[Dakar the Fourth]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

I assume you own a Zune, right ?

it's got sooo many feature when compared to the 'inferior' mass-market ipod, eh ? thats soo cool

This could quite possibly be the dumbest argument a mac user could make.

[Luca Rescigno]

I don't think hardcore gamers are "dwindling in numbers" as you put it, Hawkeye. The same way that PC gaming isn't really dying. As Mac users, you should know that market share isn't everything, right?

Well, basically what's happening is that the entire gaming industry is growing rapidly, and "hardcore" PC/360/PS3 games aren't growing as fast as the rest of the industry. But that doesn't mean for a minute that they're "dying." They're just not in the same position that they used to be. Seriously, look at GTA IV and tell me that hardcore gaming is on the decline. It made money faster than any blockbuster movie hit! How could any game publisher look at that and conclude that the best course of action is to get out of making games that appeal to people over the age of 12? Sure, not every big game is going to be a big hit like GTA IV, but other companies will keep trying.

My main problem with your posts, Hawkeye, is that you seem to maintain that for one niche to win, the other must lose. I just don't understand your reasoning. Clearly there are markets for all different types of games, same with movies. There are PG-rated movies that are hugely popular (pretty much anything by Pixar), but the rise in popularity of kiddie movies like that doesn't mean that R-rated movies are a lost cause.

I don't have a problem with the Wii or casual games, as long as they don't interfere with my ability to get games that are actually fun for me. There are enough people out there like me for the adult gaming market to still be commercially viable, even if it's not longer the majority.

Another point is that if you look at PC gaming, a huge portion of the money is going to either World Of Warcraft or The Sims, both games that I have zero interest in. But there are still plenty of other games for PCs that I do enjoy.

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by Dakar the Fourth 

This could quite possibly be the dumbest argument a mac user could make.

D'oh

But, it might just be me, but consumer electronics with shorter life-cycles fall into a different category altogether and can't really be compared to Operating Systems with relatively really long life-spans, and not to mention the different 'purpose' of each device.

If you do want to pursue the argument....
-Since MacOSX and intel-based-Macs...the Mac market share is on the rise (sorta like that little console that could, compared to its predecessors).
-The Mac is a lot more profitable than it's competitors...like the Wii.
-the Mac innovates in usability and human-computer-interfaces(my reason for being a Mac user) and MacOSX just took it a lot further, and the Wii does the same.

They share the same philosophies at their core..... they both had their low points due to bad business decisions, and now.... due to innovation and sensible leadership, they are both way ahead of the competition.

Cheers

[Dakar the Fourth]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

due to innovation and sensible leadership, they are both way ahead of the competition.

I think that's a gross overstatement, unless you're referring exclusively to profitability and marketshare.

It also bears noting that Nintendo hasn't so much gotten ahead of the competition as much as they've side-stepped it.

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by Dakar the Fourth 

I think that's a gross overstatement, unless you're referring exclusively to profitability and marketshare.

It also bears noting that Nintendo hasn't so much gotten ahead of the competition as much as they've side-stepped it.

Explain ?

Do you mean its something like moving from command-based operating systems to more main-stream-GUI based systems ?
(And yes i do think the Wii remote is to core controllers, what the GUI was to commad-line based OSs)

As far as innovation.The Wiimote is by far the biggest innovation this gen imo.

As far as leadership...Jobs returned to Apple and Iwata took the reins of Nintendo, and shortly after both the company's fortunes(focus, profitability, marketshare, R&D,etc..) changed for the better.

[Dakar the Fourth]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

Explain ?

Do you mean its something like moving from command-based operating systems to more main-stream-GUI based systems ?
(And yes i do think the Wii remote is to core controllers, what the GUI was to commad-line based OSs)

As far as innovation.The Wiimote is by far the biggest innovation this gen imo.

I'd compare the Wiimote to a touchscreen. Simple to understand, easy to use, but I sure as hell wouldn't want to use it for any in depth or complex tasks.

If you could explain to me how you'd play a Halo or GTA on a Wii-mote, I'm all ears.

Edit: I'd go so far as to say the Wiimote is the only 'innovation' this generation.

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by Dakar the Fourth 

I'd compare the Wiimote to a touchscreen. Simple to understand, easy to use, but I sure as hell wouldn't want to use it for any in depth or complex tasks.

If you could explain to me how you'd play a Halo or GTA on a Wii-mote, I'm all ears.

Well i'd compare the Wiimote and touchscreens to the mouse. but the Wiimote has other another dimension added to it (and im not taking just the third dimension(depth), but orientation(angles) as well, which no other mainstream device was capable of when it came out).

Here's my guess at how those games would control:
-Halo...first person shooter. Metroid Prime 3 first person shooter. witht the nunchuck the Wii has like one less button than the 360 controller right ?
-GTAIV(havent played any from this series). third person 'shooter' ? have a look at scarface, godfather and RE4 on the Wii....as for the driving, you could pull it off with either the wiimote-tilt or analog stick.

I wouldnt underestimate the immersion you get from pointing and shooting using the wiimote as opposed to rotating views and aims using 2 analog sticks. it's night and day (at least to me).

PS>>Thanks for the civilized discussion

[Dakar the Fourth]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

Here's my guess at how those games would control:
-Halo...first person shooter. Metroid Prime 3 first person shooter. witht the nunchuck the Wii has like one less button than the 360 controller right ?

I have no idea, but ergonomics are huge here. You are counting L3 and R3 as buttons too, right?
Reliability is important too. If the controller misinterprets a motion, that's the difference between life and death, as well as infuriating.

It's noteworthy that standard controllers are looked upon as limiting for FPSs in comparison to the keyboard/mouse combo.

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

-GTAIV(havent played any from this series). third person 'shooter' ? have a look at scarface, godfather and RE4 on the Wii....as for the driving, you could pull it off with either the wiimote-tilt or analog stick.

You also have to have the ability of aiming/shooting while driving and access to a cellphone and the ability to change radio stations.

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

PS>>Thanks for the civilized discussion

Always, you eunuch jelly thou.

[Luca Rescigno]

One major problem with the Wiimote in terms of driving games is the lack of analog controls. You get one, and one only (the thumbstick on the Nunchuck). The Xbox 360 and PS3, though, have four—two analog sticks and two analog triggers. Being able to use partial braking or partial acceleration is very important for the more realistic driving games.

Wiimote tilt is okay, but it's really only well suited to simple racing games like Mario Kart. I would not want to use that for anything much more complex than that.

Anyway, overall the Wii controller is certainly innovative but I don't think it's really any better than traditional controllers. The fact that a large number of Wii games play much better with the Classic or GameCube controller says something about its utility. Maybe good for some party games, but for traditional games, the other controllers are better. Then again, if you prefer traditional games, you should get a PS3 or a 360 anyway.

The lack of buttons is a good and a bad thing. I can see a lot of people being confused by the 360's controller. It has 12 buttons that can perform game functions—the four face buttons, two triggers, two shoulder buttons, the start and back buttons, and the L3 and R3 (click the analog sticks) buttons. You also have the analog stick movement itself, a D-pad (4- or 8-directional? I don't know), and the home button. The PS3 is basically the same. The Wii, on the other hand, has only four buttons, one analog control, and a D-pad when used in its normal "Wiimote + Nunchuck" configuration. There are four more available that aren't easy to reach and are used by different control schemes. So really, you are going to see less complex games on the Wii, and you couldn't create a game like Halo on it. That's good for casual gamers but bad for hardcore ones.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

I got Mario Cart Wii and for the first couple days I used the Wii Wheel that came with it and thought it was alright.

Afterwards i tried using the nun-chuck and it is worlds more accurate and better than using the Whiil.

So again, the "revolutionary" wii controller has not made it better or more accurate just frustratingly different.

the only time I feel the Wiimote is actually better is with FPS. Sad part is there is only 2 worth buying as Nintendo doesn't really care for FPS's.

[Dakar the Fourth]

10 Best (and Worst) Sports Games Innovations

[sek929]

Played Wii Mario Kart last night....

So basically the same as the N64 game with different controls and a few new weapons?

Mega-yawn, I'd rather Kart-it-up on the N64. I continue to be wholly unimpressed with anything Wii.

[angelmb]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Afterwards i tried using the nun-chuck and it is worlds more accurate and better than using the Whiil.

So again, the "revolutionary" wii controller has not made it better or more accurate just frustratingly different.

Well, you post your experience, and so do I. My experience with the Wii Wheel is truly the opposite, not only with Mario Kart but also and noticeably, with Speed Racer, which given the four wheel drive nature of the cars makes the ability to actually steer it a huge gain versus the Wiimote controller, -a small hit by an opponent and you are spinning-. Give it a try if you can rent it, the lack of an online mode would suggest me it wouldn't suit you.

[davidg14]

I just ordered a xb360.
online > single player.

[Hawkeye_a]

Just picked up my second, third-party Wii titles....



I'm a huge adventure-game fan(mostly single player games), and this game seems to have a lot charm and critical acclaim. Pity it wasn't marketed well enough to make it a success. Impressions to follow once i receive it.

Cheers

[angelmb]

To state positively and with certainty, ZACK&WIKI is one of the best if not the best third party title available for the Wii. You won't be disappointed.

One could think than this generation the hardware (Wii) is over the software (games) the star of the show -so to speak-, then you find games like Z&W and one has to conclude that both, hardware & software are truly stellar.

[paul w]

Wii is a brilliant concept and everything. But they're too scarce for me to take them seriously - I'd have bought one had it ever have been in stock when I was in a game store. Good for Nintendo for making nice profits but they've kind of lost me as a loyal fan.

Because rather then try and find a wii somewhere or pay more, I bought a ps3 and am happy watching br movies and playing some amazing games.

[Luca Rescigno]

I've heard that Wiis are getting easier to find now. Lots of reports of people seeing them on store shelves, even at times other than Sunday morning.

Nintendo lost me as a customer with the Wii because they basically slapped gamers in the face and said, "F*** you, we don't need you, we're only going to make casual games for old people and kids because that's where the money's at." It's not that the Wii has a lot of casual or "cutesy" games, it's that it doesn't have many decent serious games, for actual gamers. The GameCube had games like that - there is no reason the Wii can't. But developers won't do it, and neither will Nintendo, so screw them. Let them take a swim in the pool full of money, I'm going somewhere where I can have fun.

[wallinbl]

I liked Zack & Wiki. It was fun. Some of the puzzles were a bit annoying, but that's true of any puzzle game, really.

I'm now playing Boom Blox and liking it so far. I'm not big on the grab tool, as I just don't have enough control.

[paul w]

Originally Posted by Luca Rescigno 

I've heard that Wiis are getting easier to find now. Lots of reports of people seeing them on store shelves, even at times other than Sunday morning.

Nintendo lost me as a customer with the Wii because they basically slapped gamers in the face and said, "F*** you, we don't need you, we're only going to make casual games for old people and kids because that's where the money's at." It's not that the Wii has a lot of casual or "cutesy" games, it's that it doesn't have many decent serious games, for actual gamers. The GameCube had games like that - there is no reason the Wii can't. But developers won't do it, and neither will Nintendo, so screw them. Let them take a swim in the pool full of money, I'm going somewhere where I can have fun.

Whatever, the games are fun - especially for my friends who aren't too into games. Wii seems to have the biggest party, multiplayer appeal. My fiancee has next to no interest in any of my "serious" ps3 games, and as a result, I play less. Maybe that's not a bad thing after all...

I tell you I've been in stores all over since the beginning and never seen em in stock. When they do they sell out almost immediately, apparently. I'm not going to get obsessed about it, so I shrug and that's that.

Big whatever. I'm not buying a wii for more than the list price.

[Luca Rescigno]

Originally Posted by paul w 

Whatever, the games are fun - especially for my friends who aren't too into games. Wii seems to have the biggest party, multiplayer appeal. My fiancee has next to no interest in any of my "serious" ps3 games, and as a result, I play less. Maybe that's not a bad thing after all...

Yeah, I guess that's sort of the point I was making. Fun for non-gamers. Not much fun for people who already play video games though.

Originally Posted by paul w 

I tell you I've been in stores all over since the beginning and never seen em in stock. When they do they sell out almost immediately, apparently. I'm not going to get obsessed about it, so I shrug and that's that.

Big whatever. I'm not buying a wii for more than the list price.

Depends on how much effort you're going to put into finding one. I don't know how much you want one. But there are places where you can check the Sunday circular ads early to see which stores are going to be getting Wiis in stock on Sunday mornings. Usually, you can get either Best Buy, Circuit City, Target, or Gamestop. One of those four should have them on Sunday morning. You might not even need to camp out to get one, though it would increase your chances.

[paul w]

Originally Posted by Luca Rescigno 

Depends on how much effort you're going to put into finding one. I don't know how much you want one. But there are places where you can check the Sunday circular ads early to see which stores are going to be getting Wiis in stock on Sunday mornings. Usually, you can get either Best Buy, Circuit City, Target, or Gamestop. One of those four should have them on Sunday morning. You might not even need to camp out to get one, though it would increase your chances.

Yeah, you lost me there. Ironic since the wii is targeted to the laid back, broader audience like me, yet you have to resemble a gaming addict to score one (or just pay a premium).

Big meh. Sundays are for sleeping in, reading the paper and having brunch.

[wallinbl]

Originally Posted by Luca Rescigno 

Yeah, I guess that's sort of the point I was making. Fun for non-gamers. Not much fun for people who already play video games though.

Been gaming for 24 years. I find the Wii fun. Frankly, I'm finding the other stuff more boring. I've played sports games for years. Sure, they've changed since Tecmo Bowl or Double Dribble. I've played FPS games for years. They've changed since Wolf 3d or Doom, but not tremendously.

Honestly, the change is nice. I think gaming has stagnated for a while.

[Hawkeye_a]

With E3 just around the corner, the rumors are all over the place(im sure you've heard them)... so before the cloners make anything official, i thought i'd reiterate the innovations of the Wiimte that set it apart from all the old fashioned console controllers:
-single handed controller
-motion sensors
-direct pointing
-exandibility via the port
-sound feedback via the speaker

-Wii Fit, almost a platform by itself

Software:
-Mii's, not just the ability to create a caricature of yourself and others on the same system, but the ability to trade, and use them in any games/software that supoport them.

The above mark the first time they have been implemented and shipped for a home console that primarily hooks upto a television. While the cloners might use different implementations(to reduce the liability of being sued), i think the idea....the 'look and feel' is what they will try and copy the most. Think Windows copying the Mac, and inverting the mouse pointer colors.

I just stumbled upon this cool piece of software for OSX that lets you use the Wiimote as a 'controller' in OSX (kinda like that Apple patent that was recently filed). Check it out here...
DarwiinRemote 0.7 - MacUpdate

Cheers

[jokell82]

The Wii may have sold more consoles, but it's played less than the 360 is:
Nielsen: Wii usage is second to Xbox 360 - Joystiq

Sounds about right to me.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

So much for 3rd party titles on Wii

Boom Blox a bust at retail, sells only 60k units - Joystiq

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by wallinbl 

Been gaming for 24 years. I find the Wii fun. Frankly, I'm finding the other stuff more boring. […] I've played FPS games for years. They've changed since Wolf 3d or Doom, but not tremendously.

Honestly, the change is nice. I think gaming has stagnated for a while.

Ditto.

[Dakar the Fourth]

Rumor: Microsoft Copying Mii, Xbox E3 Plans Leaked | Game | Life from Wired.com

Is Microsoft going to copy Nintendo's Mii idea?

Moreover: Did a whole flood of information about the Xbox 360's lineup of announcements for E3 just flood out onto the Internets?

Some sleuths at NeoGAF have dug up a marketing presentation that purports to spill the details on all manner of different major announcements, from Xbox 360 "Avatars" (right) to new details on Tony Hawk and Guitar Hero World Tour.

And there could even be a video of Silicon Knights' game for Sega, if all this is true. Oh, it's just a maelstrom of intriguing tidbits today. Below, I'll run down the major maybe-megatons. Just take them all with a grain of salt.

•Microsoft will roll out "Avatars", customizable characters that you create and who represent you when you're online with Xbox Live.

•The next Tony Hawk game comes with a motion-sensitive stand-on skateboard controller that sounds a lot like the Wii Fit board.

•The big innovation for Guitar Hero World Tour's guitar controller is a touch-sensitive fretboard that lets you slide up and down for analog solos during songs.

•Forza 3 for Xbox 360 is so gigantic -- over 400 cars and 100 tracks -- that it will be sold as a two-disc game.

•There's a video for a game called Crucible, which some are speculating is Silicon Knights' game for Sega, which is rumored to be titled The Crucible: The Evil Within.

•Spider-Man vs. Marvel Zombies is headed to 360, PS3, and Wii.

•The next Call of Duty game is subtitled World at War, has no number attached.

•Disney is bringing out a 360, PS3, and Wii game called Ultimate Band, which will be compatible with Rock Band instruments or played with normal controllers and Wiimote motion sensing. There's video of this, too.

[jokell82]

To be fair, the "Mii" idea isn't anything new. It's just the first time it was on a console at the system level. It's obvious that the other companies will follow suit. Sony will have it in Home as well (it may not be as cartoony as the Miis or the Microsoft Avatars, but it will be an avatar nonetheless).

[Dakar the Fourth]

I'm more interested in the Forza 3 revelation. I had a feeling MS might shy away from showing the limitations of the DVD capacity. God knows I was merciless when I found out that Resident Evil was on two disks for the GC (But that was more because they decided to use that lame proprietary format).

[Luca Rescigno]

I just hope Forza 3 makes some real changes to the game. Forza 2 was little more than a graphical refresh of the first game (and a minor one at that). Still an excellent game, and helped by the fact that the first one was so innovative, but if they're making a sequel it needs so break a lot of new ground.

[Dakar the Fourth]

I've never played it's predecessors, but I was planning on getting this one. I'm curious what improvements you'd like to see.

[sek929]

Originally Posted by Luca Rescigno 

I just hope Forza 3 makes some real changes to the game. Forza 2 was little more than a graphical refresh of the first game (and a minor one at that). Still an excellent game, and helped by the fact that the first one was so innovative, but if they're making a sequel it needs so break a lot of new ground.

I completely disagree!

Forza 1 had very odd physics, the cars never felt grounded or heavy almost like you were driving on ice or oily roads, the braking lacked any tactile feel, and the damage system was lame. You also only had the option of full driving line or nothing.

Forza 2 brought their physics engine to the level of GT4, while having much better frame rate and graphics. You could select a braking only line. The damage system is incredibly well done. Gone are the days of skimming a wall at full speed and carrying on like nothing happened, now you dig into the wall and spin around violently. The AI is also much improved, especially when you start driving in the racing classes (R4, R3, R2, R1) the 'enemy' cars are almost as aggressive as you can drive. After beating F2 for the fourth time I can safely say it's a nose ahead of GT4...since GT4 has no damage system and you can ride walls at full speed.

I passed right over F1 because at the time GT4 was superior in every way. Forza 2 sucked me right in, it was leaps and bounds ahead of F1, mostly due to the physics. I'm to cheap to buy a PS3 for GT5 (which looks retardedly amazing) so I hope F3 can keep up with with the Polyphonic team and Sony.

[Luca Rescigno]

You're right, the physics (probably the most important part of the game) got a lot better in 2. It's the other stuff that stayed the same.

I think more than anything, the series needs more variety of tracks. Counting up how many different track layouts there are (including reverse versions), there are only about two dozen in each game. There are going to be lots of cars - 400 is plenty - so I'm hoping they'll have more tracks as well.

A few modern conventions would be nice as well like an in-car camera with functional instrument panel. Project Gotham and Grid do this really well. The graphics could also use a bit of an overhaul. Right now they look like smoother, higher resolution versions of the original Xbox game. I don't think the game has HDR lighting.

More shapes and flexibility with painting cars would be nice. They made some improvements there in 2 so I expect more improvements in 3. They also need to fix the car sorting and filtering feature. They actually made it a whole lot worse in the sequel.

[sek929]

Agreed on all points. I hate how racing games focus on giving you more cars than you can ever care to drive yet skimp out on the tracks. I'd rather have it the other way around. Once you get to the end of the game you're like "Oh jesus, THIS friggin' track again...but luckily I can drive one of my 150 cars I've never touched."

I always rock the in-car view, but I found the hoods of more than a few cars in F2 to be very distracting in the way they reflected their surroundings. Instead I opt for the Bumper Cam™ which isn't all that realistic.

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

Well Harmonix has stated that it's Nintendo's fault there's no online play or DLC, and that the console wasn't powerful enough to handle some of the features of the other systems.

(And all the others who "claim" that it's Nintendo's fault there is no DLC on the Wii (and not the lazy-third-rate developers-of-'rock band''s fault )

Guitar Hero: World Tour Wii to have downloadable tracks

<sarcasm>
I wonder if they are going to sell the GH:WT(Wii) with:
1. A broadband juicer-upper, (cause 802.11b just wont cut it anymore)
2. Some awesome HDD storage solution , cause obviously you need the vast amount of storage that only a HDD can provide for DLC.
3. A 100-page manual to explain to the naive Wii users how to buy and use SD cards in the Wii.

Either way, its great to see a third party developer work around the impossible limitations Nintendo has put on the platform, to finally offer the Wii's uninformed audience DLC. In fact im sure the awesome developers who made RockBandWii gave it their all and since even they couldnt pull it off, it's obvious that the Wii is just way too complicated and tedious to develop for.
</end sarcasm>

Guitar Hero 3(Wii) has online play, but no DLC, has sold 2.83 million.
Rock Band(PS3+XB360) with online and DLC, to date has sold 2.24 million(1.59+0.65).
(Source: VGChartz.com )

RockBand(Wii) is a lazy-dirty-port of a last generation game that was developed for the PS2. it has no DLC or online play or upgraded features/specs over the PS2 build it was ported from, it was delivered much later to the Wii console than the other platforms it had appeared on.

This is the first time a game (Guitar Hero : World Tour) will actually have all the same features across all current gen consoles (Wii, PS3 and XB360).

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

Guitar Hero 3(Wii) has online play, but no DLC, has sold 2.83 million.
Rock Band(PS3+XB360) with online and DLC, to date has sold 2.24 million(1.59+0.65).
(Source: VGChartz.com | Video Games, Charts, News, Forums, Reviews, Wii, PS3, Xbox360, DS, PSP )

Why would you make this comparison? Right now the Wii version of Guitar Hero 3 is currently 3rd out of 4 consoles the game is available for. Comparing it to Rock Band is pointless, since the guitar hero name alone sells most of those games.

[Dakar the Fourth]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

Why would you make this comparison?

I think we know why.

[sek929]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

2. Some awesome HDD storage solution , cause obviously you need the vast amount of storage that only a HDD can provide for DLC.
3. A 100-page manual to explain to the naive Wii users how to buy and use SD cards in the Wii.

I find it hilarious your devotion to sticking up for memory cards, which were made by the lord Satan himself and done away with thanks to the almighty original xbox. Even most N64 games didn't need memory cards.

They could have easily thrown in a iPod-sized 5GB drive in the Wii, but luckily Nintendo was smart enough to know fanbois would eat anything up that they decided to make so they stuck with a tried-and-true money maker for consoles.....Memory Cards! Sweet! It's like 1997 all over again!

Other than that I have nothing to add to your flagrant beating-the-dead-horse style of trying to convince everyone (and maybe yourself?) that the Wii is superior. Maybe it is, I don't care, at this point people own what they want. For the amount of animosity classically between PS and xbox owners it's funny to see little to no zealotry by either side.

[Luca Rescigno]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

<sarcasm>
I wonder if they are going to sell the GH:WT(Wii) with:
1. A broadband juicer-upper, (cause 802.11b just wont cut it anymore)

You can already get a USB-ethernet adapter. But since you're being sarcastic I'm assuming you're mocking those who think 802.11b isn't adequate. I don't think anyone is saying it is, especially since you're not able to do voice communication with the Wii anyway.

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

2. Some awesome HDD storage solution , cause obviously you need the vast amount of storage that only a HDD can provide for DLC.

DLC songs take up like 10-20 MB each, I think (I've also heard 30 MB but that seems a bit high). The Wii's internal memory is enough to handle a decent amount of DLC, but not if you're also a major WiiWare/Virtual Console user as well.

The fact is, even Nintendo themselves have admitted that the Wii's internal storage is too limited for some people. That's a pretty huge admission since normally Nintendo won't give their fans the time of day, especially niche groups of their fans (i.e. the ones who are in danger of running out of space). You don't have to defend their storage situation. They're not even defending it themselves.

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

3. A 100-page manual to explain to the naive Wii users how to buy and use SD cards in the Wii.

Oh come on. That's just silly. I don't even know what your point is. SD cards can be used to store some save files and software, but you can't run anything from them. That means that you have to swap data onto and off of SD cards if you want to change what's available to you. The Wii owners who wouldn't understand that are probably also not going to run out of space anytime soon.

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

Either way, its great to see a third party developer work around the impossible limitations Nintendo has put on the platform, to finally offer the Wii's uninformed audience DLC. In fact im sure the awesome developers who made RockBandWii gave it their all and since even they couldnt pull it off, it's obvious that the Wii is just way too complicated and tedious to develop for.
</end sarcasm>

I do really hate what Harmonix did with Rock Band for the Wii. They're exemplifying everything the Wii's critics say about the system. Fact is, they could have pretty easily incorporated most of the features from the 360/PS3 versions into the Wii, but they didn't because they're cheap and lazy. On the other hand, if you've actually played the two games, you'll (likely) agree with me that Rock Band is a lot better than Guitar Hero.

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

Guitar Hero 3(Wii) has online play, but no DLC, has sold 2.83 million.
Rock Band(PS3+XB360) with online and DLC, to date has sold 2.24 million(1.59+0.65).
(Source: VGChartz.com )

I'll also point out that GH3 for the 360 has sold 3.07 million units, and GH3 for the PS3 has sold 1.34 million. So the 360 is just slightly ahead of the Wii in GH3 sales and it also has a bunch of Rock Band sales that the Wii doesn't have (yet). That's not surprising, since there are about the same number of 360s out there as there are Wiis.

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

RockBand(Wii) is a lazy-dirty-port of a last generation game that was developed for the PS2. it has no DLC or online play or upgraded features/specs over the PS2 build it was ported from, it was delivered much later to the Wii console than the other platforms it had appeared on.

Amen.

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

This is the first time a game (Guitar Hero : World Tour) will actually have all the same features across all current gen consoles (Wii, PS3 and XB360).

F'in finally, huh?

However, I'm not sure what you're arguing... that developers are lazy and won't make good Wii games? Because I agree. I don't think it's Nintendo's fault, really, other than the storage thing which they are apparently working on. Obviously the Wii isn't as powerful, but I've said all along that there's no real reason the Wii can't have games with the same depth as last-gen consoles. My criticism of the Wii isn't with the console itself or Nintendo, but with third-party developers. However, I see that as a major point against getting a Wii if you're more than a casual gamer.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by Luca Rescigno 

DLC songs take up like 10-20 MB each, I think (I've also heard 30 MB but that seems a bit high). The Wii's internal memory is enough to handle a decent amount of DLC, but not if you're also a major WiiWare/Virtual Console user as well.

The fact is, even Nintendo themselves have admitted that the Wii's internal storage is too limited for some people. That's a pretty huge admission since normally Nintendo won't give their fans the time of day, especially niche groups of their fans (i.e. the ones who are in danger of running out of space). You don't have to defend their storage situation. They're not even defending it themselves.

I did like Nintendo's previous position on the issue - that Wii Ware titles were meant to be deleted and re-downloaded.

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by sek929 

I find it hilarious your devotion to sticking up for memory cards, which were made by the lord Satan himself and done away with thanks to the almighty original xbox. Even most N64 games didn't need memory cards.

They could have easily thrown in a iPod-sized 5GB drive in the Wii, but luckily Nintendo was smart enough to know fanbois would eat anything up that they decided to make so they stuck with a tried-and-true money maker for consoles.....Memory Cards! Sweet! It's like 1997 all over again!

Are you referring to the spiffy load times on the original Playstation as opposed to the faster-old-fashioned N64 ?

How are those installation times treating you ? cause we all know thats the best direction for gaming consoles to go in.

Originally Posted by sek929 

Other than that I have nothing to add to your flagrant beating-the-dead-horse style of trying to convince everyone (and maybe yourself?) that the Wii is superior.

Ummm not really, i have money in my bank account, and if i did want to i could have, just as easily purchased any of the alternative systems. And believe me, i am not trying to convince any of the fanboys like yourself of anything, i honestly couldnt be the least bit bothered. Unfortunately, due to the anti-Nintendo-fanboyism found on internet forums, a lot of FALSE information (out of pure ignorance) is posted about Nintendo, and rather than try and convince the 'narrow-minded' of the 'real deal' i want to set the record straight with facts, for people who actually look here for opinions.

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Nintendo has admitted there is a storage issue with the Wii. Specifically, users who have a lot of VC, WiiWare, etc... content having to swap content between the internal memory and the SD card.

I(and probably a vast majority of Wii owners) have probably NOT run out of space, but i do see it as an inevitable issue regarding storage, but no more severe than an XB360/PS3 with 20GB HDD running out of storage now. (The content available for download on those platforms is proportionally larger as well... demos, movies, etc).

If given the option between SD/SDHC cards over HDD, i would go with the former. Low latency(fast), no moving parts(reliable,durable, portable), easily swappable(customizable, upgradable). And seeing as how the industry(tech) in general is moving toward SSD as opposed to HDD, i think Nintendo made a good choice, but thus far has not implemented it very well (easy to fix via a firmware upgrade).

Despite the fact that im not the least bit into rhythm game, i do appreciate the unbiased effort that Activision has brought to the GH franchize and i do hope(and think) they will find enormous success on the Wii for it. As for RockBand... poor effort never won my $$$.

Irrespective of which console i appear to be a fanboy of, i dont let it distort the reality of the market, whether it be in terms of sales/quality/innovation/etc.... and most of all, i do not MAKE UP stuff about the other consoles/companies i do not like, just to promote my console of choice . For some reason fanboys from the other camps have no problem fabricating bs about Nintendo. Why ? "zealots".

Cheers

[Dakar the Fourth]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

Are you referring to the spiffy load times on the original Playstation as opposed to the faster-old-fashioned N64 ?

Those load times are what allowed textures to look semi-detailed, as opposed to the massive stretched crap that was going on with the inferior cartridges.

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

How are those installation times treating you ? cause we all know thats the best direction for gaming consoles to go in.

He doesn't have any, seeing as he's on a 360. But it really shouldn't be a surprise gaming consoles are following the same path as PC gaming. That platform has always had the technological edge. Perhaps you'd like to see next-gen cartridges designed?

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

Nintendo has admitted there is a storage issue with the Wii. Specifically, users who have a lot of VC, WiiWare, etc... content having to swap content between the internal memory and the SD card.

I(and probably a vast majority of Wii owners) have probably NOT run out of space, but i do see it as an inevitable issue regarding storage, but no more severe than an XB360/PS3 with 20GB HDD running out of storage now. (The content available for download on those platforms is proportionally larger as well... demos, movies, etc).

Are you serious? You would equate less than 512mb of storage on the Wii to a 20gb hard drive? And the PS3 doesn't even offer a 20 gig option (40 is the current lowest).

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

As for RockBand... poor effort never won my $$$.

It also happens to be the better game quite easily. It just sucks that you don't have a system that has the capabilities of all the features Rock Band ahs. Only with GH:WT can Activision hope to catch up to what Harmonix has done. But they're diluting the brand and really the genre so much right now that I'm not sure they'll be able to.

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

It just sucks that you don't have a system that has the capabilities of all the features Rock Band ahs.

Read first, then understand and THEN post a rebuttal. (And i mean that very sincerely). i'm getting kinda sick of constantly having to restate facts over and over again.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

Read first, then understand and THEN post a rebuttal. (And i mean that very sincerely). i'm getting kinda sick of constantly having to restate facts over and over again.

Don't be a ****, and then don't be a fanboy (and I mean that very sincerely). I'm getting kinda sick of constantly reading what you call "facts" over and over again.

[sek929]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

Are you referring to the spiffy load times on the original Playstation as opposed to the faster-old-fashioned N64 ?

No? Where are you pulling this out of? I was referring to the fact memory cards are obsolete and unnecessary in this day and age.

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

How are those installation times treating you ? cause we all know thats the best direction for gaming consoles to go in.

I have the common courtesy to remember what system you have when discussing things in this thread, try and return the favor. I have a 360, so I just play games.

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

Ummm not really, i have money in my bank account

??? So do I, in fact, enough to buy a 360, 3 controllers, 3 battery packs, 12 games and I just ordered an iMac. Also, I don't make that much money. Do you have a point here, or was that a shot at a piece of hardware with more options than the cheaper Wii?

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

I(and probably a vast majority of Wii owners) have probably NOT run out of space, but i do see it as an inevitable issue regarding storage, but no more severe than an XB360/PS3 with 20GB HDD running out of storage now. (The content available for download on those platforms is proportionally larger as well... demos, movies, etc).

I have 15GB free, I downloaded every free DLC there was, plus 6 Halo 3 maps. Yet another lame comparison of a 20GB hard drive and a f**kin 512MB memory card.

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

If given the option between SD/SDHC cards over HDD, i would go with the former.

Of course you would, seeing as the console you vehemently defend has only one option. You can buy a 360 core system and use Memory Cards if you're that in love with them.

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

Low latency(fast), no moving parts(reliable,durable, portable), easily swappable(customizable, upgradable).

Low latency? WTF are you smoking? Yeah, like I wait a minute to save my games. God, you come up with the stupidest reasons to dog on the other consoles. The saving/loading is lightning fast. End. Of. Story. Durable? Ok, HDDs DO fail...except most of the ones I have don't. I've also seen PS2 memory carsd completely **** the bed and corrupt save files. Both formats are as reliable as the other. I'll give you swappable, because in the end we PS3/360 people need to buy a memory card if we want to transfer our games. Finally a legitimate criticism, keep it up.

[sek929]

Look, Hawkeye, I don't want to be mean to you, and you are of course entitled to your opinion....but when you say something like "I prefer memory cards to built-in HDDs with oodles of space" you have to expect to be ridiculed.

The Wii is a fun system, I've had great hours playing it. But it has SEVERELY limited options for DLC due to it's pathetic amount of included storage. 1/40th the amount the 360 has and 1/80th that of the PS3. Honestly, how can you defend that decision?

You like memory cards, right? Then why the hell didn't they include a 2GB card? They're dirt cheap right now!

[Luca Rescigno]

I think it's weird that you criticize the PS1 for introducing load times due to the slower optical media while in the same breath defending the Wii, which suffers from the same disc-induced load times as any other console. What, do you think games need to go back to cartridges? Because in terms of loading times, the only fix is to change the hardware that is used for loading games. Switching from DVDs to cartridges is one way (and a totally cost-ineffective way, I might add). The only other way is to perform installations like with the PS3 and thus load game content from the hard drive.

There's no way you can advocate for flash memory for saving games over a hard drive based on load times. The two things are not related at all.

I might also point out that your argument against the Xbox's 20 GB hard drive is somewhat moot as well, because things like game demos and videos aren't generally kept forever. They're big, yes, but who keeps a demo around for more than a few weeks?

I understand that you like the Wii, and I can see why so many people do. But I don't get why you're trying to defend it on a technical level against the obviously technologically superior Xbox 360 and PS3. It just can't work. Praise it for what it's good at. You could even argue that one of the reasons it's been so successful is because it's less technologically advanced - lower graphics horsepower means it's easier for small developers to make games, and cheaper components keep the cost below the other consoles. Games also cost less thanks to those things ($50 vs. $60). And if you ever feel like PS360 owners just don't get it, remind yourself that lots more people are buying Wiis so it's not like you're part of some weird alienated minority.

[sek929]

Again, we have Luca (PS3 owner) and I (360 owner) in complete agreement.

In what twisted world are Sony and MS fans on the same side?