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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Notebooks > Just bought a new 12" w/Superdrive

Just bought a new 12" w/Superdrive
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micah
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Apr 19, 2004, 06:57 PM
 
I can't believe I did this. But it's time to upgrade from my trusty G3/600 ibook.

Expercom is having a great special, bundles Applecare for just $189 extra. I got it with the Applecare and an extra 512 RAM, the total was just $2087 shipped.
     
burdendds
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Apr 19, 2004, 07:40 PM
 
Just an FYI for others.. I bought the 12" SD model from CDW/Macwarehouse this afternoon. They had it *in stock* and I should have it by wednesday with the 2 day shipping option. Total was $1820 shipped.

This is my first mac since my beige G3 running MacOS 8.1. I think I may find things a bit different in the Apple world now. I'm looking forward to it.

Another switcher? we shall see...
     
K107
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Apr 19, 2004, 08:20 PM
 
were you guy able to change the video ram from 64 to 128 because I looking all over the site to try and do this.
     
tRr
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Apr 19, 2004, 08:48 PM
 
Originally posted by K107:
were you guy able to change the video ram from 64 to 128 because I looking all over the site to try and do this.
You can only change that on the 1.5 GHz computers (so the Top 15" and 17" PB's) and not the 12".
     
K107
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Apr 19, 2004, 08:54 PM
 
Originally posted by tRr:
You can only change that on the 1.5 GHz computers (so the Top 15" and 17" PB's) and not the 12".
I know that but I still don't see were I can change the Vram on the 15" superdrive model on both of those site. Expercom and CDW
     
chabig
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Apr 19, 2004, 09:07 PM
 
I don't think you can do it at those stores. You have to order from Apple using their "Build-to-order" options. Resellers only get the stock configurations.

Chris
     
sbdaigo
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Apr 19, 2004, 09:28 PM
 
I would love to know if the new 12 RevC has a better screen. The revb is not as bright as the iBook - which I don�t understand at all! I also would love to know how the battery and heat is with the upgrade.
MacBook Pro 15’er - 120 HD, 2gig Ram
     
Necrocool
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Apr 19, 2004, 09:53 PM
 
I'm getting a revC 12" later today i'll compare it with my revB.
     
WizOSX
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Apr 19, 2004, 09:59 PM
 
Originally posted by necrocool
I'm getting a revC 12" later today i'll compare it with my revB.
And anything else you can tell us about how they compare would be great!!
     
chabig
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Apr 19, 2004, 10:29 PM
 
I'm getting a revC 12" later today
How will you get one so soon? My store doesn't have them yet. Darn!

Chris
     
micah  (op)
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Apr 19, 2004, 11:45 PM
 
Mine is supposed to ship in 4-6 business days, but I'm not in any hurry.
     
chabig
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Apr 20, 2004, 12:38 AM
 
Yeah. My est. shipping date is 4/26.

Chris
     
Necrocool
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Apr 20, 2004, 01:08 AM
 
Ok here it is:



First of all, screen seems a little brighter on white background. Just a little bit, might due to it's age... But white background definitly looks better now.

I'll update with performance tests later.
     
escher
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Apr 20, 2004, 01:16 PM
 
Originally posted by Necrocool:
I'll update with performance tests later.
Please do, Nerocool. Even though I have already decided to buy the 12-inch PowerBook with the larger 80GB 5400rpm drive BTO, a good performance analysis and comparison with Rev.B will make the wait seem shorter.

Escher
"The only laptop computer that's useful is the one you have with you."
Until we get a 3 lbs sub-PowerBook, the 12-inch PowerBook will do.
     
gator
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Apr 20, 2004, 03:08 PM
 
Originally posted by escher:
Please do, Nerocool. Even though I have already decided to buy the 12-inch PowerBook with the larger 80GB 5400rpm drive BTO, a good performance analysis and comparison with Rev.B will make the wait seem shorter.

Escher
Seems like there's a few items over at Xbench that may show you the graphics/proc differences, but both ones I see there are stock configs... so you won't notice any hd difference.

New PB 12:
http://ladd.dyndns.org/xbench/merge.xhtml?doc1=62452
http://ladd.dyndns.org/xbench/merge.xhtml?doc1=62440

Random PB 12 1 GHz for reference (seemed like overall score over 100 was good for Rev. B so I included this one):
http://ladd.dyndns.org/xbench/merge.xhtml?doc1=61257

Appears that CPU numbers go from about 120 to about 155-160. Quartz and OpenGL seem to like the extra VRAM, Quartz goes up from around 128 to 155, OpenGL from 100 to 130.
12" PB 1 GHz Combo, 60GB, 512MB, AE
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Necrocool
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Apr 20, 2004, 04:43 PM
 
Speed difference is noticable even though my revB has a 7200rpm hdd.

The screen is around 3 bars brighter and the color looks nature without calibration. (the revB screen looks yellowish before calibration and still is more yellow on white after calibration.)

One thing that bothers me is that my 2.5" external drive stopped working on revC. I think it's due to lack of enough power from the USB ports. This is unacceptable. the drive worked on ibooks too...
     
sbdaigo
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Apr 20, 2004, 07:26 PM
 
Necrocool - What about battery and heat? Is it like the revb. Speed performance and brightness alone would sell me, but I don�t want to hear a fan like the revA!

Thanks for the input.

Also, maybe the USB is defective?
MacBook Pro 15’er - 120 HD, 2gig Ram
     
Necrocool
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Apr 20, 2004, 08:44 PM
 
Heat is about the same as rev. B and the fan turns on slightly less than B. (I had them on side by side). Battery life is about the same too.

I'm going to ask my local apple store about the USB problem tonight.
     
WizOSX
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Apr 20, 2004, 08:47 PM
 
Necrocool--

Did you get the Superdrive? If so, does it burn DVD-/+RW's? I assume you would have to use Toast to do so.
     
sbdaigo
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Apr 20, 2004, 09:07 PM
 
OK - one more question - what about airport. I cannot believe how much poorer the Tibook and the Al do than an iBook!

Thanks for the screen input, the iBook screen is so much brighter, and I hoped the new one is bettter. Looks like I might be ordering soon - with an 80 gig.
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iomatic
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Apr 20, 2004, 10:41 PM
 
Wow! They're really similar!
kidding; Just ordered a BTO Mon 8AM PST-- STILL OPEN!!! On macrumors.com's board someone already got their unit shipped! same 5400RPM drive!


Let us know more!

Originally posted by Necrocool:

...

First of all, screen seems a little brighter on white background. Just a little bit, might due to it's age... But white background definitly looks better now.

I'll update with performance tests later.
( Last edited by iomatic; Apr 20, 2004 at 11:12 PM. )
     
Necrocool
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Apr 21, 2004, 02:21 AM
 
Update on the situation... The local apple store exchanged mine for a new one after testing my hard drive on three of their display models. This new one would work sometimes... and a new problem appears... the charging light would not turn orange while charging! While i was at the store, another person apparently had the same problem with the 12"... I won't bother exchange for another one, but I'm afraid of Apple's quality control now. I didn't have any problem with my other Apple computers, and all of a sudden, I came across two defectives at once... #*$@ Oh well...

BTW, i think the screen is the same one used on the iBooks. I helped setup three iBook G4s before.

BTW: mine's combo drive model.
( Last edited by Necrocool; Apr 21, 2004 at 02:29 AM. )
     
iomatic
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Apr 21, 2004, 02:50 AM
 
Wow. I think you dashed my hopes. The last 1GHz 12" I had had very poor Airport (10 ft. max -- but promptly replaced), the 15" then had poor Airport reception, as well -- then the white spots showed up. Albeit I received great service, I'm now a little worried with Necrocool's news. I think we're a small sampling, to be sure, but this does not bode well...

crossing fingers for all of us...


Originally posted by Necrocool:

...
While i was at the store, another person apparently had the same problem with the 12"... I won't bother exchange for another one, but I'm afraid of Apple's quality control now. I didn't have any problem with my other Apple computers, and all of a sudden, I came across two defectives at once... #*$@ Oh well...

BTW, i think the screen is the same one used on the iBooks. I helped setup three iBook G4s before.

BTW: mine's combo drive model.
     
WizOSX
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Apr 21, 2004, 11:18 PM
 
Originally posted by Necrocool
Update on the situation... The local apple store exchanged mine for a new one after testing my hard drive on three of their display models. This new one would work sometimes... and a new problem appears... the charging light would not turn orange while charging! While i was at the store, another person apparently had the same problem with the 12"... I won't bother exchange for another one, but I'm afraid of Apple's quality control now. I didn't have any problem with my other Apple computers, and all of a sudden, I came across two defectives at once... #*$@ Oh well...
Anyone else already have problems with the new 12"? Do you know anyone who has?
     
mikeini
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Apr 22, 2004, 12:20 AM
 
i second this. i am heavily debating between new pb 12" or ibook 12 .. and after much debate (with myslef )i am leaning heavily towards the pb ...

anyone?
     
sbdaigo
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Apr 22, 2004, 12:33 AM
 
mikeini - I have a revb and I am going to order the revc - I too thought hard about the ibook, but for the few dollars, the PB 12 is like having the next generation iBook. My revb is VERY close to the new iBook. I doubt you would notice much difference except for the monitor span - but you can hack that.
MacBook Pro 15’er - 120 HD, 2gig Ram
     
Necrocool
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Apr 22, 2004, 01:13 AM
 
Yes, definitly get the PowerBook. It has AirPort and Bluetooth built-in, that is $150 value over the iBook. Plus the aluminum casing is MUCH more durable than plastic (I own a white iBook too).

Next, update on my situation. After two exchanges, I finally got one without problem. No dead pixel, external USB drive works, and the charger light works properly. I appriciate Apple Store's service, but I think they should really keep their quality control tight. This is the first time I've had so much trouble with Apple product (or any product...)
     
deeper
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Apr 22, 2004, 02:29 AM
 
Necrocool,
Thanks for the update on your new toy. I'm seriously considering getting one, so any and all user info is appreciated.
     
mikeini
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Apr 22, 2004, 02:44 AM
 
Necrocool - thanks for the advice. i know.. thats exactly my thinking to tell you the truth.

but when all is said and done, its basically 2 grand versus 1500 with sales tax and applecare ..... (i have edu discount). its not THAT much .. but for a student thats a TON!

I also know that i dont have to purchase applecare immedaitely (within one year).. so thats cutting the initial cost down by 3 hundred or so....

I dunno. just gonna wait till they reach the stores and go from there since i have one down teh street. i heard a rumor that they were due to arrive today to display?

mike

and if i remember the store, you buy a pb and you can get a free printer or something after rebate? anyone know about this? thanks for putting up with teh newb.
     
Necrocool
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Apr 22, 2004, 05:13 AM
 
mikeini, it's a free HP Deskjet 5150. $100 - $100 mail-in rebate. Here's the link: http://store.apple.com/Catalog/US/Im...ress4less.html
     
gsxrboy
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Apr 22, 2004, 06:18 AM
 
Necrocool,

Thx for the info so far.. I am -------> <-------- this close to buying one, it will be my first powerbook.. I will throw in another 512mb of ram right away.. Can you please tell me -

a) what kind of battery life you get from the 1.33gigger,
b) how far your airport range is (it looks like you have a DG834G or so modem? I have that one so I was just curious)
c) can you run a full set of xbench results (on highest performance setting in energy saver mode) for us
d) if the screen really is better than the prev one now you have settled into it a bit

Thx in advance..
     
Necrocool
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Apr 23, 2004, 04:01 AM
 
Sorry about the late reply, I've been busy on other things today.

1. Battery life is somewhere between 3:30 - 4:30 depending on use.. which is about the same as 1gigers. Battery olds a max. charge of 4400mAh.

2. AirPort range is also about the same as rev. B. I use it on 2nd floor with lots of walls between it and the router. Not bad.

3. XBench, sure, here it is:

Results 115.03
System Info
Xbench Version 1.1.3
System Version 10.3.3 (7G33)
Physical RAM 768 MB
Model PowerBook6,4
Processor PowerPC G4 @ 1.33 GHz
L1 Cache 32K (instruction), 32K (data)
L2 Cache 512K @ 1.33 GHz
Bus Frequency 167 MHz
Video Card GeForce FX Go5200
Drive Type TOSHIBA MK6025GAS
CPU Test 144.28
GCD Loop 155.64 6.08 Mops/sec
Floating Point Basic 122.21 441.97 Mflop/sec
AltiVec Basic 163.00 4.73 Gflop/sec
vecLib FFT 162.66 2.53 Gflop/sec
Floating Point Library 128.77 5.15 Mops/sec
Thread Test 116.84
Computation 84.32 1.14 Mops/sec, 4 threads
Lock Contention 190.16 2.39 Mlocks/sec, 4 threads
Memory Test 133.21
System 148.40
Allocate 873.95 570.08 Kalloc/sec
Fill 146.99 1170.03 MB/sec
Copy 81.51 407.56 MB/sec
Stream 120.84
Copy 121.38 887.31 MB/sec [altivec]
Scale 124.16 916.31 MB/sec [altivec]
Add 121.20 775.70 MB/sec [altivec]
Triad 116.83 713.85 MB/sec [altivec]
Quartz Graphics Test 155.27
Line 135.22 3.44 Klines/sec [50% alpha]
Rectangle 126.96 8.93 Krects/sec [50% alpha]
Circle 150.72 3.47 Kcircles/sec [50% alpha]
Bezier 165.76 1.80 Kbeziers/sec [50% alpha]
Text 234.63 3.82 Kchars/sec
OpenGL Graphics Test 131.69
Spinning Squares 131.69 92.15 frames/sec
User Interface Test 211.93
Elements 211.93 68.17 refresh/sec
Disk Test 52.35
Sequential 55.32
Uncached Write 58.65 24.45 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 42.13 17.25 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 123.48 19.55 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 42.70 17.25 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Random 49.68
Uncached Write 44.18 0.66 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 46.66 10.52 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 56.87 0.38 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 52.98 10.90 MB/sec [256K blocks]

4. The screen REALLY is better. At first i thought they were the same, but after transfering files side by side with the older one, I can clearly tell the difference. It does not have the yellow/brownish tint on the older one, which is about the same as the iBook G4 screen. so i assume they are the same.
     
JKT
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Apr 23, 2004, 06:21 AM
 
Originally posted by Necrocool:
4. The screen REALLY is better. At first i thought they were the same, but after transfering files side by side with the older one, I can clearly tell the difference. It does not have the yellow/brownish tint on the older one, which is about the same as the iBook G4 screen. so i assume they are the same.
Not being funny here... but can't you calibrate your older PB to get rid of this tint? I would have thought a user-defined ColorSync profile would solve this?
     
pgolf
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Apr 23, 2004, 07:03 AM
 
Originally posted by JKT:
Not being funny here... but can't you calibrate your older PB to get rid of this tint? I would have thought a user-defined ColorSync profile would solve this?
I guess he could do that. But the point he making is that RevB and RevC does not have the same LCD.
     
gsxrboy
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Apr 23, 2004, 07:06 AM
 
Thx muchly for the info Necrocool, I think the only decision left is do I go for a 12" pbook and pocket the change for an external screen or go for a 15" pbook ... hmm decisions, decisions .... I am so confuzzed
     
elfmund
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Apr 23, 2004, 09:43 AM
 
i'm leaning towards upgrading my Rev A 12" PB to a rev B 15" 1,5ghz monster

the only thing which bothers me is that I am so used to the 12" portability that I'm afraid that the 15" will be too large for me and my girlfriend...
I want the 15" because of the superior graphics card and bigger screen + resolution but my girlfriend thinks it is too big

any thoughts ?
     
hardcat1970
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Apr 23, 2004, 10:14 AM
 
Originally posted by elfmund:
i'm leaning towards upgrading my Rev A 12" PB to a rev B 15" 1,5ghz monster

the only thing which bothers me is that I am so used to the 12" portability that I'm afraid that the 15" will be too large for me and my girlfriend...
I want the 15" because of the superior graphics card and bigger screen + resolution but my girlfriend thinks it is too big

any thoughts ?
I don't think the 15" is big, it's just heavier. I chose the 12" because it weighs 4.6lbs. If the 15" were under 5 pounds, i would have bought one. It might not be a concern for everyone, but i'm only 5' 7" and 140lbs, carry a 5.6 lb computer is just too much.
     
Commodus
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Apr 23, 2004, 11:38 AM
 
elfmund:

The revision C 12" PowerBook isn't exactly neutered. The only thing I would love that isn't there is a faster video chipset, but I don't expect any laptop at that size to carry a high-end graphics chip (they frequently can't!). You'd probably love the performance improvement over your original 12" model.

One thing you could always do, if you mainly need the extra resolution at home, is to get an LCD display and hook it up to the PowerBook when you're at your desk - assuming that a desk is where you tend to use it!
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Necrocool
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Apr 23, 2004, 02:26 PM
 
Originally posted by JKT:
Not being funny here... but can't you calibrate your older PB to get rid of this tint? I would have thought a user-defined ColorSync profile would solve this?
JKT: Thanks for the suggestion! I did compare them after colorsync calibration. In fact, that's the first thing i did when i setup new laptops. It does help a lot, but the physical limitation of the screen still limits what software calibration can do. Even after the calibration, I can still tell a difference in color and brightness.

I'm planning to put a 7200 drive in it, and I'll hopefully take some pics of the internal structures to compare.

For students 12" is the best because it's just hard to bring out a 15" in crowded classrooms without everyone noticing it.
     
iREZ
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Apr 23, 2004, 03:21 PM
 
I've seen much higher xbench scores then the one you posted Nerocool. You might've ran it with the energy saver on. If not then maybe I should keep my 12" instead of upgrading. 10 points higher in xbench isn't much.
NOW YOU SEE ME! 2.4 MBP and 2.0 MBP (running ubuntu)
     
rsgunther
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Apr 23, 2004, 09:51 PM
 
Originally posted by elfmund:
i'm leaning towards upgrading my Rev A 12" PB to a rev B 15" 1,5ghz monster

the only thing which bothers me is that I am so used to the 12" portability that I'm afraid that the 15" will be too large for me and my girlfriend...
I want the 15" because of the superior graphics card and bigger screen + resolution but my girlfriend thinks it is too big

any thoughts ?
I would recommend you either keep your 12" or buy a new 12". Based on your comments you probably won't be happy with a 15".

I had a 12" & bought the 15" (sold the 12" on ebay). This was from a 12" rev. B 1GHZ combo to a 15" 1.25GHZ w/superdrive. I decided after buying the 12" that I wanted a superdrive, so I sold it & went with the 15". I figured it was more powerful, had a better graphics card (I don't like NVIDIA), bigger HD, backlit keyboard, etc.

Although, I really like the 15", I find myself missing the 12". There was just something about it, the size, speed, etc. It is a cool machine.

I think if you are so concerned about the size & your girlfriend thinks it is too big, then you should probably stick with what you've got.

Good luck!
     
all2ofme
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Apr 24, 2004, 08:24 AM
 
I tried this with Supercal on my 1GHz 12" and there was no way I could get the screen to display a clear white (something the 15" and 17" machines I'd had before had no trouble doing).

The 12" screens are crap, in my opinion, but the machine is a little beast otherwise.

Originally posted by JKT:
Not being funny here... but can't you calibrate your older PB to get rid of this tint? I would have thought a user-defined ColorSync profile would solve this?
     
Necrocool
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Apr 24, 2004, 04:02 PM
 
Ok, got a Toshiba 50GB 7200rpm HDD installed. Here's a pic of what's inside.

     
0s and 1s
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Apr 24, 2004, 08:04 PM
 
Necro: How much for the HD...and where?
     
0s and 1s
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Apr 24, 2004, 08:06 PM
 
And has the question whether upgrading a hd would void the Apple warranty ever been answered? If it doesn't, I might as well buy a 15" PB with 80gb 4200rpm and buy a faster one later down the road.
     
Necrocool
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Apr 24, 2004, 10:18 PM
 
0s and 1s:
It's Toshiba MK5024GAY 50GB, 7200rpm, 16MB buffer.
I bought it end of last year for around $220 at mwave.com. They don't carry it any more now, but you can get the Hitachi 7K60 for about the same price now. It does void the warranty if you do it by yourself, so be very careful.
     
funkboy
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Apr 25, 2004, 12:38 AM
 
Question:

do any of the new PowerBook G4s have Level 3 caches in them? I can't really tell, and if I use this for a sort of desktop replacement machine, I'd definitely like that in there.

I'm wondering how much of an improvement I'll see over my iMac 800 w/ GeForce4MX card in it... the GeForce card in the 12" would be significantly faster, correct? I can't get Unreal Tourney 2003 to play worth crap on my iMac 800, and I figure that's a good program with which to gauge the new PB's performance.

I'm wondering just how much of a speed boost I'd see going from an iMac 800 G4 (no L3 cache in it!) to a PowerBook 12" 1.33GHz.
     
Simon
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Apr 25, 2004, 05:04 AM
 
Originally posted by funkboy:
do any of the new PowerBook G4s have Level 3 caches in them? I can't really tell, and if I use this for a sort of desktop replacement machine, I'd definitely like that in there.
...
I'm wondering just how much of a speed boost I'd see going from an iMac 800 G4 (no L3 cache in it!) to a PowerBook 12" 1.33GHz.
None of the PowerBooks have L3 cache anymore. The PPC 7447 has 512kB of on-die L2 cache an no L3 cache support. In the end this helps more than the previous 256kB L2 + L3 cache since the on-die L2 cache runs at full speed, which the L3 didn't. Any Al PowerBook you see has no L3 cache; the last that had one was the 1GHz Ti.

Anyway, the 1.33GHz PowerBook will kill your iMac regardless of cache. The CPU will give roughly twice the performance, the bus is faster, the RAM is faster, the GPU is better has more VRAM, runs on faster AGP, etc. I have a 1GHz PowerBook which runs about as fast as my 1GHz iMac. But my 1GHz iMac slaughters the 800MHz iMacs due to the much better board architecture. Now imagine what a 1.33GHz PowerBook will do to it...

Here's a quick comparison of two xBench score sheets. The red is the iMac, the blue is the Powerbook. The only area where the iMac has the slightest chance is the hard disk.

I don't know about gaming, but for normal work the PowerBook will be much nicer to work with than the iMac. iMacs are very nice, but PowerBooks are awesome. The remaining question is if you want to go from a wide 17" to a normal 12"?
     
Olorin
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Apr 25, 2004, 06:09 AM
 
How do you think a 12" 1.33Ghz would compare to a TiBook 1Ghz performance wise. And how much better is the 5200 than the ATI9000?
"Not all who wander are lost." ~ Gandalf
     
dennis88
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Join Date: May 2003
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Apr 25, 2004, 08:17 AM
 
Listen up folks.

The fx5200go is a quite good card for mac, BECAUSE:

Nvidia is much better than ati on opengl, that is a fact, and ati is much better than nvidia on directx.

And since mac uses opengl in osx, the nvidia card show greater strenghts then the ati cards.

Just look at halo, the iMac 1,25ghz with fx5200 64mb, gets better score then the powerbook 1.25ghz with ati mobility 9600 64mb, that is a better a better card in the pc market.

So just because the ati card is better in the pc market, doesn't mean it's better in the mac market.

So the 12" pb with fx5200go 64mb should be able to play halo fine.
Maybe even better then the 1.25ghz 15" with mobility 9600 did.
Because if the fx5200go in the 12" is as good as the fx5200 in the iMac, it will.
     
   
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