BLM, as if most people weren't sick of their shit already.
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May 18, 2016, 01:37 PM
 
^^^^

The link you provided just goes to the MSN homepage. Not the the article I presume you were talking about.

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May 18, 2016, 02:00 PM
 
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
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May 18, 2016, 03:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
I see. So this looks like a public message board on the campus. And assuming Black Lives Matter activists actually did this ... because it's certainly not outside the realm of possibility that others did so and are blaming them for it as a propaganda tactic ... IMO it would have been better form to simply put one of the papers next to what was being displayed.

Originally Posted by #BlackLivesMatter
You cannot co-opt the movement against state violence to memorialize its perpetrators.
That's a legitimate conversation to have where reasonable people can disagree. And if it were juxtaposed against what was up there then the point would have been driven home even further.

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May 18, 2016, 03:14 PM
 
OAW, I have to agree with the Capt here. The police supporters got official permission to post on that bulletin board, and someone came along and defaced it. It wasn't a generic "post your flyer" board but a display.

Put the shoe on the other foot and there would be outrage. There has been in fact.
     
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May 18, 2016, 03:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
OAW, I have to agree with the Capt here. The police supporters got official permission to post on that bulletin board, and someone came along and defaced it. It wasn't a generic "post your flyer" board but a display.

Put the shoe on the other foot and there would be outrage. There has been in fact.
Fair enough. I didn't see the part where they got "official permission". If it was an official commemoration for "National Police Week" then it shouldn't have been touched at all IMO. That would be akin to someone messing with a official commemoration for "Black History Month" or "Women's History Month". That being said, the whole "Blue Lives Matter" thing IS co-opting the "Black Lives Matter" slogan. And my main point is that is a legitimate conversation to have. But in this instance the way they went about it was wrong.

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May 18, 2016, 03:59 PM
 
I read this article, not the MSN link:
https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...isJ/story.html
     
OAW
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May 18, 2016, 04:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
I read this article, not the MSN link:
https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...isJ/story.html
Yeah it certainly looks like BLM activists admitted to doing this ...

Mikala Williams, one of the students who helped organize the placement of the Black Lives Matter fliers, said the action was not meant to be “anti-police.”

In a statement sent by Williams on behalf of a group of “concerned students of Dartmouth,” students said they were not disregarding free speech, or condemning police who have died in the line of duty, but instead defending the Black Lives Matter movement.

“Movements like ‘All Lives Matter’ and ‘Blue Lives Matter’ are created purposefully as counter-narratives to deny the relevance of the original movement,” the statement said. “Regardless of intention, displaying these slogans ignores the context in which ‘Black Lives Matter’ has arisen.”

Williams said in an e-mail that she and others have received a “barrage” of threats since the incident last week.

“Regardless of your political affiliation, we can all agree that none of the actions taken on Friday warrant the violent and antagonistic backlash,” she said.

The display’s removal drew sharp criticism from the school administration.

“Freedom of expression is a fundamental value of the Dartmouth community. By its very nature, the exercise of free speech will include views with which some of us disagree or which we find hurtful,” school officials wrote in a letter to the campus community on Sunday. “The unauthorized removal on Friday of a student display for National Police Week in the Collis Center was an unacceptable violation of freedom of expression on our campus.”
The highlighted portion is the point about "co-opting" that I was speaking about. But I do agree that they went about it entirely wrong. Because now the conversation isn't even about that and instead it's about their actions being "anti-free speech". And they are facing disciplinary action on top of that. Just a dumb move all the way around.

OAW
     
Chongo
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May 23, 2016, 11:51 AM
 
Judge finds cop not guilty on all charges in Grey case.
Freddie Gray Arresting Officer Nero Found Not Guilty On All Charges « CBS Baltimore
45/47
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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May 23, 2016, 01:29 PM
 
So the guy who took Freddie gray into custody is not liable for his death. Interesting.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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May 23, 2016, 01:30 PM
 
Also Blue Lives Matter bill is a fun one.
     
 
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