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bernt · 11:08 AM

So, anyone got any advise for which to choose? I've heard the screens in the first MBP's aren't that good, especially when viewed from the side. Anyone compared glossy screens directly with normal screens? Benefits, disadvantages?

EDIT: Found this on the macworld page: "Glossy displays have been available in notebooks from other manufacturers for some time, but this is the first Apple notebook to include it as a feature. According to Apple, with good reason.

“People have done glossy displays in the past, but it is only now that the quality is at a level that we are happy to put in our products,” said Schiller. “We left it out because the color changing just wasn’t acceptable to us.”"

Does this mean than the MBP screens are better than what people have seen in PC's?

Severed Hand of Skywalker · May 16, 2006, 10:53 AM

I have seen glossy screens on PC's and they are horrible. They reflect everything in the damn room. I can't imagine why Apple would want to add them to their lineup.

"Our Pro users are used to the anti-glare display on the MacBook Pro and we didn’t want to switch that on them,” Philip Schiller, Apple’s senior vice president of Worldwide Product Marketing, told Macworld."

So why would they want to put MacBook owners through that?

This reflection pretty much sums it up.

TheIceMan · May 16, 2006, 11:09 AM

I guess I'm in the opposing camp because I like the glossy screens. Yes they reflect things, but they also greatly enhance the screen's clarity and crispness, not to mention also bringing out colors.

Elixir · May 16, 2006, 11:11 AM

i'm not a fan of the glossy screens. it all depends on what you're using your macbook for really. if you're a performer on stage a glossy screen would be horrible, if you're just using it for waching movies or playing games then sure go glossy.

still not a fan though

Severed Hand of Skywalker · May 16, 2006, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by Elixir

if you're just using it for waching movies or playing games then sure go glossy.

I a dark room and don't even think about using that "portable" outside.

bernt · May 16, 2006, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

I a dark room and don't even think about using that "portable" outside.

PCWorld highly disagrees with that statement:
"I've viewed the DV1000's screen both indoors and out; and I've been amazed by how crisp and legible it is, even in direct sunlight. (Most notebook screens look washed-out in bright light.)

HP's BrightView makes everything on screen look better, crisper, and cleaner. Best of all, with the DV1000, I can sit at an outdoor cafe table on a sunny day and work."

Link: http://www.pcworld.com/howto/article...,118951,00.asp

I'm a bit confused here, how can someone say that the screens are shitty when used outside, and others praise it?

Is HP's Brightview different from what Apple is using?

Severed Hand of Skywalker · May 16, 2006, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by bernt

I'm a bit confused here, how can someone say that the screens are shitty when used outside, and others praise it?

You wanna discus on why 95% of the world uses windows or non-ipod MP3 players?

But to be fare it depends on what type of screen Apple is using. Some are ****, some are ok. I have never seen a glossy one that didn't reflect like mad though.

Kadman · May 16, 2006, 12:36 PM

My 8 year old daughter has a 14" widescreen Toshiba with the glossy finish and we hate it. It's tough getting the right angle to see it while trying to watch movies on long car trips and it's even a pain in the house depending on where it's at in relation to lights, windows, etc. I've promised never to make the mistake of having a glossy screen again. This completely removes the Macbook from my possible solutions list. Other than that it doesn't look too bad. What a shame!

bcaslis · May 16, 2006, 12:45 PM

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but I really want the glossy screen. From the ones I've seen they make everything look much crisper and I don't find glare a problem. From the screens I've seen you either get washed out glare (anti-glare screen) or brighter but smaller amounts of glare with the glossy screens. Take a look at an iPod video, is it a glossy or anti-glare screen? That's right it's glossy. I'll bet right now that the next major rev of the MacBook Pro sees the glossy screen become standard.

I'm going to get one, I just need to decide between 15" and 17".

Enigmaaron · May 16, 2006, 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by bcaslis

Take a look at an iPod video, is it a glossy or anti-glare screen? That's right it's glossy.

And it is small and easy to turn away from glare producing light sources to an easily readable position.

I'll bet right now that the next major rev of the MacBook Pro sees the glossy screen become standard.

And I'll bet they won't. Take a look at the high definition TV market. Half the TVs are glossy and half are not, and some give you the option. I would guess that most people love one and hate the other in a 50/50 distibution for each. Like you said everyone is entitled to their opinion and Apple would be foolish to take away the choice. Personally I can't stand glossy screens, gloss only belongs on still photo's and lips.

P.S. When I bought my HDTV my final decision was made because of a glossy screen.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · May 16, 2006, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by Enigmaaron

P.S. When I bought my HDTV my final decision was made because of a glossy screen.

Same here. I didn't get a plasma because I could see everything else in the room reflected unless I sat in total darkness.

badtz · May 16, 2006, 01:10 PM

how about from a graphic design's POV? does the glossy finish bring less color accuracy?

Powerbook · May 16, 2006, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by Kadman

I've promised never to make the mistake of having a glossy screen again. This completely removes the Macbook from my possible solutions list.

Why should it? Since you can choose the type of display when you order, just get a matte one.

For myself, I would not get a glossy one, that's for sure.

Regards
PB.

Angus_D · May 16, 2006, 02:36 PM

Originally Posted by Powerbook

Why should it? Since you can choose the type of display when you order, just get a matte one.

Uh, there is no option for MacBooks, only for MacBook Pros.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · May 16, 2006, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by Angus_D

Uh, there is no option for MacBooks, only for MacBook Pros.

What he said.

ginoledesma · May 16, 2006, 03:47 PM

I got my mom a Gateway laptop that had a glossy screen. It does make the colors look more vivid and is pretty good when used in the sunny outdoors. By comparison, the PB12 I have looks washed out and is almost impossible to use with a lot of sunlight. However, like the others stated, I didn't like the fact that the glossy screen made it look like a mirror -- in my room with controlled lighting, the glare and reflection can get annoying (especially when watching movies!).

Severed Hand of Skywalker · May 16, 2006, 04:10 PM

Yup, the screen sucks. Look at those reflections! Why APPLE why?!

fowler · May 16, 2006, 04:30 PM

sounds weird, but that keyboard is hideous. everything else, a-ok

also, seeing as it's a black matte, i'd be so afraid that it'd get scratched up.

pete · May 16, 2006, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by bernt

So, anyone got any advise for which to choose? I've heard the screens in the first MBP's aren't that good, especially when viewed from the side. Anyone compared glossy screens directly with normal screens? Benefits, disadvantages?

EDIT: Found this on the macworld page: "Glossy displays have been available in notebooks from other manufacturers for some time, but this is the first Apple notebook to include it as a feature. According to Apple, with good reason.

“People have done glossy displays in the past, but it is only now that the quality is at a level that we are happy to put in our products,” said Schiller. “We left it out because the color changing just wasn’t acceptable to us.”"

Does this mean than the MBP screens are better than what people have seen in PC's?

Well then Schiller should cancel all MBPS immediately and replace their screens since 'color changing' is worse on these than any recent powerbook 15".

Powerbook · May 16, 2006, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by Angus_D

Uh, there is no option for MacBooks, only for MacBook Pros.

My bad.
That's crap!

PB.

slugslugslug · May 16, 2006, 08:32 PM

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

Yup, the screen sucks. Look at those reflections! Why APPLE why?!

When are they gonna add a forum around here called "Why, Apple, Why?"

(For the record, I agree with you that it's a shame that they made Teh Glossy mandatory on the MB. Been on the fence about buying one, but I'm definitely waiting 'til I see 'em in the, er, flesh)

Horsepoo!!! · May 16, 2006, 08:38 PM

I've never seen a screen, glossy or not, not reflect like mad in sunlight.

I've never seen a laptop that was usable in sunlight...if you know of one, let me know. Thanks.

kcmac · May 16, 2006, 10:04 PM

My son and I looked at the MacBooks in the Apple Store this evening. While the glossy screen is somewhat of a tricky thing, head on it is beautiful. When looking over someone's shoulder and off to the side a little, it is not as good as a non-glare screen.

Being that I use my computer head on, I don't see that much of a problem. The screen did appear better than screens I have seen in the past on PC laptops.

Compared to my 12 inch 867 PB, there is no comparison. This screen is far superior.

n8236 · May 16, 2006, 10:25 PM

I agree w/ most of the posts here.

If u're a photography/movie/game/asethetic/shinny stuff type of user, then the glossy will fit you well. Pictures do look better, movies seem like higher quality, and there's this initial "ooo" from ppl who never seen or used a glossy screen b4. Some ppl just like shinny anything

But in retrospect, the glare and reflection can really get in the way, especially in a surrouding that does not have evenly distributed light (ie. classroom w/ ceiling & outside light from windows). My buddy has a 17" glossy screen on his Sony and I almost feel kinda homo having to be closer than him than I like to looking at his screen for project and sharing laptop purposes.

------------------

My desk is next to a huge pane of glass my mbp does very well during the day.

It all comes down to user preference, and having the option would be ideal. But for efficient production purposes, maybe that's why Apple locked the MB w/ gloss screens only *shrug*

bloodline · May 17, 2006, 03:25 AM

I hate glossy screens... You always end up with some annoying refelction somewhere on the screen, unless you're a troglodyte and live underground in total darkness.

I'm glad the MBP's still (at least) have the option to go for a nice high quality antiglare display!

onlykaria · May 17, 2006, 03:39 AM

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

Yup, the screen sucks. Look at those reflections! Why APPLE why?!

giggle giggle look at your leggies!

yeah the images are sharper but the glare is killer!!!

uicandrew · May 17, 2006, 04:07 AM

from what i read, the glare is the worst when it comes to flourescent bulbs, so pretty much any institution (ie - offices, libraries) and other non-home places.

i guess the best place is to go to best buy and/or circuit city and look at their "brightview" or whatever the glossy technology term they use and see for yourself if the glare is tolerable.

i personally think they are really nice, and they are like looking at a flat CRT screen. (yeah, remember those?)

Yakov · May 17, 2006, 04:39 AM

um... yes. (see signature)

Severed Hand of Skywalker · May 17, 2006, 10:17 AM

I guess it is possible to get some sort of matte screen protector and place it over the glossy screen.

Dog Like Nature · May 17, 2006, 10:38 AM

If one buys the glossy screen it'll be easy to add a matte diffuser on top later on, but it's impossible to take the matte anti-glare layer off a screen that has it built in. So, I say go with the glossy.

These guys can change the screen on the older Books, but they're not cheap.
http://www.screentekinc.com/pixelbright-lcds.shtml

Enigmaaron · May 17, 2006, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by Dog Like Nature

If one buys the glossy screen it'll be easy to add a matte diffuser on top later on, but it's impossible to take the matte anti-glare layer off a screen that has it built in.

I would think it would be just as easy to add a glossy coating to a screen with a matte finish. Just like adding wax to a car or stain to wood.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · May 17, 2006, 12:18 PM

Well, here is your answer. Glossy is for idiots. I have to agree with him:

http://arstechnica.com/staff/fatbits.ars/2006/5/16/4004

Dog Like Nature · May 17, 2006, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

Well, here is your answer. Glossy is for idiots. I have to agree with him:

http://arstechnica.com/staff/fatbits.ars/2006/5/16/4004

Well, that's a bit of a knee-jerk reaction from John, isn't it? Take a look at the comments, and a lot of glossy-screen users don't appreciate being called idiots.

Of course, the ideal situation would be being able to choose glossy/matte on both MacBook and MBP -- who knows, maybe that'll happen soon.

bcaslis · May 17, 2006, 12:51 PM

Written by someone who has not personally seen the MacBook screen (since he's reposting the pictures on the net).

Anti-glare do not eliminate the glare, it merely diffuses it. So now instead of smaller bright glare, you get washed-out white-ish glare over a larger region. Don't necessarily strike me as better, just different. The only picture posted show reflections on the glossy screen. To do a fair comparison you need pictures of the anti-glare and glossy screens in the same place with the same lighting. The anti-glare screens on the MBP would be showing some glare and reflections in those same conditions just not as sharp as the glossy.

See one in person for yourself and decide. Buy the one you like. I personally like the glossy and I'm glad there's now a choice.

EdipisReks · May 17, 2006, 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by Dog Like Nature

Well, that's a bit of a knee-jerk reaction from John, isn't it? Take a look at the comments, and a lot of glossy-screen users don't appreciate being called idiots.

no surprise, idiots never like being called idiots.

onlykaria · May 17, 2006, 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

Well, here is your answer. Glossy is for idiots. I have to agree with him:

http://arstechnica.com/staff/fatbits.ars/2006/5/16/4004

i have to say i also completely agree with the his statements that glossy is for idiots. i do hope this is not the be beginning of the end for anti-glare at apple.

ehunt · May 17, 2006, 01:45 PM

Thank god for forums like this...I pre-ordered my 17'inch the day it was released and was freakin' when I read how Apple described the positives of the Glossy screen...now I am nice and happy (again!)

Spirit_VW · May 17, 2006, 02:30 PM

I'm really, really happy with the (non-glossy) screen on my 15" MacBook Pro. Not sure about the comment in the first post, but my screen is fantastic. Even works well enough outside.

kcmac · May 17, 2006, 02:39 PM

Read somewhere that the lcd is a low reflection glossy polarizer. Anyone know much about it?

In any case, we looked at the screen on the MB and liked it.

Velocity211 · May 17, 2006, 04:57 PM

My friend's HP DV1000 has a glossy screen and it really annoys me when I try to use it. It's looks a lot nicer when you play games in the dark or something, but horrible to use in the light. Apple should make the glossy screen an option for the MB, like the MBP.

Dr.Michael · May 17, 2006, 05:21 PM

Originally Posted by bernt

PCWorld highly disagrees with that statement:
HP's BrightView makes everything on screen look better, crisper, and cleaner. Best of all, with the DV1000, I can sit at an outdoor cafe table on a sunny day and work."

The important thing is a anti reflective coating. Some of you wear glasses? Get them without coating and you see your face reflected in your own glass. Get them with a 3 layer coating (the ones that look a little green) and the reflection is absorbed by 99% (the one percent left looks green).

Great notebooks have this (some high end sonys). But it comes with a price. I doubt that the Macbook is coated. But thats what makes the difference between unusable (except as a shaving mirror) and great. The coating suppresses the disadvantageous reflection and lets the colors shine.

I would never wear glasses without coating. Lets apply the same to Macbooks and wait for rev b

.

bcaslis · May 17, 2006, 06:41 PM

I'm still looking for the article, but there was an interview with the portable group marketing director yesterday that I believe said that the glossy screen they are using does have an anti-reflection coating (although I don't think it said what kind exactly).

Originally Posted by Dr.Michael

The important thing is a anti reflective coating. Some of you wear glasses? Get them without coating and you see your face reflected in your own glass. Get them with a 3 layer coating (the ones that look a little green) and the reflection is absorbed by 99% (the one percent left looks green).

Great notebooks have this (some high end sonys). But it comes with a price. I doubt that the Macbook is coated. But thats what makes the difference between unusable (except as a shaving mirror) and great. The coating suppresses the disadvantageous reflection and lets the colors shine.

I would never wear glasses without coating. Lets apply the same to Macbooks and wait for rev b

.

Yakov · May 18, 2006, 12:53 AM

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

Well, here is your answer. Glossy is for idiots. I have to agree with him:

http://arstechnica.com/staff/fatbits.ars/2006/5/16/4004

That's a pretty idiotic article itself. Apparently it burst like Athena, fully-grown, out of the author's ass, with no research or forethought whatsoever. Here's a gem:

I can't really rule out the cost issue without more information, of course. But for now, I'm sticking with the idiot theory.

Thank you, John Siracusa.

Anyway, what I hear in all this is not glossy or matte screens but new screens, as in, some attention was paid to the screen mistakes from the MBPs, so we paupers who had to wait for the MB are rewarded with a better-engineered product. Hooray for us.

Y.

tricha6 · May 18, 2006, 01:18 AM

Hey, I used to like John Siracusa, but his formula (pick some obscure thing and rant for 3,000 words on it; end with - "Apple must fix this now or they will die!") has gotten a little tired (DB does it too).

I never liked the glossy screens on PCs, which is a total personal preference. But I went to the Apple Store today, and thos Macbook screens aren't anywhere near as glossy as Sony's or others. I wasn't at all distracted by a glare. Instead, I thought the colors look more saturated and vivid when compared with the MBP (they had the two side-by-side).

It probably isn't faithful color rendition for (but many would argue anything short of a calibrated screen, and even anything short of a CRT is worthless for color correction) but for my needs, I prefer the MB screen. We'll see if that opinion holds up over time, but at least I looked at the screens before I formed an opinion.

If you don't like the glossy screens, no problem. But at least look at them before you say "Glossy is for idiots."

Dog Like Nature · May 18, 2006, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by tricha6

If you don't like the glossy screens, no problem. But at least look at them before you say "Glossy is for idiots."

Thank you! That's exactly the point I was trying to make earlier. I can't believe someone like John Sircacusa would say something like that. Of course, to keep everyone happy, Apple should make glossy/matte an option on the MB, but anyway, I doubt the current glossy-only MBs is simply a cost-cutting measure as some would have us believe.

Bryanmc · May 18, 2006, 11:59 AM

I just ordered a MacBook Pro yesterday and did not go with the glossy screen.

I've sepnt enough time with Windows ones that I knew not to get it. They can look great, if you're sitting head on and can control the lighting. But I use my laptops to do a ton of sales presentations and people are looking from different angles and I can't control where a light is going to be. So there's no way I could go with the glossy. The viewing angle on glossy screens simply isn't as good, IMO.

I like that they give the option for MBPs, it's just not for me.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · May 18, 2006, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by Yakov

That's a pretty idiotic article itself.Y.

He is 100% right when it comes to TV's though.

Harry Schaefer · May 18, 2006, 03:55 PM

this thread has been most helpful. I am in the midst of an order and the notes convinced me to stay with non glossy screen for my purposes and elsewhere I was helped to go for the faster although smaller drive. Choices and timing but need to jump in somewhere.

amazing · May 18, 2006, 04:17 PM

As far as the screens go, "glossy" is such a tectonic plate shift for the Mac universe, you really need to wait until the lava stops flowing and the ash settles. Way too early for any considered opinions.

Same with the keyboard.

Now if the screen ends up being decently-viewable at the cafés or the outdoor wifi hotspots (for example, NYC is saying they're going to make Central Park a wifi zone) then it's a whole different ballgame. Coffee together with MacBook, the good life continues. My 12" PB fades to grey outside...

tricha6 · May 18, 2006, 04:21 PM

There really is no keyboard issue. The spacing between teh keys is the exact same space that you find on Apple's white keyboards and Powerbook keyboards. The only difference is that the keys on those keyboards are trapezodial in shape, so there looks to be less gap, but the space between the top surfaces is the same.

The only real difference is that the Macbook keys aren't slightly concave, but instead flat. This may give a different feel (it didn't for me) for some.

I guess if you type and hit in between the keys, then yes, the Macbook keyboard is slightly different, but if you hit the tops of your keys, typing should be the same.