[Arty50]

I'm dying here! 47 days, 11 hours, 2 minutes, and 35 seconds. PST of course.

[havannas]

Originally posted by gorgonzola:

(1) Can you drag & drop folders into the "shelf" without opening customize?

(6) Any more news about the 5 sublevel limit on Dock popup menus?

1. You can do this in 4k17.... I have folders and app alias's up there.

6. A rule of web design is don't have hierarchies more than 3 levels deep. If your digging that deeply into the file system perhaps 5 levels down would be a good time to add a folder from that level to the dock ....or use the finder.

[gorgonzola]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
I am glad to be a part of this.

Ditto.

------------------
it's only after you lose everything that you're free to do anything

[gorgonzola]

Originally posted by havannas:
A rule of web design is don't have hierarchies more than 3 levels deep. If your digging that deeply into the file system perhaps 5 levels down would be a good time to add a folder from that level to the dock ....or use the finder.

Regardless, it's still an important option. What if you need something 6 levels down? You could use the Finder, but it's a nice option to be able to browse your entire drive from the Dock.

Options!! Options are critical. But I do agree with what you said.

------------------
it's only after you lose everything that you're free to do anything

Can we assume you work for Palm?

Jamie.

[itim55]

Does OS X have themes?

------------------
Kato! You have turned my apartment into a..a..Chinese nooky factory!

[JB72]

come on rm, let's have some more!

Airport? DVD? Anything?

Still the best OS X thread around...

------------------
-JB72.338x

Imagine a clever quote here.

"They have know the power of disruptive technologies and are preparing for a 1-2 punch. As I said before, OS X is 1, what is 2?"

Oh, stop that, you're killing me!

Seriously, please don'e spoil the surprise for everyone. The Sherlock changes are one thing, but please let Jobs and Apple have its day in the sun on their terms. I don't mean to sound like a scolding parent, but the rumors get out so fast, and become such common knowledge that, for example, the graphite iMac SE wasn't the big "Wow!" it could have been when introduced. Obviously, I'm curious to say the least, so i'm not exactly innocent myself. Your info on Sherlock is very welcome, as are some other tidbits. But I imagine that being privy to this info must be a great temptation, so please just consider this a reminder not to let the excitement get the best of you.

Thanks for everything here.

[gorgonzola]

Now I'm just dead.

Two months to go. It wouldn't have been that bad, but know not only do I know all the stuff that rm has posted (unbelievable stuff), but I also know that the best stuff is the stuff he *hasn't* posted!

I'm dying here! But don't post any more. March 24 should remain a big day. It won't really go down in Apple history if everyone knows about what's in OS X, now will it?

------------------
it's only after you lose everything that you're free to do anything

[hmurchison2001]

With all due respect if you guys don't want to hear anymore info on OS X them by all means skip this thread but you're crossing the line when you ask rm-rf /etc to stop posting. You both came here unforced and read the info willingly...don't prevent others who don't mind reading this info access please.

rm-rf /etc -- has there been any work done on the encryption capabilities? Is file (and maybe directory or filesystem) encryption available? Is anything of this sort vended as a Service?

On the IPv6 stuff, are there GUI means of setting the addresses and such? Or is that restricted to command-line manipulation?

Um, I never told him to stop posting. I said don't take away the big surprises.

[gorgonzola]

I actually *did* ask him to stop posting, so I do apologize.

On the other hand, rm's "Lao Tzu" post makes it rather obvious that he agrees that he *doesn't want to post any more info*.

Read it again. The answers will come when Mac OS X does.

sorry, i enjoyed the thread too! while it lasted

------------------
it's only after you lose everything that you're free to do anything

Originally posted by Oneota:
"Stupid Question Time," for rm -rf /etc (Which I encourage all of you to type into your terminal window at your earliest convenience... )

For those of us without access to a unix terminal, what does happen if you type rm -rf /etc?

[rm-rf /etc]

As I mentioned, I don't want to take anything away from Stevie Wonder. What I've told you has been common knowledge among a lot of people. I've seen a lot in the last few months, half of which I cannot reveal. I know the limits of what I can and cannot reveal quite clearly.

Given that there is quite a bit that may or may not make the final cut. The final feature set has been finalized and only those in Cupertino now know what will make it. There are a few things that clearly require a lot more development, but are close. This is why I think there will be an update coming quite close to v1.0.

I hope you realize this is indeed a first release, this is the hard part-- a good foundation to build upon. It will take another couple of years for the OS to mature. Remember the lineage of this OS X: Mac which made computers accessible for the rest of us and NeXT the OS which built the web. What Apple has managed to do is to create a new hope in a computer world that is dominated by one goliath.

The future of the OS does not depend upon Apple. It will depend upon people who will be inspired by the elegance and create wonderful new ways of communicating; people who will create beauteous art, music and movies; people who will think different.



[This message has been edited by rm-rf /etc (edited 02-04-2001).]

[mbordas]

Originally posted by What happens?:
For those of us without access to a unix terminal, what does happen if you type rm -rf /etc?

rm is the delete command. -rf means "don't ask any question just delete". and /etc is directory that is part of the system. I don't think its essential to osx but it shouldn't be deleted.

although, unless your root, I don't think you can rm -rf /etc

mb

------------------
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
http://bordas.dhs.org

[naden]

To be technical ...

rm -rf

means remove .. with options: Recursive (r) .. and Force (f) which means remove all files, without prompting including directories.

It's VERY nasty if you combine it with autocomplete (pressing tab when typing).

One good reason why you DON'T log in as root all the time.

Naden.

[mbordas]

of course it be much more "interesting" if you tried:

cd /
rm -rf *

;-)

------------------
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
http://bordas.dhs.org

[gorgonzola]

actually, there's a guy over at macaddict forums who's named "rm -rf /"

very nasty!

our friend rm seems to have a knack for inspiring posts. thank you for sharing what you could, and for having the wisdom for withholding what you couldn't.



------------------
it's only after you lose everything that you're free to do anything

[JB72]

Well the info was good while it lasted.

R.I.P. a great Mac thread.

Jan 1 2001 - Jan 4 2001.

------------------
-JB72.338x

Imagine a clever quote here.

[SYN]

rm, could you run top in the terminal and tell me how many threads the system runs when idle? Has the Finder been more heavily threaded?

Great info you've got here, I knew Apple wouldn't be happy with just a modern and beautiful OS. I'm glad to be part of this too.

------------------
Soyons r�alistes, demandons l'impossible.

[Gametes]

I almost feel guilty getting my copy for 39$, OSX is thatcool. Maybe I should buy another copy so Apple can have my money, which they deserve in addition to my passion?

gametes - as I shareholder i really think you should buy them a copy, or, hey just cut them a check...

[JB72]

Originally posted by SYN:
[B]rm, could you run top in the terminal and tell me how many threads the system runs when idle?/B]

From 4K33:

Processes: 35 total, 2 running, 1 stuck, 32 sleeping... 98 threads 12:24:34
Load Avg: 0.21, 0.29, 0.25 CPU usage: 8.3% user, 11.0% sys, 80.7% idle
SharedLibs: num = 100, resident = 19.8M code, 1.49M data, 5.70M LinkEdit
MemRegions: num = 1479, resident = 39.4M + 3.90M private, 22.6M shared
PhysMem: 35.5M wired, 44.3M active, 96.3M inactive, 176M used, 336M free
VM: 506M + 44.3M 11655(0) pageins, 0(0) pageouts

PID COMMAND %CPU TIME #TH #PRTS #MREGS RPRVT RSHRD RSIZE VSIZE
284 top 7.2% 0:11.17 1 22 14 176K 224K 404K 1.31M
279 tcsh 0.0% 0:00.12 1 17 14 260K 460K 716K 5.57M
278 Terminal 9.1% 0:03.63 4 110 67 1.42M 5.40M 4.36M+ 25.0M
227 slpd 0.0% 0:00.28 4 21 19 172K 316K 484K 2.93M
224 AppleFileS 0.0% 0:07.72 13 116 50 976K 1.20M 2.22M 9.60M
219 Dock 0.0% 0:10.95 3 151 160 9.70M 4.86M 10.1M 48.1M
218 Finder 0.0% 1:26.97 3 105 323 16.0M 11.1M 16.0M 59.8M
217 pbs 0.0% 0:02.37 3 136 103 692K 1.14M 1.96M 15.5M
214 loginwindo 0.0% 0:04.49 4 106 91 2.48M 5.12M 5.12M 26.5M
209 cron 0.0% 0:00.15 1 10 13 56K 220K 116K 1.50M
204 SecuritySe 0.0% 0:00.45 2 20 27 536K 1004K 1.48M 4.65M
191 automount 0.0% 0:00.02 2 12 18 220K 284K 320K 2.21M
187 DirectoryS 0.0% 0:00.73 3 61 49 780K 832K 1.56M 4.32M
178 nfsiod 0.0% 0:00.00 1 10 12 8K 212K 52K 1.22M
177 nfsiod 0.0% 0:00.00 1 10 12 8K 212K 52K 1.22M



------------------
-JB72.338x

Imagine a clever quote here.

[Boondoggle]

I get a woody just thinking about it...

Originally posted by Boondoggle:
I get a woody just thinking about it...

Dude...get yourself a significant other! Fast!

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by rm-rf /etc:
Remember the lineage of this OS X: Mac which made computers accessible for the rest of us and NeXT the OS which built the web. What Apple has managed to do is to create a new hope in a computer world that is dominated by one goliath.

Episode I: The Awakening
Episode II: The Dawn of an Era [NeXT and the internet]
Episode III: The Empire Strikes Back [...]
Episode X: A New Hope



Nice post.

[rm-rf /etc]

All right, I'm back for a bit.

We've been playing this new build of Quake III at work. Got it from Appleites. Anyways, Wintel users, be very very afraid. The game springs to life, apparently its got some Altivec optimizations... but clearly the build needs work.

Talking about Altivec, the new network stack is being optimized for it. IPv6 is in, but I'm not sure it is of release quality... but of course, they'll probably release it to the .edus with the new build of Darwin. There's a lot of subtle stuff that is now taking advantage of the VE. Network access, quicktime, encryption have all been rewritten. Voice login is now back. Keychain works like a charm with the Finder. The help system is beginning to take life. Very cool... Apple is designing the system with the first time user in mind, Reminds me of the original Mac... There's a lot of support for iTools, OS X tries to access a lot of unknown pages. iTools maybe in for a complete new overhaul.

The reason the builds I've seen are at 2GB is because of a lot of third party demo stuff they've thrown in there. Expect OS X to ship on 2 CDs ;-) And expect John Carmack to be at the party pimping OS X ;-)

[JB72]

Ha! rm's bacl. I love it.



------------------
-JB72.338x

Imagine a clever quote here.

[ThisIsTheVince]

Hi,

First, I want to thank rm-rf /etc A LOT. He restored my faith in Apple.

I just wanted to share my impressions about K29 and K33 (on a G4/400 1GB of ram, it's so cheap nowadays) . Basically K33 SUCKS while K29 is great.

Yes K29 is fast, I mean usable, IE performances is very good even in window rezizing with text (but still some flickering). Sure it has to be faster since OS X has to be very fast.

And you can believe me, I don't get overexcited, I'm very concerned about speed, and for the first time I feel it's usable.


For me K33 was : slow, very buggy, I didn't noticed any change in Sherlock. But I must say that my K33 build came without an installer (it's an Apple Restore Image, so I guess that's not a good way to test it).

One thing that annoys me A LOT, and I hope rm-rf /etc will be able to share some insights on it it that you can't resize a window whose resizing box is undert the dock. I hope Apple will find something to overcome it, it's really anoying to have to move the window up just to resize it.

I now, I can hide the dock, but frankly would steve advise me to hide this beauty ?

[ThisIsTheVince]

Just another question for rm-rf /etc :

- I LOVE POP-UP Folders, will they return ?

[ThisIsTheVince]

Audio-CDs just work in K29, you have to use the quicktime player

[ThisIsTheVince]

Omniweb �9 scrolls faster than in �, now you can say that its scrolls :-)

The more you scroll, the faster it gets. But still jerky.

The Dock SCREAMS for a sound setting widget.

Apple PUT THE Control strip bar back (any infoo rm-rf /etc ?)

Strange, the dock lost some of it's new behaviours (list of all opened windows of an app). Option clic on an app in the dock allows you to force quit the app.

[NeoMac]

Originally posted by Gametes:
I almost feel guilty getting my copy for 39$, OSX is thatcool. Maybe I should buy another copy so Apple can have my money, which they deserve in addition to my passion?

Buying an extra copy for Apple is a nice gesture, but what you should really be doing is converting Wintel users to OS X.

Using the OS X Beta alone, I have TWO gauranteed Wintel converts.

I'm working on another Wintel friend, and he is a real die hard Wintel user. But to my astonishment, he is seriously impressed with OS X (he's a programmer) and he has this look on his face every time he uses it. I think once he sees OS X GM he will be compelled enough to switch, but he's a tough nut to crack. If I convert him it will be a near miracle onto itself.

Convert them to OS X, and Apple will be much more grateful, and so will the convert.

Go forth and multiply!

[Bollaroid II]

thanx rm, from what you are saying it looks like apple has seen the light and embraced an "internet-integrated" philosophy rather than an "internet-centered" philosophy, i.e. killer apps will come from fully flegded, powerful applications that have hooks to the internet to extend their capabilities.

this is in contrast to what many others are saying, incl./esp. m$#-xp, that you have to get onto the internet (or at least be connected to it) to be fully productive. with this vision in mind, they are deliberately limiting the capabilities of their "standalone/offline" apps. in order to lure users to pay for extended online capabilities while apple is providing them as part of the package and at the same time not ignoring and limiting the capabilities of the individual user working on his/her own.

what many of these companies that are launching asp's are forgetting is that offline vs. online, standalone vs. collaboration/connected is just the same argument/debate that as those found in man other areas. to use programming an example:
- implicit vs. explicit
- compile-time vs. run-time
- direct vs. indirect, etc.

both sides have advantages and disavantages, but if one were to ask my opinion of an interet strategy, it would be application++ rather than internet++ (or intenet-xp/internet# depending where you are from).

ps: old Bhuddist philosophy says something to the tune of "in order for
one (standalone app) to be most useful/resourceful to others(networked apps), one has to address ones own issues first". apple is on the right track.

[gorgonzola]

welcome back, rm! anything else?

are you running on a g4? what speed? dual? just wondering, i have a pretty low end machine here unil TiBook rev 2 comes out...

thanks again!

------------------
it's only after you lose everything that you're free to do anything

[rm-rf /etc]

Remember OS X is a departure from a lot of prior art. Popup folders are dead so is the hierarchical apple menu and the control strip. Deal with it! Perhaps shell out for the excellent shareware apps from SigSoftware ;-)

In the coming months, Apple will persuade us away from using the Finder as the end all organizer. Applications are not complex folders in OS X anymore they are single icons... do you need Popup folders to access all your apps? Wonder whatever happened to the functionality of OS 7 labels ;-)

A place for everything and everything in its place.

Apple is removing multiple/recurring instances of functionality. Use Mail.app to organize your mail, Print center for your printers, System Panel for system settings, iTunes for music, iMovie for video clips. See a pattern? The philosophy is starkly different from OS 9 where you have to go to the Finder to handle all your files.

Will you use the Finder to organize your music or will you use iTunes?
Will you use the Finder to organize your URLs or will you use Omniweb?
Will you use the Finder to organize all your Photoshop files or will you :-)

Shun complexity, embrace simplicity.

When you have 10 files you will name them all--when you have 10,000 will you name them all?

Remember that letter to you wrote in 1992? Can you find it?
Remember that email you received about process changes for SOI? Can you find it?
Remember that website you visited 16 months ago about compiling xv? Can you find it?

Think meta information, think natural language querries, think indexing, think search by content... As the Hindus believe, answer to complex problems is in simple solutions.

When an apple tree grows wild in the garden, it is time to prune it.

Time to stop complexity creeping into our lives. Let computers really make us productivity and allow us to spend less time interacting with them and enjoy our free time. Seen the new save panel? Seen sheets? Rethink everything, throw away the crud. That is what Apple is doing Are you willing to do the same or be shackled by previously held dogma?

It is not the pot that is important, it is the water that it carries
It is not the walls of the house that are important, it is the space between them.
It is not the organizing mechanisms that are important, it is the information we seek to organize.

Accept change with an open heart.


[This message has been edited by rm-rf /etc (edited 02-05-2001).]

[This message has been edited by rm-rf /etc (edited 02-06-2001).]

[King Chung Huang]

Originally posted by rm-rf /etc:
Remember OS X is a departure from a lot of prior art. Popup folders are dead so is the hierarchical apple menu and the control strip. Deal with it! Perhaps shell out for the excellent shareware apps from SigSoftware ;-)

In the coming months, Apple will persuade us away from using the Finder as the end all organizer. Applications are not complex folders in OS X anymore they are single icons... do you need Popup folders to access all your apps? Wonder whatever happened to the functionality of OS 7 labels ;-)

Speaking of labels, any chance of seeing them reappear? I actually use them a lot. Also, does OS X show file comments typed in OS 9 yet? I use those a lot too.

"Will you use the Finder to organize all your Photoshop files or will you :-)"

Oh, you tease. You know just where to push my buttons. This is just the idea I'm looking for! But are you saying that the Finder is only for apps with the occasional other-search? Or are you saying that Jobs' casual comment about one day having several Finders or no Finder at all points to Apple's idea of eventually losing the catch-all finder for these specific ones?

Bollaroid II, Jobs mentioned at the analyst meeting that he hates the idea of having apps run through a web browser. He went to pains to point out that internet [does not equal] browser, and that apps could be internet connected or "integrated" in a sense without being web-based or with a broswer interface. I think that's Apple's strategy.

This all points to NeXT ideas about apps and services. Rather than create uber-apps and an uber-OS, they created smaller apps and pieces of an OS that could all do one job well on their own and communicate among one another well. To me, this is in stark contrast to Microsoft who seek to put everything in one place and make this one "experience" which is to say a browser tries to do everything (and being master of nothing in particular). Services are a perfect example, and this old Stepwise article says what I'm trying to say much more eloquently.

In short, OS X, more than the sum of its parts.

[This message has been edited by Joey (edited 02-05-2001).]

[havannas]

With all this talk of photoshop, and the lack of interest in my thread about this from earlier in the day.... i think i'll resubmit my thoughts here where they'll have a larger audience....

---------------------------------------------------

Anyone else ever had this situation(I would have never done this except for the client)? A client needed a high res psd file for a trade show panel/banner. Why they wanted a psd I have no idea(I think that was what the service bureau wanted).... I would have gladly done the comp in Quark saving so much hassle. So anyway I'm stuck with a multilayer 500MB+ psd file.... this thing is giant it takes about 2 or 3 minutes to open or save. The client is having us do stupid little changes like text copy and position(the bulk of the file size being one background image which was not being changed). So I move a tiny piece of text 2 pixels and I have to save the whole file again, all 500 MB of it.

Now what if Adobe took a more AfterEffects approach to Photoshop files. Just have a project file and keep all the resources in a seperate folder. This would be cool. When working with resources one could even use instances of it rather than the 'real' bmp/resource. You could have a mask for each instance of a resource. A resource could apear in several places in a comp at different sizes and transforms. The when saving only the effected layers and the project file would be saved. In my example from above that would mean only saving the project file and the texts new copy/position.... a lot less data that 500MB. The project file and all resources could be contained within a bundle similar to applications... appearing as one file to the system. The big question is cross-platform moveability? I wonder, maybe .pdf will evolve it a bundle like object... that might work. I know the new photoshop can save its files as multilayer pdfs and later open them preserving layers..... If these layers could be saved independently we'd be half way there.

Any thoughts on this? Maybe I'll make a mock up of the file structure.

---------------------------------------------------

here's the original thread if you'd like to comment there instead of here :
http://forums.macnn.com/cgi-bin/Forum3/HTML/002615.html

I think it's a good idea, havanas, but I'll comment more later -- say tomorrow.

[Geobunny]

Right on rm, you hit the nail right on the head there. It is time for change, and I'm ready to embrace it. You made it so clear and simple. Well done.

I'll see you all on the other side (of 24/3).

------------------
Shh! Be vewy, vewy qwiewet! I'm hunting wuntime ewwors

[Mr Scruff]

Originally posted by Geobunny:
Right on rm, you hit the nail right on the head there. It is time for change, and I'm ready to embrace it. You made it so clear and simple. Well done.

I'll see you all on the other side (of 24/3).

I agree. What a cheerful thread. Makes a change from the usual window border flame wars.

[rjpcmc]

Originally posted by ThisIsTheVince:
One thing that annoys me A LOT, and I hope rm-rf /etc will be able to share some insights on it it that you can't resize a window whose resizing box is undert the dock. I hope Apple will find something to overcome it, it's really anoying to have to move the window up just to resize it.

See the thread on Dock Auto Float. It would fix this problem!

Part of the problem with window resizing in the public beta is that most apps don't accomodate the Dock when you hit the green widget. OmniWeb does accomodate the Dock automatically when resizing, and it shouldn't be a great pain AFAIK for other Cocoa apps to do it. Carbon apps I would think will catch up to this behavior as well. I know this isn't what you're talking about, but it at least will be a little better than in public beta.

[gorgonzola]

Originally posted by rjpcmc:
See the thread on Dock Auto Float. It would fix this problem!

Actually, as I understood Dock Auto Float, it wouldn't. It would, however, enable you to view the file in its entirety. The space of the Dock is still active, and you can't mouse down there without the Dock coming up. This is still the same resize window problem -- the Dock will pop to the top layer in the z buffer as soon as you mouse down there.

However, if you're reading a text file, then at least you could finish the bottom part of it. Hopefully Apple has done something about this. They should build Dock-sense into Carbon and Cocoa from the start. No app should do this retarded nonsense, and full screen apps should auto-hide the Dock by default, and quitting the app would reset the earlier behavior (depending on what you set). Bryce 4, for example, leaves it up. This is fine since it doesn't use the space. But Quake 3 would absolutely be nuts with it on.

I guess they're working on it. I know the Apple guys aren't sleeping right now, and won't be in five hours, nor in ten, nor in twenty. I'll cut them some slack and not whine about this as is often the temptation.

------------------
it's only after you lose everything that you're free to do anything

[Bollaroid II]

Originally posted by Joey:

This all points to NeXT ideas about apps and services. Rather than create uber-apps and an uber-OS, they created smaller apps and pieces of an OS that could all do one job well on their own and communicate among one another well. To me, this is in stark contrast to Microsoft who seek to put everything in one place and make this one "experience" which is to say a browser tries to do everything (and being master of nothing in particular). Services are a perfect example, and this old Stepwise article says what I'm trying to say much more eloquently.

In short, OS X, more than the sum of its parts.

[This message has been edited by Joey (edited 02-05-2001).][/B]

this is similar to an idea i had the first time i read about jini. because sun is (unfortunately) so focussed on networking everything, they forgot something that was staring bthem right in the eye. why not make a platform/os that works the exact same way that jini works i.e when an app is installed it registers its services with the os so that any other app that is running on the system looks up the services that are available(not necessarily running) and selects whatever services it needs and uses them. voila! no redundancy.

this would enable a security model based on jini groups, just to give one example. the concept is similar to unix groups so i have no doubt that the expert engineers at apple would have any trouble "porting" the concept to os services. to give a highly simplified example of jini for some of us... you have a jini-concious pda and you walk into the boardroom at your workplace that has a jini-concious printer and a registry service running. instantly each will recognise each other but i will not be able to use the print service because print service is available only to those employees in the "corporate" group. unfortunately, me being the janitor does not help the situation.

i know a similar type of security should be available to files on X since it is part *nix, but i think it is a primitive (and hopefully, early ) form compared to what could be done with a jini-like implementation at a service level. this would make security on x more than enterprise-ready. and it would be native - not an add-on app for that matter.

taking my brainstorm further, in the long run (2 or 3 major releases down the road, i.e. OS X 4.0) when programming based on ai/evolutionary/genetic methods has really taken off, services could either evolve to continuously operate optimally, etc. for example, i install an app that has a print service when i already have one on my computer. over several days or so, under the supervision of the os, these two services will undergo some type of "survival of the fittest test to determine which is best". note that these will be background/secluded processes that will be running that will not interfere with normal operations of the computer. in the mean time, the previously existing service will continue to function as the default print service. the one that is determined to be less efficient/effective will be stored in backup/compressed formatto prevent redundancy, and the "winner" set as the new default.

but the true winner in this case will be the user because the computer will be doing one of the things it was created for, to automate basic tasks so humans can focus on much more important
issues. this in stark contrast to m$ 10 commandments, one of which reads "computers are made to be managed and maintained by humans".

i think this (adaptive/evolutionary services) is one of the things that answers those who are questioning apples attemt to bring a unix platform to the masses. to achieve true user-friendliness (gui and functionality), true system and personal security, true RAD-capable environment, etc., you have to have a highly capable and solid foundation. it can't be done by rewriting DOS or something stupid like that. these people make the mistake of confusing the part of the computer that user will communicate - the ui - and the plumbing that makes it possible. they think the "high intelligence" of unix will automatically result in the ui being similarly complex. this is just as stupid as saying that putting a ferrari engine in a beetle will make the steering wheel more difficult to use and the speedometer more difficult to read. furthermore, some of the most simple people i know just happen to be the most intelligent and i'm sure there is a direct link between their high iq and simplicity.

btw, rm, you did not say for sure whether JINI is going to be incuded in the final release. all you had on jini was "jini?". even if it is gonna make it, i second what you said about taking away the element of surprise from mr. stevie "jobs" wonder.

more to come...

[tyris]

I must have missed something... What's Jini? The whole services thing does sound cool, but you keep comparing it with "jini" so I'm not sure if it's even cooler than what I'm thinking of right now, or not.

[The DJ]

rm -rf /etc said :

Expect OSX to ship on two CD's"

After all those years, apple is now going to charge $129 instead of the usual $99. I guess this partly explains that. ;-)
I do not mind at all. I would pay $150 for this, if what rm tells is true.

DJ


BTW. rm -rf /etc, i have 2 questions.
1: does the scroll wheel work in Carbon yet?
2: I heard they were in the L build series by now, is that true, or are they still in K(50 by now i guess)?

[apple emp]

well you get 2 OS's for $129

OS 9.1

and

OSX

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not speaking for my employer, these views are mine alone