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Merging Lounge and Pol Lounge? (Page 3)
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Shaddim
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Nov 11, 2011, 07:10 AM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
but was especially a fan of the "you know, when us old guys were young, no one bashed gay people...I guess gay bashing is a product of this irresponsible young generation" tack. And that ladies and gentlemen is a beautiful, beautiful thing.
I love how you embellish this type of thing.

I don't remember anyone picking on the gays in HS. That's all I said, but for some reason, you decided to add the rest. Why is that? To make yourself look special? Just feel the need to make it up? Please, let us know.
( Last edited by Shaddim; Nov 11, 2011 at 07:17 AM. )
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
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Doofy
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Nov 11, 2011, 09:49 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
You left out the best part, when it got derailed into a discussion about how taxes are bullying.
That's not a derailment - it's a logical extension of the conversation pointing out the hypocrisy in the concept. It's not my fault that you can't see the whole picture and have to slice life up into itty bitty pieces in order to get your head around it, is it?
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
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The Final Dakar
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Nov 11, 2011, 09:55 AM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
That's not a derailment - it's a logical extension of the conversation pointing out the hypocrisy in the concept. It's not my fault that you can't see the whole picture and have to slice life up into itty bitty pieces in order to get your head around it, is it?
Sure it is.

     
andi*pandi
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Nov 11, 2011, 01:14 PM
 
Keep the bullying bickering in the bullying bickering thread!
     
reader50
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Nov 11, 2011, 03:42 PM
 
It's hard to respond to complaints of over-moderation, and to complaints of under-moderation at the same time. I tend towards the tolerance idea, keep things pleasant outside the Lounges and people will come. It worked for dead baseball types.

Our traffic drop traces to when the news comments became self-contained. The graphs began going down right after that. We are working on the issue, but progress has been frustratingly slow.

If interesting activity is desired in the PWL, one possibility not floated yet would be an amnesty. We could forgive all PWL bans that are more than a year old, and let the hair start flying.

edit: I can't think of anyone we've PWL-banned in the last year, so it would be a full wipe.
     
subego
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Nov 11, 2011, 04:34 PM
 
I second the amnesty proposal.
     
The Final Dakar
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Nov 11, 2011, 04:38 PM
 
Yeah, if we lock them in there.
     
Demonhood
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Nov 11, 2011, 04:38 PM
 
Half of the PWL bans I've done have been voluntary.
     
The Final Dakar
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Nov 11, 2011, 04:57 PM
 
Force them back inside.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Nov 11, 2011, 04:57 PM
 
I'm curious:

How many people have had themselves voluntarily banned from the Poli Lounge?

Also: Force me back into that shithole, and I'm out of here.
     
Lateralus
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Nov 12, 2011, 01:23 AM
 
Yeah... Just to reiterate my view; the PWL has no place on this board. It is toxic and vitriolic by nature. It does nothing but pander to the wet dreams of our most aggressive members while simultaneously scaring off newer members from either Lounge.
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subego
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Nov 12, 2011, 09:27 AM
 
Maybe you should have a talk with the mod staff then.
     
ghporter
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Nov 12, 2011, 10:21 AM
 
This has been a subject of significant discussion among staff members. The PWL has indeed been a major PITA for us in many ways, not the least of which being much of what Lateralus mentions in his post. In short, while we want to have appropriate venues for our members to discuss what they want to discuss, we need to have a better way to manage the "level and vigor of discourse" in specific types of discussions.

At the present, the PWL takes a significantly larger amount of effort and supervision than any of our other forums, and in fact it often takes much more supervision than groups of our other forums. This level of management is difficult to maintain, given the unpredictable nature of discussions there, and the tendency for what appear to be simple and civil exchanges to (for what are often undiscernable reasons) suddenly spiral into something horrible and terrible. It's like watching 10 flasks of nitroglycerine on the back of truck on a very rough road, and wondering if the next bump will set off one or all of them. That's a lot of work, even if nothing requires active intervention.

We are currently discussing the options available to us for maintaining maximum freedom of expression within reasonable limits to keep our current contributing members happy and not scare off new members with the vehemence and vitriol of established members' heated (and often rancorous) discussions in the PWL.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
subego
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Nov 12, 2011, 10:30 AM
 
Let's cut to the chase.

Why has the staff here been wholly unable to enforce what's already in the rules?

Personal attacks are supposed to be a no-go, yet they happen all the time. If they're being moderated, it's in such a way as to maintain a constant flow of repeat offenders.
     
ghporter
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Nov 12, 2011, 10:55 AM
 
Define, specifically and without any ambiguity what constitutes a personal attack. Make sure your definition is comprehensive and without loopholes or potential difficulties with interpretation. The definition must be perfectly applicable to all members and all discussions, whatever the context or subject. Keep the definition to less than 50 words. You have 5 minutes.

Sound difficult? It's extremely difficult! What one person considers an attack on himself may be considered only mildly annoying for another. Given the level of context, history and subject matter, deciding what is or is not a personal attack is a very difficult task.

While it may sound simple, it isn't. There are certainly good ground rules, such as "level of name calling" and the like, I don't see our membership even agreeing that statements on the order of "you're a piece of excrement that deserves to die in a fire" qualify as attacks.

If the staff steps up and intervenes before something gets to this level, we are ALL demonized as "censoring" discussions, "treating members like children" and "killing MacNN slowly and cruelly." If we step back for an instant to see whether the apparent victim feels like a victim, we take heat for being "uninvolved" and "not doing anything about" a situation. It's like trying to manage the Korean or Taiwanese Parliaments-they're usually nicely businesslike, but for no apparent reason they dissolve into fist fights and sometimes knifings! I'd rather be in a combat zone; at least there you KNOW that bad things will happen and you can be aware and on your toes for them-plus you know you'll eventually be rotated out and not have to worry about it.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
Cold Warrior
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Nov 12, 2011, 11:23 AM
 
In the past 30 days, there have been five abuse reports from PWL. Of those, one was basically the same as another report, and one was a banned member using the function to open a broader discussion. This leaves three real PWL abuse reports in the past 30 days. In two of those three, public moderation action was taken. In the third, an infraction was issued.

For comparison, about the same number were reported for the Lounge.

In PWL the abuse function helps us know what's on your minds, separate from the threads I review daily. I get complaints no matter what I do, in response to reports or without any. Some here hate the PWL, and some that participate think moderation is ok at present. Others would object. But if you're seeing violations, report them. In nearly all cases though, instant moderation isn't going to be possible, either due to time zones or day jobs. And I'd argue that by and large members don't want hair trigger moderation.
     
subego
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Nov 12, 2011, 11:51 AM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
Define, specifically and without any ambiguity what constitutes a personal attack. Make sure your definition is comprehensive and without loopholes or potential difficulties with interpretation. The definition must be perfectly applicable to all members and all discussions, whatever the context or subject. Keep the definition to less than 50 words. You have 5 minutes.
"[W]hatever the context" is tantamount to saying "context is irrelevant".

If the desire is for some reason to ignore the most important part of any exchange, then I agree there's no point, but it prompts the question of why you would want to do this?

Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
If the staff steps up and intervenes before something gets to this level, we are ALL demonized as "censoring" discussions, "treating members like children" and "killing MacNN slowly and cruelly."
So, if I were only louder and more obnoxious, you'd give my opinion more weight?
     
subego
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Nov 12, 2011, 11:55 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cold Warrior View Post
In the past 30 days, there have been five abuse reports from PWL.
Honestly, with what is allowed to fly in there, I don't see any point to making a report.

Maybe people get infractions, but users don't see that, and the same people keep shitting all over the place, so I'm not quite sure what it'd accomplish.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Nov 12, 2011, 11:57 AM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
the unpredictable nature of discussions there, and the tendency for what appear to be simple and civil exchanges to (for what are often undiscernable reasons) suddenly spiral into something horrible and terrible.




When I left, there was nothing "unpredictable" there, and the reasons were invariably the people themselves.

The only time I saw something unpredictable happen was when tnproud2b/whateverhislastnickwas conceded that Churchill had used firebombing as a weapon of terror specifically against urban civilians (albeit in response to German bombings). He seemed genuinely taken aback and affected, and IIRC actually left shortly after that (though I don't really think that was a reason for his departure).
     
ghporter
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Nov 12, 2011, 12:08 PM
 
I think my point about definitions was pretty well made. Further, it's pretty telling that the level of behavior is bad enough that, in spite of the difficulty and amount of effort involved in keeping things at the current level of uproar, we still have people who, like subego, don't see a point in reporting bad behavior because of the baseline amount of poo being flung on any given day.

As for predictability, Spheric has a point. We can usually predict that when Member A and User D are both involved in a thread, Bad Things will happen. Predicting that bad things will happen isn't the issue. It is when those bad things will happen. As I said, if we step in early enough to keep A from mentioning D's mom, the thread could very well turn on a dime and become "the mods are horrible because they don't let us express ourselves" instead of what it started out as.

As a member for over 10 years now (!??!) I think that the specifically looser rules for discussions in the PWL lead to worse behavior and generally nasty diatribes instead of encouraging more open discussions. The times I've become involved in PWL discussions, my inputs have often been completely misconstrued, not because my wording wasn't adequately precise, nor my point adequately applicable, but because of an illustrative clause or a particular turn of phrase that was particularly US American rather than Southern England English or the like. That surely doesn't encourage me to visit there much, nor to speak my own mind. As a staff member, I further have to be exceptionally clear when voicing my own opinion so that I am not put in the position to be interpreted as "speaking for the staff." That would be much easier if a few of our members did not behave as if they were looking for an opening to pounce on. Which I see as the major problem with the PWL rules: there is no way to say "this specific behavior is not allowed" when there are so many nuances involved.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
Cold Warrior
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Nov 12, 2011, 12:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Honestly, with what is allowed to fly in there, I don't see any point to making a report.

Maybe people get infractions, but users don't see that, and the same people keep shitting all over the place, so I'm not quite sure what it'd accomplish.
As a counterpoint, all three reports in the last 30 days were actioned, two of them publicly. And in early October, you self-reported for a personal attack and the entire thread was closed.
     
Lateralus
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Nov 12, 2011, 12:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Maybe you should have a talk with the mod staff then.
Brilliant suggestion.
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Spheric Harlot
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Nov 12, 2011, 12:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
As a member for over 10 years now (!??!) I think that the specifically looser rules for discussions in the PWL lead to worse behavior and generally nasty diatribes instead of encouraging more open discussions.
QFT.
     
subego
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Nov 12, 2011, 12:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cold Warrior View Post
As a counterpoint, all three reports in the last 30 days were actioned, two of them publicly. And in early October, you self-reported for a personal attack and the entire thread was closed.
That is by no means a bad thing, but I assume I wouldn't be alone in thinking there've been more than three actionable events over the last month. Like way more.

I don't think using the report function is in the PWL culture. The only person I don't hesitate to report is myself. Even that seems a little pointless.


Edit: to be clear, I'm not saying that culture can't or shouldn't change, I'm just observing on what it's like at this moment in time.
     
Cold Warrior
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Nov 12, 2011, 01:18 PM
 
Perhaps more than that, yes, and this morning I issued a warning based off of a review of posts from yesterday. But mods aren't omnipresent and if members aren't willing to invest a few seconds in reporting, it gets difficult to quantify problems beyond fallible impressions and memory.
( Last edited by Cold Warrior; Nov 12, 2011 at 01:29 PM. )
     
Dork.
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Nov 12, 2011, 01:19 PM
 
How often do posters really narc on other posters here? I think I may have reported a non-spam post once in the 10+ years I've been poking around here, and I think that post was so hateful it bordered on illegal. As far as I'm concerned, if someone's being an idiot, (and they're not doing it in an amusing way), I just ignore them, and go on with my business. And if there are folks who can't handle the fact that idiots exist, they shouldn't talk about politics online. So I'm in favor of keeping the PWL separate, if only because it will keep out posters who know they can't handle discussing different political viewpoints rationally. (It's the ones who don't know it that cause problems.)

The moderators are not your mom. They are not some sort of ultimate moral authority, they are just folks who volunteer their time to make the place suck less. Sometimes, I think the "Report" button does more harm than good, because it adds the concept of victimhood to all the crap that goes on in the PWL. I wonder how many posts are reported because they blatantly violate rules, how many reports are over a technical violation that really doesn't matter, and how many are reported because someone is a precious little flower who can't take the notion that someone else might have a conflicting viewpoint, and interprets any attempt to refute their views as a personal attack?

I have noticed that I spend less time here in general, because there is less traffic than there used to be, and the discussions in the PWL are all with the same six people, with generally well-known stances. I could probably write the threads myself ahead of time if I wanted to. I should try that sometime!
     
Demonhood
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Nov 12, 2011, 06:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dork. View Post
... and how many are reported because someone is a precious little flower who can't take the notion that someone else might have a conflicting viewpoint, and interprets any attempt to refute their views as a personal attack?
Bingo. A great deal of abuse reports in the PWL fall into this category. Also, people only report those they disagree with politically (unless their post is especially egregious, like they photoshopped Hitler's face onto a picture of their opponent's baby). And every action we take in the PWL is seen through the eyes of politics. So if we infract a conservative, it must be because we're hippies and want to quash the right-wing viewpoint. We infract a liberal, we're fascist pigs hellbent on suppressing the truth.
And even if they don't argue about our politics, they must immediately respond with "Well, I hope you infracted the other guy too!" Because, naturally, we must also punish the victim for being weak/stupid/available enough to be victimized. Because that's equality.

So that's why no one wants to mod that forum. And that's also why I don't think we should merge the forums. Those people who cry and whine about politics will always do so. No amount of moddin' is going to change their behavior.
     
mattyb
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Nov 12, 2011, 06:49 PM
 
Please don't merge the Pol Lounge and the 'normal' lounge.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Nov 12, 2011, 06:58 PM
 
Just delete it outright and have regular lounge moderation rules continue to apply to the lounge.
     
subego
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Nov 12, 2011, 08:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by Demonhood View Post
Bingo. A great deal of abuse reports in the PWL fall into this category.
Has it been that way lately? CW said all of the grand total of three reports this month were actioned upon.
     
Cold Warrior
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Nov 12, 2011, 08:46 PM
 
In the last 30 days, no. But I'm sure it's just a lull, because yes, it's generally like that.
     
subego
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Nov 12, 2011, 09:04 PM
 
Hmm... That's too bad.

Well at the least, I'll start reporting people instead of attacking them and then reporting myself.

I'm on everybody's side, so I'm sure all my reports will fall into the "good guy" category.
     
Athens
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Nov 13, 2011, 12:12 AM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
This has been a subject of significant discussion among staff members. The PWL has indeed been a major PITA for us in many ways, not the least of which being much of what Lateralus mentions in his post. In short, while we want to have appropriate venues for our members to discuss what they want to discuss, we need to have a better way to manage the "level and vigor of discourse" in specific types of discussions.

At the present, the PWL takes a significantly larger amount of effort and supervision than any of our other forums, and in fact it often takes much more supervision than groups of our other forums. This level of management is difficult to maintain, given the unpredictable nature of discussions there, and the tendency for what appear to be simple and civil exchanges to (for what are often undiscernable reasons) suddenly spiral into something horrible and terrible. It's like watching 10 flasks of nitroglycerine on the back of truck on a very rough road, and wondering if the next bump will set off one or all of them. That's a lot of work, even if nothing requires active intervention.

We are currently discussing the options available to us for maintaining maximum freedom of expression within reasonable limits to keep our current contributing members happy and not scare off new members with the vehemence and vitriol of established members' heated (and often rancorous) discussions in the PWL.
One thing that would help is nailing people hard for taking stuff out of the PWL. Its one thing to bicker in PWL its another to bicker in the normal lounge. Many times peoples characters get referenced in the normal lounge from a thread in the PWL. Same goes for general hostility. Example Screener told me to get out of his home theatre thread after a post. That was just general hostility that should have gotten a warning. And I have seen it happen to a few people.
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Athens
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Nov 13, 2011, 12:32 AM
 
Originally Posted by Dork. View Post
How often do posters really narc on other posters here? I think I may have reported a non-spam post once in the 10+ years I've been poking around here, and I think that post was so hateful it bordered on illegal. As far as I'm concerned, if someone's being an idiot, (and they're not doing it in an amusing way), I just ignore them, and go on with my business. And if there are folks who can't handle the fact that idiots exist, they shouldn't talk about politics online. So I'm in favor of keeping the PWL separate, if only because it will keep out posters who know they can't handle discussing different political viewpoints rationally. (It's the ones who don't know it that cause problems.)
Posters narc on others when they want to cause them problems. Not because of general hurt feelings. And depending on which mod reads the report, common sense is used in either (taking action or not) or because of the mods own personal dislikes acts on the report even if its something generally would have been ignored.

Then you get the inconstant moding. What I mean by this, something that is allowed in 15 threads over and over, not touched on for weeks suddenly becomes a issue after a report.

And a recent example of these, since its public

I say to some one in PWL "I just can't imagine what it is like to have such a closed and narrow mind. I really can't imagine it."

Its reported

Publicly mod replies "Not an appropriate comment to another member."

yet totally ignores a counter comment "Being gullible is not the same as having an open mind."

So its not ok to say some one has a closed and narrow mind, yet it is ok to say some one is gullible.

But worse, you point this fact out you get this

"Don't be such a victim. You started it and 'gullible' is hardly going to collapse a psyche. "

Totally inconsistent moding, and side taking. You started it so you will get a warning yet I will ignore the counter. And at the same time define gullible as ok but narrow minded isn't. From my stand point calling some one narrow minded is no different from saying they are gullible and both shouldn't be a offense that results in a warning. If that was the case almost every post should get a warning on PWL.
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Missed 2012 by 3 days, RIP Grandma :-(
     
Shaddim
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Nov 13, 2011, 12:43 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Honestly, with what is allowed to fly in there, I don't see any point to making a report.

Maybe people get infractions, but users don't see that, and the same people keep shitting all over the place, so I'm not quite sure what it'd accomplish.
You call that abuse? Sorry, but IMO the PWL is the most relaxed, peaceful, and downright hospitable political discussion forum I've ever seen. You want to see hostile? Go look at the Anandtech P&N forum. It's brutal, vulgar, and has been the source of some half dozen official investigations, that I know of, for death threats. We're not "shitters", we're bona fide peace pipe smokers on the verge of kicking off global tranquility, in comparison.

Hell, there's more antagonism at my Thanksgiving dinner than in the Lounge and PWL, combined.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
     
Shaddim
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Nov 13, 2011, 12:46 AM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
Posters narc on others when they want to cause them problems. Not because of general hurt feelings.
I only report when I see someone else getting hit below the belt, and I think that's probably the case with most others too.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
     
Athens
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Nov 13, 2011, 01:05 AM
 
Another example of what leeds to conflict in the PWL

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton View Post
Your concern might begin and end with "death" but mine doesn't. There are far more injuries than deaths. Besides, I already have a helmet. Also there's still disagreement over whether helmets actually increase danger to the neck... but you could hardly make that claim in my case (anymore).

Given that a helmet is used properly, what is the remaining risk distribution, between head (only) and neck? I can't find any statistics that specific. But my head was already protected to some extent, and my neck wasn't protected at all.
Same thing could have easily been said

There are far more injuries than deaths. Besides, I already have a helmet. Also there's still disagreement over whether helmets actually increase danger to the neck... but you could hardly make that claim in my case (anymore).

Given that a helmet is used properly, what is the remaining risk distribution, between head (only) and neck? I can't find any statistics that specific. But my head was already protected to some extent, and my neck wasn't protected at all.
Now I feel forced to reply pointing out his error that I also said "That said it could cut down on injuries allowing for quicker rehab and less costs. " making that little remark inflammatory to just start a conflict. This happens all the time both in the PWL and regular lounge by those that don't like some one else.
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Missed 2012 by 3 days, RIP Grandma :-(
     
ShortcutToMoncton  (op)
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Nov 13, 2011, 08:52 AM
 
I think Athens has stumbled onto the root of the problem: the PWL has conflict because everyone else but Athens is causing the problems in there.

Makes sense to me.
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Doofy
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Nov 13, 2011, 09:28 AM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
You call that abuse? Sorry, but IMO the PWL is the most relaxed, peaceful, and downright hospitable political discussion forum I've ever seen. You want to see hostile? Go look at the Anandtech P&N forum. It's brutal, vulgar, and has been the source of some half dozen official investigations, that I know of, for death threats. We're not "shitters", we're bona fide peace pipe smokers on the verge of kicking off global tranquility, in comparison.

Hell, there's more antagonism at my Thanksgiving dinner than in the Lounge and PWL, combined.
So basically, what you're saying here is that MacNN is full of pussies. Surely not?
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
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Doofy
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Nov 13, 2011, 09:29 AM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
I think Athens has stumbled onto the root of the problem: the PWL has conflict because everyone else but Athens is causing the problems in there.

Makes sense to me.
It's this kind of crap which is the problem. Couldn't resist that little opportunity to dig the knife in, eh Greg?
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ShortcutToMoncton  (op)
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Nov 13, 2011, 01:01 PM
 
It's pretty funny that you're doing the exact thing you're accusing me of doing.

Haven't been to the Lounge yet but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you're a little bitter about some jazz topic, perhaps? So you figured you'd find another thread where I make a smart-alec comment that's completely within the bounds of the Pol Lounge or the regular Lounge or any other area, and try to call me out on it...thus exhibiting the exact behaviour that people have been complaining about from the Pol Lounge, where bitter debates flow over into other topics?

Hilarious.
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Doofy
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Nov 13, 2011, 01:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
It's pretty funny that you're doing the exact thing you're accusing me of doing.

Haven't been to the Lounge yet but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you're a little bitter about some jazz topic, perhaps? So you figured you'd find another thread where I make a smart-alec comment that's completely within the bounds of the Pol Lounge or the regular Lounge or any other area, and try to call me out on it...thus exhibiting the exact behaviour that people have been complaining about from the Pol Lounge, where bitter debates flow over into other topics?

Hilarious.
I'm not bitter dude. I'm having a laugh. Stop projecting.
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Nov 13, 2011, 06:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
You call that abuse? Sorry, but IMO the PWL is the most relaxed, peaceful, and downright hospitable political discussion forum I've ever seen. You want to see hostile? Go look at the Anandtech P&N forum. It's brutal, vulgar, and has been the source of some half dozen official investigations, that I know of, for death threats. We're not "shitters", we're bona fide peace pipe smokers on the verge of kicking off global tranquility, in comparison.

Hell, there's more antagonism at my Thanksgiving dinner than in the Lounge and PWL, combined.
That's interesting to note. It goes well with my contention that there's nothing wrong with the PWL. Some people are a little too uptight and can't stomach any conflict. They're clearly not cut out for political forums.

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Nov 13, 2011, 06:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
Another example of what leeds to conflict in the PWL



Same thing could have easily been said



Now I feel forced to reply pointing out his error that I also said "That said it could cut down on injuries allowing for quicker rehab and less costs. " making that little remark inflammatory to just start a conflict. This happens all the time both in the PWL and regular lounge by those that don't like some one else.
Hi Athens

Do me a favor and go back to your own post in that thread, and read your first sentence. Don't you think your post could also have been made less "inflammatory" without that first sentence, and not lost any of your message?

Look I don't think either one of us has any grounds to get our hackles up over that thread, tame as it was, but I do want to point out how hypocritical you're being (in general, not just in this post). You've got two problems here, you are too eager to get offended over nothing, and at the same time you're too loose with the criticism you dish out to other people, without taking the time first to consider how it might be construed or if your intended context is clear. Those two factors are going to continue to combine to make your life an unhappy one, until you start taking the effort to change your attitude.
     
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Nov 13, 2011, 06:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
That's interesting to note. It goes well with my contention that there's nothing wrong with the PWL. Some people are a little too uptight and can't stomach any conflict. They're clearly not cut out for political forums.
I agree with both of you, kudos to the mods for whatever hard work they're doing behind the scenes. From this user's perspective, things seem to be working remarkably smoothly.
     
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Nov 13, 2011, 08:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
I think Athens has stumbled onto the root of the problem: the PWL has conflict because everyone else but Athens is causing the problems in there.

Makes sense to me.
Another perfect example, you being a total ass yet again for no reason. This very post is the root of the problem. Open hostilities, plain and simple. I'll be sure to return the favor at the earliest opportunity.
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Athens
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Nov 13, 2011, 08:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton View Post
Hi Athens

Do me a favor and go back to your own post in that thread, and read your first sentence. Don't you think your post could also have been made less "inflammatory" without that first sentence, and not lost any of your message?

Look I don't think either one of us has any grounds to get our hackles up over that thread, tame as it was, but I do want to point out how hypocritical you're being (in general, not just in this post). You've got two problems here, you are too eager to get offended over nothing, and at the same time you're too loose with the criticism you dish out to other people, without taking the time first to consider how it might be construed or if your intended context is clear. Those two factors are going to continue to combine to make your life an unhappy one, until you start taking the effort to change your attitude.
Honestly no, I don't think it was inflammatory at all. If any one else can look at it and tell me its inflammatory I'll retract what I just said now.

I just don't know how useful that would be. My assumption (cuz I haven't looked) is that the majority of motor cycle deaths are head injuries. That said it could cut down on injuries allowing for quicker rehab and less costs.

I think a Oh Shit button with a ejection seat / parachute would do wonders in preventing injuries lol
What is inflammatory here?
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Uncle Skeleton
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Nov 13, 2011, 08:52 PM
 
So preventing injuries isn't "useful?"
     
Uncle Skeleton
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Nov 13, 2011, 09:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
Another perfect example, you being a total ass yet again for no reason. This very post is the root of the problem. Open hostilities, plain and simple. I'll be sure to return the favor at the earliest opportunity.
No, it's not for no reason. It's because the way you conduct yourself pisses people off constantly*. Instead of acting all butt-hurt and playing the victim, some people respond with humor instead.

*no, I don't think you're doing it on purpose. I don't think you're even aware of it. You're forward. You don't hold your tongue, you don't mince words, you speak your mind. This is not necessarily a problem, in fact it can be quite a likable quality. The problem is that you expect everyone around you to walk on eggshells, when you're not willing to do the same. Your aggressive personality style begets the same in return. Deal with it. Get over yourself.
( Last edited by Uncle Skeleton; Nov 13, 2011 at 09:08 PM. )
     
Athens
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Nov 13, 2011, 09:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton View Post
So preventing injuries isn't "useful?"
Jesus Christ man are you doing this on purpose....

I just don't know how useful that would be. My assumption (cuz I haven't looked) is that the majority of motor cycle deaths are head injuries. That said it could cut down on injuries allowing for quicker rehab and less costs.

I think a Oh Shit button with a ejection seat / parachute would do wonders in preventing injuries lol
Do I need to make the font larger too....
Blandine Bureau 1940 - 2011
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