[Shaddim]

We're all consumers, the world economy is driven by consumption, and if it isn't for the necessities of life, it's for enjoyment. If you see a movie star out and about, most of the time it's in an expensive car, wearing expensive clothes, and sporting the latest gadgets, while on their way to whatever business or entertainment they're involved with.

When you see this, what's the first thing that comes to mind?

6640/width/350/height/700[/IMG]

What about this?

6641/width/350/height/700[/IMG]

In both cases, it's none other than conservation heavyweight Leo Dicaprio. Does he need the $100k Fiskar Karma? No, but he sure does like to be seen in it. It's the same with other social icons, and there are none more flamboyant than Hip hop/Rap stars. Lil Wayne owns more than $25M in homes, $20M in cars, and enough bling to pave a basketball court. Don't even get me started on Paris Hilton, Kim Kardashian, Simon Cowell (aka. Mr. Maybach), and almost all high-profile pro athletes. It's a huge list, really. I've taken some flack on this forum for mentioning the things I own, but it pales in comparison to the flash of the entertainment and business elite. Does it all bother you? Do you feel slighted by the consumption of the rich and famous? If they weren't consuming, they'd be hoarding, and how would that benefit anyone?

[andi*pandi]

Celebrities are like mythical beasts; it's their job to appear unrealistic, have huge houses, fancy cars, bling. It doesn't seem like rubbing our noses in it because they are removed from us in their unreal plane: glamourous and exotic and yes conspicuous. It's not personal. Some do criticize them for their wealth, but on the flip side celebrities are just as conspicuous when they drive a prius, donate to the Red Cross, and try to be role models. It's all a show.

I don't mind you sharing your toys.

[Uncle Skeleton]

I'm not immune from jealousy and sour grapes, but I largely don't give a crap what other people do with their idle wealth. If asked, I respect someone who sacrifices when given the chance, especially their time or sweat equity over mere donations. But on the other hand, we the underclass benefit greatly from the early adopters, and none of our precious trinkets would exist without the conspicuous consumption of yester-year. So I'm glad there are people to support the outlandish industries that I'll eventually get to enjoy when they become ordinary and boring.

[raleur]

So?

I haven't read any posts where you've been criticized for buying or owning things, so I'm not sure what your point is. Is it that people who make a living from the adulation of others like to flaunt themselves? Or that wealthy people buy expensive things?

[osiris]

Flaunt it, baby! Flaunt it.

[The Final Dakar]

I think you lay out the obvious issue right in the OP. Conspicuous consumption. How many of us knew Leo had a Prius vs. the other car?

Do I find Jay Leno's car collection revolting? No, because it's obviously something he cares a lot about and enjoys doing. The same likely can't be said for a lot of rappers. So for many people I imagine it's not what they have, but why they have it or how they use it.

Still, I have difficulty seeing how a small pool of people purchasing niche products is that great of a benefit. To me anyone who tries to show how they're helping people/the economy by buying these products is likely trying to massage a guilty conscience or overvalue their self-worth.


Well, that should get the ball rolling.

[lpkmckenna]

I don't fault anyone who has made it for buying a nice car or two, and nice house or two, and nice clothes. Buy a jet and a boat too.

I am, however, weirded out by Leno's or Seinfeld's absurd collection of cars, or the people who can't remember how many homes they own.

But I have the same reaction to the pointless opulence of royals and the Vatican. Who the fnck needs a chair made out of gold? And how many cats do you need to own, lady?

It has nothing to do with wealth. I just don't collect things, and I don't know why people do. I try to minimize the amount of stuff I have around. Maybe that's why I like computers: it doesn't matter how much crap I cram into this machine, it doesn't take up any more space.

I'm actually annoyed by too much space; it's just a tax on my time, needing to be kept clean. I have some wealthy relatives, and every time I'd visit, they'd mention they don't have time to mow their massive lawns. Why the hell do you have such a massive lawn in the first place?

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

If they weren't consuming, they'd be hoarding, and how would that benefit anyone?

There are other alternatives beyond consuming and hoarding. John Carmack is spending his money on rocket research. George Clooney put a bunch of money into satellite surveillance of Darfur. Keanu Reeves is notorious for his reserved lifestyle and passing along his wealth to his co-workers in the film industry who made his fortune possible.

The world is full of scientific, artist, and humanitarian endeavours starved for funds. No one is gonna remember how many cars Leno owned, except perhaps as a punchline.

[subego]

I'm sure Leno's cars will go into a museum at some point. I'd say his real crime is not being funny.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by subego 

I'm sure Leno's cars will go into a museum at some point. I'd say his real crime is not being funny.

His crime is his love of denim.

[subego]

As someone who wears a "uniform" of their own volition, I appreciate it.

Why waste the brain power?

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by subego 

As someone who wears a "uniform" of their own volition, I appreciate it.
Why waste the brain power?

This ignores that at some point he thought "What if I wear denim for the rest of my life?" and thought it was a good idea.

[subego]

Well, I would have picked more cotton.

[reader50]

Conspicuous consumption makes the participants happy, creates jobs for the rest of us, and promotes early adoption of new products.

I've been curious about Shaddim's Tesla because most of us will be buying electric cars in 20 years. It's reassuring to have first-hand reports that electric cars are going to be pretty darned good.

No problems here, and the pics are interesting.

[raleur]

Originally Posted by subego 

I'd say his real crime is not being funny.

You, sir, are correct.

[subego]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

If they weren't consuming, they'd be hoarding, and how would that benefit anyone?

Exactly. That insurance for your Lambo? Consider it as subsidy for those who are less fortunate than yourself.


Edit:

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

I think you lay out the obvious issue right in the OP. Conspicuous consumption. How many of us knew Leo had a Prius vs. the other car?
Do I find Jay Leno's car collection revolting? No, because it's obviously something he cares a lot about and enjoys doing. The same likely can't be said for a lot of rappers. So for many people I imagine it's not what they have, but why they have it or how they use it.
Still, I have difficulty seeing how a small pool of people purchasing niche products is that great of a benefit. To me anyone who tries to show how they're helping people/the economy by buying these products is likely trying to massage a guilty conscience or overvalue their self-worth.
Well, that should get the ball rolling.

Thanks, and you make a great point bringing up Leno. He does flaunt his wealth. Leno's Garage is quite conspicuous, and you get the keen impression that there's nothing he likes more than to drive and show off his collection. I can relate to that. It's a bubbly feeling when people will stop for a moment and enjoy what I'm driving. Hostility? What I've encountered in the real world has been largely centered around fuel economy and my big ol' Bronco has taken some heat from hardcore Greenies. They dislike the big 8-10mpg monster.

Yeah, spending piles of money isn't an ideal way of giving back to society, by any means, but it is better than not. As for a small pool, relatively speaking, you're right. However, McLaren is now projecting over 12,000 (!) of their 12C supercars will be sold in the USA during its product cycle. Think about that for a second, it's a $275k car. Over that 7 year cycle, factor in all other cars in the $200k+ class, and you have 48,000 cars, or almost 7,000 /yr. That's twice as many as ever before. On average, that's a $2.1B /yr industry (at $300k /car avg), in the USA alone, and that's only counting the initial retail sale. That figure increases dramatically when you factor in service and aftermarket products, and then there's resale and grey market. Overall, the luxury sector is booming, in spite of broad economic indicators and forecasts.

Sorry, I digress. So, what you're saying is, the key is the "why" and not the "what"? In that, I feel the same way.

Originally Posted by raleur 

So?
I haven't read any posts where you've been criticized for buying or owning things, so I'm not sure what your point is. Is it that people who make a living from the adulation of others like to flaunt themselves? Or that wealthy people buy expensive things?

You're rather new, it's gotten nasty before.

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

Celebrities are like mythical beasts; it's their job to appear unrealistic, have huge houses, fancy cars, bling. It doesn't seem like rubbing our noses in it because they are removed from us in their unreal plane: glamourous and exotic and yes conspicuous. It's not personal. Some do criticize them for their wealth, but on the flip side celebrities are just as conspicuous when they drive a prius, donate to the Red Cross, and try to be role models. It's all a show.
I don't mind you sharing your toys.

Thanks... I think. Roger, Roger.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by subego 

I'm sure Leno's cars will go into a museum at some point.

I have a deal like that already in place.

[subego]

Oops. NM.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by subego 

Exactly. That insurance for your Lambo? Consider it as subsidy for those who are less fortunate than yourself.
Edit:

I'm self-insured now, and have been for a while. It makes more sense in the long run.

Originally Posted by reader50 

Conspicuous consumption makes the participants happy, creates jobs for the rest of us, and promotes early adoption of new products.
I've been curious about Shaddim's Tesla because most of us will be buying electric cars in 20 years. It's reassuring to have first-hand reports that electric cars are going to be pretty darned good.
No problems here, and the pics are interesting.

Hardly anyone makes comments, so it's difficult to gauge interest. As for them being any good, the Model S was just awarded Motor Trend Car of the Year and was a Car and Driver CotY finalist. I concur with their judgments. Aside from my wife forgetting to plug it in, it's been faultless. Maybe there should be a louder ping and big flashing lights to remind people to do that?

[subego]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

I'm self-insured now, and have been for a while. It makes more sense in the long run.

If only for the reduction in MacNN bitch-fests at your, ahem... expense.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by subego 

If only for the reduction in MacNN bitch-fests at your, ahem... expense.

Hey, as Leno said, "just because you can afford something, doesn't mean you like being gouged".

I finally put up a bond, printed cards for the holding LLC (as PoI), and put my attorney's number. After a certain number of cars, conventional insurance is impractical.

[subego]

Are you going to raise your daughter's rates when she gets in a fender-bender?

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by subego 

Are you going to raise your daughter's rates when she gets in a fender-bender?

You mean her driver's rates? I think grounding and loss of cortical node plug-in privileges will be sufficient.

[andi*pandi]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Thanks... I think. Roger, Roger.

hey, I didn't say YOU were a celebrity... point being that people whose jobs are entertaining us, do so as much driving down the street as they do in movies. Regular folk, now, when they flaunt wealth, it can cause jealousy. I've even mistakenly offended people by talking house prices... Spending $400k on a house makes me sound well-off, when the reality is far from it. I'm not bragging about my $400k house, I'm commiserating.

Does MacNN even have celebrities?

[raleur]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

Does MacNN even have celebrities?

Abe

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by raleur 

Abe

*raised eyebrow*

So, you're not so new here?

[raleur]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

*raised eyebrow*
So, you're not so new here?

No, I'm new, but I picked up several mentions of him, and had to do some research. Looks to me like he got exactly what he wanted, i.e. a level of attention approaching celebrity status.

[el chupacabra]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

I've taken some flack on this forum for mentioning the things I own, but it pales in comparison to the flash of the entertainment and business elite. Does it all bother you? Do you feel slighted by the consumption of the rich and famous?

It's unfortunate people tend to be so jealous over money. Most people find ways to splurge extra cash regardless of their wealth; where do you draw the line. I'd rather see a celebrity splurge on a fancy robot than a poor person splurge on beer, cigs, Lil' Wayne CDs, and a $10/month texting plan. The world would be a boring place if none of the the rich were spending money on fancy cars, concept architecture, mansions, yachts, hope diamonds, and future space tourism, because none of it would exist. Nobody would be able to save and have an occasional cruise because the industry wouldn't exist without the wealthy, many who live on those boats.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

hey, I didn't say YOU were a celebrity... point being that people whose jobs are entertaining us, do so as much driving down the street as they do in movies. Regular folk, now, when they flaunt wealth, it can cause jealousy. I've even mistakenly offended people by talking house prices... Spending $400k on a house makes me sound well-off, when the reality is far from it. I'm not bragging about my $400k house, I'm commiserating.
Does MacNN even have celebrities?

I know of one, I sent them here to ask Mac questions, but they haven't logged on here in years.

[mattyb]

Well I'll admit I'm jealous of wealth. Please don't try to convince me that by buying an expensive car, that you're doing the economy a favour. Buy and distribute 250,000 PCs instead of the latest super-car. That will do far more for the economy.

[subego]

Those would be some pretty crappy computers.

[reader50]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

Does MacNN even have celebrities?

We almost had Jean-Louis Gassee when he registered in August 2009. Yes, that really is his account.

But he had a password problem, and the admin box was clogged with spam when he emailed us. I ran across his email about a year later while clearing the box. Email address leaves no doubt about his identity. Although I did reply, it was far too late. We never heard back from him.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by subego 

Those would be some pretty crappy computers.

No kidding. Despite everything, I really haven't spent that much money. Also, 45% of what we've made this year has went to charity. So, guilt? Not so much.

[subego]

Told you making the Supercar museum a 501(c)(3) was a good idea.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by subego 

Told you making the Supercar museum a 501(c)(3) was a good idea.

When did you recommend that?

[subego]

j/k

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by subego 

j/k

It did cross my mind, but... nah. "Museum" implies that the public can come in and check it out, and that's a big negative.

[Shaddim]

Speaking of celebs... the only one I know well enough to call a friend. Recently...

Christian: Hey man, what's going on?
Me: Relaxing, doing some reading.
Christian: Umm, can someone come get me?
Me: Where are you?
Christian: Airport lounge.
Me: Why don't you call ahead?
Christian: I am, this is me calling ahead. Can I crash and unwind for a couple days?
Me: Sure man, no problem. I'll be there in 20 to get you.

He's eccentric, his normal state is similar to a chipmunk on speed, and more demanding than any 10 of my other friends, but I love the guy to death. It's strange how I instinctively feel like an older brother when I'm around him, even though he's a year older. None of us want anything from him, so he can completely relax.

[Shaddim]

BTW, andi, if you were a chick with a Wonder Woman obsession, would these appeal to you?

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#xmasshopping

[BLAZE_MkIV]

Wouldn't 501(c)(15) — Mutual Insurance Companies or Associations be better?

[subego]

They don't deflect bullets.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by subego 

They don't deflect bullets.

They might, that's pretty thick gold.

[subego]

The bracelets will, the Mutual Insurance Association won't.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by subego 

The bracelets will, the Mutual Insurance Association won't.

Probably wouldn't deflect the IRS either.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Speaking of celebs... the only one I know well enough to call a friend. Recently...

Christian: Hey man, what's going on?
Me: Relaxing, doing some reading.
Christian: Umm, can someone come get me?
Me: Where are you?
Christian: Airport lounge.
Me: Why don't you call ahead?
Christian: I am, this is me calling ahead. Can I crash and unwind for a couple days?
Me: Sure man, no problem. I'll be there in 20 to get you.

He's eccentric, his normal state is similar to a chipmunk on speed, and more demanding than any 10 of my other friends, but I love the guy to death. It's strange how I instinctively feel like an older brother when I'm around him, even though he's a year older. None of us want anything from him, so he can completely relax.

Slater

[andi*pandi]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

BTW, andi, if you were a chick with a Wonder Woman obsession, would these appeal to you?
6764/width/350/height/700[/IMG]
#xmasshopping

They're pretty... just be sure to get the right sizing/fit. Bracelets are a pita and those don't look like they should jangle.

[Shaddim]

It's still occasionally surreal sitting and talking with him over coffee with my daughter sitting in his lap.

Comment of note:

"F*ck! Is that a baby cheetah?"
"Nah, it's a Savannah kitten."
"Is it dangerous?"
"Only if you're a dirty sock."

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

They're pretty... just be sure to get the right sizing/fit. Bracelets are a pita and those don't look like they should jangle.

Thanks. They're close enough to the right size. Maybe slightly too big, but not nearly so much that they'd fall off with her arms down.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by raleur 

Abe

'NN, say hello to Besson's latest sock-puppet.

-t

[subego]

Really? I was thinking peeb.

[turtle777]

I don't have proof, but Besson is the only one on this forum who has a fetish for Abe.

-t