[AviH]

I ordered a dual 2.5 w/6800 as a developer, on sept 14th. Around oct. 5th apple tried to bill me (to ship the order) and I got this all taken care of and the billing done that day, apple told me the order would ship in 12-24 hours. I called daily, for almost two weeks, asking where is my order, and having sales reps tell me it would ship in 12-24 hours. Finally it caught on that perhaps my order was not going to ship. After quite the hassle, my box shipped, It is still unknown as to why my box had a status as 'shipping' for two weeks, yet never shipped, the box did exist and as far as anyone can tell, was ready to ship.

Okay hey, no big deal, its a mess-up, whatever.
My box arrives.. dead logic board. Great. I take it into my local mac shop within 20 minutes of unpacking it, they order a new logic board, and apple ships it out.

Okay, so next day comes, logic board has arrived. Local mac shop says hey, we can't get this board installed until monday at the latest (5 days into the future at this point) I say uhm, thats unacceptable, there has been way to much delay getting this machine, do it now. Insert $65 fee to bump me to the 'front of the line.'

Three hours later, the mac shop calls me back. Guess what. Dead logic board.

Thats right, Apple sent me TWO dead logic boards, in a row.

Here is where I get upset, I call Apple and let them know what is going on, then after making it perfectly clear that I have *no problems* paying this $65 fee (I did just pay $3k+ for a computer, didn't I? I can afford $65.) *IF* the logic board had actually worked. The problem was, I just paid money to get something installed that didn't even work *from apple*. The fun part is if I had not paid to get second bad logic board installed that day, I would not have known it was a bad board until 5 days later, THEN apple would have to send out *another* logic board, making it at least 8 days to get my machine fixed which shipped broken.

I asked apple to reimburse me that $65, to kind of accept some responsibility for shipping me two bad logic boards in a row. What do they do? they tell me its not their fault at all, they have nothing to do with bad hardware, they just 'ship parts that are ordered'

Apple said no, not going to happen (about the $65). After talking extensively with apple, and supervisors, I basically got the impression of "Sucks to be you, man you have bad luck. oh well. oh hey, want us to ship you a new machine in TWO-THREE MONTHS?"

Needless to say, I am utterly shocked by the way Apple treated me--moreso being a developer order--and I have requested a pickup to return the computer & refund my 3k.

~Avi

[Turnpike]

I got 3 or 4 dead logic boards in a row. Apple's QC has really slipped up...

[Thinine]

You should have talked directly to Apple right away. Would have been free and faster.

[Macanoid]

Yes, make a big fuss about it now. I ordered my dual 2.5 from the Apple store as well and am far from happy with the treatment I got. Plus, one of the processors was dead upon arrival so I had the whole processor replaced with two week. No fun at all, especially not if you'd been waiting a long time for the machine's delivery.

Anyway, complain big time. I did (went directly to the sales-guy's boss) and got a huge discount on my last-ever Apple Store order, Motion. (from now on I'll only order from a dealer!)

[MindFad]

Bitch those mofos out. Write Steve if you have to.

[Detrius]

I'm just curious... how did they determine that it was a bad logic board? I haven't had much of any problems with Apple parts for a VERY long time. Did they ever fix the machine? How did they determine it was not a bad processor to begin with?

[Mafia]

Originally posted by Detrius:
I'm just curious... how did they determine that it was a bad logic board? I haven't had much of any problems with Apple parts for a VERY long time. Did they ever fix the machine? How did they determine it was not a bad processor to begin with?

he said that he returned the machine for a refund. same here haven't had any problems with apple hardware, the only thing i can say is that out of all the successful machines i'm sure its a low percentage that had hardware problems. dunno for sure though.

[Doktorfaust]

I can totally sympathize. I have a *very* long story about a dual 2.0 I ordered back when they were first announced June of last year.

Basically I got the machine, it had problems. I waited on the phone. They replaced parts. I waited on the phone. They replaced more parts. I waited on the phone some more. They tried to charge me for those parts. I yelled on the phone. They replaced even more parts. By this time, the machine was more broken than it started, so I managed to get a refund because the machine was technically DOA and they should have offered me a replacement to begin with. (This last step actually required many additional frustrating hours on the phone).

In the end it took me three months of waiting to get my computer, four (?) months of attempted repairs, and somewhere over 40 hours of waiting on the phone. This doesn't even count the in store repair attempts apple wanted me to do.

However many months later, and I'm still without a replacement computer. I figured I was going to order rev b machines when they came out, but now I don't have any of the money left (marriage is expensive!).

I was VERY frustrated with Apple's QC, and customer service. I was not treated well, with only a few expections. Why would I still buy a mac after all this? I'm a sucker...

[Mafia]

Originally posted by Doktorfaust:
Why would I still buy a mac after all this? I'm a sucker...

heh we won't get into why you should still buy a mac. i'm sorry you had such a sorry time but i'd buy one from a 3rd party dealer who has tested all their machines and most likely should not be broken. i bought mine from apple and it worked fine but i'd try 3rd party.

[The Placid Casual]

Ahh, Apple's own original brand of customer service ( Stories like this make me pretty mad, as there is no excuse for it...

All in, having 2 dead logic boards in a row it very bad luck, as on Powermacs, I have only had one such issue in all the PMs I have owned... however when Apple messes up, it does it fine thoroughbred style.

I would serious kick off at apple, email 'Steve', and demand some serious reparations...

[art_director]

sorry to hear of your pain.

got my dual 2.5 straight from the apple store. out of the box the CD drive wouldn't open � go figure. took it in and it was fixed in fifteen minutes. now she's purring like a kitten.

[AviH]

I finally got ahold of my developer contact, she told me this was silly for me to have to repair a brand new machine (at this point, my local mac shop tells me well, we are on the third logic board, but this board we know works, but the computer still won't boot up, we aren't sure why) So I have my RMA number and I am returning it. They have ordered me a new dual 2.5, but the date is set to 12/03/04, I made it clear if its not in my hands in a week, I'll follow through with my original plan to return the machine and just not buy & dev on OS X. I already sent a certified letter to apple last week about all of this mess. I have been offered nothing more than a replacement machine. No discounts, no gifts, nada. I'm really asking for a machine that works, and one that works *now*, but I am amazed at the lack of anything else.

[AviH]

Macanoid,
The funny part is, I *did* talk to a supervisor, I told her how upset I was with the service I was receiving from Apple, I was blown off. I told her this was ridiculous, there was no reason to treat me like this and I wanted to return my computer. She happily connected me to a sales rep to do the return. Indeed.

[AviH]

Originally posted by Detrius:
I'm just curious... how did they determine that it was a bad logic board? I haven't had much of any problems with Apple parts for a VERY long time. Did they ever fix the machine? How did they determine it was not a bad processor to begin with?

My fans were running high speed the entire time the system was on. At the behest of the apple tech I put the hardware diagnostics disk into the system and ran it, while it was *trying* to start up, it came up with an error code, which I read to the tech and he informed me this was a logic board error code, in addition to the fact that it said 'bad logic board' or 'error on logic board' something to that effect. That was what started me on the repair process of a bad logic board. As I posted above, they (the mac repair shop) was on the 3rd logic board and said something *else* is wrong now, it won't boot up, but Apple had given me my RMA by then so I just said box it up, its going back to Apple.

[Macanoid]

Originally posted by AviH:
Macanoid,
The funny part is, I *did* talk to a supervisor, I told her how upset I was with the service I was receiving from Apple, I was blown off. I told her this was ridiculous, there was no reason to treat me like this and I wanted to return my computer. She happily connected me to a sales rep to do the return. Indeed.

Way to go Apple, not!! That's even worse than I experienced. Really sorry to hear that. They really shouldn't take out their problems on the customers, 'cause that's what this sounds like.

I'm also getting my processor in my 2.5 replaced for the 2nd time in a few weeks, plus my hard drive as well. Quality Control is doing a great jobs at Apple

[Powermaxx]

We just recieved 7 2.5's....Two seem to be working fine, did these issuses show up right away or over time?

[VukOnCrack]

I would always run the extended hardware test on any G5 you purchase. Of four machines in the past three-four months, two have had problems. Bad Apple!

[Macanoid]

Originally posted by Powermaxx:
We just recieved 7 2.5's....Two seem to be working fine, did these issuses show up right away or over time?

In my first case directly, after processor replacement over time. Getting a new processor again.

[AviH]

Currently I am awaiting a "new" 2.5, we have worked out that I will remove the 6800 from my current 2.5 I am returning and Apple will ship me a new dual 2.5 with a radeon 9600XT in it (within a week or I return everything and just get my money back) then, I am supposed to mail them back the radeon 9600XT. Pretty sure at my own expense too.

[FrankMtl]

I feel for you bud.
I just got back my 2month old 2.0 DP: it went in for a logic board replacement. The 1st LB they got was dead while the second one worked. The tech from the service provider remarked that the parts they're ordering lately are plagued with (his words) "from the laughable to the bizarre"
If this computer still shows problems Apple will be hearing from me...

Frank

[MOTHERWELL]

I'm sorry about your problem -- but I am glad that I canceled my order before it shipped and avoided any potential headaches.

[bsodmike]

VukOnCrack: Thanks for the note! My new 1.8Ghz G5 has been giving a 'little' trouble with the Superdrive, but apart from that it 'seems' alright...

Running the Extended test right now. Good idea to check right now so I can send it back in the event of it being faulty!

(And get a refund of course...)

Will report back with the outcome...Apple surely must be running the extended test before shipping (as a bare minimum?)



Mike

[serpico]

I have owned several Mac computers over the years ,two lc IIs, a 7500, a dual 500 G4, a 1.25G G4, a 15" 867 powerbook and a performa 6300...... I have never had any problems in the first year and only had a problem during the extended warrantee period on the 7500( hard drive bit the dust)
my guess is that you either have had bad luck or poor repair techs........either way you should have been treated better by the phone support people, make sure you comment directly to Apple computer, the phone service people probably are an outside contractor..... Apple needs to know they suck so they can fix the problem.

GOOD LUCK

[cc_foo]

Horrible stories.

I'm sure Virginia Tech got perfect G5 machines.

[leonpro]

I also have a horror story for my DP2.5. Ordered within the week it was released and waited for at least a month. Finally got the unit BTO with everything. Everything looked fine until I tried to connect to the Airport Extreme wirless network - no signal. My old Ti PB500 which is notorious to have bad signal was showing a full bar signal in the area. My DP2.5 showed none. When I spoke to Apple Online I ran into more problems as they discovered they couldn't even attend to my problem because my serial number doesn't exist. The other problem is that they didn't install the Airport card properly causing the antenna pin to bend. Would you believe they were even doubting I may have caused the problem. I told them this was factory installed and I called to complain the day I received it.

Over the course of two months I would be calling them up and be going thru the usual horrendous phone service as I am elevated to three "supposedly" highest tech support personnel (Apple Specialist) who couldn't do anything nor did they call me back despite repeated promises.

I finally told my credit card company to dispute the charges. After awhile I received an email from Apple by a Shannon Archer. She emailed to give me an RMA number and to give another option - if I wanted to keep it instead. Keep it? What was the complain all about for the defective part and unknown serial number. That was the worse and most stupid I've heard. I emailed back stating I will only accept the charges if they replace the unit. No response after one week. I emailed again. No response. That's customer support to you. They contact you when they need you, when you need them - SILENCE. Sharon Archer and her whole team of customer support - you guys suck!

So off it went after two months of real world use and DVD burning. It got more use than it bargained for. Bad for them. Another refurb on the way to their store. I could have purchased it, if only they gave fast support and repair within the week of purchase. it could have been better if they sent out units that actually work. With that kind of expense, I would surmise they do testing before sending it out.

Instead, their arrogance is costing them more money and lots of units being sent back - used.

I got a cheaper DP2.0 computer under ADC discount with all the options again. Received it two days ago, ran the extended test - passed. Aiport works full bar and I'm with a brand new computer once more.

Of course a 2.5 would have been great, but I used it for what it was worth. Now I'm doing my usual surfing and email with a DP2.0. Still fast for my needs.

[Agent69]

I would like to say that I am sorry that people are having problems with Apple's Support; that has not been my experience. I had issues with both a G4 Cube (died in a puff of smoke) and a PowerMac G4 MDD (bad RAM slot) and both were resolved quickly.

I suspect most people have experiences like me. But when Apple's tech support messes up, they sure mess up big time!

[Macanoid]

I get the feeling the extra problems are 2.5 related, in that the machines perform way below what was expected (stabilty- and problem-wise) and that Apple has serious difficulties in replacing the processors because IBM can't produce them fast enough.

Hope I'm wrong here........

[The Placid Casual]

Out of 30+ Macs, I have only had issues with:

iBook 500
Powerbook G4 550
Powermac Dual 867

Seemingly a good enough ratio, but each repair took on average 12 WEEKS! Included in this is dreadful customer support, machines being sent back 10+ times, faults being described as 'features' etc.

Yep, when things go wrong, they go wrong in a fine style only Apple can perfect.

Just when I lose faith, I get a machine like my current one... a Rev A Dual 1.8 Ghz G5. Perfect in every way. No crashes, no instability, no performance issues, nothing to jade the experience. (Touch wood).

In a way, this is why I love Apple. Strange but true... Until next upgrade anyway.

[Link]

Why is it always the people who buy the more expensive machines tend to get blown off with issues like this while people who buy the cheap crap always have "excellent" service? Seems even TPC had this problem and saw both sides of the fence, lol.

[kentuckyfried]

I ordered the one of the newer 1.8 ghz machines back around in June, and the firewire port on the front was DOA. I was quickly offered either a repair or replacement. I didn't want to take chances so I went with the replacement, which would take longer to ship.

But in any case, the whole procedure was completely painless. I'm sorry that you had so many problems getting your PM 2.5 fixed. =(
That sort of response from Apple customer service isn't acceptable at all. Within the first month of purchasing your computer, you're entitled to a repair or replacement. At least that was what I was told on the phone.

[wildsurf]

I posted this on the MacRumors forums, but this seems like a good place for it too.

I ordered the 30" Cinema and graphics card at the WWDC in June, originally slated for Aug 15th, and it finally shipped on Oct 14th. FedEx inexplicably lost track of the package for a few days, (including a claimed delivery, with a bogus signature on the online tracking page), but it was eventually delivered, without consistent explanation, on the 20th. (Weird.)

I assumed that the setup would be plug & play, so I naively plugged and played. Kernel panic!! Restart, Kernel panic. The graphics card came with a CD, which I hoped might be bootable with the drivers on it. No luck. Finally had to take out the new graphics card, put in the old one, restart (at half-res on the 30"), install the fan firmware update, restart, install the NVidia drivers, restart, shut down, replace the graphics card with the new one, then finally restart. Success.

First impression: WOW!! Overwhelming. (I'm moving up from one of the original 22" DVI Cinema Displays, which after four years has aged to a parchment-like sepia-tone.) Test for dead pixels: None!! Test for stuck pixels: One, marginally, blue-green, in the lower right corner. Not bad, not bad at all!

But after a few minutes of use, I noticed that I kept subconsciously dragging all the windows to the right half of the screen. Huh? So I set the screen all white, and took a step back. WHOA! The display is about 50% brighter on the right half than the left half!! Setting the screen to pure white, I took a photo from several feet away to verify the non-uniformity. Open these links in sequence, and you can use the browser forward and back buttons to flip between them. The first is the original photo, and the second is the same photo flipped horizontally:

Original Photo
Flipped Photo

As you can see, the non-uniformity is quite extreme, and I have no choice but to return the display for this reason. (There's also a slight pinkish cast relative to my other displays, though this is very minor.) I'll post again when I get a replacement display; hopefully sooner than later. Has anyone else experienced this non-uniformity, or tested for it?

-Ben

[eddd]

Wildsurf, I think you'll find nearly all LCDs vary to that degree. It's tough to judge by your jpegs, but it's safe to say many vary far more than what you've experienced. Not just LCDs, either - CRTs often have shadowy areas. Making the entire screen white (or black, for that matter) is a good way to expose this. Try it at your local computer store (if they'll let you). You'll see what I'm saying.

My guess is that the immense size of the 30" CD (and immense price) has magnified the normal variations. I'm not recommending that you keep the monitor by any means - that's up to you. But if you repeat this test on other monitors, I think you'll see the same results. I have several high-end Sony LCDs at home, and work with numerous Apple CDs and Samsung LCDs at work. ALL have variation in lighting, either in the vertical or horizontal direction. All my Mitsubishi and Sony CRTs have darker areas as well.

So is it a real problem? Isn't absolute accuracy necessary for color-critical work? Won't this throw off your color judgements for soft proofing, etc.? The truth is, there is no such thing as absolute accuracy when it comes to color reproduction (either on screen or in print). There are just too many variables. It's true that you should attempt to eliminate as many variables as possible, but at some point you need to replace "perfect" in your vocabulary with "acceptable." Otherwise, you'll waste a lot of time, money, and health worrying about something that cannot be reasonably fixed. Judging from your jpegs, I'd say that this is an acceptable variation that wouldn't lead to erroneous decisions on your part in regard to proofing.

There is a reason Barco (and other) monitors cost $6000+. The 30" CD is still a consumer monitor, and a reasonably-priced one, given the size and rarity. I think it's futile (and again, unnecessary) to expect perfection, especially in a consumer device.

[The Placid Casual]

Originally posted by eddd:
Wildsurf, I think you'll find nearly all LCDs vary to that degree. It's tough to judge by your jpegs, but it's safe to say many vary far more than what you've experienced. Not just LCDs, either - CRTs often have shadowy areas. Making the entire screen white (or black, for that matter) is a good way to expose this. Try it at your local computer store (if they'll let you). You'll see what I'm saying.

My guess is that the immense size of the 30" CD (and immense price) has magnified the normal variations. I'm not recommending that you keep the monitor by any means - that's up to you. But if you repeat this test on other monitors, I think you'll see the same results. I have several high-end Sony LCDs at home, and work with numerous Apple CDs and Samsung LCDs at work. ALL have variation in lighting, either in the vertical or horizontal direction. All my Mitsubishi and Sony CRTs have darker areas as well.

So is it a real problem? Isn't absolute accuracy necessary for color-critical work? Won't this throw off your color judgements for soft proofing, etc.? The truth is, there is no such thing as absolute accuracy when it comes to color reproduction (either on screen or in print). There are just too many variables. It's true that you should attempt to eliminate as many variables as possible, but at some point you need to replace "perfect" in your vocabulary with "acceptable." Otherwise, you'll waste a lot of time, money, and health worrying about something that cannot be reasonably fixed. Judging from your jpegs, I'd say that this is an acceptable variation that wouldn't lead to erroneous decisions on your part in regard to proofing.

There is a reason Barco (and other) monitors cost $6000+. The 30" CD is still a consumer monitor, and a reasonably-priced one, given the size and rarity. I think it's futile (and again, unnecessary) to expect perfection, especially in a consumer device.

I get what you are saying entirely, and I concur that there is no such thing as perfection, only lesser degrees of imperfection. And yes, there will always be variation due to uncertainties in the manufacturing process. However... I'm not so sure that is the issue in this case...

I think that monitor is faulty, possibly a backlight issue, and is in no way IMHO acceptable.

In my Apple 17" LCD, now a few year old, one tube has dimmed a fair bit, the other is as good, and as bright as new. The effect on the screen is the same. I accept that in a 4 year old screen, however if I had just bought a 30" Cinema display and the same kind of issue and/or fault was there out of the box, I would not be a very happy Mac user at all.

I disagree that the item is purely a 'consumer' device, it is clearly aimed at the 'Pro-sumer', but that does not in any way matter. There is no excuse. You have to have some standards, and to me that is not up to the mark that should be reached by Apple whether you have paid $10 or $10000 for a product.

Peace out,

TPC

[Deal]

Who was this local Mac Shop?

I can see why Apple didn't want to give you $65 if this Mac Shop was not an Apple Store.

I can also see why this has been more trouble. The local Mac shop mis-evaluated the bad logic board multiple times. In many ways this is their fault.

If you replace a part and it still doesn't work you had better start checking other components. That is a clue that doesn't take a genius to figure out.

I don't appologize for Apple though. Apple did not handle this as well. If I get a new product and it doesn't work, there should be a new one on the way. This would all have been avoided if they had just replaced it. At very least they could have been more cordial.

[spacefreak]

Originally posted by AviH:
I ordered a dual 2.5 w/6800 as a developer, on sept 14th. Around oct. 5th apple tried to bill me (to ship the order) and I got this all taken care of and the billing done that day, apple told me the order would ship in 12-24 hours. I called daily, for almost two weeks, asking where is my order, and having sales reps tell me it would ship in 12-24 hours. Finally it caught on that perhaps my order was not going to ship. After quite the hassle, my box shipped, It is still unknown as to why my box had a status as 'shipping' for two weeks, yet never shipped, the box did exist and as far as anyone can tell, was ready to ship.

Okay hey, no big deal, its a mess-up, whatever.

Mess-up my ass. This is the typical Apple end-of-quarter BS of boosting their numbers to pump up their stock price.