[besson3c]

Anyway, I'm off the write my next thread "Ways that Windows bests OS X"...

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Well, I don't know about your idea of genuine *entertainment* but mine includes dancing girls. And beer.

How about girls dancing in beer?

I'm entertained by many things, I guess that's my problem... Just give me a cardboard box and some popping paper and I'm happy for a while.

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

*sigh*
Okay, I'm convinced. Linux sucks.

It wasn't Linux itself that convinced me, it was this thread pointing out arcane details, indicating that it must suck if such details really need pointing out.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Linux is also the envy of Microsoft, and to whatever population of the Mac base cares about OS X being a part of the culture of the machine rooms of big business.

Yeah, I'm sure those three dudes are mad jealous.

Seriously, even Apple doesn't much care about that stuff. Why would anybody else?

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Yeah, I'm sure those three dudes are mad jealous.

Seriously, even Apple doesn't much care about that stuff. Why would anybody else?

Who knows? People care about all sorts of things: some game, some language support, some support, some hardware, many people have their own little agenda and desires. Many don't care, this is true, but unlike many of these other things it can be argued that there is money to be had in high end IT stuff. So, while we can debate the best strategy or Apple, it's not like I'm some mad rambling dude that wants to convert back to OS 9 or something.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Anyway, I'm off the write my next thread "Ways that Windows bests OS X"...

You and shif.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Has anybody's mind ever been changed there?

Yes.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

it's not like I'm some mad rambling dude that wants to convert back to OS 9 or something.

Well, that dude was actually really entertaining and refreshingly different.

-t

[ghporter]

Interesting note: Linux runs on Macs. So the whole "why not invent a LinuxNN" argument, along with much of the other negativity is really inappropriate. Linux is THE grid computing OS, and if grid computing doesn't count as real work, I'd like to see what does.

But Doofy is right: this is NOT a Lounge subject, it's an Alternative OS subject. I will move this thread there. And we WILL have order and civility, or there will be infractions as numerous as the cute and cutting remarks posted in this thread so far.

[webraider]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

6) DVR: MythTV is cooler than the EyeTV stuff in just about every way that I can see. More video capture card support at cheaper prices, more robust programmable remote support for MythTV itself and helper applications such as VLC or MPlayer via LIRC, and great plugins like MythWeb or MythVideo. Granted, MythTV is imperfect, pretty complicated, etc. However, I like the fact that I have MPEG-2 streams of video that I can keep for as long as I want, can use as I want, and can offload or store on any storage device that I want, I like the fact that I don't have to pay any subscription fees for my sporadic TV watching (except for Schedules Direct, which is dirt cheap), and I like being able to keep a PC connected to my big TV which doubles as my MythTV and gaming setup.

Well.. this is quote from the FAQ from their website:

Does MythTV run on Mac OS X?
Yes. Both the frontend and backend run under Mac OS X. The Mac mini is a popular platform. In general, G5 and Intel-based Macs are capable of playing HDTV. On the backend, the Silicondust HDHomeRun and FireWire connected devices are supported.

Oh.. the first few points have already been rebutted.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by webraider 

Well.. this is quote from the FAQ from their website:

Does MythTV run on Mac OS X?
Yes. Both the frontend and backend run under Mac OS X. The Mac mini is a popular platform. In general, G5 and Intel-based Macs are capable of playing HDTV. On the backend, the Silicondust HDHomeRun and FireWire connected devices are supported.

Oh.. the first few points have already been rebutted.

Last I had checked only the Myth frontend was available, and I wasn't sure that there were plans to do the backend. However, like I said, there are still other components that need to be ported to provide a complete experience comparable to Linux, namely LIRC and drivers for more video capture cards. I'm sure one day this will happen, but like I said, Myth support in OS X is still fairly new.

[- - e r i k - -]

Excuse my ignorance, but what exactly does MythTV offer over EyeTV apart from a butt ugly interface and geeky installation?

[besson3c]

Erik: it sounds like you are more interested in having me defend my position rather than you genuinely being interested in learning, unless you normally ask questions that are as leading as this? However, hint: it's themeable: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Category:Themes

[- - e r i k - -]

No honestly. Because that's what I got out from the site and the screenshots.

I am more than happy to work a bit for the installation as long as I get tangible benefits over what I already have. Hence why I replaced Front Row with Plex.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

No honestly. Because that's what I got out from the site and the screenshots.

I am more than happy to work a bit for the installation as long as I get tangible benefits over what I already have. Hence why I replaced Front Row with Plex.

Fine, I'll bite.

First of all, as you can see from the URL above, it's themeable, so saying that it is ugly is sort of like saying that Wordpress is ugly - there are a ton of themes out there, the one I'm using is not listed on that page.

Some features of Myth, off the top of my head in no particular order (and yes I'm sure some of these features are available for EyeTV):

- web interface for scheduling and downloading recorded programs
- commercial skip
- automatic transcoding to smaller size video formats
- consistent controls for live TV and recorded programs
- collects video files too (DivX, XVid, mpeg-4, etc.) plays them through VLC or MPlayer, and looks up the video file metadata on IMDB
- plugins for weather, console gaming, and music, although I've never looked at this stuff
- remote control support for MythTV itself, as well as for helper applications (VLC, etc.) on Linux
- searchable TV guide (TV listings are stored in MySQL)
- recording prioritization, support for dual tuners if your card supports it, picture in picture for dual tuners
- very customizable, probably to a fault for most
- separation of backend and frontend so that you can have one backend running in the house, and several other frontends that have access to the same collection of recordings and videos
- MythTV client support for all major platforms including OS X. I can watch TV either on my Mac or off my Linux box which is connected to our main large TV set
- very intelligent about recording subscriptions
- DVD importing
- plugin that will allow you to burn TV recordings to DVD
- many other plugins, most of which I have not explored. There is one for home automation, VoIP, other stuff
- support for interfacing with remote applications, such as a remote control for your Mac, Growl notification, etc.

[besson3c]

Forgot to include the obvious, it plays DVDs as well.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

- web interface for scheduling and downloading recorded programs

Yes. Including remote scheduling from the iPhone with native app.

Originally Posted by besson3c 

- commercial skip

Yes, with EyeTVComSkip.

Originally Posted by besson3c 

- automatic transcoding to smaller size video formats

Yup, with presets for Apple devices / iTunes + automatic import into iTunes.

Originally Posted by besson3c 

- consistent controls for live TV and recorded programs

Not sure what this means, but I'll say that's a yes.

Originally Posted by besson3c 

- collects video files too (DivX, XVid, mpeg-4, etc.) plays them through VLC or MPlayer, and looks up the video file metadata on IMDB

This is what Plex does.

Originally Posted by besson3c 

- plugins for weather, console gaming, and music, although I've never looked at this stuff

Also Plex.

Originally Posted by besson3c 

- remote control support for MythTV itself, as well as for helper applications (VLC, etc.) on Linux

Yup, albeit to be fair this comes built in with OS X for other apps.

Originally Posted by besson3c 

- searchable TV guide (TV listings are stored in MySQL)

Yes, and much more.

Originally Posted by besson3c 

- recording prioritization, support for dual tuners if your card supports it, picture in picture for dual tuners

Check, check and check.

Originally Posted by besson3c 

- very customizable, probably to a fault for most

Indeed. Make the interface right first, themes are a horrible band aid and too much customisation confuses the user. Yes, even the technically inclined.

Originally Posted by besson3c 

- separation of backend and frontend so that you can have one backend running in the house, and several other frontends that have access to the same collection of recordings and videos

This could be useful in a server setup I'm sure.

Originally Posted by besson3c 

- MythTV client support for all major platforms including OS X. I can watch TV either on my Mac or off my Linux box which is connected to our main large TV set

Good for people with that kind of setup I suppose.

Originally Posted by besson3c 

- very intelligent about recording subscriptions

Not sure what this means either, but I've never had any problems with EyeTV here.

Originally Posted by besson3c 

- DVD importing

I guess if I could be bothered with this I could use the myriad of other software options that does this.

Originally Posted by besson3c 

- plugin that will allow you to burn TV recordings to DVD

Plugin? EyeTV has this built in.

Originally Posted by besson3c 

- many other plugins, most of which I have not explored. There is one for home automation, VoIP, other stuff

Sounds like any other XMBC solution then, including Plex

Originally Posted by besson3c 

- support for interfacing with remote applications, such as a remote control for your Mac, Growl notification, etc.

Not sure what I'd want this for

[besson3c]

Erik: how do Plex and EyeTV integrate together? They look like essentially different products?

[- - e r i k - -]

Plex launches EyeTV which when quit returns to Plex.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

Yup, albeit to be fair this comes built in with OS X for other apps.

There is a system wide API for remote controls? Any remote control, or just the Apple remote?

Indeed. Make the interface right first, themes are a horrible band aid and too much customisation confuses the user. Yes, even the technically inclined.

I agree, but actually the interface problems are with configuration and setup, and only because MythTV lacks focus being so open-ended in how it can be used, and with what equipment. The actual interface for operating stuff is fairly kid and wife friendly (for those wives that are not computer geeks, not to be sexist here), I know some families with kids and wives (one wife per family that get along with the interface fine.

One thing I forgot to add is that Myth supports parental controls, and with the theming you can strip out the menus you don't care about or don't want to access. You can also control this with what plug-ins you choose to install.

So, there is room for improvement with the interface, but the user/day-to-day part of it is not as bad as you might think.

This could be useful in a server setup I'm sure.
Good for people with that kind of setup I suppose.

It's a great design in this respect. The backend doesn't have to be thought of as a server, just a machine that is being used as a backend (as has been pointed out to me, the backend now builds on OS X). The backend and frontend can be the same machine.

A former colleague of mine decided to ditch his DVD collection and replace it with video files since he was sick of his DVDs being lost and scratched up by his four kids. Now, the kids have a browseable collection and can watch stuff in their play area while he watches something else.

Not sure what this means either, but I've never had any problems with EyeTV here.

If you want to record The Office every week, you can setup a subscription (TiVo does this too, I believe), and it will not bother recording on weeks that the show is canceled, and will adjust the recording schedule when the time the program airs changes or the length of the program changes (every once in a while there will be hour long episodes). It's very normalized databasey in this respect.

Not sure what I'd want this for

It's not very useful if the backend and frontend have to be the same machine, but if this isn't the case this allows for various frontends to interface with the backend. This could be the standard client, or any other client that somebody else has written. It could also be a hook in an application. It allows for remote scripting.

Plex looks pretty cool, I'll have to check it out sometime!

[Remlyor]

Think you were originally talking about Linux beating OSX, but the biggest problem this faces is the consumer base. Working in a Apple Reseller store, I face so many customers whom struggle with OSX, and in my past also with Windows (worked for CompUSA). If even for a moment you think that the majority of consumers will understand or even bother with Linux, you're fooling your self. Why is OSX kickin Linux's hiney, pretty obvious, support and mainstream apps for one. Now, if consumers had to install anything in linux they'd have a heart attack on the spot, followed by them coming into where ever they got it and asking a billion questions or asking to be helped directly with it. Last I saw, they're are no stores with Linux support people running it, and as far as retail anything for Linux, just doesn't happen. Linux is a great developers platform, not a consumer OS.

[besson3c]

Remlyor: if you are addressing me, I've never said anything to the contrary.

[mattyb]

Linux scratched my itch for a few years, then I found OS X and got a massage instead.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

There is a system wide API for remote controls? Any remote control, or just the Apple remote?

For the Apple remote. For other remotes you have to use Remote Buddy (Although Plex supports other remotes like the Harmony built in)

Originally Posted by besson3c 

If you want to record The Office every week, you can setup a subscription (TiVo does this too, I believe), and it will not bother recording on weeks that the show is canceled, and will adjust the recording schedule when the time the program airs changes or the length of the program changes (every once in a while there will be hour long episodes).

Ah yes. This is the same with EyeTV + your EPG (IceTV in my case) of course.

Yes, you should definitely check out Plex. It seems to be much the same of what the non-live TV parts of MythTV tries to be (ie. the media centre parts), but aspiring to be as "Apple" as they can about it. The first thing they did was to throw out or hide much of the customisability.

It's still an unwieldy task to make a media centre user friendly from setup to daily use, but they are getting there.

[Maflynn]

I've stayed out of this thread because I really don't care how technically superior linux may or may not be compared to OSX. For me OSX does what I want it to, it has all of the software I need and I don't have to monkey with the OS too much.

Linux, has less software available, at least with what I want to use. I have to monkey with it more then OSX to get it the way I'd want it and generally its not as elegant then OSX. bottom line is you use the tool that best serves your needs. For some Linux is the answer for others, while OSX is good for most mac users.

[zaghahzag]

if linux cost money, nobody on earth would ever use it.

Its a great OS, as long as your hardware is compatible and its great as long as you know linux, from years of using linux or another unix. If you don't and you're just trying to figure out why the hell your stupid video card won't change resolutions and it takes you three days of wasted effort, then well, linux isn't for you.

As for the other stuff: there is certainly software that is missing on the Mac. That's a given and has been for a long time. If linux somehow got a huge user base and big commercial packages got written for it, then maybe it would have a chance. As it is, it's awesome b/c its free. I use it all the time, but like the other guy said, for serious work, i'll use OSX.