[Scooterboy]

Next year or the next, you own a MacTel, maybe a PowerBook Pentium M or a Mac Pentium Mini, or maybe a PowerMac Pentium 4... These Macs with Intel Inside will dual boot OS X or Windows. Who in their right mind will buy the Mac OS games, when the PC Windows games are less expensive and will perform better?

Does this mean Mac OS gaming is over and a brave new world of Apple Windows gaming is on the horizon?

[Randman]

Where did you get the dual boot info from?

[AKcrab]

Originally Posted by Randman

Where did you get the dual boot info from?

No kidding. Mac users have gone completely insane. This is gonna be a long 1-2 years.

[blizzard]

I think I read over on Ars that Phil Schiller said Apple would do nothing to prevent dual booting Windows and OS X on the new Apple hardware...given that, I think a dual boot solution makes a lot of sense! Especially for things like games. So, in a nutshell, it's difficult to say, although it makes sense that dual booting would hurt Mac gaming more than help it. Although, porting may also be significantly easier, which may mean the price disparity will vanish...hard to tell!

[sniffer]

I don't mind paying for macintel games in the future, but it would be difficult to justify if games runs so much better natively in win-boxes (software) on OS X or if I can just dual boot into Windows.

Pretty scary thought if this Intel move makes mac development absolute. Just look at OS/2 and what IBM did to them self. I hope Apple know how to keep developers to their own platform and API'es.

[The iMac Man]

Dual boot sounds like it will definitely be an option. For us "power-users" that's great, but apparently dual booting is just too complicated for the average user, and these people will still want Mac games. But, does that leave a large enough market to make porting games to the Mac worth while?

[Horsepoo!!!]

Personally, I'll still buy Mac games...but if a game has no chance to be ported to Mac, it'll be nice to know I can boot into Windows XP from my Mac and running a few games.

I'm not sure why some developers and some of you think the Mac game market will die. Everyone that has a Mac will want to stay as much as possible in OS X. People with Macintels will demand for Mac games because they'll hate booting into XP after using OS X. If anything, the Mac market will grow...especially now that Mac marketshare is on the rise, there are even more incentives to port games to Mac.

What this does spell out though is the end of Apple's benchmark comparisons between Mac and PC. Since both are going to be running at the same speeds, Apple will either be forced to drop prices on their Macs and/or videocards or suffer the wrath of angry users that will simply hack/crack their PCs to run OS X for cheaper.

[sniffer]

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!!

What this does spell out though is the end of Apple's benchmark comparisons between Mac and PC. Since both are going to be running at the same speeds, Apple will either be forced to drop prices on their Macs and/or videocards or suffer the wrath of angry users that will simply hack/crack their PCs to run OS X for cheaper.

Really wishful thinking. There is no reason to believe ported games or apps will come at Windows speeds just because of a processor change. Architecturally ISA differences is just a minor part of the challenges porting houses need to overcome. The only real advantage with going to Intel will probably be quicker porting time. And I doubt Apple will just sit and watch if the problem of OS X running on none-mac hardware gets big enough. I even doubt Apple hardware will be noticeable cheaper. Remember, Apple is after all their own PC platform even when running on x86 chips. They have the power to do what ever they want or need, provided they play their cards wisely.

[The iMac Man]

Originally Posted by sniffer

The only real advantage with going to Intel will probably be quicker porting time.

Actually, according to comments I've read from porters, it will actually take MORE time now, because they are still going to have to support PPC Macs, which means they will basically have two versions of the game to test.

[sniffer]

Good point, at least in short term. ^^

[KS-Jayhawk]

Won't there be 3 versions of the game to develop/test Mactel, PPC, and windows?

[Horsepoo!!!]

Universal Binaries for games will not be an issue. Developers may be saying they'll have to support both the PPC and x86 binary but I think that's BS. Just like Doom 3 and it's high requirements, you need not try to support older processors because the game will simply not run on them.

The same will happen when we switch to the x86 platform. In 2 years, games will require a G5 to run and even the G5 will be choking on them. Apple can't foresee the G5 going into PowerBooks let a lone iBooks so game port houses will be sacrificing a very small G5 crowd that won't be able to run the games well anyways.

And if future games do run well on G5s, port houses can decide to leave early adopters in the dust and only make a PPC version.

The transition shouldn't be as dramatic as Glenda Adams et al. make it sound. The transition problems and sacrifices will last maybe a year at most. Games will either run on your machine or won't...and it won't be because you're on a different chip architecture...it'll be because your processor or videocard is too slow.

I don't think IBM will try very hard to give Apple some snazzy new processors between now and the transition now that Jobs has successfully given them 'the finger.' So you can darn well be sure the games in two years will require a jump from the 2.7 G5s ceiling we're going to be stuck at to whatever Intel will have then.

[The iMac Man]

Originally Posted by KS-Jayhawk

Won't there be 3 versions of the game to develop/test Mactel, PPC, and windows?

No. Windows is the original version... that is all up to the original developers.


THEN, someone like Aspyr comes around and PORTS that game to the Mac. Then Aspyr is responsible for testing and supporting the version they made... the Mac version.

[Powerbook]

Originally Posted by sniffer

Pretty scary thought if this Intel move makes mac development absolute. Just look at OS/2 and what IBM did to them self. I hope Apple know how to keep developers to their own platform and API'es.

That are my fears exactly... :-(

PB.

[DrBoar]

OS X does not have to go the way of OS/2 did.
OS/2 dis not have a userbase and it could also run Win apps without rebooting.
Apple have to take care how they do the Win thing. My guess that Win will be like Linux (rebooting)

However, in Windows you can install Virtual PC and then use that PC for runing other windows versions, linux. unix etc as just an other application. My guess is that Apple could do this as well and make it work for plain vianilla apps, things that need a closer work with the hardware usually does not take to kindly to emulation.

If we have Mac/win boot on the same computer it will make benchmarking that more interesting. What if one OS is consistently much slower than the other...

[Thain Esh Kelch]

Well, I for one wont ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever touch windows. Its crap. Period.

[The iMac Man]

Originally Posted by Thain Esh Kelch

Well, I for one wont ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever touch windows. Its crap. Period.

I agree that it's crap, but really, when playing games, who cares what OS is behind it!?

I'll only see Windows for a minute before I launch my games, and would most likely never launch any other app in Windows.

It's just too nice of an offer to deny simply because Windows sucks.

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally Posted by The iMac Man

I agree that it's crap, but really, when playing games, who cares what OS is behind it!?

I'll only see Windows for a minute before I launch my games, and would most likely never launch any other app in Windows.

It's just too nice of an offer to deny simply because Windows sucks.

The way I see it...it's not a nice offer at all.

[Thain Esh Kelch]

Originally Posted by The iMac Man

I agree that it's crap, but really, when playing games, who cares what OS is behind it!?

I'll only see Windows for a minute before I launch my games, and would most likely never launch any other app in Windows.

It's just too nice of an offer to deny simply because Windows sucks.

I would just like to have things simple, ie. not have to dual-boot just to play.

And I dont want to reinstall Windows once every month... >.<

[Scooterboy]

So, you want upcoming game x. It hits the stores, for PC, and you can have it opening night if you're willing to stand in line. Or you can buy it online if crowds bug you. Or you can wait 3, 6, 12 or more months until it comes out for Mac. If you can boot into Windows and run the PC game now, which one are you gonna buy? Even if you don't like Windows, the game will most likely run better in Windows than in OS X.

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally Posted by Scooterboy

So, you want upcoming game x. It hits the stores, for PC, and you can have it opening night if you're willing to stand in line. Or you can buy it online if crowds bug you. Or you can wait 3, 6, 12 or more months until it comes out for Mac. If you can boot into Windows and run the PC game now, which one are you gonna buy? Even if you don't like Windows, the game will most likely run better in Windows than in OS X.

I'll wait if I know the game will be out for Macs within 4-5 months. Of course, I'm not a game-whore like some people.

There should be little reason for games to take 6-12 months once the Mac is on an Intel architecture (except for the games that will be Universal Binaries). Here are some of the main issues Mac game developers have to cope with: DirectX -> OpenGL conversions, byteswaps, optimization, SSE to something else conversions. DirectX to OpenGL conversions may always be around, but byteswaps won't be an issue anymore, optimization will be much less of an issue, SSE will not be an issue. If the game uses OpenGL from the very beginning, the port should not take very long to do.

The determining factor will be the original developer's willingness to let the game be ported. Some of them leave the port houses hanging forever...the port is done but the final OK hasn't been given to release the game. There's nothing anyone can do about that ('cept slap the original game developers upside the head.)

FurionStormrage will probably barge in here and give his other side of the story but I'm sticking to mine. People that will dual boot into Windows to play games are likely to be the Mac users that currently have a PC for gaming or the Windows to Mac switchers. Dual-booters will be a minority and will not affect Mac gaming one bit.

[Scooterboy]

Direct X games will play better in Windows than when ported to OpenGL for OS X. There are added expenses for the ports; coding, testing, marketing. If the Windows game can play natively on your MacTel, what's stopping you from buying and playing it? I wouldn't call anyone a "game whore" for buying a new game and playing it, or for wanting to play a current game online with her friends. New gamers switching over from Windows PCs to a MacTel PC that can run Windows are not going to wait around months and months for the Mac version to ship. Why should they? To buy the more expensive version that performs worse? And comes out so late that their friends are done with the game or are unbeatable by the time of the OS X release?

Game developers have stated that games will likely take longer to port to Mac because the Mac will exist on 2 platforms, PPC and Intel, and they will have to build and test for both platforms instead of just one. Fat binaries. I'll wait and buy the Mac games because I have a PPC Mac so I have to wait. Switchers new to the MacTel won't have to wait.

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally Posted by Scooterboy

Direct X games will play better in Windows than when ported to OpenGL for OS X. There are added expenses for the ports; coding, testing, marketing. If the Windows game can play natively on your MacTel, what's stopping you from buying and playing it?

Ohhh, I dunno...maybe a 300 dollar copy of Windows XP? Or will all Macs ship with Windows XP? If this is people how people seriously think, what's stopping them from buying a PC and playing their games on it?

I wouldn't call anyone a "game whore" for buying a new game and playing it, or for wanting to play a current game online with her friends. New gamers switching over from Windows PCs to a MacTel PC that can run Windows are not going to wait around months and months for the Mac version to ship. Why should they? To buy the more expensive version that performs worse? And comes out so late that their friends are done with the game or are unbeatable by the time of the OS X release?

Not all games are internet-play only and have a rich single-player storyline. Some games are internet-play only and can keep players playing for months or even years (MMORPG). If the game is ported rapidly, what's the problem with waiting 1 or 2 months?

Game developers have stated that games will likely take longer to port to Mac because the Mac will exist on 2 platforms, PPC and Intel, and they will have to build and test for both platforms instead of just one. Fat binaries. I'll wait and buy the Mac games because I have a PPC Mac so I have to wait. Switchers new to the MacTel won't have to wait.

This is pure horsepoo, seriously...if the Sims 2, one of the most popular game serie ever and a game that's supposed to run on many, many machine, has trouble running on the fastest G5, I really doubt developers will even consider porting to PPC. In a year from now, when IBM still hasn't delivered anything over 2.7GHz and when games become even more complex than Sims 2, or Sim City 4 or Doom 3, do you think these games will run on a G5? Certainly not. And developers won't waste time porting and optimizing the **** out of the ports so they can finally reach 10 fps on the fastest G5 available.

If you got a G4 or G5 right now...this is it for games...you can notice the performance issues of recently released games right now. In a year or two, games will simply not run.

If I were a hardcore gamer (I'm not but maybe you are), I'd put any Mac purchase on hold right now until the MacIntels are out. Because there's no doubt in my mind that it's the end of the road for PPC and games.

Productivity apps that can still run fast will be made into Universal Binaries but games that need cutting edge processors and videocards will not be made into Universal Binaries.

[U n i o n 0015]

I am one of those users that would rather not load two OSes onto my system just to play games. I would much rather purchase all of my games for the superior OS...which is OS X (IMO). Seeing Windows for two seconds doesn't concern me, but I'd rather not have it installed on my Mactel AT ALL. Period. I am sure that the general Mac population is like me and would prefer only to have one OS on their system.

[The iMac Man]

Originally Posted by U n i o n 0015

I am one of those users that would rather not load two OSes onto my system just to play games. I would much rather purchase all of my games for the superior OS...which is OS X (IMO). Seeing Windows for two seconds doesn't concern me, but I'd rather not have it installed on my Mactel AT ALL. Period. I am sure that the general Mac population is like me and would prefer only to have one OS on their system.

The point is, games aren't made for "the general Mac population".... they are made for gamers!

And, us gamers that really want the best selection we can get are going to jump all over the ability to use Windows to play all the games we want.

And, being that the majority of current Mac game sales are probably going to people like me, this could mean the end of Mac game porting, because we will have already bought the Windows version. And that means there will be no Mac port as an option for the people who don't want to dual-boot.

Yep, it sucks, but it's a very possible reality. I don't want Mac ports to go away either, but I'm also not going to pass up the ability to run Windows games, and if that kills Mac porters, so be it.

[Jim Paradise]

There's a reason to port Mac games as people like myself will not drop money on a PC, nor will I buy a copy of Windows to run on my next Mac assuming Windows does even run on it the first place.

[The iMac Man]

Originally Posted by Jim Paradise

There's a reason to port Mac games as people like myself will not drop money on a PC, nor will I buy a copy of Windows to run on my next Mac assuming Windows does even run on it the first place.

What I am saying, though, is, I don't think there are enough people like you out there to justify the Mac game porters taking the time, effort, and money to port games to the Mac.

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!!

This is pure horsepoo, seriously...if the Sims 2, one of the most popular game serie ever and a game that's supposed to run on many, many machine, has trouble running on the fastest G5, I really doubt developers will even consider porting to PPC.

Your other assertions aside, you started this thread by lamenting the sluggishness of Sims 2 on G5s, but your view was contradicted by a number of people who said even high end PCs have trouble keeping up with it. I thought you'd quiet down after reading their replies, but you persist in citing that same example in order to support your conclusion about the future of Mac gaming. Why don't you just let the merit of your argument stand by itself, without the embellishment of half-facts?

[goMac]

Remember, most game companies are going to have to port to PPC anyway now due to the new consoles.

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally Posted by Big Mac

Your other assertions aside, you started this thread by lamenting the sluggishness of Sims 2 on G5s, but your view was contradicted by a number of people who said even high end PCs have trouble keeping up with it. I thought you'd quiet down after reading their replies, but you persist in citing that same example in order to support your conclusion about the future of Mac gaming. Why don't you just let the merit of your argument stand by itself, without the embellishment of half-facts?

Not nearly as sluggish as on the Mac. Have you tried the Sims 2 on the PC?

[Drakino]

One word:

DarWINE

Why dual boot into Windows, when DarWINE on MacTels will just let me run that game inside OS X. I'm sure it's not going to be an overnight thing, but already they have many of the Windows APIs on the PPC side.

Mac gaming will still likely putter on as it has been even after the transition. And it might even get better if the platform grows. I honestly would welcome much more games on the shelves with out of the box dual platform support. No offense to the porting houses, but I buy games once. With the amount of games that never make it to the Mac, I found that I must keep a Windows PC around for gaming. And so that is the platform that still sees my gaming money.

[osxrules]

I think that there should be a standrard gaming API that all developers must conform to so that games immediately work for all platforms - Mac, Linux and Windows. We're in the 21st century, there's no reason why there should still be this stupid problem. It's all because of M$ too and their proprietary DirectX crud. M$ could easily support OpenGL fully and help develop it.

I agree with Drakino that Darwine or the recent announcement from the people who make crossover office about supporting Mactel would be the easiest option for game developers. The problem I see with those environments is that some viruses and things might be able to run using them. Not any more than running Windows would of course. I guess as long as it couldn't write to an HFS partition things would be safe enough.

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally Posted by goMac

Remember, most game companies are going to have to port to PPC anyway now due to the new consoles.

It doesn't work that way in the real world.

You'd think there would be lotsa Mac ports using source code from the GameCube games but it turns out most of them are ported to x86 and then, if we're lucky, back to PPC. Inefficient but hey...

[Sarc]

I'm a Powerbook user, to install Windows I would need a secondary drive with booting capabilities, wich first of all, I don't have. Then I wouldn't carry it around with me. Plus the copy of WinXp, with all the maintenance it demands.
That's a lot of trouble for a -camputer game-.

I'd rather have the MacOS X version.

[ul1984]

im guessing transgaming will see this Mac/x86 opportunity and make a version of cedega for OS X, then i suppose there wont be much reason to buy mac games.

for those who dont know what cedega is, it's a commercial version of wine which is focused on games and DirectX/3D

[The iMac Man]

Originally Posted by Sarc

I'm a Powerbook user, to install Windows I would need a secondary drive with booting capabilities, wich first of all, I don't have. Then I wouldn't carry it around with me. Plus the copy of WinXp, with all the maintenance it demands.
That's a lot of trouble for a -camputer game-.

I'd rather have the MacOS X version.

Or you could partition your internal drive...

And, this isn't for "A" computer game.... it's for THOUSANDS of computer games!

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!!

It doesn't work that way in the real world.

You'd think there would be lotsa Mac ports using source code from the GameCube games but it turns out most of them are ported to x86 and then, if we're lucky, back to PPC. Inefficient but hey...

Well no, if you have a game coded for Gamecube only, it's probably not going to make it back to Mac. But if you have a game that is PC/XBox360/Revolution/PS3, you can assume the code is going to be processor independent. You'd port the Win32 code, but use any PowerPC code with it from the consoles with it for MacPPC.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by ul1984

im guessing transgaming will see this Mac/x86 opportunity and make a version of cedega for OS X, then i suppose there wont be much reason to buy mac games.

for those who dont know what cedega is, it's a commercial version of wine which is focused on games and DirectX/3D

FYI Wine is not going to be a good solution for end users, only pro users.

[ul1984]

Originally Posted by goMac

FYI Wine is not going to be a good solution for end users, only pro users.

no wine might not be, but i think cedaga could be, cedaga for linux already has a gui which lets you install games very easly(i think)

i think it would be very possible to make an ever more user friendly version for the Mac market, (example, end user goes and buys cedega, installs it like a normal mac app, and when he starts it it will let you specify what game you want to install from a long list, and then cedega tells you to put in the original windows CD of the game, a few mins later it would be installed, cedegas current linux GUI already does something similiar to this)

of course this would only work with supported titles, but cedega already supports lots of games

and they could use an autoupdate system, to release support for new games.


well at least it looks like we will have a native version of WoW, and thats all i care about

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally Posted by The iMac Man

Or you could partition your internal drive...

And, this isn't for "A" computer game.... it's for THOUSANDS of computer games!

Here you go talking about partitioning hard drives. Can you be realistic for just 2 seconds and tell me who (other than you and your geek friends that already have multiple partitions) from the current users will wipe their hard drive to make a new partition (considering there is no freeware or shareware tool that allows you to partition an HD without wiping everything that's on it) for a store bought copy of Windows XP?

Can you tell me who from the new PC to Mac switchers will wipe their default install of Mac OS X 10.whatever to repartition their newly bought Macintel to make a partition for Windows XP?

Or will everyone not think twice and rush out to buy an on-the-fly partition maker/resizer and Windows XP to install THOUSANDS of computer games.

Don't let those 10+ partitions on your multiple HD setup fool you...you're not 'an average user'. Heck...the biggest geek I know only has 4 partitions. You've almost tripled the geek-factor with your setup.

[The iMac Man]

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!!

(considering there is no freeware or shareware tool that allows you to partition an HD without wiping everything that's on it)

Oh really!? What do you call these?

http://www.versiontracker.com/php/se...macosx&x=0&y=0

And, again, I'm not talking about partitioning for ONE thing... this will allow for thousands of new possibilities and is WELL worth it.

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!!

Don't let those 10+ partitions on your multiple HD setup fool you...you're not 'an average user'. Heck...the biggest geek I know only has 4 partitions. You've almost tripled the geek-factor with your setup.

Well then, it's obvious that I am far superior to everyone you know.

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally Posted by The iMac Man

Oh really!? What do you call these?

http://www.versiontracker.com/php/se...macosx&x=0&y=0

I call these "You just searched for the word 'partition' and didn't even look at the search results"!

If you look at it more closely, all the utilities that can create new partitions are commercial software with a 40+ dollar price tag. And some of those on the list can't even create or resize partitions, they can only mount them (which would be useless if you bought your Macintel and it only had 1 partition.)

Unless someone bought his Mac and:

a) the first thing he did was wipe the HD with the free tools that come with OS X, repartition and reinstall OS X and install Windows XP on another partition

or

b) do stuff with the Mac, install programs, realize that he now wants to play PC games so proceeds to buy a partitioning utility (since he probably wouldn't want to wipe his HD that already has lotsa files on it), partitions his HD on-the-fly, install Windows XP

...that person won't bother with PC games at all.

I'd have trouble believing newbie switchers will have the knowledge to do the above mentioned scenarios. Some may go through the trouble...but these will be a minority.

Partitioning hard drives is just not something people do very often. In fact, if there was an unbiased poll with 3 choices: "yes, my HD is partitioned", "no, my HD is not partitioned", and "partiwhat!?", I'd say over 75% would fall in the partiwhat category...and that's a generous guess. I'd wager it's closer to 85% or even 90%.

[The iMac Man]

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!!

I call these "You just searched for the word 'partition' and didn't even look at the search results"!

Talking with you is like this:




Obviously you are smart enough to know that I can't take out search results that aren't exactly pertinent, right?

2 or 3 of those apps will do exactly what you want, and even if they are $40, I've seen "shareware" that expensive before. And, it's not like you need to have a "freeware" or "shareware" option in order to say something exists.

[The iMac Man]

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!!

I call these "You just searched for the word 'partition' and didn't even look at the search results"!

Talking with you is like this:




Obviously you are smart enough to know that I can't take out search results that aren't exactly pertinent, right?

2 or 3 of those apps will do exactly what you want, and even if they are $40, I've seen "shareware" that expensive before. And, it's not like you need to have a "freeware" or "shareware" option in order to say something exists.

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!!

Partitioning hard drives is just not something people do very often. In fact, if there was an unbiased poll with 3 choices: "yes, my HD is partitioned", "no, my HD is not partitioned", and "partiwhat!?", I'd say over 75% would fall in the partiwhat category...and that's a generous guess. I'd wager it's closer to 85% or even 90%.

Start a poll then! ...I'd love to see the results.

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by Scooterboy

Next year or the next, you own a MacTel, maybe a PowerBook Pentium M or a Mac Pentium Mini, or maybe a PowerMac Pentium 4... These Macs with Intel Inside will dual boot OS X or Windows. Who in their right mind will buy the Mac OS games, when the PC Windows games are less expensive and will perform better?

What evidence do you have that the Windows versions will be cheaper or perform better on the same hardware? I've never seen a Mac version of a game be more expensive than its PC counterpart, and your assumptions of Windows performing better on the same hardware are absurd, since no tests have yet been run.

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by Scooterboy

Direct X games will play better in Windows than when ported to OpenGL for OS X.

Evidence, please.

There are added expenses for the ports; coding, testing, marketing.

This is only true if the games are developed at different times. More and more we've been hearing about simultaneous releases, in which case these expenses get rolled into the initial development cost.

Game developers have stated that games will likely take longer to port to Mac because the Mac will exist on 2 platforms, PPC and Intel, and they will have to build and test for both platforms instead of just one.

That won't happen. PPC will be dropped like a hot potato; just you watch.

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally Posted by The iMac Man

Talking with you is like this:




Obviously you are smart enough to know that I can't take out search results that aren't exactly pertinent, right?

2 or 3 of those apps will do exactly what you want, and even if they are $40, I've seen "shareware" that expensive before. And, it's not like you need to have a "freeware" or "shareware" option in order to say something exists.




Start a poll then! ...I'd love to see the results.

I never said these utilities didn't exist...I just said they weren't free...go back a few posts and read. You'll be pleasantly surprised that 'reading' is key to 'understanding'.

If you want to repartition your HD without wiping everything that's on it, you'll have to drop some money on a utility. Then you also have to buy Windows XP. I personally (and others would agree here, especially the 'average user' type) think the expense and time for all of this to be above what most people would consider tolerable just to play some PC games.

The only sane thing I could suggest to people that really want to play PC games would be to buy the Macintel, wipe the HD with Disk Utility first thing, divide the HD into at least 2, reinstall Mac OS X, install Windows XP.

Those that don't do this as soon as possible will have to jump through hoops to get the unsupported Windows XP on their machine...will they bother? Some might, most won't.

If game developers tell Mac users to install an unsupported Windows XP onto their Mac to play their games, they'll likely get a big fat middle finger from most of us.

"Install Windows XP on your Macintel to run our game" "Install VirtualPC on your Macintel to run our game" "Install blah blah blah on your Macintel to run our game" are not correct responses. Some will do just that...but most will simply ignore the developers and carry on their business...all the while the dev will have lost a potential market. Unless the developers can assure that the games will run "as intended" on unsupported Windows XP installs or through virtualization software, why would anyone test their luck? Most will simply pirate the game because they won't be sure that the game will work and the devs will have for sure lost a potential market.

Speaking of pirating, the psychology behind developers telling Mac users to run Windows XP to play their game should also be taken into consideration. Even if the developer could assure us that the game will play 'as intended' on an unsupported Windows XP installation, I know some of us would pretty angry at the fact that the devs are telling us to do this or take a hike, and would simply pirate the game as some sort of revenge.

[The iMac Man]

God you are annoying....

You said SHAREWARE.... that means IT IS NOT FREE. Shareware and commercial products aren't really that different at all.

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally Posted by The iMac Man

God you are annoying....

You said SHAREWARE.... that means IT IS NOT FREE. Shareware and commercial products aren't really that different at all.

Uh...so how is that supposed to reinforce your point?

Both shareware and commercial apps are products YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR!!! Which means YOU HAVE TO GIVE MONEY! Which means NOBODY'S GOING TO BOTHER WITH THEM JUST TO REPARTITION A HD. One exception is that the shareware can be used for free...if you like the product, you have should/have to pay for it. Either way, THERE ARE NO FREE AND EASY SOLUTION TO PARTITIONING A HD ON-THE-FLY WITHOUT WIPING THE HD.

The caps are there to emphasize what you should read very carefully...since you've got a bit of trouble finding the key words/phrases.

[The iMac Man]

Apparently you need to read more carefully, because you said FREEWARE OR SHAREWARE.... you said nothing about it having to be free.

Plus, $40 to enable me to play thousands of games is a great deal.