[FozzieUK]

Hi

Got a nearly 12 month old dual 1.8 G5. Only got the Nvidea card in it. I can't find the ATI 9600XT Mac Edition anywhere in UK to buy although it is a BTO option. I want to upgrade but not up to 9800 level (�300). I have only seen the 9000 and 9200 cards for sale in UK.

What's my best option please?

TIA

[The Placid Casual]

Originally posted by FozzieUK:
Hi

Got a nearly 12 month old dual 1.8 G5. Only got the Nvidea card in it. I can't find the ATI 9600XT Mac Edition anywhere in UK to buy although it is a BTO option. I want to upgrade but not up to 9800 level (�300). I have only seen the 9000 and 9200 cards for sale in UK.

What's my best option please?

TIA

I am in the same situation... although my bug is about the Apple UK price for Mac cards.

I am really considering flying to the US (going anyway in a few weeks so there would be no special trip) to get a card and save the cash.

The card selection and prices in the UK are just dreadful

Peace.

TPC

P.S. I am just across the water from you on the Wirral !

[Mafia]

i wonder why they wouldn't offer it in the uk? if its not available over there and you can't get someone to ship it overseas i'd wait for the price on the 9800 to come down.

[Al G]

It's not available in the US either, at least not as a normal retail purchase. Aside from CTO (or as a service part if you're authorized), the only way to get a 9600-class card is to find one used from someone who has upgraded.

Same story with the 9800XT. It's only available from Apple and they won't sell it to you without an entire machine to go with it. (The 9800XT is more desirable than the Pro or SE--which are available retail--because it uses a quieter fan.)

[Mafia]

Originally posted by Al G:
It's not available in the US either, at least not as a normal retail purchase. Aside from CTO (or as a service part if you're authorized), the only way to get a 9600-class card is to find one used from someone who has upgraded.

o.. i didn't know that.

[FozzieUK]

It will have to be a 9000 or 9200 then. Do they work in a G5? I thought one was PCI only. Apple store are selling these, I need the AGP one but it doesnt mention that on web site.

Thanks for info so far, Placid, yes we are not far apart, have you been a Mac user for long? I have since the first 128k machine

[jamil5454]

Which Nvidia card do you have in it now? The 9000/9200 are only DirectX 8 generation cards while the Nvidia 5200 is a DirectX 9 generation card. The 5200 may be a little slow, but it will be able to do some things hardware-wise the 9000/9200 can't. As for the 9800XT, don't get it. Here's why:

-It is almost expensive as the current x800, which hopefully should come out for mac soon.
-It is only marginally faster than a 9800 Pro, but at over %150 the price.
-It is decently faster than the 9800 SE, which is crippled due to its 4 pixel pipelines, instead of 8 like the Pro and XT. This effectively halves fill-rate performance.

In the PC world, everyone is rushing to get 9800 Pros because they can be had for US$200, while the XTs are still over US$300. If you can find a 9800 Pro, get it. Otherwise, the 9600 series are still good (the mainstream version of the 9800 series) and a 9600XT will probably be great if you're not a gamer. Both the 9600XT and 9800 Pro have 128Mb of DDR memory, but the 9800 Pro is easily faster than the 9600XT. Try checking eBay first for a 9600XT then for a 9800 Pro (if you want a little bit better card) and see if they will ship it overseas or something.


PS - I thought you could just buy a regular Built-By-ATI 9600 XT and plug that into your mac? I'm still a mac newbie - do they not have AGP slots?

Oh yeah, do NOT get a 9000/9200 if you want CoreImage/Video. You'll need at least a 5200 (DirectX 9 era) card for this.

[polendo]

Correct me if I'm wrong but Directx instructions are PC based only; they have nothing to do with Mac OS.

But I do have to agree, that a 9000 or 9200 wouldn't help you that much if you currently have a 5200.

regards

[jamil5454]

You're right, DirectX is a Microsoft thing. But, ATI and Nvidia build their cards to support a certain set of features.

With that said, OpenGL is the same way. I noticed that the minimum video card to support CoreImage/Video is a DirectX 9-class card, even though DirectX is not used on a Mac. Since Mac uses the OpenGL 3d API, let us talk in those terms. A Radeon 9200 only supports OpenGL 1.3, while the 5200 supports 1.4. OpenGL 1.4 has a minimum standard of higher precision shaders than 1.3, so that's my guess as to why CoreImage/Video needs an OpenGL 1.4 or higher card.

You'll hardly ever see a card that's OpenGL 1.4 compatible but only DirectX 8.1 compatible. DirectX and OpenGL use the same features of the card, just in different ways.




I personally hope DirectX dies.

[FozzieUK]

Thanks for the warning about the 9000/9200, I won't be getting one of those. Why are they �129!! I just want a 9600 which are in G5's. I bet when I can get one they will be �200 were a PC one is about �90.

I have heard about updating BIOS on a PC card to make it a Mac. ( I don't need ADC ) I will look into that.

Thanks

[jamil5454]

If the BIOS is the only thing that differentiates a PC version from the Mac version, then theoretically it should be possible to flash it with a Mac BIOS and save yourself some cash.

[mikerally]

The nVidia GeForce FX 5200 you already have, has support for CoreImage, CoreVideo and etc in Tiger. The ATI Radeon 9000 and 9200 cards do not.

You can pretty much consider switching to those cards as a downgrade in that matter.

My recommendation would be to buy a PC version of the card (one that fully complies with the reference design and matches it's Mac equivilent as closely as possible).

I think you can use the ROM from the ATI Universal Update (available from ATI's website) to flash the card in a PC.

Check xlr8yourmac.com for flashing reports and feedback.

While the card does not have an ADC port, it does have DVI (supporting Apple's current generation of displays) - but not dual-DVI :-(

[Strix]

Excuse me if I'm missing the point, but whilst lots of people seem to complain about the poor graphic's cards in the G5's and iMacs, there aren't any alternatives unless (a) you upgrade as a BTO which must be done at the time of purchase, or (b) you have some techie awareness and have the know how about flashing roms.

Despite the G5 being so "upgradable", graphics wise there aren't any real options for joe public.

[The Placid Casual]

Originally posted by Strix:
Excuse me if I'm missing the point, but whilst lots of people seem to complain about the poor graphic's cards in the G5's and iMacs, there aren't any alternatives unless (a) you upgrade as a BTO which must be done at the time of purchase, or (b) you have some techie awareness and have the know how about flashing roms.

Despite the G5 being so "upgradable", graphics wise there aren't any real options for joe public.

Umm, no.

There are indeed lots of cards available, from the Applestore no less...

You just need cash... wherein lies the issue.

You can upgrade to a Radeon 9800 pro, 9800 Pro SE, 9800 XT (I think), 6800 GT, 6800 Ultra, and soon the new ATI X800.

You just need to mortgage your soul, or have money to burn to buy the card. Which hurts as the PC versions are 1/2 the price...

We only flash PC cards to escape paying the price premium over our PC counterparts, there is no genuine necessity to do this.

Peace,

TPC